Don't get me wrong, I certainly find value and purpose in scripture. I was a devout Christian until my teenage years which were really formative for me. In some ways I've passed the point of no return, but in others I actually believe certain things more strongly than I had as a regular church-goer.
I subscribe to Jordan Peterson's approach to the Bible nowadays (which is far closer than I was as an angry atheist). Its a balance of transcendent principles and secular thinking that mixes well for me. I'm at the point where I'm agnostic in the sense that, while I cant bring myself to interpret the Bible literally, I'm no so ignorant to the miracle that is existence that I can claim that we're simply an anomaly who don't matter.
It's been a weird journey for sure. That said, I've always appreciated the openness that you and others offer whenever I've mentioned it. I miss the security and comfort of believing, but I really can't see a way I come "fully" back without lying to myself.
My hope is that if I can utilize scripture as a philosophy that successfully propelled humanity to where it is today, strip out the superstition, but live by the principles as well as I can, that maybe I'd be shown mercy if my non-literal interpretation turns out to be correct.
I went to church up until I was about 16 or so. I began to question a lot that didn't quite make sense to me around then and it eventually lead to my leaving the church completely.
I had my "militant atheism" phase since I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder, but that eventually faded and I came to appreciate the value of Christianity while not necessarily subscribing to it personally.
It was less of a decision and more of a realization. I wanted nothing more than to go back to believing, but it was like peeking behind the curtain with no way to turn back.
For what its worth, Jordan Peterson speaks on it in a way I'm on board with. I cant go back to believing in a literal sense, but the idea that there are principles that we can consider to be transcendent (which I guess would be God as far as translation goes) is something I do hold to be true.
It's constantly on my mind. I like to think that I believe "enough" of the spark notes so-to-speak. I live my life as though there is a god, so Hell, maybe I'm more Christian than I realize.
The morality is something I value very much, but the superstition doesn't jive with however my brain works.
So I was raised in a protestant church where we took the word literally. Basically a textualist approach to scripture.
As I got older and learned more about our understanding of reality, the scripture went from being the bona-fide literal truth to seeming more like a story.
Rebel-teen brain kicked in and found everything wrong that it could. Things like the creation story, the floods, etc. made less and less sense to me. Then I became angry with the idea that it was so easy for me to believe because of how easy my life was and how fortunate I was while growing up. I was never starving, I was never in fear of not having clean water, I wasn't born with any disabilities, etc.
I felt like I'd been had, but instead of giving religion the benefit of the doubt, my mind decided to go scorched earth on the idea. I felt that religion was for people who were afraid of death, who wanted to justify wrongs in the world as being "the plan," and wasn't satisfied with the idea of ignoring these thoughts by simply having faith. Evidence to the contrary piled up, but the church said "don't worry your pretty little head, just ignore that."
I don't hold those hostile attitudes any more (especially with Peterson's lectures), but it's hard for me to believe in the God I was taught about. At least as far as his abilities went.
I went to a catholic university and had some really great discussions with my theology professor about my journey. He said that a collegue of his has argued that the Bible may have overstated the power of God. Im gonna butcher it, but it was something akin to:
"Due to the suffering allowed in this world, God cannot be all knowing, all loving, and all powerful. One must give. He either knows and controls all, but is not all loving (or else we would not have childhood cancer), controls and loves all but does not know all (i.e. he isn't aware of childhood cancer), or he knows and loves all, but is not in control (therefore he detests childhood cancer, but cannot prevent it)."
He told me it was a point that caused him to struggle, and that he subscribes to the idea that God knows and loves all, but is no longer in control. He says he can see a reality in which God was in control, but gave up the controls to man in a way that he cannot override them.
I'm just rambling at this point, but basically it doesn't jive with my interpretation of reality. I can see the scripture as a philosophy that still holds value, but the superstition is something I can't bring myself to hold as true without being dishonest with myself.
I had much the same journey; I have a lot of trouble saying I believe in God, but symbolically, in my mind, when I think in those terms - well, it seems to have an effect on my mitochondria. I feel a sense of energy..
..and maybe that is enough to make it true (or I'm just mad lol).
Do you believe in your own spirit? Is there something to your experience here that is more than the sum of the flesh parts? Why should we even be aware at all when our mechanisms could simply function without a consciousness as any machine does?
If you bodies have some strange spirit moving within them, what about the body of the universe?
I'm not even a Christian and it still gives me hope.
Good. I hope you reconsider your stance on Christianity friend. There are many uplifting quotes and life values you can learn from.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly find value and purpose in scripture. I was a devout Christian until my teenage years which were really formative for me. In some ways I've passed the point of no return, but in others I actually believe certain things more strongly than I had as a regular church-goer.
