The term 'live virus' in virology is a little misleading. What it means is that it is capable of infecting, replicating itself, and spreading.
Viruses aren't really 'alive' per se because viruses don't metabolize and they require host cells and cellular components to fulfill their replication cycle. Viruses are kinda like parasitic robots.
Not all cells get infected by viruses. They have preference for cells that have components that help them to finish their life cycle, spread, and avoid detection.
Viruses are like programmed robots. You have to consider what they're programmed to do: Replicate and spread by any means necessary. So they take from their environment, turn things on and off in a cell to avoid detection, all kinds of things... some viruses can cause cancer but not all viruses do.
If you're a fan of terrain theory (which btw thanks for that - not really taught in grad school), then you're gonna wanna understand how the immune system responds to a virus. Germ vs terrain theories are saying viruses cause disease vs the state of the immune system causes disease. Both are true. There are virus mediated pathologies and immune mediated pathologies to various degrees on a cellular, tissue, and system level.
Its pretty complicated. Have you got 5 years? Lol...
I diverge from you a bit at the end. I believe the body produces the virus to clean the toxins, which explains the “parasitic robot” So when you see the “spreading” it’s actually cells producing the virus. And I believe that’s why viruses are pleomorphic. For example, you wouldn’t blame firefighters for the house burning down right? Guilty by association when they’re just trying to help clean the body. I’m not a virologist. I’m just fascinated by the subject. so this is just me finding a theory that Does a better job of explaining what I see in the real world than what CNN and the media tell me. I regularly am around sick people and never “catch” their virus/sickness/germs etc. whenever I’ve been sick it’s because I stayed up til 5 drinking and sniffing yay when it’s 5 degrees out in January with a t short waiting in line for some shit bar
But from your comment above, I believe injecting the virus into people is why you see people “getting a virus” Like how did the media and everyone know to start looking for Covid when only a handle full of people had died from it? Were their symptoms so deadly that the doctors could instantly tell it was for sure Covid? Or, was it actually because they introduced it into the yearly flu shot? And then months later they could start testing for it? Make no mistake, I think the hysteria of Covid was all planned. The reason they call it swine flu, or from a bat makes no sense. They just realized calling it Spanish flu or Chinese flu was “racist”. They “caught it” from being injected with it. Like we don’t have our dogs wearing masks. Because they can’t catch germs from humans
This book, “what really makes you ill” was really eye opening for me if you’re interested in a good read with LOTS of downtime 😂
Damn. I was halfway through my reply and backed out of the screen. Kmn. Take 2.
This is a lot to unpack.
Not sure what you mean by "body produces virus to cleanse the toxins" Firstly, viruses and toxins are two different types of entities. Second, the cells of the body don't choose to make viruses. Viruses hijack cellular machinery and components to self-reproduce and spread.
Viral spreading is virus mediated, not cell mediated. Again, hijacking. Different viruses employ different mechanisms. Sadly, my examples and analogies were lost. I'm very upset lol
Not sure what processes you're associating viral pleiomorphism with.
Your "conspiracy theories" are a bit more conspiracy than science. I've got my tinfoil hat on, don't worry. But you can release, spread, report on a virus on a coordinated manner without directly injecting people with covid via a flu shot. The reason that doesn't fly can be demonstrated by the length of the transmission cycle of the virus between individuals and length of life cycle within the host, case incidences not correlating with flu shots, the tests that can differentiate (when done correctly) between viral particles currently in the body vs signs of a past infection due to antibodies.
Crap, where was I... covid hysteria wad planned, I agree
The bat and swine designations come from whatever natural animal host the virus came from prior to jumping into humans, e.g. being able to become infectious to humans.
Yes, your dog can catch germs from humans. And people catch shit from animals all the time. Cats, bats, and rats are notorious for transmitting diseases to humans. But nobidy gives a shit about dogs catching a cold. Nobody should give a shit about people catching a cold. We have an immune system that has adapted to respond efficiently to viral hijackers over time.
I recommend Murray's Medical Microbiology, Janeway's Immunobiology, and Parham's Immune System. Peter Parham is a genius when it comes to his work with MHC molecules and the co-evolution of human populations with viruses.
I’m just going to preface and say everything you just listed did nothing to convince me that germs and Viruses are contagious. With that being said, I enjoy the topic so I appreciate your response.
