You continue in misreading what the Pope says and thinks.
The Pope certainly does not think that banning guns would end all war, seeing as how he leads a Church that went to war before guns were invented. You would have to believe that the Pope is unaware of the Crusades to believe that he believes that banning guns would end all wars. Besides, the Pope certainly understands that sin is the cause of wars.
With regard to security, what he said was that we need to end the perverse idea that owning weapons is what creates safety and security in the world. He is right. Moral rectitude through relationship with Jesus Christ is what creates security in the world. Every Christian would prefer that the world be converted to Jesus as a means of establishing a more peaceful society, and so any Christian should agree with the uncontroversial statement that the mindset that simply owning more and better weapons is how we ultimately establish lasting security is false. There is nothing debatable about that statement, from a Christian perspective, unless you are arguing that Jesus Christ would himself prefer that people should focus on making the world a better place through more powerful weapons, rather than changed hearts.
The Pope does believe that the abandonment of Christian morality and its replacement with trust in man made “solutions” is wrong. He is concerned that abandoning God and turning our hopes for a better future to weapons—in the hands of governments or individuals—is leading us on a crash course to hyperinflated individual anarchism or brutally oppressive authoritarianism. And he’s right about all of that.
The Pope wants people—individual homeowners, government officials, murderous warlords—to turn to God and know that He is the hope for our security and peace. If you fault a Christian man for that, I don’t know what to tell you.
The Pope certainly does not think that banning guns would end all war
Pope:
Do we really want peace? Then let’s ban all weapons so we don’t have to live in fear of war.
You:
You would have to believe that the Pope is unaware of the Crusades to believe that he believes that banning guns would end all wars.
I believe what he says. I know not what he thinks otherwise.
Besides, the Pope certainly understands that sin is the cause of wars.
You are defending him based on what you want to believe he means, not based on the words coming out of his mouth. I can offer you my opinion of the Pope too if you like, since you keep giving yours: The Pope is a political hack.
With regard to security, what he said was that we need to end the perverse idea that owning weapons is what creates safety and security in the world. He is right.
What he said, over and over, is anti-gun, anti-2nd amendment statements. You are more than welcome to believe he meant something opposite of what he said.
Moral rectitude through relationship with Jesus Christ is what creates security in the world
Right, but because those who would do evil have guns, the average good person should also have guns, to further the protection of all that is Godly. The bible supports self-defense.
unless you are arguing that Jesus Christ would himself prefer that people should focus on making the world a better place through more powerful weapons, rather than changed hearts.
People who support the 2nd amendment aren't saying that. You are saying they say that.
The Pope does believe that the abandonment of Christian morality and its replacement with trust in man made “solutions” is wrong.
People who support the 2nd amendment aren't saying that. You are saying they say that.
The writers of the 2nd amendment were all Christian, and believed rights came from God, not government. The Pope is a narrow-minded fool at best who doesn't understand why we have the 2nd amendment, or he is a political hack.
The Pope wants people—individual homeowners, government officials, murderous warlords—to turn to God and know that He is the hope for our security and peace.
Right. And good, moralistic, Christ-believing people should also be armed, unless you believe we live in a world without evil.
If you fault a Christian man for that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Your reading into what I'm saying is about the same as your reading into what the Pope says. I own guns, and would consider myself a 2A person. I also support the Pope, because I understand him and what he actually means, in the context of and in keeping with the teachings of the Catholic Church (which I go to, am a member of, and teach the doctrines of in catechesis). And what I'm telling you is nothing more or less than what I said from the beginning: contrary to what is alleged in this meme, the Pope does not believe that owning weapons is Unchristian, unfortunate loose talk, incidental misunderstanding, and/or deliberate misconstrual notwithstanding.
And what I'm telling you is nothing more or less than what I said from the beginning
You have repeatedly defended him, beyond just the innaccuracy of this meme, which I acknowledged in my very first comment. You are covering for him and saying he doesn't support things he does. He clearly is against the 2nd amendment and/or does not understand the idea of it, and he has a leftist view of weapons/gun ownership in general. Pope Francis has a history of doing this type of thing, and no, it's not all misrepresentative or out of context. He is a political hack.
I am defending him from the inaccuracy of the meme, because he didn't say what is quoted. I'm not "covering" for him or saying he "supports" anything other than Christian doctrine, which is that conversion to Jesus, not weapons, is what will bring security to the world. He is Pope of the entire Catholic church, not just the United States of America, and his statements do not refer specifically or only to the limited context of the United States' second amendment. As such, they cannot be read as specific commentaries on it, unless he flatly says "with regard to the United States' second amendment, I say this..." As far as his view of guns/weapons in general, I think it's clear that he means what he is saying: a movement towards placing our hope in weapons is headed in the wrong direction, and that is because our hope is and must always be in a movement towards love of neighbor and God. Again, this is completely uncontroversial Church teaching. It is not I who am having a hard time squaring my perceptions of the Pope as anti-gun with the fact that he has a more or less personal armed security force, or that the Church which he heads has itself called for and supported armed conflict, or administers communion to soldiers at war, or calls the responsibility to defend those in your charge a "grave duty". Those ideas are perfectly square with the Pope's statements on weapons. Instead, I would suggest to the person alleging that the Pope believes owning guns to be Unchristian that they examine the probability of their interpretation being accurate in light of all of the contrary evidence.
