I think its ok in three circumstances. 1. Rape 2. Incest 3. Mother has a high chance to die when giving birth.
Other than that, you knew the consequences of sex. Birth control is widely available and inexpensive, dont end an innocent and pure life because you're selfish and couldn't say no to getting nutted in.
Full on outlaw imo is unnecessary and circumstance needs to be considereded with something like this. Its absolutely awful to make someone go through giving birth to their rapists child or force someone to face their death.
This is basically it. Some might argue for the innocent babies life in a couple of these cases too, but most Trump supporters would go for what you said.
I would also add (personally) 4. If the life of the baby is also in danger of dying, or for lack of better words, being born a severe vegetable.
Basically for me, bottom line is if using abortion as a form of contraception, hard nope.
Abortion is a really difficult subject to make laws around, because there is a third party (the father). Regardless of the fact that the woman is carrying the child, the father should have a say in how things are handled. Without him, there would be no pregnancy to begin with. Both the mother and father are equally as responsible.
This is an illogical view. Rape is a horrible thing, but a baby is still a human life - that is an immutable fact. That baby is a unique soul, never to be recreated. He/she has inalienable rights - including to life. To say that the circumstance of conception changes the definition of what human life is - that is a dangerous and slippery slope. A baby is wanted, therefor deserves life, a baby is not wanted, the baby is a clump of cells. Illogical. If rape is a reason, then any reason to not want a baby is also sufficient. Are you the thought police here to read the minds Of women and determine if their reason is worthy?
As for the life of the mother, there are very few instances where a mother’s health is in jeopardy where a baby is not viable. There are in fact zero reasons to abort in the third trimester - zero. The third trimester, induced delivery is possible in all circumstances. So while in principle, I agree on this carve out, it should be well understood that this should be an exceedingly rare occurrence.
You are jumping in as though what SCOTUS included in their ruling in Roe v Wade had already happened: that personhood was defined. It never has been. They wrote that this was THE way to undermine their ruling.
Do you think part of the anti-abortion driver is a fear that women will suddenly become insufferable thots if they can make such decisions easily? (Not being snarky, but I could imagine someone very traditional thinking that way)
I do believe that full on easy access to abortions with zero consequences does contribute to young naive women being more promiscuous than they normally would be. A lot of young women are insufferable thots now by a much higher margin then they ever have been and i think a lack of consequence is a major contribution to that. Along with the defamation and disappearance of religion and family values in our everyday lives(im not religious but i believe it has its place and is a damn good guidline for a healthy moral driven society).
I see, I can understand that. Maybe I’m biased because I’ve been (as a man) in a situation where I messed up and things could’ve ended badly if abortion wasn’t on the table (but never had).
Abortion was legalized at the Federal level by a unilateral Supreme Court decision based on a woman who was told to lie that she had become pregnant because of a rape.
That Supreme Court decision was passed in 1973. Probably (by your tone of speech) far longer than you've been alive.
Reversing Roe vs. Wade does not render abortion automatically illegal. It returns jurisdiction (authority) over abortion laws to the individual states. And different states have different laws, about how late in a pregnancy, an abortion may be obtained; or whether in the case of a minor (under 18), the girl's parents must be notified or consent (abortion is an invasive medical procedure, the same restrictions apply to something as ordinary as piercing ears).
What you don't seem to realize, is that young American women are ALREADY insufferable thots; not only because of abortion, but a dozen other legal practices which combine to give them almost complete freedom from responsibility for their actions, in anything from getting drunk in college and sleeping with a guy, to forcing a man to pay for child support even if he isn't the father, to "no-fault" divorce.
Full Disclosure: I'm old enough to have been around before any of these laws were in effect. I remember the sweeping promises that abortion on demand would eliminate child abuse ("every child a wanted child") -- but in fact the opposite has happened.
For that matter, the rates of venereal diseases ("sexually transmitted diseases") has skyrocketed along with the divorce rate: multiple sexual partners before marriage does not strengthen marriages, but leaves both newlyweds to enter the marriage with a lot of baggage.
I'm strictly pro-life. IMO, the only justified reason for abortion is when there's a credible risk of death or permanent/severe injury to the mother. In that case it becomes a choice of saving one or the other - and doing nothing risks losing both.
I'm not pro baby killing. There are contraceptives, self control etc.
