Yeah, for the contest to succeed both the house and senate need to vote to overturn the electors from a state. The constitution says that congress gets to write their own rules of proceedings and so they passed a bunch into federal law.
One of them says that if congress doesn't vote in both chambers to overturn a slate of electors that the electors certified by a governor are the ones that count.
They might be trying to institute a dispute, and then challenge it at the supreme court?
I'm really not sure if that will work, but I hope they can pull it off.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if Trump doesn't get majority, the opposition would still need to get majority otherwise it goes off to a 1 Vote per State decision which Trump wins easily.
The "Trump wins easily" line is by no means accurate.
He should win, but how many House Republicans will stab Trump in the back one more time? It doesn't take that many.
Case in point: Liz Cheney is the at large rep for Wyoming. Her vote will determine the entire Wyoming state delegation vote. She's been pretty adamant that Biden won and there's no fraud so Trump must concede. Who do you think she'd vote for?
It only takes a handful of strategically placed RINOs and Biden can win the House vote.
You seem to think the number of states a candidate won during the general election translates to state votes in the House vote. It doesn't.
Trump won Wyoming handedly in the election. He would lose Wyoming in a House vote because only one person is voting for the entire state, Liz Cheney, who will vote for Biden.
Each state House delegation votes amongst themselves, then the winner of that vote gets one vote from that state. Trump would win a party line vote because the Rs will have the majority of House reps in 30 states, but the GOP can't be trusted not to betray us once again.
Yeah, the Dems will all unanimously vote for Biden. The only possible defectors are in the GOP. This it's always true. Lefties always support leftism before anything else. It manifests in court decisions, lawmaking, voting, and even hiring practices. They always put party first. The right? That's a crapshoot because we have values other than winning party politics above all else.
Pence can do whatever he wants. He can choose not to count certain votes if he wants. There is nothing in the constitution that says otherwise. It does not matter what laws congress passed. He has full control on what happens.
There is nothing in the constitution that says otherwise.
And this should make us pause... the Constitution and its framers never foresaw the office of the presidency being so important and its election being such a contentious thing that it would be controversial for the Vice President of the preceding administration to have the final say. The Constitution does not foresee a popular vote at all. The election of the president was to be a very un-democratic process, strongly gatekept by the ruling elites: the state legislatures appoint electors (without reference to a popular vote), Congress can reject any or all of them, the VP can reject any or all of them, and ultimately it can go directly to the States via the House. What's essentially happening when it goes to the House is we're reverting temporarily to the logic of the Continental Congress, which predates the Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, even the Declaration of Independence. Under the Constitution, small states ceded power to large states, but when there is a contention in the election of president (and vice president), no holds are barred as it were, and every state is restored its pre-Constitution sovereign authority of one State one vote.
People balk at the VP's power here, but it's because the presidency was intended to be an office elected by the elites, so all of this controversy would be in-house and behind closed doors. Pence can force a contingent election. Every election from now on should be contested if the VP is a Republican, since, presumably, there will always be more red states than blue states. And this basically means no Democrats could ever win the presidency again, assuming Pence does it. Say goodbye to democracy, but it was never intended in the first place so whatever. It is a Union of States, not individuals, so one state one vote is the most fair way to select the president; more fair than the electoral college, and certainly more fair than a popular vote.
This is literally fake news. You should probably read the constitution. Do you think the founders were so retarded they gave that Sole power to the sitting VP?
You’re right, the vp can just pick whatever set of electors he wants for any reason, even though the alternate electors aren’t even fucking certified
Pence can look at both slates and go, "It's December 24th and there are some dueling elector slates here. Go clean that up by January 6th."
January 6th comes and either:
Slates come back for Trump and Pence counts.
Slates come back for Biden and Pence doesn't count citing voter fraud.
Slates don't come back and Pence says that states doesn't receive any electors.
Pence is a Hoosier through and through, steeped in our way of life and honor of the Constitution. There is no way in hell he stabs Trump in the back. He is and has always been by Trump's side. That doesn't change on the 24th, that doesn't change on the 6th. That doesn't change, ever.
12A, relevant section (not written by the founders by the way)
the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;–The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.
It's not self evident either way who counts or disqualified votes. Pence opens the ballots at a joint session. Those ballots are then counted. That's really all it says
The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.
The 12th amendment is just a tweak of this section. If there is an irregularity in the votes, then logically someone has to decided which votes are good, and which votes are not. Otherwise, the states could send more votes than they are allotted, and get away with it. It is obvious that the President of the Senate has discretion here. If not, then counting the votes is meaningless.
You guys bag on me for it, but i do not trust pence completely, he may do the right thing, but i don't think it is a good idea for it all to hinge on him,
dont we need like a majority to contest the election. it's a good plan, but we need swamp drainage more importantly.
biden is compromised. no excuses for intelligence community being awol.
guarantee some fuck hole senator or congressmen cop out. they got corporate constituents.
Yeah, for the contest to succeed both the house and senate need to vote to overturn the electors from a state. The constitution says that congress gets to write their own rules of proceedings and so they passed a bunch into federal law.
One of them says that if congress doesn't vote in both chambers to overturn a slate of electors that the electors certified by a governor are the ones that count.
They might be trying to institute a dispute, and then challenge it at the supreme court?
I'm really not sure if that will work, but I hope they can pull it off.
This stimulus bill is the payoff.
In which direction?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if Trump doesn't get majority, the opposition would still need to get majority otherwise it goes off to a 1 Vote per State decision which Trump wins easily.
