Musk bought Tesla its own mineral rights for Lithium in Nevada using nothing but a water and simple salt boiling process.. and there's enough lithium in the claims to power every car in america, and then they can just recycle the lithium present the car fleet as they are being retired to keep going forever, kinda like asphalt paving today...
The lithium will be American, sourced with clean mining practices and recyclable.
Lithium is common as muck. It’s like the 5th most common element in the universe (and on Earth too!). It’s just cheaper to mine it in dirtpoor countries because most of the mining costs in wealthy countries is actually safety procedures related costs. In shitholes they don’t give a fuck when miners lose limbs in accidents.
if its a lab only product its not a product. until it can scale to beyond tesla battery pack levels of production (tesla cant even keep up with the demand) its a non entity.
and tesla is pioneering a new form of lithium extraction far more efficient and less 'damaging' than traditional extraction (see tesla battery day presentation). All their lithium needs will be more than met by just nevada.
I suggest you watch tesla's battery day presentation, it convinced me that electric cars are the future. It is very sustainable. Batteries can be very easily and very efficiently recycled. Essentially, you just need to mine enough raw materials to saturate the demand with batteries, and then most extraction will drop off due to recycling. And there is so much room for improvement on battery performance we will start to see in the next few years. Things as simple as 'tabless electrodes' give great gains.
Engineer here. Musk is full of shit. Most of his ideas are literally examples of bad/impossible/infeasible engineering that professors teach mechanical engineering freshmen as warnings. (And there’s a lot of such that he’s posited: SSTO, Hyperloop, the Boring company, stainless steel rockets, carbon fibre pressure vessels, battery-powered trucks and aeroplanes, rockets as human transportation, there’s more but those are literally just the ones I can remember right now).
If he bothered to get a degree, he’d understand all of that, as well as also understanding why he can only attract loser engineers who fuck up his deadlines!
You realize that these ‘impossibles’ have been demonstrated to work? Perhaps it’s your engineering degree giving thought to you ‘knowing more’, but it’s evident based on your mentality that you won’t ever achieve what Musk has. It’s not to say you aren’t smart. I’m sure you are. But dismissing things as ‘impossible’ makes you sound like a bitter old man who doesn’t want to see change.
If people like you were in charge we’d never have discovered that we live in a heliocentric system. They said ‘that’s impossible’, but some smart mother fucker proved that to be wrong.
LMAO shut the fuck up you bitter loser lol. My contributions to engineering during my career are used to build products you’ve probably bought.
Physics is physics. Materials and their properties don’t change to suit the whims of the guy paying the bills. Reality is a bitch and sometimes you need to be honest and just accept that some design goals are infeasible.
also engineer here. yeah, and I bet you'd be harping on reusable rockets in 2010. the fact is, elon musk is pioneering space transport and electric vehicles, and he's barely getting started in terms of potential.
'if he bothered to get a degree': do you actually not know he has a degree in physics? 'loser engineer'? lol, where do you work?
Dumbass. If you’re actually an engineering degree holder, go back to your professors and ask them to revoke your degree. A physics degree is nothing like an engineering degree. While both disciplines use physics, their roles and educational goals are vastly vastly different. You’d know that if you actually have an engineering degree. Retard.
The Space Shuttle Endeavour returned to Earth by remote control. So did the Soviet copycat Shuttle. That’s not impressive tech from a tech POV. Hell, Northrop did it with a suborbital prototype in the 90’s before scrapping the project as uneconomical. Which is why no other space agency bothered to pursue the concept. The only reason Musk went down that path is specifically because he didn’t know what he was doing. But it hasn’t been a success at all, with regard to reusable rockets: they’ve only actually reused a handful of rocket bodies, which all required extensive and expensive refurbishment before they could fly again. The notion of full readability without expensive refurbishment is a myth. And always will be. Materials suitable for building space craft are simply not suitable to survive the extreme temperatures experienced when they renter the atmosphere in a suitable condition to just be used again without refurbishment. The guy is a charlatan selling snake oil to the uneducated masses who simply don’t understand why his ideas are bonkers. And as I said, that’s why he can’t meet deadlines: competent engineers don’t work for charlatans because they can get proper jobs at companies on gigs with realistic design goals.
sounds like you are one of those engineers with an arrogance-to-actual-ability ratio of infinity, harping on people who actually do things to soothe your own ego. just stfu and gtfo.