To the specific issue of abortion -
The very small percentage of abortions that are rape cases are red herrings. Also keep in mind that late term abortions - even after the baby is born alive - are allowed in some places. Cue Blackface "Coonman" governor
Northam on Abortion Bill: Infant Could Be Delivered and Then ‘Physicians and the Mother’ Could Decide If It Lives
While leftist are currently crying about the potential death of 1,000 people a month from Chinese Coronavirus, during that same time frame Planned Parenthood alone will have killed almost 29,000, and sold a lot of those infant corpses.
Abortion isn't just racist, it is targeted racism "79% of Planned Parenthood abortion facilities are located within walking distance of neighborhoods that have proportionately higher populations of black or Latina women" Planned Parenthood declines to publish data on the proportion of its abortion clients who are minorities,
The left tries to portray children as a burden, yet of the numerous women I know in real life, the ones that have children are the ones succeeding in their careers and life. They aren't just people who delayed kids either. Some of them were miserable, poor, bounced from job to job and bed to bed for years. After a few abortions, they (for various reasons) decided they would keep their pregnancy and had their first child. Lo and behold, some sense of responsibility blossomed in them. They entered stable relationships (although one divorced recently after 12 years because her husband was fiscally ruining the family). They developed good careers bought houses (two own several houses) and raised healthy families (the kids turned out fairly well). They weren't remotely ready for adult life before having their kids. NOT REMOTELY.
They can still party. They have just learned from having kids and a family that love comes with responsibilities.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created (not born) equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
I'm less concerned with "should abortion be legal?" and more concerned with "why should I be forced to pay for others' abortions?"
I think abortion should be legal, safe, and extremely rare. 1st trimester only.
I also think Roe v. Wade should be overturned because it was legislating from the bench, and Planned Parenthood should be defunded. Let the abortion activists fund their money laundering scam instead of the taxpayers.
Only for incest rape and risk of dying givingchildbirth but I don't yet see the solution for the increase in false rape allegations....
Sorry it's 2020 everyone has the information and technology to not get pregnant. Sex has consequences. life has consequences. Sex makes babies derrrrrr
I don’t think it should be totally banned although I think things like full term abortions are horrific.
As a political opinion I think it should be a state issue. Let the people decide. If that happened then it wouldn’t be as divisive of an issue that was so black or white.
In a generation or two then we’d see where people lean long-term in their communities. People who are okay with it may move to places it’s allowed and vice versa. But it would be good for people who are Christians or don’t believe in it and who don’t want it in their communities to have that right if they all agree. Remember, the government isn’t supposed to rule over us, it’s supposed to be representative as to what we want.
If you can justify abortion in one case, then abortion is acceptable to you. It's either taking a life or not. Logical consistency is always what screws us.
Some people say, "Oh, I'm against the death penalty except for extreme murderers & child killers (or insert your pet justification)." These people are pro death penalty & need to accept the reality of their own position, as do those who justify abortion in any instance.
Nobody here speaks for everyone here. That's sort of the point: Think for yourself, act on your own individual standards.
As for me, easy abortion without truly compelling cause is inexcusable irresponsibility for one's own sexual abandon. The "truly compelling" causes are rape, incest, and severe risk to the mother's life. All of those are rare.
I question the idea that conception being the beginning of life is inherently Christian, or religious at all. Scientifically, life is reproduction. The only way anyone knows they've conceived is because those cells are reproducing.
Legally, the question is "personhood," as in when do we become a person. Answering that with "from the moment of conception" might be religious generally, and Christian specifically. Pretty sure our Courts have never really pondered this.
Nah I think you have a bunch of people from all sides here tbh ... circumstances determinel
It's not a binary issue imo.
Stupid question. People here are not all anything except staunch Trump supporters.
And anti-pedo
I think its ok in three circumstances. 1. Rape 2. Incest 3. Mother has a high chance to die when giving birth.
Other than that, you knew the consequences of sex. Birth control is widely available and inexpensive, dont end an innocent and pure life because you're selfish and couldn't say no to getting nutted in.
Full on outlaw imo is unnecessary and circumstance needs to be considereded with something like this. Its absolutely awful to make someone go through giving birth to their rapists child or force someone to face their death.
This is basically it. Some might argue for the innocent babies life in a couple of these cases too, but most Trump supporters would go for what you said.
100% this
I agree with your numbers.
I would also add (personally) 4. If the life of the baby is also in danger of dying, or for lack of better words, being born a severe vegetable.
Basically for me, bottom line is if using abortion as a form of contraception, hard nope.
Abortion is a really difficult subject to make laws around, because there is a third party (the father). Regardless of the fact that the woman is carrying the child, the father should have a say in how things are handled. Without him, there would be no pregnancy to begin with. Both the mother and father are equally as responsible.
