Roughly half of the 6,024 participants, were randomly assigned to wear surgical masks “outside the home among other persons together” while the other half continued to operate in public without a mask.
After a month, 42 of the mask-wearers in the study (1.8 percent) were infected with the virus while 53 of the non-mask-wearers (2.1. percent) were infected with the virus. Statistically, this is not a significant difference between the two groups.
I'm glad studies are finally revealing this is true but most reasonable people already knew masks are ineffective otherwise infection rates would be way down. All leftists want to do is double down on a failed effort so they don't have to admit they're wrong
... masks are asked to be worn to reduce transmission rate from the sick person to others. Similar how in surgery, masks are worn to prevent transmission to the vulnerable patient being operated on, not to protect the staff from the patient.
Doctors always said that they offer negligible protection to the wearer... which this study confirms.
In no way however does it dismantle the pro-mask narrative.
Yes it does, because healthy people don't need to wear masks. A healthy person cannot infect you, mask or otherwise.
By healthy people wearing masks, they are actually increasing their chance of getting sick, because wearing masks are not healthy. It's like breathing through a petri-dish or potential bacteria and god knows what else.
In unrealistically ideal circumstances that may be true. Unrealistically ideal means surgical grade masks that are worn once then disposed of, and not contaminated by touching your mask.
Do you know anyone who only uses surgical grade masks, once per outing, and never touches their face? No, you don’t.
So instead, masks are acting as disease incubators people wear in the most vulnerable possible place, that they’re constantly loading up handfuls of contamination and spreading it to every.single.thing. they touch.
To be extra clear, constructing a study that disproves masks decrease risk for others in a real world setting is impossible. Even in a laboratory setting it would be a huge undertaking requiring complete isolation of the experiment groups. You would also have to purposefully find and expose healthy people to a known contagious individual.
The reality is that a healthy person wearing a mask does absolutely nothing to protect others. Most of the people wearing masks are healthy and not contagious which makes the whole exercise pointless from the start. They don't even understand the modes of transmission beyond well. Yet we have everyone walking around like clowns pretending a dirty piece of cloth is saving the world.
there is usually a period of time for a healthy person when they are getting sick and starting to cough a bit and not quite realize that its not longer merely 'clearing your throat' kind of cough
Some people are the kind of asshole that would get sick and walk into a store without a mask with full coughing fits etc all over the place. Simply because they don't care.
Personally i am against any kind of mask mandates or coercion by government at any level.
But I also think that
a) Private business should be free to seek a competitive advantage of being slightly safer from plague, by mandating masks on their property. They should also be free to mandate the same just because they hate seeing people's faces or any other reason - their business, their rules.
b) People should be free to mandate masks for anyone coming on to their property - be that a delivery person approaching porch, or a repair technician coming inside. The employer of those services may choose to not serve the customer if they want.
c) Its a good idea to wear a mask even if you think you are healthy, if you are interacting with a high risk person - but that should be entirely optional.
I think the whole mask thing really has more to do with your second point than your first. Asymptomatic spread is nothing more than an assumption at this point and is far from well understood. However, sick people are contagious and it wouldn't work to say only wear a mask if you are sick because then people would attack you for being out in public while sick as the mask would be an admission. To address that issue they just tell everyone to wear a mask so that when sick people inevitably go out in public at least they will have a mask on. I really think healthy people wearing masks has a non-existent benefit by itself even when considering the possibility of some asymptomatic spread. The likelihood that any one non-symptomatic person being infected and also contagious and also is proximity to spread amongst multiple people is astronomically low.
Feel free to cite my reply to dispute the MSM narrative. If someone demands a source to my claim (the only fact that someone could errantly dispute is that viruses survive longer on warm wet fabric), please refer them to a 5th grade science textbook, any edition should do.
