I’m not a cunt, I’m a decent enough person, even tho I dont believe in Heaven or Hell, I still try to live my life so that I wont go to hell, but if I go to hell because I’ve had pre marital sex imma be pissed. I almost died in a house fire because I ran in many times to try and save people (thankfully none was inside)
Sin is sin, friend, no matter the magnitude, any sin is a separation between us and God. We can (and should!) try as hard as we can to be good, but we're only human and inevitably even the best of us fuck up.
None of us can earn access to Heaven, but you don't need to, that access is a gift that's freely offered to you. All you need to do to start is to accept that gift.
My question is if one can get into heaven by being a good person but still dont follow the rules to 100%? It’s not like sex outside marriage is harming between two consentual adults
You and I are not good. We have a corrupt nature.
We desire things of this earth and no good comes from that.
Nobody has ever followed the rules 100% except Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the law and sacrificed his life so that God who is perfectly just and demands the price be paid for sin, would allow Jesus' blood to be the payment for our sin.
I’m Catholic. The Church teaches it is indeed possible to make it to heaven in circumstances similar to what you’ve described (and damn good job btw). But I’ll tell you that the concern you’re feeling is most likely God telling you it’s time to have faith in Him.
But again i don’t want you to think I’m shoving this down your throat.
Sorry to burst your bubble. If you actually ready the Bible, you wouldn't think that. Sorry buddy, no matter how good you are, you'll never be good enough.
Amen. Idolatry to think otherwise. It is like saying you have the power that is God's alone. This thought process how the snake got Eve to eat the fruit.
nah man its all good, Im the one asking. I just want to know the rules, some say Ill go to hell no matter what I do as long as I dont belive in God, some say I’ll go to hell due to sleeping around
At the end of the day, when the lights go out, only God knows the final judgment of a person. The graces he bestows upon us via his church, and the teachings he provides to help us be virtuous, are all powerful aids that we need to choose God in all things and to resist the temptation to sin, to resist the temptation to turn away from goodness.
Sacrificing yourself to save others from fire is no simple or meaningless thing. And even the saints of the catholic faith were at one time sinners. It’s said that a saint is merely a sinner who kept trying to be better, who kept confessing and kept pursuing God.
At the end of the day, no one can make it to Heaven through their own merit. No one can "earn" Heaven. None of us are worthy. We need that mercy of the Lord to hope to ever be in His presence.
That being said, who are we put limits on the mercy of God? Billions of people lived and died before Christ. Are we to assume they're all in Hell right now?
But the thing is I cant go and repent that I’ve been fucking around because I do not regret those actions. And if I do start regretting them because of God, then is it even real? I’d only apologize for it because I want to go to heaven and not because I’m actually sorry?
Also if you dont mind me asking, Christians mostly do Christian stuff because they dont want to go to hell (no its not the sole reason of their virtue, but the thought is always lingering ‘if I do this I will go to hell’), so is that actually virtue then? The thought of going to hell is on their mind (maybe far back in the mind) when making the decision.
My wife wanted me to tell you that she and I were both atheists about 12 years ago. We converted to theists after reading philosophy, and converted to Catholicism after studying the various religions. She thought it might help to be more personable lol. Take care
I’m atheist, as in I just dont believe God(s) exist. I do however see good morality in many religions and think religion is good (when it’s practiced freely and not forced), and live by many of the rules. I believe what I can see, I’m entirely logic driven (to a detrimental point) which is why I couldnt start believing in God even if I wanted to, and I’m not gonna convert to anything because that would be distespectful to the religion in my opinion
You cannot get to heaven by any of your own works. You are sinful by nature, Jesus flat out tells you none get to the Father but through him. The only way to get to heaven is tobrepent of your sins, and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Adding any other stipulations to this is Idolatry.
No, that would not be repentance. We sin but we strive to be better because when we sin we truly feel deep in our hearts that we were not glorifying God by our actions and it hurts. We ask God to forgive us and to please help us be better.
You ever read (or hear of) the Screwtape Letters C.S. Lewis? The "You're a good person" is one of the 3 most poisonous lies that one can tell someone if you are trying to get them into Hell. If you have read them, correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3 lies are 1) Tell them there is no God (e.g. Teaching evolution), 2) Tell them they have plenty of time left (the Bible teaches that tomorrow is not guaranteed), and 3) Tell them they are a good person (so they think God will let them into heaven because they are good or due to their good deeds; the Bible teaches that no one enters into Heaven except through Jesus).
