I’m Catholic. The Church teaches it is indeed possible to make it to heaven in circumstances similar to what you’ve described (and damn good job btw). But I’ll tell you that the concern you’re feeling is most likely God telling you it’s time to have faith in Him.
But again i don’t want you to think I’m shoving this down your throat.
Sorry to burst your bubble. If you actually ready the Bible, you wouldn't think that. Sorry buddy, no matter how good you are, you'll never be good enough.
Amen. Idolatry to think otherwise. It is like saying you have the power that is God's alone. This thought process how the snake got Eve to eat the fruit.
nah man its all good, Im the one asking. I just want to know the rules, some say Ill go to hell no matter what I do as long as I dont belive in God, some say I’ll go to hell due to sleeping around
At the end of the day, when the lights go out, only God knows the final judgment of a person. The graces he bestows upon us via his church, and the teachings he provides to help us be virtuous, are all powerful aids that we need to choose God in all things and to resist the temptation to sin, to resist the temptation to turn away from goodness.
Sacrificing yourself to save others from fire is no simple or meaningless thing. And even the saints of the catholic faith were at one time sinners. It’s said that a saint is merely a sinner who kept trying to be better, who kept confessing and kept pursuing God.
At the end of the day, no one can make it to Heaven through their own merit. No one can "earn" Heaven. None of us are worthy. We need that mercy of the Lord to hope to ever be in His presence.
That being said, who are we put limits on the mercy of God? Billions of people lived and died before Christ. Are we to assume they're all in Hell right now?
But the thing is I cant go and repent that I’ve been fucking around because I do not regret those actions. And if I do start regretting them because of God, then is it even real? I’d only apologize for it because I want to go to heaven and not because I’m actually sorry?
Also if you dont mind me asking, Christians mostly do Christian stuff because they dont want to go to hell (no its not the sole reason of their virtue, but the thought is always lingering ‘if I do this I will go to hell’), so is that actually virtue then? The thought of going to hell is on their mind (maybe far back in the mind) when making the decision.
I’m not deflecting but I can’t answer for “all Christians.” I can reasonably assume there’s a good amount of Christians that are primarily afraid of hell and choose God this way. This wouldn’t be considered the best way to live out your faith, but it is better than nothing. You can choose to avoid theft by fearing prison, or you can avoid theft by loving and respecting the people who own the items. Both prevent you from committing the sin, but one is of a higher quality and with a stronger foundation to help you with future temptations. I assume many will retain a bit of “oh I don’t want to go to hell for that” in their mind. One might have that thought if they catch themselves looking too much at a good looking girl, or you might take the better road and love her dignity as a person so you don’t want to reduce her to mere self entertaining pleasure. Consequences for failure vs love of the good.
And you’re absolutely right, you have to believe those were sins to actually repent. When I ask someone to repent, it’s not just to say the words but to believe them. So for you, in theory, it would take an honest investigation into (for example) the catholic faith to determine if it seems true. Maybe look into apologists (defenders of the faith) Trent horn or Jimmy Akin.
But in your current state of mind and understanding, those acts of sex outside of wedlock may not be considered grave sin that would preclude you from heaven. You didn’t have full knowledge of the acts. They would still be sinful but it’s possible your culpability in them would be less.
Apologizing for potential sin because you want to go to heaven is valid like I said previously, one would just hope that it’s the beginning of a faith that leads you to truly loving God and wanting to be “good for goodness sake.”
Being a parent really helps you understand these conundrums, even if you can’t always communicate them well (I struggle keeping it clear). No matter your child’s faults, no matter if you failed them or if they’ve grown up and failed themselves, you love them. You want the best for them. You want to sacrifice for them.
Similarly, your desire to sacrifice yourself for people you thought were in a burning building is an example of loving someone unconditionally. You didn’t need recognition after the fact, and you didn’t need a “Good Samaritan law” telling you you had help them. It was unconditional love of the helpless that drove you, or so it would seem. And if you gave your life in exchange for someone else I’m sure this would please God who is all Good. But if you had saved them because you were afraid of jail for failing to comply with a Good Samaritan law, your actions would still be heroic and good, but I think we’d agree that it’s better to choose to save them out of love for their well being rather than fear of jail.