You have seen SpaceX and Tesla cars and Powerwall and Tesla stock increase. Since you sound like you are so sure of your position on Musk why don't you put your $$$ where your mouth is and simply take a very large "short position" on his Tesla stock and show us your insights and degree are actually worth something
The same guys pumping stocks like Tesla were the ones selling mortgage derivatives during the 00’s. Don’t conflate asset bubbles with engineering success.
You were talking about Musk and your projection of his engineering misadventures/lack of engineering degree now you are talking about Tesla and derivatives. Again just short his stock if you believe so strongly you are right after all a few insightful hedge fund managers shorted mortgage backed securities and made a fortune
Nevada's contains enough lithium to power the entire American car fleet.
Lithium is recyclable and there's a finite amount needed to power the entire continent. Much like Asphalt paving today is mostly recycled, the same will happen with Lithium cells.
I’m not sure what your education is in. But I’m guessing it ain’t physics? Happy to see your enthusiasm but man, you really shouldn’t talk about stuff you don’t understand (that’s a life lesson I was taught long ago by my grandpa that I have always stuck by!).
Here’s the knowledge you’re lacking which should show you why your post doesn’t tally with reality: Lithium doesn’t need supernovas to be produced. It’s produced in regular ole stars. At very specific percentages (by mass) when the star eventually expires, whichever way it expires (which depends on the type of star it is). Lots of Lithium gets produced, relative to larger elements, because Lithium is simply a Hydrogen atom fuzed with a Helium atom.
All elements up to Iron are produced inside regular ole stars before they expire. Only elements larger than Iron require supernovae to be produced.
Glad your Grandpa taught you some life lessons. I'm guessing physics isn't your strong point.
I'm pretty sure the latest science says that most of the lithium in the universe was made during the Big Bang. Loads of the lithium produced in stars gets destroyed by the star itself depending on the size and type of the star.
I’m sure you know that Lithium is pretty damn volatile.
I will throw you a bone though, electric cars are the future with a better energy storage system such as a spinning disc which can store many times the energy than a battery can.
No need to be so snarky, I was just trying to help a fellow Pede.
If that’s true that’s fascinating about Big Bang lithium. Do you have a link for that? I didn’t know most of our Lithium was produced that way.
EDIT: hold the phone, I looked up lithium on Wikipedia and I’m gonna say I’m wrong here! According to this link to research from just back in May 2020, most lithium is produced in novae and not in stars. https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-06/asu-cos060120.php
Not sure if flywheel systems are too practical for small applications like cars. Williams F1 team designed such a system for buses though, with great success. If that could be scaled down, sounds like a winner to me. I agree with you about lithium batteries,
Lithium itself tends to come from South America, and although mining is one way of extracting it, there are also lithium brines (water pools that evaporate and leave the litihium behind).
Several companies, including Tesla, are currently working on ways to recycle those batteries. So, they will not be a problem for long thanks to good old human ingenuity.
mining isnt the problem it is just as safe as fracking
the problem is enviroscum destroying all modern, safe domestic mining and pushing it to shitholes with 0 environmental regulations along with the high paying jobs
Look fat, we can save the environment if we just let the Chinese do it for us. Science say pollution in China doesn't affect the Earth you see; trust the science.
I have some concerns about fracking and ground water, but I also haven't looked in to things closely, haven't looked in to them in years, and it's not enough to make me think of anything other than marking a spot on a ballot for four more years of Trump.
Those concerns are healthy and normal. But keep in mind that ecological damage is mostly a result of half-adding things. If they do things properly, there’ll be no ecological damage.
Not to mention that electric cars still need fossil fuels and nuclear power to recharge relatively quickly. Good luck recharging your car with solar panels. It can be done, but it's slow and expensive.
Hey, engineer here: this meme is great! If you want to make more environmental memes, this comment I posted previously has a bunch of information about why green energy is just bad engineering and totally never going to actually replace fossil fuels.
Yep. Solar Paneling and electric car batteries both use heavy elements that are not good at all for the environment, yet we'll entirely ignore that because, "MUH CLIMATE CHANGE!"
When you hear someone talking about 'the science' or 'sciencing' in the media or on television they are full of shit. The science behind a 'greener' source of power is complicated to say the least.