This is correct. This study was (purposefully?) designed to avoid testing the stated justification that maskers foist as “science”, which is that ’muh masks prevent asymptomatic people from spreading muh corona via droplets expelled during breathing, talking, and coughing, by ‘trapping’ these droplets in the mask’.
This is a purposefully weak study popularized specifically to create an easy deboonk opportunity.
THE REAL COUNTERARGUMENTS ARE THESE:
Arguments range from common sense/logical to validated evidence/scientific data, from philosophical to practical and demonstrated by historical records. Some involve known measurements, some involve inferences from data, and some involve deductions from the real-world application of observed behavior and phenomena
Cloth masks have never historically been considered an effective option for stopping viruses except by the desperate, ignorant, or scared.
If an extra barrier around our breathing orifices reduced viral infections we would have evolved one either naturally or behaviorally (examples: natural saliva destroys viruses, most human cultures evolved to favor boiled and/or fermented drinks which long before germ theory was discovered)
If virus particles collect in the mask, the last thing you’d want is it to be resting against your lips all day.
Viruses are massively smaller than the filtration provided by any mask, including medical masks. It’s like using a chain-link fence to block mosquitoes, on the theory that some of the mosquitoes might be caught up and carried over in droplets from the lawn sprinkler.
Expelled air doesn’t just disappear when you breathe it into a mask. The only thing you’re going to change is the direction and perhaps the velocity of it’s spread. Rather than directly out and down, it is cast upwards and backwards through the gaps in the mask/face barrier, which extends the amount of time the virus is airborne, likely allows it to disperse over a greater area, creates ‘clouds’ at face level, and prevents a person from being able to choose the safest direction when talking or coughing.
The best disease entry point for airborne viruses is the eyes, which have far less natural antiviral defenses than the mouth and nose. The mask gaps direct a stream of particles up and into the eyes.
Infectious particles collecting in a mask barrier leads to rebreathing contamination that would otherwise be expelled out into an environment where UV rays would destroy the virus, and more likely infection along a nasal brain nerve pathway — increasing a mask-wearer’s risk of infection.
Increased personal risk of infection directly translates into greater community risk, so anything that exposes the individual de facto exposes the community (rather than the idea that one is taking on some personal risk to protect others). The biggest thing any person can do to protect others is to protect themselves.
Governments have a spectacularly poor record of misinterpreting science and mismanaging public health policy, often with disasterous consequences. Every bureaucratic effort surrounding Covid has been marked by incompetence and error. Why should mask mandates be an exception to this trend?
Health care is an individual responsibility and a matter of personal body autonomy and choice. Individuals have a right to make their OWN decisions. The ‘public health’ should not allow government to violate the rights of healthy people.
Mask mandates do not correlate with reductions in cases, infections, or deaths anywhere in the world, irregardless of compliance. In short, there is no good evidence that they actually work (claims to support that they do can be shown to rest upon presupposition, theoretical modeling, and extremely weak correlation).
There exists decades of valid scientific research about mask efficacy, virtually all of which goes against the ideas undergirding mask mandates. No new studies disproving or overriding this existing science has been done.
Even if masks were shown to give some benefit (and there are a few limited circumstances in which they can), easily observable behaviors surrounding the way they are actually donned, worn, stored, and handled in real-world settings clearly shows that actual practice negates and undermines any potential benefit (and studies show this is true even among highly trained medical professionals.
MASKERS CANNOT PRODUCE A SINGLE CONCLUSIVE PIECE OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEIR CLAIM — THEY JUST APPEAL TO THEIR AUTHORITY, CITE THEIR OWN MANDATES, AND REFER TO STUDIES THAT USE THEIR OWN ASSUMPTIONS AS FOUNDATIONAL INPUTS.
”It’s true because we think it is, based on a statement we put out that says so!”
Fauci is on record saying that the primary spread of any similar virus is symptomatic transmission
Right now the medical establishment has said that to beat a virus we need to treat every person we meet like they are sick. We need them to wear masks for us and stay away from us. What is the scientific basis for this guidance?