I’m just comparing my actions to other peoples actions and try look objectively on them, and to me I seem like a good person (well compared to all the shit ones atleast), but I always think to myself I need to get better, no one is at their 100% power level, you can always improve
It's not showing me which of my comments you're replying to so I don't know what you're referencing. You sound sure of yourself though so that must be nice.
No, trying to have a conversation on the topic. Me repenting has no use since I dont have any regrets about sleeping with people outside marriage, it makes no sense to me that it should be forbidden if it’s between two consenting adults
Shhhh, you're being "witnessed" to! They think they're doing right by God by telling you that you're going to burn eternally for not telling God you're sorry for consensually getting your rocks off. "You're making excuses. Stop being a stupid fucking asshole and tell God you're sorry. God is love, you stupid motherfucker. Now accept it or burn forever in the lake of fire."
This is what turns non-believers off to Christianity/Catholicism. We preach forgiveness and love and then tell a gay guy in the congregation he has to abstain from homosexual relationships forever to be accepted by God and our church. (and he did, or he tried to, anyway, because he wanted to be accepted and loved so bad.) We tell you that God wants you to be happy while every Sunday using our pulpit to make everybody feel bad for watching R-rated movies, listening to "unannointed" music (including Christian music that isn't contemporary worship music) and GOD FORBID having a glass of wine at dinner (The "wine" they drank in the Bible was, supposedly, just grape juice. Right) while embezzling money from the church. Make sure we talk about tithing for 45 minutes a week, though. We embrace being "Slain" in the spirit, and the spiritual gifts that come with them, namely speaking in tongues, and then look down on people who aren't anointed enough to discover their "prayer language." We invite speakers in to our church who think they're so holy, they actually pray over a woman in a wheel chair and lift her out of it and order her to walk in front of the entire congregation and then watch her flop pathetically to the floor like a rag doll. We invite "prophets" who claim God tells them what will happen to us (I was told I'd become a great musician. There isn't a musical bone in my body) and then we later find out is a fraud (obviously,)
These are all actual things I've experienced at church. These are the kinds of things that encouraged the left to label us as hateful bigots. Now, I'm sure there are plenty of churches out there that AREN'T full of insane, judgmental people or run by corrupt greedy assholes. My point is, Christianity the faith is great, Christianity the lifestyle is kind of shit.
It's any wonder I'm not agnostic, but I'm still a Christian, I still hold the faith close, I just don't trust other Christians, and for shit like this. They'll go out of their way to tell you that you're living in sin and to just "repent" and that's that. They don't talk too much about repenting for being judgmental, or fake, or greedy (like my aforementioned pastor who owned a million dollar house and several motorcycles in addition to family vehicles while telling us a single drink of wine is sinful and evil and to make sure we're "giving enough to God" every Sunday.) They talk about how God will spit out the Luke-warm followers and warp that scripture to imply God's going to send you to hell for not being CHRISTIAN ENOUGH.
They tell you to rely on your church for fellowship and support and then blow you off with a simple "I'll keep you in my prayers" when you come to them in a time of emotional family crisis, while limiting their social interactions to a click of certain families within the church (who all speak tongues and, curiously, their tongue-speaking is always the exact same gibberish phrases over and over again.)
And let's not forget the super churches, which ALSO push tithing out the ass. Thankfully, you get the comfiest seat on the planet as you watch a giant movie theater screen streaming a remote pastor from some other location, and you can pick up an on-campus Starbucks before or after the sermon!
I hope you find God, but if you don't, I have a feeling God's going to love you no matter what, because He knows what's in your heart. God is love, and not the manufactured, backward-ass gotcha "love" they try to teach at some of these churches. "God loves you and he forgives you! But you have to constantly apologize to God for sins you don't even understand." Beg and grovel, that's what God wants. Christians expect you to jump for joy because you don't have to make burnt offerings anymore.
Wow, sorry, I had a lot to get off my chest. TLDR: You won't go to hell for having premarital, consensual sex. Even if you don't think there's anything wrong with it.
I’m not a cunt, I’m a decent enough person, even tho I dont believe in Heaven or Hell, I still try to live my life so that I wont go to hell, but if I go to hell because I’ve had pre marital sex imma be pissed. I almost died in a house fire because I ran in many times to try and save people (thankfully none was inside)
Sin is sin, friend, no matter the magnitude, any sin is a separation between us and God. We can (and should!) try as hard as we can to be good, but we're only human and inevitably even the best of us fuck up.