Windmills kill birds.
Solar Farms require massive amounts of habitat destruction.
Plastic is a byproduct of refining fossil fuel, and unlike plants, its carbon molecules are out of the carbon cycle.
Domestic refinement is cleaner than foreign.
Replacing everything with electric is wasteful.
Solar and Wind cant power a city on a windless night.
Most electricity used to power electric vehicles comes from a powerplant burning fossil fuels.
Water vapor is by far the greatest greenhouse gas.
The world has been hotter and will get hotter anyways; we are currently at the tail end of the Ice Age, as we still have permafrost on our poles.
Nobody tell them where the cobalt comes from.
as if they care about slave labor in africa
musk is moving away from cobolt. lithium...not so much.
Musk bought Tesla its own mineral rights for Lithium in Nevada using nothing but a water and simple salt boiling process.. and there's enough lithium in the claims to power every car in america, and then they can just recycle the lithium present the car fleet as they are being retired to keep going forever, kinda like asphalt paving today...
The lithium will be American, sourced with clean mining practices and recyclable.
https://www.mining.com/tesla-bets-on-mining-business-with-lithium-claim/
Lithium is common as muck. It’s like the 5th most common element in the universe (and on Earth too!). It’s just cheaper to mine it in dirtpoor countries because most of the mining costs in wealthy countries is actually safety procedures related costs. In shitholes they don’t give a fuck when miners lose limbs in accidents.
Tell me more about this asphalt paving you mention
Highway paving is made of RAP today. It's one of the most recycled materials around us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaimed_asphalt_pavement_%28RAP%29
Roads are repaved by 1st scraping off the layer, recycling it, and reusing it.
The comparison with lithium ion batteries is similar. Once you have enough extracted, you can just recycle what's in the product lifecycles.
Thank you pede. I need to delete my comments. I’m wondering where these dead batteries go.
They use a method called cobalt thrifting in their batteries. I believe their new batteries are even better.
Only until those Electrolytic Glass batteries get here.
if its a lab only product its not a product. until it can scale to beyond tesla battery pack levels of production (tesla cant even keep up with the demand) its a non entity.
THIS!
and tesla is pioneering a new form of lithium extraction far more efficient and less 'damaging' than traditional extraction (see tesla battery day presentation). All their lithium needs will be more than met by just nevada.
Maybe, but there isn't enough Lithium for everyone in the USA, let alone the world, to have an electric car.
And then what do you do 10 years later when all those batteries are spent?
Electric Cars are not the answer.
I suggest you watch tesla's battery day presentation, it convinced me that electric cars are the future. It is very sustainable. Batteries can be very easily and very efficiently recycled. Essentially, you just need to mine enough raw materials to saturate the demand with batteries, and then most extraction will drop off due to recycling. And there is so much room for improvement on battery performance we will start to see in the next few years. Things as simple as 'tabless electrodes' give great gains.
Engineer here. Musk is full of shit. Most of his ideas are literally examples of bad/impossible/infeasible engineering that professors teach mechanical engineering freshmen as warnings. (And there’s a lot of such that he’s posited: SSTO, Hyperloop, the Boring company, stainless steel rockets, carbon fibre pressure vessels, battery-powered trucks and aeroplanes, rockets as human transportation, there’s more but those are literally just the ones I can remember right now).
If he bothered to get a degree, he’d understand all of that, as well as also understanding why he can only attract loser engineers who fuck up his deadlines!
You realize that these ‘impossibles’ have been demonstrated to work? Perhaps it’s your engineering degree giving thought to you ‘knowing more’, but it’s evident based on your mentality that you won’t ever achieve what Musk has. It’s not to say you aren’t smart. I’m sure you are. But dismissing things as ‘impossible’ makes you sound like a bitter old man who doesn’t want to see change.
If people like you were in charge we’d never have discovered that we live in a heliocentric system. They said ‘that’s impossible’, but some smart mother fucker proved that to be wrong.
All I’m saying is you sound like a loser.
LMAO shut the fuck up you bitter loser lol. My contributions to engineering during my career are used to build products you’ve probably bought.
Physics is physics. Materials and their properties don’t change to suit the whims of the guy paying the bills. Reality is a bitch and sometimes you need to be honest and just accept that some design goals are infeasible.