Right now the medical establishment has said that to beat a virus we need to treat every person we meet like they are sick. We need them to wear masks for us and stay away from us. What is the scientific basis for this guidance?
would point out that I disagree with that consensus and I don't think that's even a consensus.
still - would rather not wear a mask in store, but i put on a mask when seeing my 80+ year old grandparents. I sometimes get cough / sneeze that usually clears up in half a day and sometimes gets more serious. I can't really track each time I cough even when I consider myself health, so if it's even like -10% probability of transmission, i think it's worth it for those few hours when I interact with particularly vulnerable people.
Passing emergency executive orders mandating something should have a higher bar than, “it might help.” Especially considering the way people demanded RCTs for HCQ. They literally banned it for lack of RCTs.
Saying that other people are responsible for your health is dangerous and wrong.
Masks are only helpful in very specific circumstances and with proper use. As the other person said they should stay at home if sick. When you start saying wear a mask and it'll be fine people will go out when sick with the mask and boom.
If you have your wits about you and your head screwed on straight then it'll be fairly obvious in situations where you might want to wear a mask.
In many such situations people already often wear a mask such as preparing food.
It's true. If you don't want to get sick, stay home. This has been done for years where leftists move into an area demand you conform to their beliefs instead of them learning to assimilate. This is literally what this country was founded on. We don't like the way you treat us, so we're leaving to find our own place where we have freedom to not try to fight you on everything you think we should be doing.
Quote:
Roughly half of the 6,024 participants, were randomly assigned to wear surgical masks “outside the home among other persons together” while the other half continued to operate in public without a mask.
After a month, 42 of the mask-wearers in the study (1.8 percent) were infected with the virus while 53 of the non-mask-wearers (2.1. percent) were infected with the virus. Statistically, this is not a significant difference between the two groups.
I'm glad studies are finally revealing this is true but most reasonable people already knew masks are ineffective otherwise infection rates would be way down. All leftists want to do is double down on a failed effort so they don't have to admit they're wrong
... masks are asked to be worn to reduce transmission rate from the sick person to others. Similar how in surgery, masks are worn to prevent transmission to the vulnerable patient being operated on, not to protect the staff from the patient.
Doctors always said that they offer negligible protection to the wearer... which this study confirms.
In no way however does it dismantle the pro-mask narrative.
Yes it does, because healthy people don't need to wear masks. A healthy person cannot infect you, mask or otherwise.
By healthy people wearing masks, they are actually increasing their chance of getting sick, because wearing masks are not healthy. It's like breathing through a petri-dish or potential bacteria and god knows what else.
In unrealistically ideal circumstances that may be true. Unrealistically ideal means surgical grade masks that are worn once then disposed of, and not contaminated by touching your mask.
Do you know anyone who only uses surgical grade masks, once per outing, and never touches their face? No, you don’t.
So instead, masks are acting as disease incubators people wear in the most vulnerable possible place, that they’re constantly loading up handfuls of contamination and spreading it to every.single.thing. they touch.
to be clear, i am not arguing myself in favor of masks.
i am saying this study does not dispute the MSM narrative.
To be extra clear, constructing a study that disproves masks decrease risk for others in a real world setting is impossible. Even in a laboratory setting it would be a huge undertaking requiring complete isolation of the experiment groups. You would also have to purposefully find and expose healthy people to a known contagious individual.
The reality is that a healthy person wearing a mask does absolutely nothing to protect others. Most of the people wearing masks are healthy and not contagious which makes the whole exercise pointless from the start. They don't even understand the modes of transmission beyond well. Yet we have everyone walking around like clowns pretending a dirty piece of cloth is saving the world.
I agree with both your points.
2 small caveats:
there is usually a period of time for a healthy person when they are getting sick and starting to cough a bit and not quite realize that its not longer merely 'clearing your throat' kind of cough
Some people are the kind of asshole that would get sick and walk into a store without a mask with full coughing fits etc all over the place. Simply because they don't care.