1 I don’t think I implied viruses and toxins were the same. I said that cells produce viruses to eliminate the toxins from the body. They’ve gone by many names, but microzymas is one of the first terms given
“ Bacteria are non-toxic, and non-virulent as long as body secretions and excretions are normal. When toxemia exists, that is, when metabolic wastes accumulate in the system in excess, causing the secretions and excretions of the body to become abnormal and poisonous, a non-pathogenic bacterium can turn into a so-called pathogenic one simply by feeding on toxic wastes. ” Dr Virginia Vetrano
^ I have a bunch of similar quotes that explain a similar mechanism that exists.
2 Let’s say that point number 2 is true. I’m ok with being wrong. But why is it that no viruses have fulfilled all of Koch’s postulates? You say viral spreading is viral mediated and not cell mediated, but we already see headlines saying after you’ve “had Covid twice” you’re no longer contagious. Or the “Covid with asymptotic symptoms” phenomenon
3 I don’t think I tried to associate any processes with pleomorphism. I should have branched that thought into a different point. My point to pleomorphic viruses is that it explains why this “year’s flu is worse than last year’s flu” propaganda. It’s a flu, but are expressed differently depending on the environment
4 It’s not a conspiracy theory. There are plenty of scientists who believe this, but clearly not a majority. That’s why it’s called terrain theory. And why I prefaced by saying I don’t believe germ theory
“... report on a virus on a coordinated manner without directly injecting people with covid via a flu shot.”
I’m not trying to prove Covid alone was injected into people and why it exists. But it’s an explanation for why the polio found in the US is different than the polio in the “wild” in tribes that do not have access to vaccines. Just as you confirmed, a virus test exists to test the anti-bodies. Which are used in the shot
6 and 7 Similar to number 2. I’m not aware of any mechanism that allows for “catching” something from animals. I’d be happy for evidence of the contrary since it’s apparently so common. I’ve never caught a flu or cold from any animal I’ve ever owned in life. And I’m 30. That’s a long time to be around animals and not catch a cold from even one animal. And I let those fuckers lick my face after licking their asses. Sure, catch some fleas, or maybe you accidentally touch their poop and then you get an infection. Maybe even the squirrel with rabies bites you. But I’m not aware of any situation in which I can catch a cold from a dog walking by me from breathing their air exhaled from their nose.
8 thanks I’ll look into those
“... molecules and the co-evolution of human populations with viruses.” <—— pleomorphic viruses
Like I said, I appreciate your response. It fascinates me. But there’s absolutely 0 chance I’ll ever concede on my “conspiracy theory” when there is plenty of research supporting terrain theory. I believe Galileo was even mocked for not believing the earth was the center of the universe at one point. Now he gets the final laugh from his grave and his science is “accepted”
Oh, I'm not saying that terrain theory is a conspiracy theory. Don't get me wrong.... thats why I tried to break it up into sections to avoid misunderstandings haha...
I was being flippant about calling it a conspiracy theory when referring to how covid fiasco has come about because that's what anyone is going to say when you mention a global cooperation to create, release, monitor, and report on a "novel" coronavirus. I fully believe that has happened and it can be done and its obviously quite easy to do. The mechanism of that happening is where we differ.
I haven't seen evidence to support the transmission of covid directly by injection into individual. We simply don't have the logistics set up to do it. We barely have the logistics to crank out these vaccines and distribute them at this literal warp speed that we're seeing now. Plants have been built in the past year just to manufacture enough vials to hold the vaccines that will be coming out soon. We didn't have that capability in the past. Thats just one obvious example that I deal with in my work capacity.
I'm not sure what you're saying about antibodies - are you suggesting that pharma companies manufactured covid specific antibodies and injected them into people under the guise of a "flu shot"? Because the logistics of that would be a nightmare and nobody would greenlight that on cost alone.
What else.... pets. The reason you don't get viruses from your pets is because our immune systems have adapted to fight off most things we have exposed it to and trained it to fight. Also, viruses like to be comfortable and they're very efficient. They will find a host and if it gives them the best environment for replicating, they stay there. There's no pressure to move into another host and try again. This is written like viruses have intent, which they really don't. Watch out for bacteria tho.... dogs lick their butts and cat poop is gross. You're more likely to get some gnarly bacterial infections than a cold from your pets.