The likelihood of you contributing to something revolutionary is slim to none, you generic ass loser lmfao.
All I’m saying is there’s a reason you engineer some basic ass stuff. Git gud.
also engineer here. yeah, and I bet you'd be harping on reusable rockets in 2010. the fact is, elon musk is pioneering space transport and electric vehicles, and he's barely getting started in terms of potential.
'if he bothered to get a degree': do you actually not know he has a degree in physics? 'loser engineer'? lol, where do you work?
Dumbass. If you’re actually an engineering degree holder, go back to your professors and ask them to revoke your degree. A physics degree is nothing like an engineering degree. While both disciplines use physics, their roles and educational goals are vastly vastly different. You’d know that if you actually have an engineering degree. Retard.
The Space Shuttle Endeavour returned to Earth by remote control. So did the Soviet copycat Shuttle. That’s not impressive tech from a tech POV. Hell, Northrop did it with a suborbital prototype in the 90’s before scrapping the project as uneconomical. Which is why no other space agency bothered to pursue the concept. The only reason Musk went down that path is specifically because he didn’t know what he was doing. But it hasn’t been a success at all, with regard to reusable rockets: they’ve only actually reused a handful of rocket bodies, which all required extensive and expensive refurbishment before they could fly again. The notion of full readability without expensive refurbishment is a myth. And always will be. Materials suitable for building space craft are simply not suitable to survive the extreme temperatures experienced when they renter the atmosphere in a suitable condition to just be used again without refurbishment. The guy is a charlatan selling snake oil to the uneducated masses who simply don’t understand why his ideas are bonkers. And as I said, that’s why he can’t meet deadlines: competent engineers don’t work for charlatans because they can get proper jobs at companies on gigs with realistic design goals.
sounds like you are one of those engineers with an arrogance-to-actual-ability ratio of infinity, harping on people who actually do things to soothe your own ego. just stfu and gtfo.
You have seen SpaceX and Tesla cars and Powerwall and Tesla stock increase. Since you sound like you are so sure of your position on Musk why don't you put your $$$ where your mouth is and simply take a very large "short position" on his Tesla stock and show us your insights and degree are actually worth something
the first Tesla electric was released in 2008 your 10year prediction is already off and similar to climate experts predictions
The same guys pumping stocks like Tesla were the ones selling mortgage derivatives during the 00’s. Don’t conflate asset bubbles with engineering success.
You were talking about Musk and your projection of his engineering misadventures/lack of engineering degree now you are talking about Tesla and derivatives. Again just short his stock if you believe so strongly you are right after all a few insightful hedge fund managers shorted mortgage backed securities and made a fortune
ignorant statement.
Nevada's contains enough lithium to power the entire American car fleet.
Lithium is recyclable and there's a finite amount needed to power the entire continent. Much like Asphalt paving today is mostly recycled, the same will happen with Lithium cells.
Check with Scientists. Lithium is a light metal, #3 on the periodic chart.
Hardly any gets made during supernova explosions. It's a rare earth metal.
I'll excuse your ignorant designation since we are all pedes here.
J> but there isn't enough Lithium for everyone in the USA.
I'll pretend to ignore that statement.
https://www.mining.com/web/lithium-supply-demand-story/
Well Thank You
It may have been a bit of a Trumpian overstatement but the thrust of the argument is for whats best for the US just like what the Donald does.
I’m not sure what your education is in. But I’m guessing it ain’t physics? Happy to see your enthusiasm but man, you really shouldn’t talk about stuff you don’t understand (that’s a life lesson I was taught long ago by my grandpa that I have always stuck by!).
Here’s the knowledge you’re lacking which should show you why your post doesn’t tally with reality: Lithium doesn’t need supernovas to be produced. It’s produced in regular ole stars. At very specific percentages (by mass) when the star eventually expires, whichever way it expires (which depends on the type of star it is). Lots of Lithium gets produced, relative to larger elements, because Lithium is simply a Hydrogen atom fuzed with a Helium atom.
All elements up to Iron are produced inside regular ole stars before they expire. Only elements larger than Iron require supernovae to be produced.
Glad your Grandpa taught you some life lessons. I'm guessing physics isn't your strong point.