None of us can earn access to Heaven, but you don't need to, that access is a gift that's freely offered to you. All you need to do to start is to accept that gift.
My question is if one can get into heaven by being a good person but still dont follow the rules to 100%? It’s not like sex outside marriage is harming between two consentual adults
Being good enough and doing it entirely on our own isn't something humans are capable of, no.
You and I are not good. We have a corrupt nature. We desire things of this earth and no good comes from that.
Nobody has ever followed the rules 100% except Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the law and sacrificed his life so that God who is perfectly just and demands the price be paid for sin, would allow Jesus' blood to be the payment for our sin.
Or not believe in it in the first place. Anyway, go Trump.
I’m Catholic. The Church teaches it is indeed possible to make it to heaven in circumstances similar to what you’ve described (and damn good job btw). But I’ll tell you that the concern you’re feeling is most likely God telling you it’s time to have faith in Him.
But again i don’t want you to think I’m shoving this down your throat.
Sorry to burst your bubble. If you actually ready the Bible, you wouldn't think that. Sorry buddy, no matter how good you are, you'll never be good enough.
This is why it's important to have a personal relationship with the Lord. You cannot possibly live up to all the rules of the Bible. Trust in Jesus.
Amen. Idolatry to think otherwise. It is like saying you have the power that is God's alone. This thought process how the snake got Eve to eat the fruit.
“If I actually read the Bible”
How often has this method of debate worked for you?
How often does being condescending workout for you? God bless, buddy.
nah man its all good, Im the one asking. I just want to know the rules, some say Ill go to hell no matter what I do as long as I dont belive in God, some say I’ll go to hell due to sleeping around
At the end of the day, when the lights go out, only God knows the final judgment of a person. The graces he bestows upon us via his church, and the teachings he provides to help us be virtuous, are all powerful aids that we need to choose God in all things and to resist the temptation to sin, to resist the temptation to turn away from goodness.
Sacrificing yourself to save others from fire is no simple or meaningless thing. And even the saints of the catholic faith were at one time sinners. It’s said that a saint is merely a sinner who kept trying to be better, who kept confessing and kept pursuing God.
Preach, Dialectic.
At the end of the day, no one can make it to Heaven through their own merit. No one can "earn" Heaven. None of us are worthy. We need that mercy of the Lord to hope to ever be in His presence.
That being said, who are we put limits on the mercy of God? Billions of people lived and died before Christ. Are we to assume they're all in Hell right now?
All good things come from Christ!
But the thing is I cant go and repent that I’ve been fucking around because I do not regret those actions. And if I do start regretting them because of God, then is it even real? I’d only apologize for it because I want to go to heaven and not because I’m actually sorry?
Also if you dont mind me asking, Christians mostly do Christian stuff because they dont want to go to hell (no its not the sole reason of their virtue, but the thought is always lingering ‘if I do this I will go to hell’), so is that actually virtue then? The thought of going to hell is on their mind (maybe far back in the mind) when making the decision.
My wife wanted me to tell you that she and I were both atheists about 12 years ago. We converted to theists after reading philosophy, and converted to Catholicism after studying the various religions. She thought it might help to be more personable lol. Take care
I’m atheist, as in I just dont believe God(s) exist. I do however see good morality in many religions and think religion is good (when it’s practiced freely and not forced), and live by many of the rules. I believe what I can see, I’m entirely logic driven (to a detrimental point) which is why I couldnt start believing in God even if I wanted to, and I’m not gonna convert to anything because that would be distespectful to the religion in my opinion
You cannot get to heaven by any of your own works. You are sinful by nature, Jesus flat out tells you none get to the Father but through him. The only way to get to heaven is tobrepent of your sins, and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Adding any other stipulations to this is Idolatry.
Sweet :D
Sure you can do anything as a Christian, just accept Jesus and hand over $20 bucks! Amirite? Yea!
That’s a neat straw man.
No, that would not be repentance. We sin but we strive to be better because when we sin we truly feel deep in our hearts that we were not glorifying God by our actions and it hurts. We ask God to forgive us and to please help us be better.
You ever read (or hear of) the Screwtape Letters C.S. Lewis? The "You're a good person" is one of the 3 most poisonous lies that one can tell someone if you are trying to get them into Hell. If you have read them, correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3 lies are 1) Tell them there is no God (e.g. Teaching evolution), 2) Tell them they have plenty of time left (the Bible teaches that tomorrow is not guaranteed), and 3) Tell them they are a good person (so they think God will let them into heaven because they are good or due to their good deeds; the Bible teaches that no one enters into Heaven except through Jesus).