And if you can believe that goodness should be pursued for its own end, and not for a reward like heaven, then I think you are on your way to understanding that a sex for merely mutual gratification is a problem as opposed to mutual gratification in the full meaning of its purpose which is a unitive act of potential life creation. But I realize that’s a big topic. I’m just trying to connect all these dots quickly for you.
This thread is beating around the bush on Justification. An issue that has split the Church for 500 years. I for one believe the human will is bound and depraved apart from Christ.
My wife wanted me to tell you that she and I were both atheists about 12 years ago. We converted to theists after reading philosophy, and converted to Catholicism after studying the various religions. She thought it might help to be more personable lol. Take care
I’m atheist, as in I just dont believe God(s) exist. I do however see good morality in many religions and think religion is good (when it’s practiced freely and not forced), and live by many of the rules. I believe what I can see, I’m entirely logic driven (to a detrimental point) which is why I couldnt start believing in God even if I wanted to, and I’m not gonna convert to anything because that would be distespectful to the religion in my opinion
You sound similar to myself and my wife. We came to faith via logic and reason. It wasn’t preaching, it was philosophy that brought us to theism. Reason leads to faith, it seems to me.
Empiricism can only get you so far, and then you start to find things it can’t answer.
You cannot get to heaven by any of your own works. You are sinful by nature, Jesus flat out tells you none get to the Father but through him. The only way to get to heaven is tobrepent of your sins, and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Adding any other stipulations to this is Idolatry.
No, that would not be repentance. We sin but we strive to be better because when we sin we truly feel deep in our hearts that we were not glorifying God by our actions and it hurts. We ask God to forgive us and to please help us be better.
I’m Catholic. The Church teaches it is indeed possible to make it to heaven in circumstances similar to what you’ve described (and damn good job btw). But I’ll tell you that the concern you’re feeling is most likely God telling you it’s time to have faith in Him.
But again i don’t want you to think I’m shoving this down your throat.
Sorry to burst your bubble. If you actually ready the Bible, you wouldn't think that. Sorry buddy, no matter how good you are, you'll never be good enough.
This is why it's important to have a personal relationship with the Lord. You cannot possibly live up to all the rules of the Bible. Trust in Jesus.
Amen. Idolatry to think otherwise. It is like saying you have the power that is God's alone. This thought process how the snake got Eve to eat the fruit.
“If I actually read the Bible”
How often has this method of debate worked for you?
How often does being condescending workout for you? God bless, buddy.
nah man its all good, Im the one asking. I just want to know the rules, some say Ill go to hell no matter what I do as long as I dont belive in God, some say I’ll go to hell due to sleeping around
At the end of the day, when the lights go out, only God knows the final judgment of a person. The graces he bestows upon us via his church, and the teachings he provides to help us be virtuous, are all powerful aids that we need to choose God in all things and to resist the temptation to sin, to resist the temptation to turn away from goodness.
Sacrificing yourself to save others from fire is no simple or meaningless thing. And even the saints of the catholic faith were at one time sinners. It’s said that a saint is merely a sinner who kept trying to be better, who kept confessing and kept pursuing God.
Preach, Dialectic.
At the end of the day, no one can make it to Heaven through their own merit. No one can "earn" Heaven. None of us are worthy. We need that mercy of the Lord to hope to ever be in His presence.
That being said, who are we put limits on the mercy of God? Billions of people lived and died before Christ. Are we to assume they're all in Hell right now?
All good things come from Christ!
Amen
No, those that have not heard the Word are not judged by the same standards as those who have heard and turned away.
But the thing is I cant go and repent that I’ve been fucking around because I do not regret those actions. And if I do start regretting them because of God, then is it even real? I’d only apologize for it because I want to go to heaven and not because I’m actually sorry?
Also if you dont mind me asking, Christians mostly do Christian stuff because they dont want to go to hell (no its not the sole reason of their virtue, but the thought is always lingering ‘if I do this I will go to hell’), so is that actually virtue then? The thought of going to hell is on their mind (maybe far back in the mind) when making the decision.