The "Trump wins easily" line is by no means accurate.
He should win, but how many House Republicans will stab Trump in the back one more time? It doesn't take that many.
Case in point: Liz Cheney is the at large rep for Wyoming. Her vote will determine the entire Wyoming state delegation vote. She's been pretty adamant that Biden won and there's no fraud so Trump must concede. Who do you think she'd vote for?
It only takes a handful of strategically placed RINOs and Biden can win the House vote.
I was specifically noting that Trump wins a state run-off because he has 27 of the states.
He has an uphill battle to get to that scenario, for sure.
You seem to think the number of states a candidate won during the general election translates to state votes in the House vote. It doesn't.
Trump won Wyoming handedly in the election. He would lose Wyoming in a House vote because only one person is voting for the entire state, Liz Cheney, who will vote for Biden.
Each state House delegation votes amongst themselves, then the winner of that vote gets one vote from that state. Trump would win a party line vote because the Rs will have the majority of House reps in 30 states, but the GOP can't be trusted not to betray us once again.
The dems would easily vote for their guy. This is a huge issue for us and alwys has been.
Yeah, the Dems will all unanimously vote for Biden. The only possible defectors are in the GOP. This it's always true. Lefties always support leftism before anything else. It manifests in court decisions, lawmaking, voting, and even hiring practices. They always put party first. The right? That's a crapshoot because we have values other than winning party politics above all else.
Damn
No. The law is ambiguous and there are many opinions on what can happen. One says Pence can discard what he wants as the president of the senate
We need 50 senators. We have like 5. Not gonna happen.
No we don’t
Well TIL. How many do we need?
The law is very ambiguous regarding this. There are many scenarios that could play out. I’ll do a quick summary
Pence as president for the senate can reject fraudulent slates of electors
The house votes per state in objection to the electorates (Jenna Ellis backs this)
If the house votes for us ^ and the senate does not there is some belief that it then goes to Pence
Pence can do whatever he wants. He can choose not to count certain votes if he wants. There is nothing in the constitution that says otherwise. It does not matter what laws congress passed. He has full control on what happens.
https://prayingmedic.com/2020/12/21/ivan-raiklin-president-trumps-path-to-re-election/
Prayingmedic had Ivan Raiklin on last night. He explains this very clearly
Thanks fren! I haven’t listened to him before, really enjoyed it
And this should make us pause... the Constitution and its framers never foresaw the office of the presidency being so important and its election being such a contentious thing that it would be controversial for the Vice President of the preceding administration to have the final say. The Constitution does not foresee a popular vote at all. The election of the president was to be a very un-democratic process, strongly gatekept by the ruling elites: the state legislatures appoint electors (without reference to a popular vote), Congress can reject any or all of them, the VP can reject any or all of them, and ultimately it can go directly to the States via the House. What's essentially happening when it goes to the House is we're reverting temporarily to the logic of the Continental Congress, which predates the Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, even the Declaration of Independence. Under the Constitution, small states ceded power to large states, but when there is a contention in the election of president (and vice president), no holds are barred as it were, and every state is restored its pre-Constitution sovereign authority of one State one vote.
People balk at the VP's power here, but it's because the presidency was intended to be an office elected by the elites, so all of this controversy would be in-house and behind closed doors. Pence can force a contingent election. Every election from now on should be contested if the VP is a Republican, since, presumably, there will always be more red states than blue states. And this basically means no Democrats could ever win the presidency again, assuming Pence does it. Say goodbye to democracy, but it was never intended in the first place so whatever. It is a Union of States, not individuals, so one state one vote is the most fair way to select the president; more fair than the electoral college, and certainly more fair than a popular vote.
Democracy has already been destroyed. Pence should do whatever he can...and we can just hold new and honest elections.
This is literally fake news. You should probably read the constitution. Do you think the founders were so retarded they gave that Sole power to the sitting VP?
Umm.,. They did. Maybe YOU should read the constitution
Read it. He does.
GTFO DOOMER
You’re right, the vp can just pick whatever set of electors he wants for any reason, even though the alternate electors aren’t even fucking certified
And there's even a 3rd way.
Pence can look at both slates and go, "It's December 24th and there are some dueling elector slates here. Go clean that up by January 6th."
January 6th comes and either:
Pence is a Hoosier through and through, steeped in our way of life and honor of the Constitution. There is no way in hell he stabs Trump in the back. He is and has always been by Trump's side. That doesn't change on the 24th, that doesn't change on the 6th. That doesn't change, ever.
12A, relevant section (not written by the founders by the way)
It's not self evident either way who counts or disqualified votes. Pence opens the ballots at a joint session. Those ballots are then counted. That's really all it says
Just need to count whatever the fuck he wants much like the Dems did in the states they stole.
The 12th amendment is just a tweak of this section. If there is an irregularity in the votes, then logically someone has to decided which votes are good, and which votes are not. Otherwise, the states could send more votes than they are allotted, and get away with it. It is obvious that the President of the Senate has discretion here. If not, then counting the votes is meaningless.
"...open all the certificates..."
I'm not sure people are reading this correctly
Is it wise for us to be spreading news like this widely so they can create some counter measures and potentially intimidate people into submission?
Potentially?
They have been coordinating all along. You don't bring your quarter back in when you are on defense....
Man I hope so.
I hope so.
You guys bag on me for it, but i do not trust pence completely, he may do the right thing, but i don't think it is a good idea for it all to hinge on him,