The Pope would prefer that people be in love with God rather than in love with weapons, look to God for hope rather than to guns and bombs, and that there would no longer be wars or violence in the world. If all people were Christians, united in faith and doctrine, we'd be a lot closer to that goal than we are in our current situation, where most people just think in terms of wiping out their enemies, taking what they can, and forcing their will upon others. That's what I think the Pope believes, because that's what he said.
You continue in misreading what the Pope says and thinks.
The Pope certainly does not think that banning guns would end all war, seeing as how he leads a Church that went to war before guns were invented. You would have to believe that the Pope is unaware of the Crusades to believe that he believes that banning guns would end all wars. Besides, the Pope certainly understands that sin is the cause of wars.
With regard to security, what he said was that we need to end the perverse idea that owning weapons is what creates safety and security in the world. He is right. Moral rectitude through relationship with Jesus Christ is what creates security in the world. Every Christian would prefer that the world be converted to Jesus as a means of establishing a more peaceful society, and so any Christian should agree with the uncontroversial statement that the mindset that simply owning more and better weapons is how we ultimately establish lasting security is false. There is nothing debatable about that statement, from a Christian perspective, unless you are arguing that Jesus Christ would himself prefer that people should focus on making the world a better place through more powerful weapons, rather than changed hearts.
The Pope does believe that the abandonment of Christian morality and its replacement with trust in man made “solutions” is wrong. He is concerned that abandoning God and turning our hopes for a better future to weapons—in the hands of governments or individuals—is leading us on a crash course to hyperinflated individual anarchism or brutally oppressive authoritarianism. And he’s right about all of that.
The Pope wants people—individual homeowners, government officials, murderous warlords—to turn to God and know that He is the hope for our security and peace. If you fault a Christian man for that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Pope:
You:
I believe what he says. I know not what he thinks otherwise.
You are defending him based on what you want to believe he means, not based on the words coming out of his mouth. I can offer you my opinion of the Pope too if you like, since you keep giving yours: The Pope is a political hack.
What he said, over and over, is anti-gun, anti-2nd amendment statements. You are more than welcome to believe he meant something opposite of what he said.
Right, but because those who would do evil have guns, the average good person should also have guns, to further the protection of all that is Godly. The bible supports self-defense.
People who support the 2nd amendment aren't saying that. You are saying they say that.
People who support the 2nd amendment aren't saying that. You are saying they say that.
The writers of the 2nd amendment were all Christian, and believed rights came from God, not government. The Pope is a narrow-minded fool at best who doesn't understand why we have the 2nd amendment, or he is a political hack.
Right. And good, moralistic, Christ-believing people should also be armed, unless you believe we live in a world without evil.
If you fault a Christian man for that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Your reading into what I'm saying is about the same as your reading into what the Pope says. I own guns, and would consider myself a 2A person. I also support the Pope, because I understand him and what he actually means, in the context of and in keeping with the teachings of the Catholic Church (which I go to, am a member of, and teach the doctrines of in catechesis). And what I'm telling you is nothing more or less than what I said from the beginning: contrary to what is alleged in this meme, the Pope does not believe that owning weapons is Unchristian, unfortunate loose talk, incidental misunderstanding, and/or deliberate misconstrual notwithstanding.
You have repeatedly defended him, beyond just the innaccuracy of this meme, which I acknowledged in my very first comment. You are covering for him and saying he doesn't support things he does. He clearly is against the 2nd amendment and/or does not understand the idea of it, and he has a leftist view of weapons/gun ownership in general. Pope Francis has a history of doing this type of thing, and no, it's not all misrepresentative or out of context. He is a political hack.
I am defending him from the inaccuracy of the meme, because he didn't say what is quoted. I'm not "covering" for him or saying he "supports" anything other than Christian doctrine, which is that conversion to Jesus, not weapons, is what will bring security to the world. He is Pope of the entire Catholic church, not just the United States of America, and his statements do not refer specifically or only to the limited context of the United States' second amendment. As such, they cannot be read as specific commentaries on it, unless he flatly says "with regard to the United States' second amendment, I say this..." As far as his view of guns/weapons in general, I think it's clear that he means what he is saying: a movement towards placing our hope in weapons is headed in the wrong direction, and that is because our hope is and must always be in a movement towards love of neighbor and God. Again, this is completely uncontroversial Church teaching. It is not I who am having a hard time squaring my perceptions of the Pope as anti-gun with the fact that he has a more or less personal armed security force, or that the Church which he heads has itself called for and supported armed conflict, or administers communion to soldiers at war, or calls the responsibility to defend those in your charge a "grave duty". Those ideas are perfectly square with the Pope's statements on weapons. Instead, I would suggest to the person alleging that the Pope believes owning guns to be Unchristian that they examine the probability of their interpretation being accurate in light of all of the contrary evidence.
The Pope would prefer that people be in love with God rather than in love with weapons, look to God for hope rather than to guns and bombs, and that there would no longer be wars or violence in the world. If all people were Christians, united in faith and doctrine, we'd be a lot closer to that goal than we are in our current situation, where most people just think in terms of wiping out their enemies, taking what they can, and forcing their will upon others. That's what I think the Pope believes, because that's what he said.