I think this needs more attention on here. The ATF has collected purchase information from polymer 80 and it appears they have used that info to complete their first gun confiscation. Please, people need to hear about this.
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If the atf shows up at your door they should be looked at no different than antifa. Hand over the bullets first...
I mean, they have NO fucking right to take shit. 80% frames are legal and the rest of the gun is non-serialized and legal to own. Having both is perfectly fine. It's also perfectly LEGAL to manufacture a pistol for yourself without a background check or anything. You just can't give/sell/trade it.
A purchase there doesn't mean shit anyways. Maybe you needed the parts for a other build, but figured you wouldn't mind also purchasing a frame. Simply purchasing a doesn't even mean you intend to use those particular parts to manufacture a firearm. This is no different than buying a plastic paperweight along with other legal gun components.
I'd tell them to fuck off and immediately call lawyer. You are LEGALLY in the right, while they are not.
Dude, didn't you get the memo? Legal v illegal is a distinction without a difference now. SCOTUS just ruled that laws are irrelevant and all that matters is party politics.
Well, the ATF's own statements say that an 80% frame is NOT a firearm. The parts required to complete it are not a firearm, either. This is no different than ordering computer components or something online.
There is also no proof that you even intended to manufacture a firearm upon purchase. It could be a gift, a conversation piece, something for display, or you just wanted the other parts for a different gun, and just decided to purchase a frame along with it. Besides that, manufacturing you own gun (for personal use) is not illegal either. Even if you have a completed gun, that's fine.
If you are a prohibited person, however, you might be fucked. Even so, if it's not built, I think you MAY still be okay, as long as you can PROVE it's not for you, or you didn't intend on building it.
You're still approaching this assuming the old rules apply.
They don't.
Everything is different now, fren. The old rules are still on the books but no longer matter. All that matters is what maximizes establishment power. The sooner you realize what's changed and adapt, the better your outcome will be. Hopefully Trump can fix it all, but until then we have to act accordingly.
Just look at the kyle rittenhouse case
It should be made clear moving forward (especially since the SC has basically said the constitution is just a suggestion) that if those cunts are going to show up at your house they will be considered a direct threat to the owner and their family, a threat that will be answered with extreme prejudice.
Unless you add a serial number to ATF specifications, then you can sell it.
Well, yes. AS IS you can't do anything with it.
The ATF is a bunch of thugs. They’re holding the sales records pending a ruling that polymer80 was shipping complete guns, then they’ll try to call all the customers felons and throw the book at them.
I teach my kids they are equally important.
I wonder if they are ready to try and take my AR pistol yet...
Sauce?
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/11/atf-agents-raid-polymer80/
Not really gun confiscation. They raided a company suspect of doing illegal activity. Companies doing illegal stuff like that will be justification when they do try and take our guns away.
There’s nothing illegal about 80% kits.
And nothing illegal about completing them.
And nothing illegal about completing one and selling it, as long as you serialize it.
No, only if you sell it.
Don’t think so, but don’t take my word for it!
You can build firearms, obviously not fully automatics, sbr’s, or anything you need a tax stamp for.
You can’t make them and sell them.
Shall not be infringed
Depends on the state. In PA, we only have to serialize it if it is being sold or transferred. The raid was for their completion kits. it came with everything you needed to finish the pistol, minus the drill and hand tools. As much as I hate the ATF, but I can see some logic in this. Bad people are going to do bad things. In the end, I don't get the need for serialization. Other than building a registry, its not needed.
what do you think people are going to do who buy the lower?
(they are going to buy everything else)
Why does it matter if it comes in one package or not?
I mean, that's technically not true. This is the holiday season, and a lot of the frames and kits are probably being bought to be given as gifts.
Their thought is it's a one stop shop for a firearm. Since it's classified as a non-firearm until you finish the lower, you don't need to run a back ground check. So their argument is that any felon or prohibited person can buy one over the internet and have it ship to their house.
Could you perhaps be referring to the legendary 'shovel AK47'?
I'm not the one saying that. That is the current view of the ATF. I firmly believe that the culture of this country is shit. That firearm law is so poorly written that thought of manufacturing your own firearm is considered illegal unless you pay your taxes on it and hope you can keep up with the ever moving goal post. A good example is with pistol braces. SB Tactical came up with an great concept to allow a firearm to be more user friendly. The ATF has constantly flipped flopped over what you can and cannot do with them. They pulled the same shit with Q and went after them over the pistol version of the Honey Badger. I'm just waiting for the day that they update the Stamp Tax from the current $200 to $2000 or more. Our fore fathers would be stacking bodies like firewood by now......
