Military can only tribunal those who are apprehended in a designated zone of conflict where civilian courts are unable to take the case. It would take the insurrection act, 14th Amendment to unseat officials on equal protection issues and after that apprehend the people in those areas. I don’t even see it viable to do Nuremberg style trials using the military because it would require a complete failure of society. There might be some legal judo where sending people to combat zones and then arresting them, but, that’s highly unlikely to work out in any fashion as the offenses were committed in another location.
I hope they can make the tribunals work and justice swift. We don’t need another 4 years of crazy TV coverage and people crying as victims when they worked to overthrow the GEOTUS.
Well technically we are and have been at war since 2001. The War on terror is not a specific country it is terror period. President Trump also declared a National Emergency so we are and have been under that for a while as well.
If Iran, China, Venezuela, Serbia etc etc have infiltrated our Government in all 3 branches then wouldn't that be a complete failure of our system? isnt there enough justification for the insurrection act?
I believe all of those things above are true and if that is the case, it would fit the criteria you listed. In my opinion anyway.
Military can only tribunal those who are apprehended in a designated zone of conflict where civilian courts are unable to take the case
I'm pretty sure that part of the reason us libertarians were freaking out about the "enemy combatant" clause was that ANYONE ANYWHERE could be declared one, including american citizens...
GWOT might be an umbrella but the way I read the laws and information out there would require a designation of specific counties or states, or, a prescribed area to be an area of operations. Due to the nature of the crime we think is unfolding before us, it would take awhile to create the legal framework to declare extensive places of the country under this sort of an order. It would be easier if specific states refused to obey the removal of officials involved with the fraud.
Two scenarios I see playing out if it even goes in this direction at all.
Officials removed, National Guard in that state takes charge with Federal oversight. New elections for offices involved, afterwards they reestablish confidence in the local populations and basically life goes on.
The worst option is an outright denial of a 2nd term and any actions taken by Trump to remedy the problems through constitutional methods. After invoking the 14th and declaring specific individuals out of office, they don't leave office, effectively creating the 2nd Civil War.
I can't think of an example of the SCOTUS hearing a regular criminal trial, such as, no other court has jurisdiction in an area that resides in the CONUS and they take the case as some local jurisdiction can't but would.
This leads me to the only option for tribunals and would mean a complete collapse of society in most circumstances. Part of me thinks this was somewhat the plan all along, as to claim victim status for the establishment types and attempt to get intervention by sympathetic actors.
Tribunals can only be done to members of the military, or, if the military is the government and specific considerations are given to the offender and what capacity they acted under - uniformed combatant, saboteur, non-combatant and there is some grey area between each of these areas. Some provide protections by laws of armed conflict and/or other legal frameworks to include civil court laws and precedence.
I'm not a lawyer but spent a lot of time reading about the fine print of this sort of stuff. Hopefully it makes sense and if you see any mistakes, please point them out.
We need justice and swiftly. We also need full public disclosure and understanding as to have any sense of healing to move forward as a society. It's the only way.
Elections rigged for the past seventy years (if not two centuries), two tier justice system, congressmen creating lists of dissidents, federal agencies being used to spy on political rivals and their supporters, parents injecting hormones into their children, birth rates dropping like a stone, high divorce rates (and would be higher if people didn't give up marriage), most of the population stoned on anti-depressants.
If that doesn't qualify us as a failed society, what does?
The issue Trump faces is having the press against him for years and naming him as an aggressor or tyrant. His ability to enforce the law in a manner to bring stability requires him to act when all other legal options are exhausted AND the offenders are defiant to very large majority of public option.
I'm not arguing the circumstances we face aren't a breakdown of civil society. I think it is. The problem we face is legal mechanisms to remedy this have timers on them and between the anxiety/anger in public with pressure from media and establishment to quit, he has to keep his cool. Only when all other options are exhausted and the public has the information about the steal, can he start to use these last resort tools. If he does it before, we will have a serious problem going forward.
I think the SCOTUS will hear the case and give him a favorable ruling with all the information out there. Because of his 3 picks on the court, the opposing sides might just say he stacked the court and not comply either. It's 2020, anything can happen at this point. I personally think he will have to give a heavy hand to the situation and has been placing people recently ( DOD ) in the right places to do this if the time comes.