This is an illogical view. Rape is a horrible thing, but a baby is still a human life - that is an immutable fact. That baby is a unique soul, never to be recreated. He/she has inalienable rights - including to life. To say that the circumstance of conception changes the definition of what human life is - that is a dangerous and slippery slope. A baby is wanted, therefor deserves life, a baby is not wanted, the baby is a clump of cells. Illogical. If rape is a reason, then any reason to not want a baby is also sufficient. Are you the thought police here to read the minds Of women and determine if their reason is worthy?
As for the life of the mother, there are very few instances where a mother’s health is in jeopardy where a baby is not viable. There are in fact zero reasons to abort in the third trimester - zero. The third trimester, induced delivery is possible in all circumstances. So while in principle, I agree on this carve out, it should be well understood that this should be an exceedingly rare occurrence.
You are jumping in as though what SCOTUS included in their ruling in Roe v Wade had already happened: that personhood was defined. It never has been. They wrote that this was THE way to undermine their ruling.
No one has ever tried.
No, not the thought police..... that was merely my opinion. Thanks for your input though.
Do you think part of the anti-abortion driver is a fear that women will suddenly become insufferable thots if they can make such decisions easily? (Not being snarky, but I could imagine someone very traditional thinking that way)
I do believe that full on easy access to abortions with zero consequences does contribute to young naive women being more promiscuous than they normally would be. A lot of young women are insufferable thots now by a much higher margin then they ever have been and i think a lack of consequence is a major contribution to that. Along with the defamation and disappearance of religion and family values in our everyday lives(im not religious but i believe it has its place and is a damn good guidline for a healthy moral driven society).
I see, I can understand that. Maybe I’m biased because I’ve been (as a man) in a situation where I messed up and things could’ve ended badly if abortion wasn’t on the table (but never had).
I"m strongly Pro-Life. I oppose abortion because it destroys a human life. Humanity's problems are not solved by killing off baby humans.
You really don't know America at all, do you?
Abortion was legalized at the Federal level by a unilateral Supreme Court decision based on a woman who was told to lie that she had become pregnant because of a rape.
That Supreme Court decision was passed in 1973. Probably (by your tone of speech) far longer than you've been alive.
Reversing Roe vs. Wade does not render abortion automatically illegal. It returns jurisdiction (authority) over abortion laws to the individual states. And different states have different laws, about how late in a pregnancy, an abortion may be obtained; or whether in the case of a minor (under 18), the girl's parents must be notified or consent (abortion is an invasive medical procedure, the same restrictions apply to something as ordinary as piercing ears).
What you don't seem to realize, is that young American women are ALREADY insufferable thots; not only because of abortion, but a dozen other legal practices which combine to give them almost complete freedom from responsibility for their actions, in anything from getting drunk in college and sleeping with a guy, to forcing a man to pay for child support even if he isn't the father, to "no-fault" divorce.
Full Disclosure: I'm old enough to have been around before any of these laws were in effect. I remember the sweeping promises that abortion on demand would eliminate child abuse ("every child a wanted child") -- but in fact the opposite has happened.
For that matter, the rates of venereal diseases ("sexually transmitted diseases") has skyrocketed along with the divorce rate: multiple sexual partners before marriage does not strengthen marriages, but leaves both newlyweds to enter the marriage with a lot of baggage.
I'm strictly pro-life. IMO, the only justified reason for abortion is when there's a credible risk of death or permanent/severe injury to the mother. In that case it becomes a choice of saving one or the other - and doing nothing risks losing both.
People have different opinions. Trump supporters have a big tent. We do not all have to agree on everything.
The riots convinced me these people should’ve been aborted
I'm not pro baby killing. There are contraceptives, self control etc.
To the specific issue of abortion -
The very small percentage of abortions that are rape cases are red herrings. Also keep in mind that late term abortions - even after the baby is born alive - are allowed in some places. Cue Blackface "Coonman" governor
Northam on Abortion Bill: Infant Could Be Delivered and Then ‘Physicians and the Mother’ Could Decide If It Lives
https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
While leftist are currently crying about the potential death of 1,000 people a month from Chinese Coronavirus, during that same time frame Planned Parenthood alone will have killed almost 29,000, and sold a lot of those infant corpses.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/06/planned-parenthood-annual-report-record-high-abortions-and-taxpayer-funding/
https://www.lifenews.com/2019/09/04/planned-parenthood-admits-in-court-that-it-sold-body-parts-from-aborted-babies/
We have the then CEO of Planned Parthood talking about buying a Lamborghini with the money she makes off of selling baby parts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LPlHjP1DVw
We have Kamala Harris - protecting Planned Parthood and prosecuting the Project Veritas journalist for exposing PP's crimes.
