What? You don't have to have a mortgage. Get a job and go buy a shack, or pay rent. Or move into the wilderness and build a cabin, or live in a box. If you sign for a loan, you pay for the loan. No debt forgiveness, actions have consequences.
Well then you will need a mortgage. An FHA loan can get you in with a low credit score and 3%. Live in it, fix it up. Sell it. Make a profit. Move on to another property.
A mortgage is a loan. Somebody is buying something that they cannot or do not want to pay for at the current time. I dont understand your post at all - you are going to force someone that is seling something to sell it to somebody that will not pay them?
That isn't because of mortgages tho that an issue with property taxes being allowed which they shouldn't be the excuses of it being for school budgets is bullshit. The issue of eminent domain is a little more complicated but at least requires compensation for lands "seized". If property taxes were forced to other governmental revenue streams, or (in my wildest hopes) we reduce the size of government enough they could do without we could issue allodial title once a mortgage is paid. A similar issue exists by the way with cars where you never actually own your car as it has to be titled, registered, insured and is constantly subject to potential government seizure.
The problem with easy debt is that it creates an artificial bidding war in the absence of more supply.
Eventually, people take out loans to outbid everyone else. Now everyone else needs to start taking out big loans just to have a fair shot at buying a house. In the end, it becomes too much money chasing after the same amount of goods.
Who wins? The house seller, homeowner, and banker.
Who loses? Everyone else.
In theory, mortgages should help fix low availability of affordable housing in the long-term: If the value of a house is too low, it discourages homebuilding. This causes the supply to stagnate. Availability of mortgages pushes the value of a house up, encouraging homebuilding which drives the price back down.
In practice, this doesn't happen, due to burdensome regulations at the state and local level which make it impossible to build houses at a fair price. Blame it on the big government.
The real big-loan predatory practice is college debt. Suddenly everyone is bidding up the price of a seat in college with money they don't have, money that's chasing after the same number of seats. The only winners are the bank and the colleges. The losers are the chumps dumb enough to borrow $200K for a "prestigious" far-left indoctrination in some nonsense SJW major. They end up saddled with onerous debt, predatory interest, and stuck in an unskilled-labor track.
This. The free market is a self-adapting system, and the housing market would dynamically adjust if not for government regulation that breaks the system and prices people out of the American Dream.
Then build a house all on your own. In the real world people had to pay for materials and labor to create that house. Is someone else going to pay that cost for you? Debt slavery? So eliminate debt and make the people who created the house your personal slaves. I love these laughable imaginary freebies and ‘rights’ which make other people slaves to parasites and the unproductive.
40 yr mortgage?. Most are 30 but you can get 20 or 15 year. Sometimes even 10.
Dont like that..look for a home in which seller is willing to carry...theyre usually small shitty houses or cabins in mtns. But its an option...or .do it the old fashioned way..buy some land in an area with no building code...build in stages as you get the money....
Etc etc.
Mortgage rates are 2.5-3.5 % right now...pretty much lowest ever on record. Thats less than $1000 a month for $230,000 loan on a 30 yr fixed.
They are very fair. People can buy a house they cant pay full price for. It's a loan. You pay said loan back. When you dont, the loan company forecloses and people like swope in. But it also creates massive jobs. Builders, plumbers, electrician etc make a ton of money building these. Plus the supply chain of products. And the financing end. All of this cause of mortgages. More Millionaires have come from real estate than any other industry.
This gave me a headache. You can rent or buy. A mortgage is one of those few things in society that benefits all parties involved. Mortgages give the middle class and even the lower class to work hard and own something they can be proud of.
Get a trailer. If you don't want to look into different ways of living, you should and of you like the idea of a house that costs hundreds of thousands the get used to loans
Loans are not the best, but they are better than having to wait 40 years to build that kind of capital on your own while paying rent
Don't fall for the media propaganda, getting a trailer and gathering some money isn't the worst thing in the world
No one owes you shit, let alone a house, land and the money to get it
This is bull shit, you don't have to have a mortgage no one is forcing you to buy a house you can't afford. Are you going to say the same for car loans? is there really a difference? Save up and buy a trailer in a trailer park instead of a house if you are so concerned about having a 30+ year mortgage. No one owes you a place to live you entitled piece of shit.