The logic is the atf is corrupt and dosent want you able to defend yourself
I'm not sure why I'm being down voted. Just because I see some of their thinking behind this, does not mean that I support it and think they are right. I just understand that we collectively as a species do violent acts. That regardless of firearms being available or not, we will find a way to harm if not kill each other. The only way to honestly curb any of this is by making the punishment of violent crimes more severe. Bring back public hangings. Make it so the evil people around us fear the repercussions. Our Justice system has failed. Our enemies have infiltrated our government at all levels. And we just sit and allow this all to happen.
It was a specific type of complete kit they had a problem with, not the 80% lower
Ah okay. Thanks for the clarification
So, you can buy the frame kit, a slide/frame parts kit, or the complete package containing both kits.
The frame kit has been sent in and cleared by the ATF.
A parts kit is not regulated. Nothing is serialized, and could legally be sold anywhere, even Wal-Mart. You wouldn't even have to be 18 to possess this stuff.
You can buy both of these items from the site in one order. Both are legal, and owning all of it (and even putting it together) is legal.
Now, for some fucked up retarded reason, they are now saying it's not legal to buy these in a single click, with one purchase and one order #. However, it's perfectly FINE if you make 2 clicks on a single purchase with the same order #.
What crazy kind of mental gymnastics they had to perform to get that idea, I have no clue. The difference between legal/illegal is having to click an extra time, adding 2 items to the purchase.
Nothing illegal? What about stupid Antifa shitheads with zero vetting by gun patriots? Are you trying to fuck with us by misinformation? Maybe you are delusional!
No vetting needed to buy 80% kits. Not sure why you can’t grasp that.
Company could have been doing some shady stuff.. we don’t know.
80% lowers are legal though. Doesn’t matter if they’re shipped with an upper, magazines, or ammunition.
That is true, but based on the Gaytf’s track record I think it’s safe to say that the company wasn’t doing anything wrong and the Gaytf had no real cause for their raid.
I’d agree, especially with the atf feeling froggy about pistol braces lately. But honestly we don’t know yet.
I guess the problem is 80% receiver assembly and background check requirements.
nope
no background check required for 80% lowers
Do you get a background check when buying shoes? Same deal. 80% percent lowers/frames are considered nothing more than a paperweight as is.
They CANNOT be used to complete a firearm without modification. That would be like going to home depot and buying piping that can be used to create a zip gun. Sure it CAN be made into one, but not as it was purchased.
There are some states that have laws against 80% frames/receivers, but they won't sell/ship to there.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/12/11/polymer80-kits/
Someone has had ATF come to their home, the ATF left with the gun. I think that qualifies.
Which means?
Good point. Chicoms downvoted you.
The legal argument they're making is selling all the pieces to make a gun where the end user can construct a gun counts as selling a gun without doing a background check.
It's total bullshit but it's a lie to justify the confiscation.
I don't think confiscation can happen until inauguration passes if Beijing Biden manages to steal the election. They're probably just compiling the info ahead of time as the dementia poster boy said going after 2A is in his first 100 day plan.
Oh and don't forget to kick 10% back to the big guy and corn pop was a bad dude!
I honestly feel like this should be stickied so people who purchased from there have a heads up that they need to go have a nice boating trip.
ATF is prepping for a biden presidency. Either way they can kiss my @$$. My guns are safe and sound right where they are staying.
I read in WSJ that "these guns can be assembled into a working firearm in a matter of minutes." This is either hyperbole and sensationalism, or this company isn't actually selling legal 80% receivers. A true 80% receiver cannot be turned into a working firearm in a "matter of minutes."
I GUARANTEE you could get one from pristine to functional within 59 minutes.
yeah i can get one from 80% to fully built in under an hour
routing out the lower takes 30-45 min
i will say though i seem to have fucked up all my lowers though so i unfortunately had to throw them away, and without them i had no use for the uppers, bcg’s etc
such a shame
Well, I'm talking about an 80% pistol frame specifically, where all you have to do is drill a few holes, cut some tabs, and trim out where the slide rod/spring goes.
If you aren't necessarily worried about looks or a FLAWLESSLY functioning firearm you can finish it within 15 minutes, but it would be pretty sloppy. All you need is a drill, file, exacto knife, and some snips. If you have a access to machines with a drill press, mill, and nice tools, you could probably do it and have it look pretty nice in that time (assuming you had everything laid out and the tooling set up).
Now, anything besides a glock clone, there's NO WAY I could personally have it done in under an hour. Especially something like a 1911 build. In fact, I don't think I could do them at all. You need actually machining equipment for those, which I don't have.