Personally i am against any kind of mask mandates or coercion by government at any level.
But I also think that
a) Private business should be free to seek a competitive advantage of being slightly safer from plague, by mandating masks on their property. They should also be free to mandate the same just because they hate seeing people's faces or any other reason - their business, their rules.
b) People should be free to mandate masks for anyone coming on to their property - be that a delivery person approaching porch, or a repair technician coming inside. The employer of those services may choose to not serve the customer if they want.
c) Its a good idea to wear a mask even if you think you are healthy, if you are interacting with a high risk person - but that should be entirely optional.
I think the whole mask thing really has more to do with your second point than your first. Asymptomatic spread is nothing more than an assumption at this point and is far from well understood. However, sick people are contagious and it wouldn't work to say only wear a mask if you are sick because then people would attack you for being out in public while sick as the mask would be an admission. To address that issue they just tell everyone to wear a mask so that when sick people inevitably go out in public at least they will have a mask on. I really think healthy people wearing masks has a non-existent benefit by itself even when considering the possibility of some asymptomatic spread. The likelihood that any one non-symptomatic person being infected and also contagious and also is proximity to spread amongst multiple people is astronomically low.
Feel free to cite my reply to dispute the MSM narrative. If someone demands a source to my claim (the only fact that someone could errantly dispute is that viruses survive longer on warm wet fabric), please refer them to a 5th grade science textbook, any edition should do.
This is correct. This study was (purposefully?) designed to avoid testing the stated justification that maskers foist as “science”, which is that ’muh masks prevent asymptomatic people from spreading muh corona via droplets expelled during breathing, talking, and coughing, by ‘trapping’ these droplets in the mask’.
This is a purposefully weak study popularized specifically to create an easy deboonk opportunity.
THE REAL COUNTERARGUMENTS ARE THESE:
Arguments range from common sense/logical to validated evidence/scientific data, from philosophical to practical and demonstrated by historical records. Some involve known measurements, some involve inferences from data, and some involve deductions from the real-world application of observed behavior and phenomena
Cloth masks have never historically been considered an effective option for stopping viruses except by the desperate, ignorant, or scared.
If an extra barrier around our breathing orifices reduced viral infections we would have evolved one either naturally or behaviorally (examples: natural saliva destroys viruses, most human cultures evolved to favor boiled and/or fermented drinks which long before germ theory was discovered)
If virus particles collect in the mask, the last thing you’d want is it to be resting against your lips all day.
Viruses are massively smaller than the filtration provided by any mask, including medical masks. It’s like using a chain-link fence to block mosquitoes, on the theory that some of the mosquitoes might be caught up and carried over in droplets from the lawn sprinkler.
Expelled air doesn’t just disappear when you breathe it into a mask. The only thing you’re going to change is the direction and perhaps the velocity of it’s spread. Rather than directly out and down, it is cast upwards and backwards through the gaps in the mask/face barrier, which extends the amount of time the virus is airborne, likely allows it to disperse over a greater area, creates ‘clouds’ at face level, and prevents a person from being able to choose the safest direction when talking or coughing.
The best disease entry point for airborne viruses is the eyes, which have far less natural antiviral defenses than the mouth and nose. The mask gaps direct a stream of particles up and into the eyes.
Infectious particles collecting in a mask barrier leads to rebreathing contamination that would otherwise be expelled out into an environment where UV rays would destroy the virus, and more likely infection along a nasal brain nerve pathway — increasing a mask-wearer’s risk of infection.
Increased personal risk of infection directly translates into greater community risk, so anything that exposes the individual de facto exposes the community (rather than the idea that one is taking on some personal risk to protect others). The biggest thing any person can do to protect others is to protect themselves.
Governments have a spectacularly poor record of misinterpreting science and mismanaging public health policy, often with disasterous consequences. Every bureaucratic effort surrounding Covid has been marked by incompetence and error. Why should mask mandates be an exception to this trend?