Lending money for interest has been around for over 2000 years & isn't only a capitalist function. Lending allows people to buy things they wouldn't be able to normally afford... like a house. That's a good thing as long as income levels are stable or growing. Without it, there'd be no prosperity in America. Many people have a problem understanding that having a mortgage requires a good sense of responsibility & living frugally. If you think mortgages are evil, don't sign up for one. It's really that simple. If you sign up for one, you're signing a legally binding contract promising to make payments as prescribed. To say mortgages are evil means you don't think people should have to fulfill a contract they entered into voluntarily. Sorry, but that's really stupid. It's the same as students failing to pay back their student loans, which is no less than outright theft. Nobody made them get a loan. You might as well walk into a car dealership & steal their cars because "It's not fair that you have to pay for transportation."
As opposed to 40 years of rent? Yeah i will take my chances with a property owner or bank willing to loan for a true home. A contract is a willingness between two parties for whatever agreement is made. I choose to buy a home, regardless of how i do it. I do not choose to need a roof over my childrens head. And i will not remain indebted in perpetuity for something i will never own myself (like an apartment), nor will i remain indebted in perpetuity because someone else decided a contract he/she has absolutely no interest in whatsoever is immoral.
I'll add another comment here to try to share some knowledge with the community, but really here for you @ChatNiggaNinja.
Pure Capitalism
Mortgages have really come a long way in history. It used to be that a lender, like a bank, would receive deposits from people and would try to "use money to make money". They would lend that money out to get interest payments from people while they slowly pay off the loan. The banks would have requirements that the borrowers would have to meet so that they could be sure that they would get the money back. We call that underwriting today. Banks don't want to lose money after all.
Sounds simple because so far it is simple. As time passed, things were added to "help people" and made things more complicated. In no particular order...
Strike One - Fannie and Freddy
The government decided that being a homeowner is something that all citizens should strive for. A home is part of the American Dream after all. They decided that in order for every man to be able to have a home, those pesky bank requirements stood in the way. Remember, the requirements that would check to see if a borrower was trusted. In order to motivate the banks to loosen those requirements, the gov't said, "We know that there is risk involved in lending. We will assume that risk from you after you make the loan." To do this, the gov't bought the loan from the bank. They stood up two Government Sponsored Entities (GSEs) to do this: Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. So now every loan that a bank makes is bought by the gov't so the gov't assumes the risk. What kind of consequences exist as a result of this? The most obvious one is that with looser lending requirements, there will be more people buying homes. Supply and demand tell us that with more people buying homes, home prices will go up. Consider this strike one in favor of debt slavery.
Strike Two - The Fed
In the modern day, and for at least the past 10-15 years, we live in an environment where interest rates on loans are at rock bottom. Interest rates used to be decided by banks and what interest rates are is a "fee" for borrowing money. If lots of people want to borrow money, this fee is going to go up. It fluctuates all the time, naturally. Fortunately, the gov't steps in again to save people from the free market. We have an organization called the Federal Reserve (Fed) which is thought of as the "banks' bank". Banks borrow money from the Fed and store money with them. When banks store money with the Fed, they are paid interest and if they borrow the pay interest back. This interest rate set by the Fed is key to setting the interest rates today in our financial system. The free market has no say any more in what interest rates should be. A group of men and women in the Fed digest numbers representing the U.S. and global economy and try to come up with what they think the best interest rate would be for all of us. In 2008, during the financial crisis, the Fed decided to lower the interest rates as low as they could. There was a program called ZIRP (zero interest rate program, maybe?) to set interest rates to zero. Now let's ask ourselves what are the consequences here? With low interest rates, that drives more people into the market which again increases home prices. This is another strike in favor of debt slavery.
Strike Three - Speculation
Now, in recent years (past 20) we have had a large amount of speculation in real estate. There are entire companies that buy real estate and either rent out those homes or try to flip them. Blackrock is an example of one. Economically speaking, these behaviors by themselves are not bad. They're good. If you take the ultra low interest rates from the previous paragraph and mix that in though, it becomes worse. The reason is, is that companies take on extraordinary amounts of debt and gobble up homes on the market. Looking back at supply and demand, this is kind of an "unnatural" increase in demand. Home prices go up and we get strike three in favor of debt slavery. Prices in big cities especially flew through the roof.