I’m not deflecting but I can’t answer for “all Christians.” I can reasonably assume there’s a good amount of Christians that are primarily afraid of hell and choose God this way. This wouldn’t be considered the best way to live out your faith, but it is better than nothing. You can choose to avoid theft by fearing prison, or you can avoid theft by loving and respecting the people who own the items. Both prevent you from committing the sin, but one is of a higher quality and with a stronger foundation to help you with future temptations. I assume many will retain a bit of “oh I don’t want to go to hell for that” in their mind. One might have that thought if they catch themselves looking too much at a good looking girl, or you might take the better road and love her dignity as a person so you don’t want to reduce her to mere self entertaining pleasure. Consequences for failure vs love of the good.
And you’re absolutely right, you have to believe those were sins to actually repent. When I ask someone to repent, it’s not just to say the words but to believe them. So for you, in theory, it would take an honest investigation into (for example) the catholic faith to determine if it seems true. Maybe look into apologists (defenders of the faith) Trent horn or Jimmy Akin.
But in your current state of mind and understanding, those acts of sex outside of wedlock may not be considered grave sin that would preclude you from heaven. You didn’t have full knowledge of the acts. They would still be sinful but it’s possible your culpability in them would be less.
Apologizing for potential sin because you want to go to heaven is valid like I said previously, one would just hope that it’s the beginning of a faith that leads you to truly loving God and wanting to be “good for goodness sake.”
Being a parent really helps you understand these conundrums, even if you can’t always communicate them well (I struggle keeping it clear). No matter your child’s faults, no matter if you failed them or if they’ve grown up and failed themselves, you love them. You want the best for them. You want to sacrifice for them.
Similarly, your desire to sacrifice yourself for people you thought were in a burning building is an example of loving someone unconditionally. You didn’t need recognition after the fact, and you didn’t need a “Good Samaritan law” telling you you had help them. It was unconditional love of the helpless that drove you, or so it would seem. And if you gave your life in exchange for someone else I’m sure this would please God who is all Good. But if you had saved them because you were afraid of jail for failing to comply with a Good Samaritan law, your actions would still be heroic and good, but I think we’d agree that it’s better to choose to save them out of love for their well being rather than fear of jail.
And if you can believe that goodness should be pursued for its own end, and not for a reward like heaven, then I think you are on your way to understanding that a sex for merely mutual gratification is a problem as opposed to mutual gratification in the full meaning of its purpose which is a unitive act of potential life creation. But I realize that’s a big topic. I’m just trying to connect all these dots quickly for you.
This thread is beating around the bush on Justification. An issue that has split the Church for 500 years. I for one believe the human will is bound and depraved apart from Christ.
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/the-bondage-of-the-will-the-sovereignty-of-grace-and-the-glory-of-god
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Bondage_of_the_Will
My wife wanted me to tell you that she and I were both atheists about 12 years ago. We converted to theists after reading philosophy, and converted to Catholicism after studying the various religions. She thought it might help to be more personable lol. Take care
I’m atheist, as in I just dont believe God(s) exist. I do however see good morality in many religions and think religion is good (when it’s practiced freely and not forced), and live by many of the rules. I believe what I can see, I’m entirely logic driven (to a detrimental point) which is why I couldnt start believing in God even if I wanted to, and I’m not gonna convert to anything because that would be distespectful to the religion in my opinion
You sound similar to myself and my wife. We came to faith via logic and reason. It wasn’t preaching, it was philosophy that brought us to theism. Reason leads to faith, it seems to me.
Empiricism can only get you so far, and then you start to find things it can’t answer.
You cannot get to heaven by any of your own works. You are sinful by nature, Jesus flat out tells you none get to the Father but through him. The only way to get to heaven is tobrepent of your sins, and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Adding any other stipulations to this is Idolatry.
Sweet :D
Sure you can do anything as a Christian, just accept Jesus and hand over $20 bucks! Amirite? Yea!
That’s a neat straw man.
No, that would not be repentance. We sin but we strive to be better because when we sin we truly feel deep in our hearts that we were not glorifying God by our actions and it hurts. We ask God to forgive us and to please help us be better.