Health care is an individual responsibility and a matter of personal body autonomy and choice. Individuals have a right to make their OWN decisions. The ‘public health’ should not allow government to violate the rights of healthy people.
Mask mandates do not correlate with reductions in cases, infections, or deaths anywhere in the world, irregardless of compliance. In short, there is no good evidence that they actually work (claims to support that they do can be shown to rest upon presupposition, theoretical modeling, and extremely weak correlation).
There exists decades of valid scientific research about mask efficacy, virtually all of which goes against the ideas undergirding mask mandates. No new studies disproving or overriding this existing science has been done.
Even if masks were shown to give some benefit (and there are a few limited circumstances in which they can), easily observable behaviors surrounding the way they are actually donned, worn, stored, and handled in real-world settings clearly shows that actual practice negates and undermines any potential benefit (and studies show this is true even among highly trained medical professionals.
MASKERS CANNOT PRODUCE A SINGLE CONCLUSIVE PIECE OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEIR CLAIM — THEY JUST APPEAL TO THEIR AUTHORITY, CITE THEIR OWN MANDATES, AND REFER TO STUDIES THAT USE THEIR OWN ASSUMPTIONS AS FOUNDATIONAL INPUTS.
”It’s true because we think it is, based on a statement we put out that says so!”
Included in this batch of info are links that disprove the ‘correlation’ claims including this latest Arizona ‘correlation’ “study”: https://thedonald.win/p/11Qkx3cYy0/cdcs-latest-arizona-mask-study-i/
STUDY LINKS, EXPLANATIONS, AND SOURCES OF MASK SCIENCE
Including:
https://thedonald.win/p/HEgcXddD/forcing-me-to-wear-political-sym/
Please present study showing that “my mask protects you.”
Any RCT will do.
If you send me a study showing that a physical barrier prevents spiddle, expect to be called an asshole.
but that's the primary way this type of viruses travels from person to person...
How many vectors of transmission are there?
Does the masks blocks aerosol particulates?
Does a mask prevent or simply improve?
Do you have any RCTs? Any?
Fauci is on record saying that the primary spread of any similar virus is symptomatic transmission
Right now the medical establishment has said that to beat a virus we need to treat every person we meet like they are sick. We need them to wear masks for us and stay away from us. What is the scientific basis for this guidance?
would point out that I disagree with that consensus and I don't think that's even a consensus.
still - would rather not wear a mask in store, but i put on a mask when seeing my 80+ year old grandparents. I sometimes get cough / sneeze that usually clears up in half a day and sometimes gets more serious. I can't really track each time I cough even when I consider myself health, so if it's even like -10% probability of transmission, i think it's worth it for those few hours when I interact with particularly vulnerable people.
You are more than welcome to do what you choose.
Passing emergency executive orders mandating something should have a higher bar than, “it might help.” Especially considering the way people demanded RCTs for HCQ. They literally banned it for lack of RCTs.
Saying that other people are responsible for your health is dangerous and wrong.
i was never on board with those mandates. I vaccinate against flu too and am anti-vax on government mandates or even coercive policies.
Bless you, fren
Much the same as your pants don't stop your farts from escaping.
Masks are only helpful in very specific circumstances and with proper use. As the other person said they should stay at home if sick. When you start saying wear a mask and it'll be fine people will go out when sick with the mask and boom.
If you have your wits about you and your head screwed on straight then it'll be fairly obvious in situations where you might want to wear a mask.
In many such situations people already often wear a mask such as preparing food.
Those people should just stay home
It's true. If you don't want to get sick, stay home. This has been done for years where leftists move into an area demand you conform to their beliefs instead of them learning to assimilate. This is literally what this country was founded on. We don't like the way you treat us, so we're leaving to find our own place where we have freedom to not try to fight you on everything you think we should be doing.