What is not capitalism
In your first statement you said, "I’m all for capitalism when it actually benefits people". In my statements above, each paragraph goes like "banks used to do this, then gov't stepped in and now we do this". The beginning when banks ran the show is capitalism. The gov't interventions are not capitalism. In many instances it is crony capitalism where good intentions actually made things worse.
Debt Slavery and Final Thoughts
Debt slavery is a bit of a loaded term too. That's right that you're paying off debt over a long period of time, however you are getting something in return: equity. At the beginning the amount of equity you get is small. As time goes on, or as you make more payments, the equity becomes larger and larger until you pay off the house. I live in a home where I took a loan for $230k. The debt is still hanging over my head, however I have $150k in equity built up. When I sell the house, that equity goes with me, and I am free to do with it as I please. It took me a long time to get the debt down that far, and it's going to take me a long time to knock it off the rest of the way. That's okay though. With most things in life, we have to work hard in order accomplish something. With things like stock market promises of get-rich-quick schemes, we all hope for lots of money without much sacrifice, but for most of us, life isn't like that. You have to grit your teeth and march through those monthly payments as best you can.
I hope this gives you some food for thought. Ask me about the gold standard sometime next :).
Perfect answer
What? You don't have to have a mortgage. Get a job and go buy a shack, or pay rent. Or move into the wilderness and build a cabin, or live in a box. If you sign for a loan, you pay for the loan. No debt forgiveness, actions have consequences.
Pay cash.
No mortgage.
Well then you will need a mortgage. An FHA loan can get you in with a low credit score and 3%. Live in it, fix it up. Sell it. Make a profit. Move on to another property.
A mortgage is a loan. Somebody is buying something that they cannot or do not want to pay for at the current time. I dont understand your post at all - you are going to force someone that is seling something to sell it to somebody that will not pay them?
Excellent post, especially given the irony of your username.....kek. thank you for seeing this kind of stupidity in a rational way.
Gonna have to check them out. Thanks. Always in the mood for some punk.
Go to hell. It’s private property you commie fool.
From what I have read even if you pay off your mortgage you still never really own your house. Allodial title, Ownership of the land, taxes, etc...
That isn't because of mortgages tho that an issue with property taxes being allowed which they shouldn't be the excuses of it being for school budgets is bullshit. The issue of eminent domain is a little more complicated but at least requires compensation for lands "seized". If property taxes were forced to other governmental revenue streams, or (in my wildest hopes) we reduce the size of government enough they could do without we could issue allodial title once a mortgage is paid. A similar issue exists by the way with cars where you never actually own your car as it has to be titled, registered, insured and is constantly subject to potential government seizure.
No way. No one is forcing you into one. You have the option to pay it off early, thereby lowering your interest payments.
If you lend $250,000 to someone, you want a return on your investment.
If you want to talk further, please go ahead and reply. I'd love to try to change your mind about this :).
This. Thank you for having a rational mind, fren
The problem with easy debt is that it creates an artificial bidding war in the absence of more supply.
Eventually, people take out loans to outbid everyone else. Now everyone else needs to start taking out big loans just to have a fair shot at buying a house. In the end, it becomes too much money chasing after the same amount of goods.
Who wins? The house seller, homeowner, and banker.
Who loses? Everyone else.
In theory, mortgages should help fix low availability of affordable housing in the long-term: If the value of a house is too low, it discourages homebuilding. This causes the supply to stagnate. Availability of mortgages pushes the value of a house up, encouraging homebuilding which drives the price back down.
In practice, this doesn't happen, due to burdensome regulations at the state and local level which make it impossible to build houses at a fair price. Blame it on the big government.
The real big-loan predatory practice is college debt. Suddenly everyone is bidding up the price of a seat in college with money they don't have, money that's chasing after the same number of seats. The only winners are the bank and the colleges. The losers are the chumps dumb enough to borrow $200K for a "prestigious" far-left indoctrination in some nonsense SJW major. They end up saddled with onerous debt, predatory interest, and stuck in an unskilled-labor track.
