posted ago by julianReyes
+19 / -1
I'll wait to hear why everybody under the military legal code will somehow risk being charged for insubordination in military court, especially when military chain of command has already seen two officers get fired by Obummer for defying his orders regarding Benghazi.
"Because I scream so and arbitrary pessimism is 'realistic'" is not a valid argument.
I'll wait to hear why everybody under the military legal code will somehow risk being charged for insubordination in military court, especially when military chain of command has already seen two officers get fired by Obummer for defying *his* orders regarding Benghazi.
"Because I scream so and arbitrary pessimism is 'realistic'" is not a valid argument.
Any member of the armed forces may disobey any order at any time if it is an illegal order, for example if your CO tells you to go on yonder and kill those villagers who are civilian but may be harboring terrorists, you are protected by the judicial system if you refuse (of course, you'll be at the immediate mercy of your CO and his influence as a result).
All it takes is enough mid-level cucks in the armed forces to convince their underlings that Orange Man bad and is issuing illegal orders and there you have it. A unit refusing as such WILL be lionized by the media and the dems, and the hero worship they receive may both encourage more dissent as well as convince the JAG not to prosecute.
Which judicial system, I may ask?
Court Martial.
I just had to confirm.
The military courts under the UCMJ, which dictates troops need only obey lawful order.
"Hey I am invoking 10 USC Ch. 13 §252 which says clearly 'Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.' If you don't think this is a lawful invocation I am firing you immediately for defying the Secretary of Defense and replacing you who somebody who will carry out that order. Once that order is carried out, you will be court-martialed."
Again, I can clearly separate you and others who are unfamiliar with military legal realities from those who do. If doesn't matter if the supposed majority of command decides to not carry it out, Trump can tell the SoD to get them all fired and court martialed after his order is carried out (so they can't stop it,) and he can do so rapidly without the caveats of regular U.S. courts.
You don’t even know what the UCMJ is. When I cite it you try to explain that the military has it’s own legal system.
Yeah, no fucking shit, it’s the UCMJ, dumbass.
It doesn’t matter if the order is legal or not, the brass will tell the troops to disregard it as illegal. The logistics crews will certainly disobey en masse.
You’re a retard, for real.
If you knew the UCMJ, then you would have known that all the brass who don't comply would get fired immediately and be filled with people who would carry it out, and then after the order is carried out the brass who defied the order will be court-martialed to determine if their defiance fell under legal standards. I even linked an article that explains this and you resort to insults and petty character assassination because "the military would just collectively defy, they're just like civilians."
You didn’t even know what the UCMJ was, fucktard. Even your OP called it the “military legal code.” Now you’re here trying to pretend I don’t know about it. What the fuck is your malfunction?
I never said they were just like civilians. Goddamn you’re stupid.
He can fire as many as he wants; the officer corps is not sufficiently loyal to do what you are proposing. The head of SOCOM preaches diversity hiring for fucks sake.
The problem is not with the enlisted men and women. It’s with the officers. Don’t forget that Dem representatives and senators get to recommend people to attend West Point, the naval academy, and the Air Force Academy too. Wouldn’t be surprised if a few appointments/recommendations were politically motivated, or given out to wealthy campaign donors.
There is no debate that President Trump is commander in chief up to January 20th. The President will be well within his rights to dismiss officers for insubordination.
First, there is no real proof as to a US raid on Scytl, but that’s not all that relevant to the argument. Here you go:
As you noted, there is a chain of command. Trump is Commander in Chief, but orders flow through that chain of command. That top brass in that chain of command generally hates Trump. This is so for a couple of major reasons: (1) Obama purged conservatives out of the top brass; and (2) many in the higher ranks are warmongers who hate the peace Trump has brought (without war, it is harder for them to land cushy no-show directorships at military-industrial complex contractors). So the top brass will not reliably follow (or pass down) Trump’s orders.
Moreover, troops are taught to disregard illegal orders, and the anti-Trump brass and mid-tier officers (who have undergone critical race theory training) will tell their troops to disregard Trump’s orders as unconstitutional.
