posted ago by ListenCarefully ago by ListenCarefully +7 / -5

The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. — Psalm 5:5

Here it states that the Lord hates something. Whatever the person, place or thing that is, it's clearly stated.

We know that it's not referring to places or things, but people, since the verse says "You hate all who do iniquity."

We also know that whoever these people are, all of them are hated since the verse says "You hate all who do iniquity."

So then who are all of these people? Who does God love and who does He hate?

This is where Jacob and Esau come into play. Before Rebekah birthed them, this is what was said to her, and this is what was said of them.

The Lord said to her, “Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger.” When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. — Genesis 25:23-24

Not only did Rebekah physically birth twins, she spiritually birthed two peoples, with each living in two spiritual nations.

Jacob represents the spiritual nation of Israel, and Esau represents the spiritual nation of Edom. Proof of this is found here in the following verses:

God said to him, “Your name is Jacob; You shall no longer be called Jacob, But Israel shall be your name.” Thus He called him Israel. — Genesis 35:10

and Esau said to Jacob, “Please let me have a swallow of that red stuff there, for I am famished.” Therefore his name was called Edom. — Genesis 25:30

So Esau lived in the hill country of Seir; Esau is Edom. — Genesis 36:8

What does it say about God's love and hatred regarding Jacob and Esau, and thus Israel and Edom - the two peoples within these two nations that Jacob and Esau spiritually represent? Read carefully the following passage.

The oracle of the word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi. “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob; but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.” Though Edom says, “We have been beaten down, but we will return and build up the ruins”; thus says the Lord of hosts, “They may build, but I will tear down; and men will call them the wicked territory, and the people toward whom the Lord is indignant forever.” Your eyes will see this and you will say, “The Lord be magnified beyond the border of Israel!” — Malachi 1:1-5

A message to Israel, that is, spiritual Israel. God has loved them, just as He loves Jacob, who allegorically represents them spiritually. Israel, according to God, responds with "How?" Since they argue that Esau is Jacob's brother. They argue this because they understand that God in fact does hate Esau. They question His love for them, that is, spiritual Israel (that is, prior to their conversions), based on the fact Jacob is Esau's twin. But the Lord responds back, and confirms His love for Jacob, despite even the fact Jacob is Esau's twin brother.

The Lord then goes on to talk about Esau, calling him Edom, because Esau is Edom and Esau spiritually represents Edom. He is also called the father of the Edomites in Genesis 36:9. That is, he is their spiritual father. Two nations and two peoples came out of Rebekah's womb. The Israelites and the Edomites (spiritual people, not physical).

Look at the passage in Malachi again. God says He has made Esau's mountains a desolation. Esau was actually given a mountain as a possession from God Himself. It is again, a spiritual mountain.

do not provoke them, for I will not give you any of their land, even as little as a footstep because I have given Mount Seir to Esau as a possession. — Deuteronomy 2:5

This mountain is located in Edom, it is a desolation and a place for jackals, those whom God hates. Edom is a wicked territory, and the Edomites are a people whom the Lord is indignant toward forever, meaning throughout all of eternity. Esau represents those people whom God will not save. He will not choose any of them, and does not love them.

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CenTexKid 0 points ago +1 / -1

I think of the platitude "hate the sin love the sinner." God certainly hates sin.

He is also not a calm, passive God. I think that modern Christianity plays down the wrathful, vengeful, angry God. See "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" Jonathan Edwards, 1741. He has a right to be angered, as well as saddened, by our falling short of what He asks of us.

However, a commentary on another passage in Psalms suggests that "As "hate" is used here, we should not conclude that God is speaking of a virulent and malignant passion that desires to destroy the life of another. The words "loathe" or "grieved," as modern translations use, defines and limits the hatred to deep sorrow for or strong disapproval of the conduct of those under discussion." (https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/16261/eVerseID/16262)

I have never considered that God could hate some of His creation. It makes sense, though. My only hesitation is that He loved the world enough to save us, certainly He loves us all. At the end of the day we're creatures of limited understanding trying to make sense of that which we cannot.

I realize that this comment is not really making a point. It's more of a ramble as I think about this. I would love a response though.

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ListenCarefully [S] -4 points ago +1 / -5

I'm not sure where hate the sin love the sinner came from or it's origin but in Psalm 5:5 it says "hate all who do iniquity.* Which means the who refers to people (like Esau) and not things (Esau's sins). God does hate sin as well, but here it refers to all of the people who do iniquity.

