I agree with everything except the fingerprint in your ballot. Our elections are supposed to be anonymous and I don’t even want to think about what would happen if people like AOC were able to get a full verified list of Trump voters.
You know, I could get behind this. We show voter ID then the fingerprint can be right next to the signature in the election book thing. Preserves anonymity while making it exceeding difficult to fake # of voters.
Especially since they do those annoying electronic signatures that look nothing like a real signature. I always thought it would be easy for someone to just scrawl something out and have it accepted because they always come out so odd.
Ive thought about this and honestly I dont care if they know who I voted for. If it means I can feel our elections are secure then thats a good trade off
They fingerprint with a dye that’s freaking impossible to clean in one day in India to prevent anyone from double voting. It’s a third world dummy proof system
Agree except I'd go further and say, NO mail in period. The military can set up in person voting remotely.
It used to be only land owners could vote. Now, even if you're too old, lazy or decrepit to go outside, you can even vote. It's too easy to exploit. People should go out of their way and plan ahead to vote in person.
Blockchain allows the inclusion of hashes of the ballots into the blockchain and makes it available for public scrutiny.
This is true inclusion.
Jeez, they scan your drivers license with uv in order to get into the plane. However when entire nations destiny is decided - nah, your electricity bill is ok.
If we can eliminate 99% of all cheating, Democrats will never win another election. If Democrats get away with this blatant cheating in 2020, Republicans will never won another election
Ohio has electronic voting with paper printout backups. The voter receives the paper printout, verifies it, then puts it in a secure bin. think this should be standard. If something doesn't add up with the electronic votes, recount via paper votes.
I disagree. Banks are very secure and they are electronic.
What we NEED is an electronic system that produces auditable proof of how you voted. And to the "these can always be faked" crowd, i get it - but please understand that having certain characteristics would in fact make this secure.
Yes, how do they get away with trucking in boxes of ballots every time? Everyone should know ahead of time how many actual ballots there are total, you can't just pull a hundred thousand ballots out of your hat and claim they were there the whole time.
No no, computers are essential for one thing: audit trails of who has voted.
It's essential that we have cryptographically secure, cryptographically timestamped, blockchain audit rolls of who has voted and when, and to have those published in real time and distributed everywhere so they can be replicated by all, checked by all, used to check for double voting, and used to ensure that no more votes were cast than there are voters on the audit roll.
Given that we can also have machines to count ballots and photograph them. As long as the ballots are kept for manual counts for checking machine accuracy.
Also, having a touchscreen to make selections is fine as long as you get your selections printed on a paper ballot that you then put into a secure ballot box. Having them photographed there is fine.
So technology is fine, but there's a lot of stuff missing in our system.
I'm a dev. I work with crypto. I would take a shit paying job in 2021 in the Trump admin to design a new system.
And none of that will matter at all, without additional controls implemented during the vote counting process.
Creating an election system that is highly resilient to widespread fraud is really easy, you build auditability right in to the process. It can be done with computers, or anything else.
What we are dealing with here is a (deliberate) process problem, not a technology problem. You can't fix a process problem by changing the technology, or vice versa.
There's nothing wrong with computers as an input mechanism. They are particularly vital for blind or visually impaired citizens because they can offer assistance that allows them to vote independently instead of having to trust a stranger to record their vote for them.
But you need a HARDCOPY OUTPUT!
Just like the receipts printed by every cash register made since the 18th century. The only difference with voting is that people can't be allowed to take their receipt with them (it would allow tracking/selling votes).
So you use the computer make your selection and it prints out the results on a piece of paper behind a layer of glass. You verify your ballot is accurate and then when you click OK that piece of paper deposits neatly into a sealed/locked/secured collection box.
If a tabulator is used it should print a paper receipt with a random number and how you voted. You can take that online and ensure that your vote was recorded correctly.
I also advocate for it to be a national holiday. And if there are ways to actually prevent fraud in place I would also agree to a 3 day weekend of voting. But this way way down on the list for after we get ttis complete BS clusterfuck fixed up.
I agree with everything except the fingerprint in your ballot. Our elections are supposed to be anonymous and I don’t even want to think about what would happen if people like AOC were able to get a full verified list of Trump voters.
Amen
Yes, we don't want a national index of fingerprints for Republicans.
There is a relatively simple way to cryptographically link identity and ballot while preserving anonymity.
Hash is a modern-day fingerprinting technique.
Anonymous voting is a thing of beauty. Something nations strived for for ages and America delivered on. I'd like to keep it this way.
What about a fingerprint FOR every ballot submitted, but not ON every ballot. That way a count can be correct without tying ballots to people.
If anyone has ink on more than one finger, you know they've been up to some funny-business.
If the total number of ballots is off from the total number of finger-print submissions, then someone is adding or removing ballots.
If the same fingerprint shows up more than once, then you know you have a double voter.
Permanent ink, which would need to persist for several days would be required and we'd have to dramatically reduce, maybe eliminate, early voting.
You know, I could get behind this. We show voter ID then the fingerprint can be right next to the signature in the election book thing. Preserves anonymity while making it exceeding difficult to fake # of voters.
Especially since they do those annoying electronic signatures that look nothing like a real signature. I always thought it would be easy for someone to just scrawl something out and have it accepted because they always come out so odd.