I'm pretty sure the latest science says that most of the lithium in the universe was made during the Big Bang. Loads of the lithium produced in stars gets destroyed by the star itself depending on the size and type of the star.
I’m sure you know that Lithium is pretty damn volatile.
I will throw you a bone though, electric cars are the future with a better energy storage system such as a spinning disc which can store many times the energy than a battery can.
Thanks for the give and go, I'm enjoying it.
No need to be so snarky, I was just trying to help a fellow Pede.
If that’s true that’s fascinating about Big Bang lithium. Do you have a link for that? I didn’t know most of our Lithium was produced that way.
EDIT: hold the phone, I looked up lithium on Wikipedia and I’m gonna say I’m wrong here! According to this link to research from just back in May 2020, most lithium is produced in novae and not in stars. https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-06/asu-cos060120.php
Not sure if flywheel systems are too practical for small applications like cars. Williams F1 team designed such a system for buses though, with great success. If that could be scaled down, sounds like a winner to me. I agree with you about lithium batteries,
Thats not a lithium mine.
This is correct. This is not a Lithium mine. I believe its a copper or other metal.
Copper mine in Chile.
Don't forget all the copper that electric cars consume (4x more than gas cars).
The cables are like an inch thick for the powertrain
The copper is easy to recycle though. Its the lithium in batteries that is difficult to recycle and mostly comes from China.
Lithium itself tends to come from South America, and although mining is one way of extracting it, there are also lithium brines (water pools that evaporate and leave the litihium behind).
Tesla, and others, are working on ways to recycle the rare materials into new batteries. https://www.torquenews.com/11663/tesla-starts-battery-recycling-and-swap-program
The mine in the above pic is a copper mine!
Several companies, including Tesla, are currently working on ways to recycle those batteries. So, they will not be a problem for long thanks to good old human ingenuity.
mining isnt the problem it is just as safe as fracking
the problem is enviroscum destroying all modern, safe domestic mining and pushing it to shitholes with 0 environmental regulations along with the high paying jobs
Displacing the Sarlacc from his home is rather cruel, also.
Look fat, we can save the environment if we just let the Chinese do it for us. Science say pollution in China doesn't affect the Earth you see; trust the science.
Good news. Tesla’s invented a way to pull lithium out of dirt with minimal environmental impact.
I have some concerns about fracking and ground water, but I also haven't looked in to things closely, haven't looked in to them in years, and it's not enough to make me think of anything other than marking a spot on a ballot for four more years of Trump.
Those concerns are healthy and normal. But keep in mind that ecological damage is mostly a result of half-adding things. If they do things properly, there’ll be no ecological damage.
“Its not that liberals dont know anything. Its just that everything they know is wrong.” Ronald Reagan
Is that some deforestation i see there, too?
You ever see one of those south pacific islands that's been picked clean of lithium? Nothing left but a dead, jagged landscape of inhospitable rock.
Not to mention that electric cars still need fossil fuels and nuclear power to recharge relatively quickly. Good luck recharging your car with solar panels. It can be done, but it's slow and expensive.
Making solar panels also has an impact to the environment. No matter what you do, you will always have an impact.
Hey, engineer here: this meme is great! If you want to make more environmental memes, this comment I posted previously has a bunch of information about why green energy is just bad engineering and totally never going to actually replace fossil fuels.
https://thedonald.win/p/11PW7usER5/x/c/1AR0LV63Ih?d=50
Yep. Solar Paneling and electric car batteries both use heavy elements that are not good at all for the environment, yet we'll entirely ignore that because, "MUH CLIMATE CHANGE!"
When you hear someone talking about 'the science' or 'sciencing' in the media or on television they are full of shit. The science behind a 'greener' source of power is complicated to say the least.
Windmills kill birds.
Solar Farms require massive amounts of habitat destruction.
Plastic is a byproduct of refining fossil fuel, and unlike plants, its carbon molecules are out of the carbon cycle.
Domestic refinement is cleaner than foreign.
Replacing everything with electric is wasteful.
Solar and Wind cant power a city on a windless night.
Most electricity used to power electric vehicles comes from a powerplant burning fossil fuels.
Water vapor is by far the greatest greenhouse gas.
The world has been hotter and will get hotter anyways; we are currently at the tail end of the Ice Age, as we still have permafrost on our poles.
The list goes on and on and on....