Even assuming a significant portion of the ground-pounders, who do tend to like Trump, endeavor to follow Trump’s orders, the logisitics and support troops are predominantly female and/or minority, and overwhelmingly hate Trump. They will balk at delivering provisions for any troops that do follow Trump’s orders.
As for the brass fearing getting fired: They don’t have such fear. If Trump fires them, Biden rehires them.
So let the war mongers have their war and declare war on China and pick up all those dominion machines and put the sympathizers in camps
I like your energy, but I don’t want boots on the ground in China. Given their population size, we’d have to go total war and ignore all conventions. You’d need to kill hundreds of millions of them then occupy.
Doesn’t sound fun.
Open to alternative thoughts on how it would go, though.
We don’t need their geography we just need to take over all of their assets here under a declaration of war, Air Force and the Navy can take care of the rest with the help of the Guardians, no boots on the ground in Asia ever again that’s what we have missiles for, let it be cosmic.
I can tell you haven't been through boot camp.
I haven’t been, no. When did you go through? I ask because troops are taught about unlawful orders, and even if they weren’t, the officers sympathetic to Biden (which is a majority of commissioned officers per polling) would explain that Articles 90 through 92 (IIRC) of the UCMJ require that troops obey lawful orders, and that they will be prosecuted for following unlawful orders (like Keenan, Calley, and so many others).
Oh yes, because polls have been very accurate at depicting reality.
Yes, they are taught, but "with a shitton of caveats." The drill officers spent a lot of time on those "BUTS" compared to the amount of time they dedicated to saying "you can defy an order from a CO if you think it could be unconstitutional." Or in other words, a lot of "BUTS."
The current Defense Secretary Christopher C. Miller (who, you know, oversees the entire Department of Defense) has already ordered the entirety of the U.S. Armed Forces not to comply with the supposed "Biden presidential transition."
OK, "you're fired." Hey, that guy next to you who I know likes me more? Promotion! Repeat for every schmuck who doesn't follow through. They'll be handing him a quick purge of everybody who opposes him in military chain of command. And even if it is found that the military followed an unlawful order once everybody is court-martialed, it'll be too late. KIND OF LIKE THE ELECTION.
The military follows a different legal code altogether, you realize, and their way of doing things legally is WAY faster than what civilians go through. You are approaching this with a civilian mindset.
You have not brought up the National Guard at all, I note.
You mention a different legal code. That would be the UCMJ, which I have cited multiple times in this thread.
Reading the rest of your post, it is clear you’re a retard.
OK, nice rebuttal.
I tell you they train on illegal orders. You say they don’t. I reassure they do. You admit they do. Retard.
You don’t know what the UCMJ is.
You think having the Sec Def loyal to Trump is enough, ignoring my entire explanation as to brass and middle officers. If they will ignore a Trump order (many will), they’ll ignore a Sec Def order.
You asked for an argument. I provided it. You stick your fingers in your ears and shit all over the thread while making zero cogent points.
Fucking loser.
That was my response.
Clearly your argument doesn't apply.
I already explained the consequences of what would happen in reality if they decided to defy and you are pretending my explanation does not exist because acknowledging it destroys your narrative of "military is just like civil rights movement." Military cannot do civil disobedience under the UCMJ, as you refuse to acknowledge.
I never said civil rights movement, dipshit.
Articles 90 through 92 of the UCMJ require obedience of lawful orders. You get court martialed for following unlawful orders. That’s why I mentioned Calley and Keenan.
You’re just making up quotes from me and displaying a full misunderstanding of military justice.
I'm going to give you a real quick lesson on power. Power is derived from force and that is it. Ultimately, if a 4-star general refuses an order from the President and no one with a force strong enough to arrest then punish the general, nothing happens.
If Trump declares martial law, there is a good chance you could see insubordination from higher ranking military officers. Unless Trump has a strong enough force willing to arrest and punish those who won't listen to him then Trump won't get anywhere.
You don't know anything about the military bill of rights, do you?
Laws are meaningless right now, that's what I'm trying to tell you. We've past the point of laws mattering. All that matters is who has the power.