Clearly Elijah doesn't know how vaccines work because this is apples and oranges.
95% effective at preventing you from getting it vs 99% chance you'll survive if you do get it. A proper comparison needs to show how likely a random unvaccinated person is to catch it. Obviously a vaccinated person should be at an even lower risk of death because they should have a lower risk of catching it.
Now if the vaccine had a 5% chance of killing you then yea, he'd have a point.
EDIT: Yes, yes alright. I know a vaccine doesn't "prevent" you from getting covid. It was a simplified explanation to get a point across.
The vaccine has a high% chance of causing serious adverse side effects. So instead of "maybe" getting covid, you will almost certainly be harmed by the vaccine.
Luke Hutchison, a 43-year-old computational biologist who participated in the Moderna trials, told Science magazine that he endured an "unbearable" 102 degree fever after getting an injection of the vaccine.
"I started shaking. I had cold and hot rushes... I was sitting by the phone all night long thinking: 'Should I call 911?'" Hutchison said of his symptoms, which were gone after about 12 hours. "Nobody prepared me for the severity of this."
You say that people will almost certainly be harmed by the vaccine, but then provide an example of 1 single person getting a fever from it, and as u/edxzxz pointed out, who knows if he even got the actual vaccine?
You need to present some real data about side effect incidence to make the claim "almost certainly will be harmed".
Plus auto immune diseases, death, encephalitis, and more. Straight from the FDA docs about the vaccine.
Anyone who takes this vaccine because of a common cold is an absolute imbecile. Luckily the vaccine will fuck them up or kill them outright so we don't have to deal with their stupid sheep mentality any more.
Exactly, sheep are pumping their bodies full of antibodies, and then get surprised when they have autoimmune diseases. I give up tho, you can’t fix stupid
Everyone who participated in the trials were exposed to china flu, only half got the vaccine, the other half got a placebo. Maybe Hutchinson there got the placebo? I know lots of people insist you can't get the disease from the vaccine, but my own experience with the flu shot is that the one and only time in my life I got the flu shot, I got the flu immediately. I haven't gotten a flu shot in over 20 years, I haven't gotten the flu during that time.
Same! My job that year required me to get a flu vaccine to enter ORs and I had the worst flu I had ever had for 6 full days. I also had a tetanus shot and a few weeks later developed shingles on my finger. I hadn’t had more than 2 vaccines in my adult life and I had severe reactions to them. This vaccine should be optional like all others
To be fair, the flu shot does NOT give you the flu, so your experience is likely just an unfortunate series of events where you were exposed to the flu, then some short time after you got a shot and you came down with it before your body could develop an immune response. From what I recall it takes a week or two for your body to create antibodies once you get a vaccine.
But what you get injected with is dead viruses that cannot infect you - in the case of the flu shot.
In the case of the Coof shot, it's different as I understand it, it's not dead covid viruses, it's RNA strains instead, or something like that.
But my experience with flu shot is that I get one every year in early October and one year out of the last decade, I caught the flu, but nobody else in my house did.
idk, but I have gotten the flu zero times in the past 10 years to your one time, you've gotten the shot 10 times and I have gotten it zero times in that time span. I have 4 kids that go to 3 different schools, their mother is a grade school teacher - so I'd assume I'd be a prime candidate for the flu, but nope. The flu shot is bullshit - they guess which of the multitude of strains will be prevalent that year, and almost always guess wrong. They want you to get it every year anyway, because 75 cents goes into the vaccine injury compensation fund for every flu shot - got to keep that giant slush fund solvent, even if it means thousands of people being permanently disabled due to SIRVA injuries resulting from drug store clerks playing doctor. I'd urge you to reconsider getting flu shots every year, but if you insist on that, do yourself a favor and do not let anyone other than an actual medical doctor administer the shot - and even then, if the dr. is sitting, you sit, if the dr. is standing, you stand up for the shot. That's how you avoid a SIRVA injury.
Depending how it works, (I understand there are a few different mechanisms), the vaccine may be an inactive version of the virus to train your body into fighting the real thing if it comes along. It seems reasonably possible to me that some peoples' immune systems are going to see this inactive strain as a real threat and invoke the normal immune fighting response.