https://www.lifenews.com/2020/09/21/kamala-harris-prosecuted-pro-lifers-who-exposed-planned-parenthood-selling-baby-parts/
Abortion isn't just racist, it is targeted racism "79% of Planned Parenthood abortion facilities are located within walking distance of neighborhoods that have proportionately higher populations of black or Latina women" Planned Parenthood declines to publish data on the proportion of its abortion clients who are minorities,
Lastly, if there was ANY doubt in your mind that Democrats LOVE killing babies - They voted against legislation that would provide medical care for babies that were born alive after a failed abortion.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/11/democrats-abortion-sasse-senate-infanticide/
The left tries to portray children as a burden, yet of the numerous women I know in real life, the ones that have children are the ones succeeding in their careers and life. They aren't just people who delayed kids either. Some of them were miserable, poor, bounced from job to job and bed to bed for years. After a few abortions, they (for various reasons) decided they would keep their pregnancy and had their first child. Lo and behold, some sense of responsibility blossomed in them. They entered stable relationships (although one divorced recently after 12 years because her husband was fiscally ruining the family). They developed good careers bought houses (two own several houses) and raised healthy families (the kids turned out fairly well). They weren't remotely ready for adult life before having their kids. NOT REMOTELY.
They can still party. They have just learned from having kids and a family that love comes with responsibilities.
Holy shit that is a great post! Thank you :)
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created (not born) equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
If all life is not valued, no life is.
I'm less concerned with "should abortion be legal?" and more concerned with "why should I be forced to pay for others' abortions?"
I think abortion should be legal, safe, and extremely rare. 1st trimester only. I also think Roe v. Wade should be overturned because it was legislating from the bench, and Planned Parenthood should be defunded. Let the abortion activists fund their money laundering scam instead of the taxpayers.
Only for incest rape and risk of dying givingchildbirth but I don't yet see the solution for the increase in false rape allegations....
Sorry it's 2020 everyone has the information and technology to not get pregnant. Sex has consequences. life has consequences. Sex makes babies derrrrrr
I believe there are some people that should not have children. 1st trimester is OK with me.
I don’t think it should be totally banned although I think things like full term abortions are horrific.
As a political opinion I think it should be a state issue. Let the people decide. If that happened then it wouldn’t be as divisive of an issue that was so black or white.
In a generation or two then we’d see where people lean long-term in their communities. People who are okay with it may move to places it’s allowed and vice versa. But it would be good for people who are Christians or don’t believe in it and who don’t want it in their communities to have that right if they all agree. Remember, the government isn’t supposed to rule over us, it’s supposed to be representative as to what we want.
I'm against systemic abortion.
I get asked this all the time.
I always say the same thing.
“Sure, I’ll support it. Right to the end of the 75th trimester”
Nope, mixed group. There's a tendency to get downvoted if you're anything less than 100% anti-abortion.
If you can justify abortion in one case, then abortion is acceptable to you. It's either taking a life or not. Logical consistency is always what screws us.
Some people say, "Oh, I'm against the death penalty except for extreme murderers & child killers (or insert your pet justification)." These people are pro death penalty & need to accept the reality of their own position, as do those who justify abortion in any instance.
I'm personally pro-death penalty & anti-abortion.
Thanks for the response. Nah not here to troll.
I’m not American so I don’t have experience with all the dynamics.
Nobody here speaks for everyone here. That's sort of the point: Think for yourself, act on your own individual standards.
As for me, easy abortion without truly compelling cause is inexcusable irresponsibility for one's own sexual abandon. The "truly compelling" causes are rape, incest, and severe risk to the mother's life. All of those are rare.
Abortion is murder.
Yes.
But that doesn't mean it should be illegal. In fact that has never been on the table. Hypocrite demonrats pretend abortion is "safe, legal, and rare."
That would actually be a major improvement!
I question the idea that conception being the beginning of life is inherently Christian, or religious at all. Scientifically, life is reproduction. The only way anyone knows they've conceived is because those cells are reproducing.
Legally, the question is "personhood," as in when do we become a person. Answering that with "from the moment of conception" might be religious generally, and Christian specifically. Pretty sure our Courts have never really pondered this.