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posted ago by devilwentdwn2georgia ago by devilwentdwn2georgia +10 / -0

Bit of background as to my political leanings, beliefs ect. This is so you guys know where I'm coming

I'm Canadian, politically center left, but very libertarian. I actually agree more with Biden's policies re: healthcare, marginal tax, ect. but am against his foreign policy, media censorship surrounding his campaign, and anti free speech rhetoric being purported by the far left.

I'm really only interested in this election because I placed some bets on the election outcome and have been watching it to see if I'm gonna win or lose money.

However, I'm very interested in allegations of fraud, media censorship ect. and so I decided to look into the details of what is going on.

Here's my honest take on what's really going on:

The reality is that both the Dem. parties and Rep. parties engage in election fraud. This is usually done on a small scale, in order to tip votes one way or the other.

Most of what is done is minor levels of election fraud and it is usually done by lower level individuals or people who are manipulated into doing so. That's why you see things like the social worker who was charged with election fraud. My guess is that someone gave her the idea to fill out ballots on behalf of the seniors in her care. Saying things like "Don't you think they should have a right to vote, even though they aren't capable" or things like "If they were able to vote they would vote for Biden. Trump's policies with coronavirus will put many seniors at risk and they could die".

Justifications like this likely led to many people making illegal votes on behalf of others and the availability of mail in ballots made this much easier for individuals to do. The democrats know this and part of their strategy was likely relying on their messaging of "getting Trump out of the white house at all costs" and "Trump is trying to suppress voters by casting doubt on mail in ballots." This kind of rhetoric probably led to people committing election fraud. As well, this kind of messaging was probably present in other areas, such as within the USPS.

If you convince people of the idea that Trump is trying to suppress votes, this leads to people doing things like backdating ballots with different dates in order to make sure they are counted, it leads to vote counters having biases when determining if a vote should or shouldn't be counted. I'm not saying they were throwing out Trump votes and keeping Biden votes. However, say a signature is close but doesn't exactly match. This bias can mean that a poll worker looking at a signature that they may be 50/50 on may rule in favor of a Biden vote vs a Trump vote. Naturally, counters that are in counties that are more pro-Biden will have been fed the rhetoric that voters are being suppressed and in turn are more likely to make errors that would favor otherwise questionable ballots.

The Dems likely know this and use it to their advantage, and it's likely republicans do the same thing in other states as well. That's why most are staying silent on this, as many know this sort of thing is rampant in US elections and done by both parties. After all, it's just the name of the game.

Now there is also the issue of voting machines those systems being manipulated. This definitely also does happen, although it is likely done to a degree to where there is plausible deniability. More than likely this means adding a few hundred votes here and there so as not to overly inflate numbers or manipulate them entirely. Having extra people on the voter rolls and asking people to vote early allows them the best opportunity to do this. Say there are 10,000 dead people on a voter registry, and 3000 submit ballots. The state can reject 2300 of them as the person being deceased, allow in 700 and of those 700 they can find 500 people with the same name and chalk it up to clerical error. If an investigation is made and can be found to have included dead people, they can turn around and say "this is only 200 people, which represents and small fraction of a percent of this election". They can use info from voter records, hospital records, tax records, ect. to categorize people based on the likelihood of them being found out. Because of the way that votes are tallied and recorded by counties and the lack of chain of accountability, this manipulation can be done by the machines and only to a degree where the results wouldn't be otherwise noticeable. As well, there can be known bugs and errors in the software that can be exploited to provide inaccurate vote totals. If investigated this can be chalked up to machine error or to clerical error. Bugs can even be put in place or software designed in a way that causes users to make errors. The software doesn't have to have a glitch or bug, but suppose that the process that the votes are tallied can be measured to be done in error 2% of the time and an error done in that regard can cause results to skew heavily towards one candidate vs the other. This is something that can never be proven, would be impossibly difficult to disprove, and ultimately will be shown to be caused by human error. The company making the machines and the state governance can then go to court and blame poor training, unclear policies, ect. for the error. This is only if it is caught however and because the incident will be chalked up to clerical error, only the votes from that one county or that one batch will be manually recounted.

I think most politicians know this and they play a game of chicken where they try and catch each other doing this, but only in cases where the fraud can change the outcome and can be shown in isolated incidents without exposing the entirety of the fraud happening elsewhere. If you look at Bush vs Gore, both Bush and Gore pursued recounts in districts where they had lost and not in districts where they had won.

When Trump went out on Nov 4th and declared that the election was a fraud, he had no evidence to support that claim, however I think that his plan all along was to try and win in this manner. His plan and his campaign took advantage of the fact that many votes were being done by mail in voting and that there would be enough fraud committed that they would have a case in many states where the margins were very close.

Knowing this, Biden focused his campaign heavily on getting people to vote by mail and encouraged his supporters to vote early. This is done so that they can collect data on ballot totals and ultimately makes it easier for them to manipulate numbers in areas where the results will be close. Trump instructed his supporters to vote on election day so that it is less likely to predict the republican turnout and in turn manipulate votes.

If we were being honest here, the reality is that fraud was likely committed by dems and republicans and that many secret deals are always being made. The thing is, since Trump has no loyalty to many of these career politicians, he has no problem using this fraud to his advantage to try and have votes thrown out and swing the election in his favor. The dems and many republicans however do not want this to happen as it will expose a lot of the ongoing fraud and also cut down in the many ways they use to manipulate elections. They also know that if fraud is investigated nationwide the political establishment will lose the trust of the American people and if a new election is held, Trump will use that to his advantage and most likely easily win the election.