I’m just comparing my actions to other peoples actions and try look objectively on them, and to me I seem like a good person (well compared to all the shit ones atleast), but I always think to myself I need to get better, no one is at their 100% power level, you can always improve
C.S. Lewis. Which book is his in the Bible?
You gonna tell me what I said that's incorrect or you gonna keep asking loaded questions that you think you know the answer to?
It's not showing me which of my comments you're replying to so I don't know what you're referencing. You sound sure of yourself though so that must be nice.
You’re making excuses and rationalizing repent and be forgiven.
No, trying to have a conversation on the topic. Me repenting has no use since I dont have any regrets about sleeping with people outside marriage, it makes no sense to me that it should be forbidden if it’s between two consenting adults
Shhhh, you're being "witnessed" to! They think they're doing right by God by telling you that you're going to burn eternally for not telling God you're sorry for consensually getting your rocks off. "You're making excuses. Stop being a stupid fucking asshole and tell God you're sorry. God is love, you stupid motherfucker. Now accept it or burn forever in the lake of fire."
This is what turns non-believers off to Christianity/Catholicism. We preach forgiveness and love and then tell a gay guy in the congregation he has to abstain from homosexual relationships forever to be accepted by God and our church. (and he did, or he tried to, anyway, because he wanted to be accepted and loved so bad.) We tell you that God wants you to be happy while every Sunday using our pulpit to make everybody feel bad for watching R-rated movies, listening to "unannointed" music (including Christian music that isn't contemporary worship music) and GOD FORBID having a glass of wine at dinner (The "wine" they drank in the Bible was, supposedly, just grape juice. Right) while embezzling money from the church. Make sure we talk about tithing for 45 minutes a week, though. We embrace being "Slain" in the spirit, and the spiritual gifts that come with them, namely speaking in tongues, and then look down on people who aren't anointed enough to discover their "prayer language." We invite speakers in to our church who think they're so holy, they actually pray over a woman in a wheel chair and lift her out of it and order her to walk in front of the entire congregation and then watch her flop pathetically to the floor like a rag doll. We invite "prophets" who claim God tells them what will happen to us (I was told I'd become a great musician. There isn't a musical bone in my body) and then we later find out is a fraud (obviously,)
These are all actual things I've experienced at church. These are the kinds of things that encouraged the left to label us as hateful bigots. Now, I'm sure there are plenty of churches out there that AREN'T full of insane, judgmental people or run by corrupt greedy assholes. My point is, Christianity the faith is great, Christianity the lifestyle is kind of shit.
It's any wonder I'm not agnostic, but I'm still a Christian, I still hold the faith close, I just don't trust other Christians, and for shit like this. They'll go out of their way to tell you that you're living in sin and to just "repent" and that's that. They don't talk too much about repenting for being judgmental, or fake, or greedy (like my aforementioned pastor who owned a million dollar house and several motorcycles in addition to family vehicles while telling us a single drink of wine is sinful and evil and to make sure we're "giving enough to God" every Sunday.) They talk about how God will spit out the Luke-warm followers and warp that scripture to imply God's going to send you to hell for not being CHRISTIAN ENOUGH.
They tell you to rely on your church for fellowship and support and then blow you off with a simple "I'll keep you in my prayers" when you come to them in a time of emotional family crisis, while limiting their social interactions to a click of certain families within the church (who all speak tongues and, curiously, their tongue-speaking is always the exact same gibberish phrases over and over again.)
And let's not forget the super churches, which ALSO push tithing out the ass. Thankfully, you get the comfiest seat on the planet as you watch a giant movie theater screen streaming a remote pastor from some other location, and you can pick up an on-campus Starbucks before or after the sermon!
I hope you find God, but if you don't, I have a feeling God's going to love you no matter what, because He knows what's in your heart. God is love, and not the manufactured, backward-ass gotcha "love" they try to teach at some of these churches. "God loves you and he forgives you! But you have to constantly apologize to God for sins you don't even understand." Beg and grovel, that's what God wants. Christians expect you to jump for joy because you don't have to make burnt offerings anymore.
Wow, sorry, I had a lot to get off my chest. TLDR: You won't go to hell for having premarital, consensual sex. Even if you don't think there's anything wrong with it.
TRUMP 2020!
nice thoughts, thanks alot!