The reason you don't get a cold unless you're dicking around in the cold and drinking is because you've fucked up your immune system, lowering its ability to fight off infection. Think of it like.... if Palestinians are shooting missiles into Israel every minute of every day, but you're asleep in the middle of the country, you're not going to know the weapon shield is actively eliminating those missiles before they hit you. But if some dumbass lowers the defense barrier, some missiles will make it through and wreck your house or your life. Depends on how compromised the shield is and what missile was fired to gauge what happens to your house or person.
What else.... polio... polio is a classic example where we study the difference between types of vaccinations. Oral polio virus vaccine is a live virus that has been attenuated (weakened) to expose the body to the virus in the hopes that the immune system can be trained to fight the wild virus, but the weakened version is not supposed to cause illness. It does. Its fucking horrible. Thats why we don't use it in the US. Don't ask me why anyone else uses it... its more effective but way less safe than the killed virus vaccine. Seems like a good place to interject that Bill Gates is a criminal. The other form of polio is a killed virus vaccine that is injected. Still capable of training the immune system, but not to the same extent that a live virus does.
When the immune system reponds to live viruses (e.g. those that are actively replicating themselves and spreading in the host), immune cells "see" viral signals that are different and at a greater quantity than say, if you inject a dead virus. If 1 virus has like 5 signals that the immune system recognizes, responds to, and remembers, and you inject 10 dead viruses into a host, then you have 50 chances a host cell with find and react to those 50 moities. However, if you are infected with 10 live viruses, those 5 signals are reporduced each time the virus replicates. So if 1 virus makes 10 babies, and those 10 babies go to the next cell and make 10 babies, etc, then you'll have 5 signals*10 viruses(1)*10 babies(2)*10 grandbabies(3) etc... (number) being subsequent cells infected... so the immune system is more likely to see and respond to that. It just has to do it before the virus kills too many cells or makes too many babies where it overwhelms the body and kills it.
This is a lot lol... im not even going to touch antigenic shift and antigenic drift in influenza. You're gonna have to read about it 😆
The term 'live virus' in virology is a little misleading. What it means is that it is capable of infecting, replicating itself, and spreading.
Viruses aren't really 'alive' per se because viruses don't metabolize and they require host cells and cellular components to fulfill their replication cycle. Viruses are kinda like parasitic robots.
Given that explanation, what would happen when all, or a majority, of a person's cells "become the virus" after the introduction of the mRNA?
Would they metastasize like cancer and start to destroy the "host"?
No experience in the field of virology, wanting to learn.
No, cells don't become the virus.
Not all cells get infected by viruses. They have preference for cells that have components that help them to finish their life cycle, spread, and avoid detection.
Viruses are like programmed robots. You have to consider what they're programmed to do: Replicate and spread by any means necessary. So they take from their environment, turn things on and off in a cell to avoid detection, all kinds of things... some viruses can cause cancer but not all viruses do.
If you're a fan of terrain theory (which btw thanks for that - not really taught in grad school), then you're gonna wanna understand how the immune system responds to a virus. Germ vs terrain theories are saying viruses cause disease vs the state of the immune system causes disease. Both are true. There are virus mediated pathologies and immune mediated pathologies to various degrees on a cellular, tissue, and system level.
Its pretty complicated. Have you got 5 years? Lol...
Ok that’s a fair clarification
I diverge from you a bit at the end. I believe the body produces the virus to clean the toxins, which explains the “parasitic robot” So when you see the “spreading” it’s actually cells producing the virus. And I believe that’s why viruses are pleomorphic. For example, you wouldn’t blame firefighters for the house burning down right? Guilty by association when they’re just trying to help clean the body. I’m not a virologist. I’m just fascinated by the subject. so this is just me finding a theory that Does a better job of explaining what I see in the real world than what CNN and the media tell me. I regularly am around sick people and never “catch” their virus/sickness/germs etc. whenever I’ve been sick it’s because I stayed up til 5 drinking and sniffing yay when it’s 5 degrees out in January with a t short waiting in line for some shit bar
But from your comment above, I believe injecting the virus into people is why you see people “getting a virus” Like how did the media and everyone know to start looking for Covid when only a handle full of people had died from it? Were their symptoms so deadly that the doctors could instantly tell it was for sure Covid? Or, was it actually because they introduced it into the yearly flu shot? And then months later they could start testing for it? Make no mistake, I think the hysteria of Covid was all planned. The reason they call it swine flu, or from a bat makes no sense. They just realized calling it Spanish flu or Chinese flu was “racist”. They “caught it” from being injected with it. Like we don’t have our dogs wearing masks. Because they can’t catch germs from humans
This book, “what really makes you ill” was really eye opening for me if you’re interested in a good read with LOTS of downtime 😂
Damn. I was halfway through my reply and backed out of the screen. Kmn. Take 2.