Military can only tribunal those who are apprehended in a designated zone of conflict where civilian courts are unable to take the case. It would take the insurrection act, 14th Amendment to unseat officials on equal protection issues and after that apprehend the people in those areas. I don’t even see it viable to do Nuremberg style trials using the military because it would require a complete failure of society. There might be some legal judo where sending people to combat zones and then arresting them, but, that’s highly unlikely to work out in any fashion as the offenses were committed in another location.
I hope they can make the tribunals work and justice swift. We don’t need another 4 years of crazy TV coverage and people crying as victims when they worked to overthrow the GEOTUS.
Well technically we are and have been at war since 2001. The War on terror is not a specific country it is terror period. President Trump also declared a National Emergency so we are and have been under that for a while as well.
If Iran, China, Venezuela, Serbia etc etc have infiltrated our Government in all 3 branches then wouldn't that be a complete failure of our system? isnt there enough justification for the insurrection act?
I believe all of those things above are true and if that is the case, it would fit the criteria you listed. In my opinion anyway.
Technically we never declared war, only an authorization for use of force.
I think so too. I found this. It isn't 2020, I think it is 2019 but it says you are still at war
https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2020/09/11/19-years-after-911-still-at-war-with-an-outdated-authorization/
I'm pretty sure that part of the reason us libertarians were freaking out about the "enemy combatant" clause was that ANYONE ANYWHERE could be declared one, including american citizens...
GWOT might be an umbrella but the way I read the laws and information out there would require a designation of specific counties or states, or, a prescribed area to be an area of operations. Due to the nature of the crime we think is unfolding before us, it would take awhile to create the legal framework to declare extensive places of the country under this sort of an order. It would be easier if specific states refused to obey the removal of officials involved with the fraud.
Two scenarios I see playing out if it even goes in this direction at all.
Officials removed, National Guard in that state takes charge with Federal oversight. New elections for offices involved, afterwards they reestablish confidence in the local populations and basically life goes on.
The worst option is an outright denial of a 2nd term and any actions taken by Trump to remedy the problems through constitutional methods. After invoking the 14th and declaring specific individuals out of office, they don't leave office, effectively creating the 2nd Civil War.
I can't think of an example of the SCOTUS hearing a regular criminal trial, such as, no other court has jurisdiction in an area that resides in the CONUS and they take the case as some local jurisdiction can't but would.
This leads me to the only option for tribunals and would mean a complete collapse of society in most circumstances. Part of me thinks this was somewhat the plan all along, as to claim victim status for the establishment types and attempt to get intervention by sympathetic actors.
Tribunals can only be done to members of the military, or, if the military is the government and specific considerations are given to the offender and what capacity they acted under - uniformed combatant, saboteur, non-combatant and there is some grey area between each of these areas. Some provide protections by laws of armed conflict and/or other legal frameworks to include civil court laws and precedence.
I'm not a lawyer but spent a lot of time reading about the fine print of this sort of stuff. Hopefully it makes sense and if you see any mistakes, please point them out.
We need justice and swiftly. We also need full public disclosure and understanding as to have any sense of healing to move forward as a society. It's the only way.
Elections rigged for the past seventy years (if not two centuries), two tier justice system, congressmen creating lists of dissidents, federal agencies being used to spy on political rivals and their supporters, parents injecting hormones into their children, birth rates dropping like a stone, high divorce rates (and would be higher if people didn't give up marriage), most of the population stoned on anti-depressants.
If that doesn't qualify us as a failed society, what does?
The Supreme Court hasn't ruled that to be the case yet. /s
The Supreme Courts haven't agrued us extensively into Civil War yet.
Could he not declare insurrection and then name them enemy combatants and go that route?
The issue Trump faces is having the press against him for years and naming him as an aggressor or tyrant. His ability to enforce the law in a manner to bring stability requires him to act when all other legal options are exhausted AND the offenders are defiant to very large majority of public option.
I'm not arguing the circumstances we face aren't a breakdown of civil society. I think it is. The problem we face is legal mechanisms to remedy this have timers on them and between the anxiety/anger in public with pressure from media and establishment to quit, he has to keep his cool. Only when all other options are exhausted and the public has the information about the steal, can he start to use these last resort tools. If he does it before, we will have a serious problem going forward.
I think the SCOTUS will hear the case and give him a favorable ruling with all the information out there. Because of his 3 picks on the court, the opposing sides might just say he stacked the court and not comply either. It's 2020, anything can happen at this point. I personally think he will have to give a heavy hand to the situation and has been placing people recently ( DOD ) in the right places to do this if the time comes.