Personally I don't care who wins. However, I am getting pretty sick of the media spreading a narrative and blatantly censoring stories that don't fit their narrative.

I don't like it when Trump supporters defend misleading or inaccurate statements made by Trump, Qanon conspiracies, ect. Likewise, I don't like it when the MSM, fact-checkers, ect. manipulate information to suit their narrative and when things such as the hunter Biden story are not talked about, discredited and hidden from the public.

If Trump wants to expose corruption, I'm all for it. Personally I think that in a lot of these cases there should be a re-election, not ballots being thrown out, simply because I believe american's votes need to be counted. Throwing them out would very clearly benefit Trump seeing as the majority of the ballots are mail in and wouldn't be fair. It can be argued that the ballots are being thrown out due to failures on the part of the Dem. governors, but I think that regardless who's fault it is, American's votes are important and a new election would be a more honest and fair way to do things than throwing out the ballots. Not fair for Trump's campaign, but fair for the American people.

If there were audits done in all of the swing states, I believe that there would be enough evidence of voter fraud to cast doubt and people would want a new election in those areas. If Trump is the one to expose all of this, he is in a very good position to convince people to vote for him in the case of a re-election.

tl;dr: Everybody cheats in elections, both Dems and Republicans. Trump knows this and is going to use it to undermine and try and beat the Dems. No, widespread voter fraud isn't the sole reason Biden "won", but it exists in enough capacity that Trump can use it to get votes thrown out and cast doubt on the political establishment. The political establishment knows this and that's why they're trying to win the media narrative and convince the population that Trump is just a sore loser. Personally I'm all for Trump challenging these votes and exposing this fraud. Americans should have free and fair elections and media manipulation and censorship should be exposed. However, I would heavily favor holding a re-election in the counties/states that the fraud occured over throwing out the votes, as I think this would be more fair to the american people as well as help Trump in terms of his popularity.

Just my 2 cents though having read many of the posts on here, /pol, and on reddit, as well as having looked into the various cases of voter fraud. I really don't think the election was "stolen". More like there were various cases of voter fraud that always occur and Trump is in a unique position of giving no fucks and being willing to use it to win the election through the courts. As long as he's exposing corruption, more power to him.

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devilwentdwn2georgia [S] 1 point ago +1 / -0

Ok, so when he was inaugurated he spoke about how his turnout was the "largest ever."

Obviously it's not the "largest ever". Do I care that he bs-ed a bit? No, every politician does this kind of stuff. Did the MSM make it into a huge deal when it shouldn't be? Yes.

That doesn't change the fact that objectively there was less turnout than when Obama was elected.

If I'm being fair, a lot of the "lies" the MSM claims trump says can be chalked up to hyperbole, or just his speaking style that they take to be literal.

But to suggest he has never told a lie is ridiculous. Everyone has, and every politician has, with MAYBE the exception of lincoln.

Edit: If you want some more examples, go look up politifact fact checks on Trump. Many of them they are unfair and say his statements are false when they are maybe just exaggerated, or half true, or in some cases actually true. However, I'm sure there are some things there that are objectively not true that he has said. Whether that is 10% or 50% of the stuff politifact says he lied about is up to you. But if you think it's 0% then you're clearly delusional.

Overall, I'm more concerned about Biden's lies and think he says a lot more BS than Trump when it comes to actual concerns people have of him. Just throwing that out there so you don't think im some Biden cuck trying to defend him. His sons a creep/pedo and biden is corrupt and bought by Chinese interests.

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Skygrrrl 4 points ago +4 / -0

That’s all you got? Did you see the rally’s? Anything else?? Seriously ? Do you even know what the crowd sizes were for each?

I’m sorry but America is under attack, our cities are being burned, Trump supporters are being assassinated in broad day light, and our tax dollars are funding terrorism, so some potential embellishment from the man who is trying to save it are really pretty meaningless, no?

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devilwentdwn2georgia [S] 0 points ago +1 / -1

Understand that I don't have a list of stuff to quote cause I never was trying to make the point that trump is a "LIAR". I'm just saying he does lie, so does every politician. DID I SAY AS MUCH AS EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN? NO. But don't say that he doesn't do it at all or that he's not a politician. He's not a career politician. He's not an establishment politician. But goddamn man how do you call someone running for office not a politician? Are we just arguing semantics here? Would you agree if I called him something else? My point is he holds public office and of course lies about some stuff, just like everyone else who holds public office.

Edit: Adding since you added this: "I’m sorry but America is under attack, our cities are being burned, Trump supporters are being assassinated in broad day light, and our tax dollars are funding terrorism, so some potential embellishment from the man who is trying to save it are really pretty meaningless, no?"

I'm literally in agreement with you in saying that his lies/half-truths are pretty meaningless. I'm saying every politician does it. I'm not saying Trump does it more than others. Nor am I trying to prove that he lied about this or lied about that. Can I not point out what we both agree at least is "embellishment" without you taking that as a defense of Biden?

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Skygrrrl 3 points ago +3 / -0

Nope. Because it’s utterly meaningless and only brought up to try and hurt Trump.

I guess the important thing is you see how potentially bad this is. It could be too late. It’s very sad. But I will say that there are many many people watching what is going on very closely and it’s all so obvious...that it’s scary.