This is a lot to unpack.
Not sure what you mean by "body produces virus to cleanse the toxins" Firstly, viruses and toxins are two different types of entities. Second, the cells of the body don't choose to make viruses. Viruses hijack cellular machinery and components to self-reproduce and spread.
Viral spreading is virus mediated, not cell mediated. Again, hijacking. Different viruses employ different mechanisms. Sadly, my examples and analogies were lost. I'm very upset lol
Not sure what processes you're associating viral pleiomorphism with.
Your "conspiracy theories" are a bit more conspiracy than science. I've got my tinfoil hat on, don't worry. But you can release, spread, report on a virus on a coordinated manner without directly injecting people with covid via a flu shot. The reason that doesn't fly can be demonstrated by the length of the transmission cycle of the virus between individuals and length of life cycle within the host, case incidences not correlating with flu shots, the tests that can differentiate (when done correctly) between viral particles currently in the body vs signs of a past infection due to antibodies.
Crap, where was I... covid hysteria wad planned, I agree
The bat and swine designations come from whatever natural animal host the virus came from prior to jumping into humans, e.g. being able to become infectious to humans.
Yes, your dog can catch germs from humans. And people catch shit from animals all the time. Cats, bats, and rats are notorious for transmitting diseases to humans. But nobidy gives a shit about dogs catching a cold. Nobody should give a shit about people catching a cold. We have an immune system that has adapted to respond efficiently to viral hijackers over time.
I recommend Murray's Medical Microbiology, Janeway's Immunobiology, and Parham's Immune System. Peter Parham is a genius when it comes to his work with MHC molecules and the co-evolution of human populations with viruses.
I’m just going to preface and say everything you just listed did nothing to convince me that germs and Viruses are contagious. With that being said, I enjoy the topic so I appreciate your response.
1 I don’t think I implied viruses and toxins were the same. I said that cells produce viruses to eliminate the toxins from the body. They’ve gone by many names, but microzymas is one of the first terms given
“ Bacteria are non-toxic, and non-virulent as long as body secretions and excretions are normal. When toxemia exists, that is, when metabolic wastes accumulate in the system in excess, causing the secretions and excretions of the body to become abnormal and poisonous, a non-pathogenic bacterium can turn into a so-called pathogenic one simply by feeding on toxic wastes. ” Dr Virginia Vetrano
^ I have a bunch of similar quotes that explain a similar mechanism that exists.
2 Let’s say that point number 2 is true. I’m ok with being wrong. But why is it that no viruses have fulfilled all of Koch’s postulates? You say viral spreading is viral mediated and not cell mediated, but we already see headlines saying after you’ve “had Covid twice” you’re no longer contagious. Or the “Covid with asymptotic symptoms” phenomenon
3 I don’t think I tried to associate any processes with pleomorphism. I should have branched that thought into a different point. My point to pleomorphic viruses is that it explains why this “year’s flu is worse than last year’s flu” propaganda. It’s a flu, but are expressed differently depending on the environment
4 It’s not a conspiracy theory. There are plenty of scientists who believe this, but clearly not a majority. That’s why it’s called terrain theory. And why I prefaced by saying I don’t believe germ theory
“... report on a virus on a coordinated manner without directly injecting people with covid via a flu shot.”
I’m not trying to prove Covid alone was injected into people and why it exists. But it’s an explanation for why the polio found in the US is different than the polio in the “wild” in tribes that do not have access to vaccines. Just as you confirmed, a virus test exists to test the anti-bodies. Which are used in the shot
6 and 7 Similar to number 2. I’m not aware of any mechanism that allows for “catching” something from animals. I’d be happy for evidence of the contrary since it’s apparently so common. I’ve never caught a flu or cold from any animal I’ve ever owned in life. And I’m 30. That’s a long time to be around animals and not catch a cold from even one animal. And I let those fuckers lick my face after licking their asses. Sure, catch some fleas, or maybe you accidentally touch their poop and then you get an infection. Maybe even the squirrel with rabies bites you. But I’m not aware of any situation in which I can catch a cold from a dog walking by me from breathing their air exhaled from their nose.