I believe there have also been the occasional issues with vaccines not being as inactive as they thought.
This is not how vaccines work. They do not prevent you from getting it. The virus is a PART of the vaccine, which allows your immune system to battle on a controlled front and helps build antibodies. Elijah's statement is correct. The vaccine may help some people be prepared should they contract the virus, but they also come with downsides-such as getting the virus when you may never have otherwise.
An mRNA virus will not have that downside of "getting the virus you wouldn't have otherwise" because it's not a live or weakened virus vaccine. It only contains mRNA for a portion of the virus, but not enough to be the actual infectious virus.
That said, I'm hearing that this vaccine has a fairly high incidence of flu-like side-effects from taking it, so much so that doctors are being coached to ensure that people come back for shot 2 because shot 1 is so bad a lot of people won't want to come back for shot 2.
Good point. Do you happen to know why patients are showing symptoms? I always assumed it was a result of a temporarily weakened immune system as a result of the vaccine, but I am not positive.
The whole point of a vaccine is to trigger an immune response. For some people, that immune response will mimic the actual disease, but it's less severe.
Because basically ... the vaccine starts an infection ... The difference is in conventional vaccines ... THE BODY CAN produce antibodies because the antigen is injected as part of what is in the vaccine ... in THE NEW VACCINE your cells have to produce the antigen and only then Produce the antibodies .
Now think about it ... IF an injection can hijack your cells to produce a certain molecule "antigen" ..
Probably the other way around actually. Either the vaccine itself or one of the ingredients in it provokes a strong immune response that makes you feel sick.
Most symptoms of sickness are actually your body responding to the virus, and not necessarily the virus itself. They're physical systems that are separate from the immune system but take place to slow down, physically remove (sneezing, coughing, runny nose) or disrupt the spread of the virus while your immune system mounts its actual response.
Clearly Elijah doesn't know how vaccines work because this is apples and oranges.
95% effective at preventing you from getting it vs 99% chance you'll survive if you do get it. A proper comparison needs to show how likely a random unvaccinated person is to catch it. Obviously a vaccinated person should be at an even lower risk of death because they should have a lower risk of catching it.
Now if the vaccine had a 5% chance of killing you then yea, he'd have a point.
EDIT: Yes, yes alright. I know a vaccine doesn't "prevent" you from getting covid. It was a simplified explanation to get a point across.
The vaccine has a high% chance of causing serious adverse side effects. So instead of "maybe" getting covid, you will almost certainly be harmed by the vaccine.
You say that people will almost certainly be harmed by the vaccine, but then provide an example of 1 single person getting a fever from it, and as u/edxzxz pointed out, who knows if he even got the actual vaccine?
You need to present some real data about side effect incidence to make the claim "almost certainly will be harmed".
Plus auto immune diseases, death, encephalitis, and more. Straight from the FDA docs about the vaccine.
Anyone who takes this vaccine because of a common cold is an absolute imbecile. Luckily the vaccine will fuck them up or kill them outright so we don't have to deal with their stupid sheep mentality any more.
Exactly, sheep are pumping their bodies full of antibodies, and then get surprised when they have autoimmune diseases. I give up tho, you can’t fix stupid
Everyone who participated in the trials were exposed to china flu, only half got the vaccine, the other half got a placebo. Maybe Hutchinson there got the placebo? I know lots of people insist you can't get the disease from the vaccine, but my own experience with the flu shot is that the one and only time in my life I got the flu shot, I got the flu immediately. I haven't gotten a flu shot in over 20 years, I haven't gotten the flu during that time.
Your experience is common.
Anecdotal evidence in its entirety that's also based on misinformation.
Same! My job that year required me to get a flu vaccine to enter ORs and I had the worst flu I had ever had for 6 full days. I also had a tetanus shot and a few weeks later developed shingles on my finger. I hadn’t had more than 2 vaccines in my adult life and I had severe reactions to them. This vaccine should be optional like all others
To be fair, the flu shot does NOT give you the flu, so your experience is likely just an unfortunate series of events where you were exposed to the flu, then some short time after you got a shot and you came down with it before your body could develop an immune response. From what I recall it takes a week or two for your body to create antibodies once you get a vaccine.