A lot of the prophecy in the OT begins to make much more sense when this is believed. For example, continuing off the fact that Esau is Edom, and Mount Seir is Esau's mountain, we can go to Ezekiel 35.

Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir, and prophesy against it and say to it, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am against you, Mount Seir, And I will stretch out My hand against you And make you a desolation and a waste. “I will lay waste your cities And you will become a desolation. Then you will know that I am the Lord. Because you have had everlasting enmity and have delivered the sons of Israel to the power of the sword at the time of their calamity, at the time of the punishment of the end, therefore as I live,” declares the Lord God, “I will give you over to bloodshed, and bloodshed will pursue you; since you have not hated bloodshed, therefore bloodshed will pursue you. I will make Mount Seir a waste and a desolation and I will cut off from it the one who passes through and returns. I will fill its mountains with its slain; on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain by the sword will fall. I will make you an everlasting desolation and your cities will not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord. “Because you have said, ‘These two nations and these two lands will be mine, and we will possess them,’ although the Lord was there, therefore as I live,” declares the Lord God, “I will deal with you according to your anger and according to your envy which you showed because of your hatred against them; so I will make Myself known among them when I judge you. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have heard all your revilings which you have spoken against the mountains of Israel saying, ‘They are laid desolate; they are given to us for food.’ And you have spoken arrogantly against Me and have multiplied your words against Me; I have heard it.” Thus says the Lord God, “As all the earth rejoices, I will make you a desolation. As you rejoiced over the inheritance of the house of Israel because it was desolate, so I will do to you. You will be a desolation, O Mount Seir, and all Edom, all of it. Then they will know that I am the Lord.”’ — Ezekiel 35:1-15

Then this one in Obediah.

The vision of Obadiah.Thus says the Lord God concerning Edom⁠— We have heard a report from the Lord, And an envoy has been sent among the nations saying, “Arise and let us go against her for battle”⁠— “Behold, I will make you small among the nations; You are greatly despised. “The arrogance of your heart has deceived you, You who live in the clefts of the rock, In the loftiness of your dwelling place, Who say in your heart, ‘Who will bring me down to earth?’ “Though you build high like the eagle, Though you set your nest among the stars, From there I will bring you down,” declares the Lord. “If thieves came to you, If robbers by night⁠— O how you will be ruined!⁠— Would they not steal only until they had enough? If grape gatherers came to you, Would they not leave some gleanings? “O how Esau will be ransacked, And his hidden treasures searched out! “All the men allied with you Will send you forth to the border, And the men at peace with you Will deceive you and overpower you. They who eat your bread Will set an ambush for you. (There is no understanding in him.) “Will I not on that day,” declares the Lord, “Destroy wise men from Edom And understanding from the mountain of Esau? “Then your mighty men will be dismayed, O Teman, So that everyone may be cut off from the mountain of Esau by slaughter. “Because of violence to your brother Jacob, You will be covered with shame, And you will be cut off forever. “On the day that you stood aloof, On the day that strangers carried off his wealth, And foreigners entered his gate And cast lots for Jerusalem⁠— You too were as one of them. “Do not gloat over your brother’s day, The day of his misfortune. And do not rejoice over the sons of Judah In the day of their destruction; Yes, do not boast In the day of their distress. “Do not enter the gate of My people In the day of their disaster. Yes, you, do not gloat over their calamity In the day of their disaster. And do not loot their wealth In the day of their disaster. “Do not stand at the fork of the road To cut down their fugitives; And do not imprison their survivors In the day of their distress.

“For the day of the Lord draws near on all the nations. As you have done, it will be done to you. Your dealings will return on your own head. “Because just as you drank on My holy mountain, All the nations will drink continually. They will drink and swallow And become as if they had never existed. “But on Mount Zion there will be those who escape, And it will be holy. And the house of Jacob will possess their possessions. “Then the house of Jacob will be a fire And the house of Joseph a flame; But the house of Esau will be as stubble. And they will set them on fire and consume them, So that there will be no survivor of the house of Esau,” For the Lord has spoken. Then those of the Negev will possess the mountain of Esau, And those of the Shephelah the Philistine plain; Also, possess the territory of Ephraim and the territory of Samaria, And Benjamin will possess Gilead. And the exiles of this host of the sons of Israel, Who are among the Canaanites as far as Zarephath, And the exiles of Jerusalem who are in Sepharad Will possess the cities of the Negev. The deliverers will ascend Mount Zion To judge the mountain of Esau, And the kingdom will be the Lord’s. — Obadiah 1-21