It sounds like you agree that home loans aren't the real issue, and I agree over regulation is the real and a serious issue.
This. The free market is a self-adapting system, and the housing market would dynamically adjust if not for government regulation that breaks the system and prices people out of the American Dream.
Funny, I would kill for a mortgage right now. I fucking hate apartment living.
This. See my reply to this thread. Some peoples nerve.
Then build a house all on your own. In the real world people had to pay for materials and labor to create that house. Is someone else going to pay that cost for you? Debt slavery? So eliminate debt and make the people who created the house your personal slaves. I love these laughable imaginary freebies and ‘rights’ which make other people slaves to parasites and the unproductive.
You can totally cancel your mortgage. Sell your house poof..mortgage gone
How else do you propose buying a house?
40 yr mortgage?. Most are 30 but you can get 20 or 15 year. Sometimes even 10.
Dont like that..look for a home in which seller is willing to carry...theyre usually small shitty houses or cabins in mtns. But its an option...or .do it the old fashioned way..buy some land in an area with no building code...build in stages as you get the money....
Etc etc.
Mortgage rates are 2.5-3.5 % right now...pretty much lowest ever on record. Thats less than $1000 a month for $230,000 loan on a 30 yr fixed.
Who do you think loaned them the money? The Government? I did, you did, the teachers retirement fund did, etc.
They are very fair. People can buy a house they cant pay full price for. It's a loan. You pay said loan back. When you dont, the loan company forecloses and people like swope in. But it also creates massive jobs. Builders, plumbers, electrician etc make a ton of money building these. Plus the supply chain of products. And the financing end. All of this cause of mortgages. More Millionaires have come from real estate than any other industry.
This gave me a headache. You can rent or buy. A mortgage is one of those few things in society that benefits all parties involved. Mortgages give the middle class and even the lower class to work hard and own something they can be proud of.
Get a trailer. If you don't want to look into different ways of living, you should and of you like the idea of a house that costs hundreds of thousands the get used to loans
Loans are not the best, but they are better than having to wait 40 years to build that kind of capital on your own while paying rent
Don't fall for the media propaganda, getting a trailer and gathering some money isn't the worst thing in the world
No one owes you shit, let alone a house, land and the money to get it
This is bull shit, you don't have to have a mortgage no one is forcing you to buy a house you can't afford. Are you going to say the same for car loans? is there really a difference? Save up and buy a trailer in a trailer park instead of a house if you are so concerned about having a 30+ year mortgage. No one owes you a place to live you entitled piece of shit.
Lending money for interest has been around for over 2000 years & isn't only a capitalist function. Lending allows people to buy things they wouldn't be able to normally afford... like a house. That's a good thing as long as income levels are stable or growing. Without it, there'd be no prosperity in America. Many people have a problem understanding that having a mortgage requires a good sense of responsibility & living frugally. If you think mortgages are evil, don't sign up for one. It's really that simple. If you sign up for one, you're signing a legally binding contract promising to make payments as prescribed. To say mortgages are evil means you don't think people should have to fulfill a contract they entered into voluntarily. Sorry, but that's really stupid. It's the same as students failing to pay back their student loans, which is no less than outright theft. Nobody made them get a loan. You might as well walk into a car dealership & steal their cars because "It's not fair that you have to pay for transportation."
Yes. I'm in, especially when they discontinue your ability to work and pay it.
We are tax slaves first... debt slaves second
As opposed to 40 years of rent? Yeah i will take my chances with a property owner or bank willing to loan for a true home. A contract is a willingness between two parties for whatever agreement is made. I choose to buy a home, regardless of how i do it. I do not choose to need a roof over my childrens head. And i will not remain indebted in perpetuity for something i will never own myself (like an apartment), nor will i remain indebted in perpetuity because someone else decided a contract he/she has absolutely no interest in whatsoever is immoral.
I'll add another comment here to try to share some knowledge with the community, but really here for you @ChatNiggaNinja.