I subscribe to Jordan Peterson's approach to the Bible nowadays (which is far closer than I was as an angry atheist). Its a balance of transcendent principles and secular thinking that mixes well for me. I'm at the point where I'm agnostic in the sense that, while I cant bring myself to interpret the Bible literally, I'm no so ignorant to the miracle that is existence that I can claim that we're simply an anomaly who don't matter.
It's been a weird journey for sure. That said, I've always appreciated the openness that you and others offer whenever I've mentioned it. I miss the security and comfort of believing, but I really can't see a way I come "fully" back without lying to myself.
My hope is that if I can utilize scripture as a philosophy that successfully propelled humanity to where it is today, strip out the superstition, but live by the principles as well as I can, that maybe I'd be shown mercy if my non-literal interpretation turns out to be correct.
You'll be alright, I know it :)
No matter how far you walk away from God, you are only one step back to Him.
never too late . . . Christ would for you to join Him
I appreciate it, friend.
I went to church up until I was about 16 or so. I began to question a lot that didn't quite make sense to me around then and it eventually lead to my leaving the church completely.
I had my "militant atheism" phase since I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder, but that eventually faded and I came to appreciate the value of Christianity while not necessarily subscribing to it personally.
It was less of a decision and more of a realization. I wanted nothing more than to go back to believing, but it was like peeking behind the curtain with no way to turn back.
For what its worth, Jordan Peterson speaks on it in a way I'm on board with. I cant go back to believing in a literal sense, but the idea that there are principles that we can consider to be transcendent (which I guess would be God as far as translation goes) is something I do hold to be true.
It's constantly on my mind. I like to think that I believe "enough" of the spark notes so-to-speak. I live my life as though there is a god, so Hell, maybe I'm more Christian than I realize.
The morality is something I value very much, but the superstition doesn't jive with however my brain works.
What is it that makes you unable to believe? I guess, I'm asking what was behind the curtain that you saw?
So I was raised in a protestant church where we took the word literally. Basically a textualist approach to scripture.
As I got older and learned more about our understanding of reality, the scripture went from being the bona-fide literal truth to seeming more like a story.
Rebel-teen brain kicked in and found everything wrong that it could. Things like the creation story, the floods, etc. made less and less sense to me. Then I became angry with the idea that it was so easy for me to believe because of how easy my life was and how fortunate I was while growing up. I was never starving, I was never in fear of not having clean water, I wasn't born with any disabilities, etc.
I felt like I'd been had, but instead of giving religion the benefit of the doubt, my mind decided to go scorched earth on the idea. I felt that religion was for people who were afraid of death, who wanted to justify wrongs in the world as being "the plan," and wasn't satisfied with the idea of ignoring these thoughts by simply having faith. Evidence to the contrary piled up, but the church said "don't worry your pretty little head, just ignore that."
I don't hold those hostile attitudes any more (especially with Peterson's lectures), but it's hard for me to believe in the God I was taught about. At least as far as his abilities went.
I went to a catholic university and had some really great discussions with my theology professor about my journey. He said that a collegue of his has argued that the Bible may have overstated the power of God. Im gonna butcher it, but it was something akin to:
"Due to the suffering allowed in this world, God cannot be all knowing, all loving, and all powerful. One must give. He either knows and controls all, but is not all loving (or else we would not have childhood cancer), controls and loves all but does not know all (i.e. he isn't aware of childhood cancer), or he knows and loves all, but is not in control (therefore he detests childhood cancer, but cannot prevent it)."
He told me it was a point that caused him to struggle, and that he subscribes to the idea that God knows and loves all, but is no longer in control. He says he can see a reality in which God was in control, but gave up the controls to man in a way that he cannot override them.
I'm just rambling at this point, but basically it doesn't jive with my interpretation of reality. I can see the scripture as a philosophy that still holds value, but the superstition is something I can't bring myself to hold as true without being dishonest with myself.
I had much the same journey; I have a lot of trouble saying I believe in God, but symbolically, in my mind, when I think in those terms - well, it seems to have an effect on my mitochondria. I feel a sense of energy..
..and maybe that is enough to make it true (or I'm just mad lol).
Some questions to consider...
Do you believe in your own spirit? Is there something to your experience here that is more than the sum of the flesh parts? Why should we even be aware at all when our mechanisms could simply function without a consciousness as any machine does?
If you bodies have some strange spirit moving within them, what about the body of the universe?
I quit going as a 'rebel teen' as well.
I came back in 2015 by believing Donald Trump would be President.