That's what I'm saying. Now does home depot have to be raided for selling completely legal, unregulated items that CAN be manufactured into a weapon? If the answer is no, then neither does P80.
Since they DID, they MUST immediately raid all hardware stores as well. It's only fair. Serves all these companies right for selling all these perfectly legal unregulated items.
Well, technically it takes you minutes no matter how long
180 minutes, 240 minutes, etc
But what about other companies selling P80 products? They are basically #1 on the market. There are TONS of other companies that sell their frames, along with their own accessories to complete them.
People should suffer a boating accident more often.
They are going to need one hell of a diving certification to find all mine in the lake.
Black market guns. I am sure there is some illegal arms dealer who'd to love the business.
i rememberer when i tried to build one
it was way to hard so i threw everything away
luckily it’s all recyclable aluminum
Come and take them commies
Imo if someone cant be trusted with a firearm they shouldnt be out in public.
So if someone goes to jail, serves their time, when they come home they should have all rights restored.
But that also means we shouldn’t release dangerous individuals. Complex subject for sure, but we dont want the gov just charging people with felonies as a loophole to take away their gun rights.
You can bet my name is on that fucking list!
Now it begins Fuck Boy!
I mean if you bought a p80 online and or used a credit card for your p80, I don't know what to tell you. You have to go low tech if you are trying to operate in the grey.
Recommended using same credit card for some boating accessories.
The hill I will die on. Come.
Do you have a link?
"Oh, that old P80? I sold that at a gun show years ago. No sir, I don't know who the buyer was."
I love this guy, a good source of info... https://youtu.be/yoEgDp-CpmA
It is not a complex subject. If felons want guns, they will get them. Punishing law abiding citizens, without due process, because criminals exist is not a rational position. I understand that there are consequences to that, but I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The kits are gun parts. None are serialized parts considered firearms ever. The only serialized part on a firearm they don't include in the kit and the purchaser must build themselves.
They still were following the law. Their frame kits were submitted and cleared. The other parts are non-serialized and fully legal to buy/sell anywhere.
Everything they were selling was completely legal. Even if they didn't sell a "complete kit" people would have purchased them all anyways, probably in the same order. How is that fine, but this isn't? It's literally no different, and would be a single order number either way.
Civics classes were taken out of schools - this is intentional so that they can slowly change the government without people knowing that it is wrong and unconstitutional. They would rather teach them how to be an anti-racist and how to be woke to the identity of trannies
That's retarded, though. They submitted the frames and were cleared. Lower parts kits, barrels, slides, and slide part kits are all completely legal to sell, and aren't regulated. Why would they submit them for review?
And the problem is that they DIDN'T until they suddenly say they do.
The only questionable item was the frame. There's no regulation for the other stuff, so they wouldn't assume they needed to submit the whole kit when it's not a modification of the frame which had already been cleared. It's just additional items you are purchasing, which you could buy seperate and in the same order, which is apparently fine.
I have seen that, but I have seen far more companies just selling complete kits. (Minus mags).
Even so, you can still purchase all of that in a single order, and receive it in one package.
you are a fag
they do not need to be submitted, fag
Property removed. No laws violated. Against the express wording of the Constitution.
THE CONSTITUTION IS DEAD - SCOTUS SAID SO.
your mom
she liked it though
I can't agree with that. Felons break the law. Whatever law the ATF thinks it can make will only be broken by criminals who disregard the law. If you want illegal guns, there are better ways that buying online where they keep records of your firearm purchases.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
That's not exactly what they were claiming, though. The ATF is trying to claim they are selling "firearms" without paying taxes and shipping them across state without proper procedures. They claim the "buy/build/shoot" kits qualify as a complete firearm, which they are selling illegally.
It doesn't have shit to do with selling to felons in particular. It has everything to do with the ATF flexing and infringing on out freedoms, and then not getting their cut of the pie. They could honestly care less about our safety and whether felons own guns or not. They don't have good intentions. They just want to take out money and freedom, and make owning firearms harder.
This is what I'm trying to say. They are just trying to flex and fuck with people over wording or labeling. Like I said, the difference between something being illegal and fine is an extra click of the mouse, which ends up getting you the same thing in the end. It's just ridiculous.
If it was an issue of safety and keeping guns out of the wrong hands, this would ALL be illegal. But it's not. They don't give a shit about people. They just want to reduce people's access to firearms and get their piece of the pie. It's just them trying to find the easiest way to fuck with a company.
How did they break the law?
Well, technically they DIDN'T, but you know how the ATF is, and how laws don't seem to matter these days.
Ah ok, well at least the ATF and FBI don’t have a history of raiding people who haven’t actually broken the law...
Can you please just summarize for me?