Pure Capitalism
Mortgages have really come a long way in history. It used to be that a lender, like a bank, would receive deposits from people and would try to "use money to make money". They would lend that money out to get interest payments from people while they slowly pay off the loan. The banks would have requirements that the borrowers would have to meet so that they could be sure that they would get the money back. We call that underwriting today. Banks don't want to lose money after all.
Sounds simple because so far it is simple. As time passed, things were added to "help people" and made things more complicated. In no particular order...
Strike One - Fannie and Freddy
The government decided that being a homeowner is something that all citizens should strive for. A home is part of the American Dream after all. They decided that in order for every man to be able to have a home, those pesky bank requirements stood in the way. Remember, the requirements that would check to see if a borrower was trusted. In order to motivate the banks to loosen those requirements, the gov't said, "We know that there is risk involved in lending. We will assume that risk from you after you make the loan." To do this, the gov't bought the loan from the bank. They stood up two Government Sponsored Entities (GSEs) to do this: Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. So now every loan that a bank makes is bought by the gov't so the gov't assumes the risk. What kind of consequences exist as a result of this? The most obvious one is that with looser lending requirements, there will be more people buying homes. Supply and demand tell us that with more people buying homes, home prices will go up. Consider this strike one in favor of debt slavery.
Strike Two - The Fed
In the modern day, and for at least the past 10-15 years, we live in an environment where interest rates on loans are at rock bottom. Interest rates used to be decided by banks and what interest rates are is a "fee" for borrowing money. If lots of people want to borrow money, this fee is going to go up. It fluctuates all the time, naturally. Fortunately, the gov't steps in again to save people from the free market. We have an organization called the Federal Reserve (Fed) which is thought of as the "banks' bank". Banks borrow money from the Fed and store money with them. When banks store money with the Fed, they are paid interest and if they borrow the pay interest back. This interest rate set by the Fed is key to setting the interest rates today in our financial system. The free market has no say any more in what interest rates should be. A group of men and women in the Fed digest numbers representing the U.S. and global economy and try to come up with what they think the best interest rate would be for all of us. In 2008, during the financial crisis, the Fed decided to lower the interest rates as low as they could. There was a program called ZIRP (zero interest rate program, maybe?) to set interest rates to zero. Now let's ask ourselves what are the consequences here? With low interest rates, that drives more people into the market which again increases home prices. This is another strike in favor of debt slavery.
Strike Three - Speculation
Now, in recent years (past 20) we have had a large amount of speculation in real estate. There are entire companies that buy real estate and either rent out those homes or try to flip them. Blackrock is an example of one. Economically speaking, these behaviors by themselves are not bad. They're good. If you take the ultra low interest rates from the previous paragraph and mix that in though, it becomes worse. The reason is, is that companies take on extraordinary amounts of debt and gobble up homes on the market. Looking back at supply and demand, this is kind of an "unnatural" increase in demand. Home prices go up and we get strike three in favor of debt slavery. Prices in big cities especially flew through the roof.
What is not capitalism
In your first statement you said, "I’m all for capitalism when it actually benefits people". In my statements above, each paragraph goes like "banks used to do this, then gov't stepped in and now we do this". The beginning when banks ran the show is capitalism. The gov't interventions are not capitalism. In many instances it is crony capitalism where good intentions actually made things worse.
Debt Slavery and Final Thoughts
Debt slavery is a bit of a loaded term too. That's right that you're paying off debt over a long period of time, however you are getting something in return: equity. At the beginning the amount of equity you get is small. As time goes on, or as you make more payments, the equity becomes larger and larger until you pay off the house. I live in a home where I took a loan for $230k. The debt is still hanging over my head, however I have $150k in equity built up. When I sell the house, that equity goes with me, and I am free to do with it as I please. It took me a long time to get the debt down that far, and it's going to take me a long time to knock it off the rest of the way. That's okay though. With most things in life, we have to work hard in order accomplish something. With things like stock market promises of get-rich-quick schemes, we all hope for lots of money without much sacrifice, but for most of us, life isn't like that. You have to grit your teeth and march through those monthly payments as best you can.
I hope this gives you some food for thought. Ask me about the gold standard sometime next :).