How crazy is it that if this order didn’t come in, there would literally be zero paper trail and we would just have to trust the machine and it’s software?
They can't. It's federal law. Yet, a bunch of states are not in compliance. We need lawsuits against these states to force them to do what federal law requires.
we need not just lawsuits but charges against people.
Just because your state does not have a law against doing X (where x='destroying ballots before that date), does not mean you can ignore a federal prohibition on that.
that's where 'states get to decide how to run their own election' bit comes in
and before any one thinks that the remedy is 'feds should decide' imagine Biden getting certified and saying 'All state elections now run on Dominion. and you have to shred paper ballots just as MA does'
There's federal law requiring it. As the Federal government is the recipient, they need to ensure minimum federal standards for the election to be valid.
states get to decide how to run their own election
This understanding was so strong until 2018, the FBI wouldn't investigate voter fraud, ever. Trump changed that, of course.
Lol that’s exactly where were at dumbass, feds dont get to run the elections but they should be able to dictate and force states to being able to check on the elections
That's why I'm so glad when I hear about state congresspeople weighing in on this. They're the ones that should be fighting to make sure their state's elections are accurate.
the problem with these machines is that the paper ballot that it generates could be flawed if the tabulation was flawed during input - let's say you choose candidate A but candidate B is tabulated and the paper receipt is printed as candidate B - the only system that makes sense to me is a system in which at the paper ballot is marked by the voter and scanned - the paper ballot then is saved. A paper receipt generated by the machine that is not verified by the voter is almost useless. Sure it can prevent against the numbers being changed downstream, but it does not protect against software fuckery at the time of vote.
First, ID,etc to get to go to the 'voting booth', which is a computer for all the choices/etc. So you click buttons "Trump" or "Biden"
But that's merely the "Ballot Preparation Stage" - it prints a ballot that has only your choices on it in clear, unambiguous terms (on security paper, with special ink, and a block of crypto). This entire computer and everything about it is basically useless to "hack" - it makes a nice printout.
State of Washington Official Ballot
Precinct 17
Federal:
President of the United States: Donald J. Trump.
Vice-President of the United States: Mike Pence
Washington State:
Governor: Lauren Culp
Lieutenant Governor: (write in) Joshua Freed
This isn't even official until you go to the desk, "Yeah, this is my final decision" and it gets a stamp "Officially Accepted" and logged, etc. Note that there's a spot here for the voter to say "This is effed up entirely", stamp their own ballot "Spoiled" and trade that for permission to go back to the computer... Handing after that point can continue in different directions.
This is similar to yours, but should make it wildly implausible to have "ballot curation" - which is jut begging for insanity.
How crazy is it that if this order didn’t come in, there would literally be zero paper trail and we would just have to trust the machine and it’s software?
That is bat shit crazy
I keep hearing they're supposed to keep paper ballot records for at least 22 months. Dems keep trying to get this removed in various cities/states.
They can't. It's federal law. Yet, a bunch of states are not in compliance. We need lawsuits against these states to force them to do what federal law requires.
Obama Never gave up the white house
we need not just lawsuits but charges against people.
Just because your state does not have a law against doing X (where x='destroying ballots before that date), does not mean you can ignore a federal prohibition on that.
And: No one gives a shit if your state even "gives you immunity" - they aren't the darn feds.
^^^yes
If they're not in compliance, they shouldn't be permitted to nominate electors.
Completely agree
No one should be against keeping records or elections, and I'd argue 22 months is too litte, should be 7 years minimum if not forever.
Should be at least 4x as long as the IRS says I have to keep my tax records.
Why wouldn't we keep them for 22 years?
MA destroys ballot images as soon as the vote is tallied.
Some districts have machines that shred them immediately after.
All for transparency, of course.
If they do that, the voting is void.
that's where 'states get to decide how to run their own election' bit comes in
and before any one thinks that the remedy is 'feds should decide' imagine Biden getting certified and saying 'All state elections now run on Dominion. and you have to shred paper ballots just as MA does'
There's federal law requiring it. As the Federal government is the recipient, they need to ensure minimum federal standards for the election to be valid.
This understanding was so strong until 2018, the FBI wouldn't investigate voter fraud, ever. Trump changed that, of course.
Lol that’s exactly where were at dumbass, feds dont get to run the elections but they should be able to dictate and force states to being able to check on the elections
That's why I'm so glad when I hear about state congresspeople weighing in on this. They're the ones that should be fighting to make sure their state's elections are accurate.
Someone is going to have to FORCE them to stop then.
the problem with these machines is that the paper ballot that it generates could be flawed if the tabulation was flawed during input - let's say you choose candidate A but candidate B is tabulated and the paper receipt is printed as candidate B - the only system that makes sense to me is a system in which at the paper ballot is marked by the voter and scanned - the paper ballot then is saved. A paper receipt generated by the machine that is not verified by the voter is almost useless. Sure it can prevent against the numbers being changed downstream, but it does not protect against software fuckery at the time of vote.
ShikeVotingSystem:
First, ID,etc to get to go to the 'voting booth', which is a computer for all the choices/etc. So you click buttons "Trump" or "Biden"
But that's merely the "Ballot Preparation Stage" - it prints a ballot that has only your choices on it in clear, unambiguous terms (on security paper, with special ink, and a block of crypto). This entire computer and everything about it is basically useless to "hack" - it makes a nice printout.
State of Washington Official Ballot
Precinct 17
Federal:
President of the United States: Donald J. Trump.
Vice-President of the United States: Mike Pence
Washington State:
Governor: Lauren Culp
Lieutenant Governor: (write in) Joshua Freed
This isn't even official until you go to the desk, "Yeah, this is my final decision" and it gets a stamp "Officially Accepted" and logged, etc. Note that there's a spot here for the voter to say "This is effed up entirely", stamp their own ballot "Spoiled" and trade that for permission to go back to the computer... Handing after that point can continue in different directions.
This is similar to yours, but should make it wildly implausible to have "ballot curation" - which is jut begging for insanity.