Ive thought about this and honestly I dont care if they know who I voted for. If it means I can feel our elections are secure then thats a good trade off
They fingerprint with a dye that’s freaking impossible to clean in one day in India to prevent anyone from double voting. It’s a third world dummy proof system
Agree except I'd go further and say, NO mail in period. The military can set up in person voting remotely.
It used to be only land owners could vote. Now, even if you're too old, lazy or decrepit to go outside, you can even vote. It's too easy to exploit. People should go out of their way and plan ahead to vote in person.
We need blockchain voting
Yes! I came here to say this!
Blockchain allows the inclusion of hashes of the ballots into the blockchain and makes it available for public scrutiny.
This is true inclusion.
Jeez, they scan your drivers license with uv in order to get into the plane. However when entire nations destiny is decided - nah, your electricity bill is ok.
Some states you can "vouch" for someone with zero documentation! Such bullshit.
If we can eliminate 99% of all cheating, Democrats will never win another election. If Democrats get away with this blatant cheating in 2020, Republicans will never won another election
Ohio has electronic voting with paper printout backups. The voter receives the paper printout, verifies it, then puts it in a secure bin. think this should be standard. If something doesn't add up with the electronic votes, recount via paper votes.
IMO even more important is including third party supervision. I don't care if it would slow the process down, I'd rather it be slow and correct.
I disagree. Banks are very secure and they are electronic.
What we NEED is an electronic system that produces auditable proof of how you voted. And to the "these can always be faked" crowd, i get it - but please understand that having certain characteristics would in fact make this secure.
Even if the counting is electronic, each observer could use their own equipment to verify the count, or spot check it.
Definitely all ballots should be on paper and retained for verification.
Voter should be able to verify their ballot is part of the count but not be able to prove how they voted.
Ballots drop into a box, unobserved.
You got my updoot.
All ya had to do was count the ballots before you opened them and say, we have xxx,xxx number ballots, let's begin to tabulate.
Yes, how do they get away with trucking in boxes of ballots every time? Everyone should know ahead of time how many actual ballots there are total, you can't just pull a hundred thousand ballots out of your hat and claim they were there the whole time.
I’ve been waiting 20 years for purple fingers.
So funny! I said this exact same thing and someone else was like “nahhhh block chain”. Even the finger dye I said.
You are absolutely right. This is how we secure our elections. If it is on a computer, it can be messed with!
How about we go straight to the death penalty for voter/election fraud. We ain’t fucking around.
public firing squads
But that's raaaaaccist!
Voter ID, yes.
Finger print, no. This should be part of VoterID application/approval/verification process.
From the minds of “having to show id to vote or be a citizen to fill out a census is racist”
Replace prison with death by firing squad and you have my support!
No no, computers are essential for one thing: audit trails of who has voted.
It's essential that we have cryptographically secure, cryptographically timestamped, blockchain audit rolls of who has voted and when, and to have those published in real time and distributed everywhere so they can be replicated by all, checked by all, used to check for double voting, and used to ensure that no more votes were cast than there are voters on the audit roll.
Given that we can also have machines to count ballots and photograph them. As long as the ballots are kept for manual counts for checking machine accuracy.
Also, having a touchscreen to make selections is fine as long as you get your selections printed on a paper ballot that you then put into a secure ballot box. Having them photographed there is fine.
So technology is fine, but there's a lot of stuff missing in our system.
I'm a dev. I work with crypto. I would take a shit paying job in 2021 in the Trump admin to design a new system.
And none of that will matter at all, without additional controls implemented during the vote counting process.
Creating an election system that is highly resilient to widespread fraud is really easy, you build auditability right in to the process. It can be done with computers, or anything else.
What we are dealing with here is a (deliberate) process problem, not a technology problem. You can't fix a process problem by changing the technology, or vice versa.
Let's throw some term limits on top of that and we got ourselves a real country going.
Minimum 10 years **no parole" so like 18 years minimum in reality
YES
There's nothing wrong with computers as an input mechanism. They are particularly vital for blind or visually impaired citizens because they can offer assistance that allows them to vote independently instead of having to trust a stranger to record their vote for them.
But you need a HARDCOPY OUTPUT!
Just like the receipts printed by every cash register made since the 18th century. The only difference with voting is that people can't be allowed to take their receipt with them (it would allow tracking/selling votes).
So you use the computer make your selection and it prints out the results on a piece of paper behind a layer of glass. You verify your ballot is accurate and then when you click OK that piece of paper deposits neatly into a sealed/locked/secured collection box.
Amen
Dick cut off if fraud commited.
If a tabulator is used it should print a paper receipt with a random number and how you voted. You can take that online and ensure that your vote was recorded correctly.
umm this is voter suppression becuz black people cant get ID.
Sounds good except for the fingerprint and the sentence. Minimum 25 years.
I'll add ICE at voter polls and the national guard
I also advocate for it to be a national holiday. And if there are ways to actually prevent fraud in place I would also agree to a 3 day weekend of voting. But this way way down on the list for after we get ttis complete BS clusterfuck fixed up.
Hear, hear
dip that finger in purple ink
You leave my wife out of this!!!
KEK
Voter fraud is treason and should be punished as such, change my mind.
Interesting how we could put a man on the moon decades ago, but we still in 2020 AD can't figure out how to vote.
I’m on the same page