8 thanks I’ll look into those
“... molecules and the co-evolution of human populations with viruses.” <—— pleomorphic viruses
Like I said, I appreciate your response. It fascinates me. But there’s absolutely 0 chance I’ll ever concede on my “conspiracy theory” when there is plenty of research supporting terrain theory. I believe Galileo was even mocked for not believing the earth was the center of the universe at one point. Now he gets the final laugh from his grave and his science is “accepted”
Oh, I'm not saying that terrain theory is a conspiracy theory. Don't get me wrong.... thats why I tried to break it up into sections to avoid misunderstandings haha...
I was being flippant about calling it a conspiracy theory when referring to how covid fiasco has come about because that's what anyone is going to say when you mention a global cooperation to create, release, monitor, and report on a "novel" coronavirus. I fully believe that has happened and it can be done and its obviously quite easy to do. The mechanism of that happening is where we differ.
I haven't seen evidence to support the transmission of covid directly by injection into individual. We simply don't have the logistics set up to do it. We barely have the logistics to crank out these vaccines and distribute them at this literal warp speed that we're seeing now. Plants have been built in the past year just to manufacture enough vials to hold the vaccines that will be coming out soon. We didn't have that capability in the past. Thats just one obvious example that I deal with in my work capacity.
I'm not sure what you're saying about antibodies - are you suggesting that pharma companies manufactured covid specific antibodies and injected them into people under the guise of a "flu shot"? Because the logistics of that would be a nightmare and nobody would greenlight that on cost alone.
What else.... pets. The reason you don't get viruses from your pets is because our immune systems have adapted to fight off most things we have exposed it to and trained it to fight. Also, viruses like to be comfortable and they're very efficient. They will find a host and if it gives them the best environment for replicating, they stay there. There's no pressure to move into another host and try again. This is written like viruses have intent, which they really don't. Watch out for bacteria tho.... dogs lick their butts and cat poop is gross. You're more likely to get some gnarly bacterial infections than a cold from your pets.
The reason you don't get a cold unless you're dicking around in the cold and drinking is because you've fucked up your immune system, lowering its ability to fight off infection. Think of it like.... if Palestinians are shooting missiles into Israel every minute of every day, but you're asleep in the middle of the country, you're not going to know the weapon shield is actively eliminating those missiles before they hit you. But if some dumbass lowers the defense barrier, some missiles will make it through and wreck your house or your life. Depends on how compromised the shield is and what missile was fired to gauge what happens to your house or person.
What else.... polio... polio is a classic example where we study the difference between types of vaccinations. Oral polio virus vaccine is a live virus that has been attenuated (weakened) to expose the body to the virus in the hopes that the immune system can be trained to fight the wild virus, but the weakened version is not supposed to cause illness. It does. Its fucking horrible. Thats why we don't use it in the US. Don't ask me why anyone else uses it... its more effective but way less safe than the killed virus vaccine. Seems like a good place to interject that Bill Gates is a criminal. The other form of polio is a killed virus vaccine that is injected. Still capable of training the immune system, but not to the same extent that a live virus does.
When the immune system reponds to live viruses (e.g. those that are actively replicating themselves and spreading in the host), immune cells "see" viral signals that are different and at a greater quantity than say, if you inject a dead virus. If 1 virus has like 5 signals that the immune system recognizes, responds to, and remembers, and you inject 10 dead viruses into a host, then you have 50 chances a host cell with find and react to those 50 moities. However, if you are infected with 10 live viruses, those 5 signals are reporduced each time the virus replicates. So if 1 virus makes 10 babies, and those 10 babies go to the next cell and make 10 babies, etc, then you'll have 5 signals*10 viruses(1)*10 babies(2)*10 grandbabies(3) etc... (number) being subsequent cells infected... so the immune system is more likely to see and respond to that. It just has to do it before the virus kills too many cells or makes too many babies where it overwhelms the body and kills it.
This is a lot lol... im not even going to touch antigenic shift and antigenic drift in influenza. You're gonna have to read about it 😆