But what you get injected with is dead viruses that cannot infect you - in the case of the flu shot.
In the case of the Coof shot, it's different as I understand it, it's not dead covid viruses, it's RNA strains instead, or something like that.
But my experience with flu shot is that I get one every year in early October and one year out of the last decade, I caught the flu, but nobody else in my house did.
idk, but I have gotten the flu zero times in the past 10 years to your one time, you've gotten the shot 10 times and I have gotten it zero times in that time span. I have 4 kids that go to 3 different schools, their mother is a grade school teacher - so I'd assume I'd be a prime candidate for the flu, but nope. The flu shot is bullshit - they guess which of the multitude of strains will be prevalent that year, and almost always guess wrong. They want you to get it every year anyway, because 75 cents goes into the vaccine injury compensation fund for every flu shot - got to keep that giant slush fund solvent, even if it means thousands of people being permanently disabled due to SIRVA injuries resulting from drug store clerks playing doctor. I'd urge you to reconsider getting flu shots every year, but if you insist on that, do yourself a favor and do not let anyone other than an actual medical doctor administer the shot - and even then, if the dr. is sitting, you sit, if the dr. is standing, you stand up for the shot. That's how you avoid a SIRVA injury.
Just bad luck.
It's just a cold hard fact that vaccines can't actually give you the disease.
Depending how it works, (I understand there are a few different mechanisms), the vaccine may be an inactive version of the virus to train your body into fighting the real thing if it comes along. It seems reasonably possible to me that some peoples' immune systems are going to see this inactive strain as a real threat and invoke the normal immune fighting response.
I believe there have also been the occasional issues with vaccines not being as inactive as they thought.
So side affects that aren't even that bad? Come on if that guy said covid gave him those symptoms, you'd laugh and say it was nothing to worry about
This is why I like TD.W, we call out BS, even if it's on 'our side'. A quick scan of the comments usually shows if something is debonked or old news.
This is not how vaccines work. They do not prevent you from getting it. The virus is a PART of the vaccine, which allows your immune system to battle on a controlled front and helps build antibodies. Elijah's statement is correct. The vaccine may help some people be prepared should they contract the virus, but they also come with downsides-such as getting the virus when you may never have otherwise.
An mRNA virus will not have that downside of "getting the virus you wouldn't have otherwise" because it's not a live or weakened virus vaccine. It only contains mRNA for a portion of the virus, but not enough to be the actual infectious virus.
That said, I'm hearing that this vaccine has a fairly high incidence of flu-like side-effects from taking it, so much so that doctors are being coached to ensure that people come back for shot 2 because shot 1 is so bad a lot of people won't want to come back for shot 2.
I just read (and can't find it again, sorry): people over 55 actually have a lower incidence of side effect from the vaccine.
Yes, and this is not anything new.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1335489612769157122
Good point. Do you happen to know why patients are showing symptoms? I always assumed it was a result of a temporarily weakened immune system as a result of the vaccine, but I am not positive.
The whole point of a vaccine is to trigger an immune response. For some people, that immune response will mimic the actual disease, but it's less severe.
https://www.breakthroughs.com/advancing-medical-research/what-makes-rna-vaccine-different-conventional-vaccine
Because basically ... the vaccine starts an infection ... The difference is in conventional vaccines ... THE BODY CAN produce antibodies because the antigen is injected as part of what is in the vaccine ... in THE NEW VACCINE your cells have to produce the antigen and only then Produce the antibodies .
Now think about it ... IF an injection can hijack your cells to produce a certain molecule "antigen" ..
This RNA vaccines are scary powerful stuff ...
Probably the other way around actually. Either the vaccine itself or one of the ingredients in it provokes a strong immune response that makes you feel sick.
Most symptoms of sickness are actually your body responding to the virus, and not necessarily the virus itself. They're physical systems that are separate from the immune system but take place to slow down, physically remove (sneezing, coughing, runny nose) or disrupt the spread of the virus while your immune system mounts its actual response.
The mRNA vaccines do not contain the virus, they only contain the coronavirus spike protein. You can't get covid from the vaccine.
Without the IMMUNE SYSTEM the VACCINE IS 0% effective.
It's a funny tweet, but this.