I'm sorry, I know Christianity and Catholicism are well-established "as a new religion" and it's hard to see outside of it all, but none of what you are trying to tell me is actually backed up by the Bible as a whole. There is nothing at all in the account of Pentecost saying "throw off all of the ways of God". Paul says a lot of things, many of which are nice, but Peter warns in his second epistle, against following those "who twist his words to their own destruction." God would not send a single man other than His Son to change His whole plan for us. And even Jesus did not alter it much, He adhered to His Father's laws, and told others to do the same. The Bible should not contradict itself, and we must give Jesus primacy over any other humans in it. Go back and read the gospels, asking God to give you an open heart. If you had only Jesus's word to go by, and not the epistles, what do they honestly say? What would you truly believe?
I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but it breaks my heart to hear it said that the old -- God's divine Order -- was to be burned, when Jesus himself in Matt 5:17-20 says this:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The Apostles were men of Israel from birth and by ingrained culture, and there is mention of them still attending the temple and telling new converts that Moses was taught in synagogues every Sabbath (for them to learn the rest of God's ways). There is no mention of massive change in their religious habits. If you are to believe this did happen, if God did intend this, we should have proof of this drastic shift from God's ways, in Jesus's words and actions. Not "no proof they continued" as proof they stopped. And if the Apostles or any man had rejected the old laws, without Jesus telling them to.... How would they not be in the wrong?
Yes, Israel as a country was overthrown and scattered because men had corrupted it so much that God could not stand the sight of it anymore. There is currently no temple, so it is true that the laws involving that building simply cannot be followed for now. But God has promised that those sacrifices will take place again at a new temple in His future kingdom (apart from the sacrifice of the lamb whose role is now eternally fulfilled by Jesus), quite literally because the act pleases Him. The laws aren't dead, and you say as much, but ask yourself how they are then alive if we don't follow them as Jesus commanded us to.
One last point: your analogy of how a graft works is wrong, and I really hate to say it but nonsensical. A graft in the literal sense is a new branch added to an existing tree. If you burn the existing tree, won't the added branch die? It doesn't have its own roots, its own life separate from the rest. A gardener would never bother to graft onto a diseased plant, because the new branch would fail to thrive too. Christianity is not meant to be a stand-alone religion, separated from the Torah. Jesus uses this analogy for a reason, as He always does in His teachings. And there is no way He wouldn't have told us clearly Himself, if we were meant to discard everything that came before Him.
The Bible-sourced truth is, He preached the exact opposite, told us to follow His Father's commandments, then inscribed those "old laws" directly into our hearts, gave us the very spirit of God as our guide, and told us to cling to His ways.
"God has promised that those sacrifices will take place again at a new temple in His future kingdom"
Wrong. There is no such promise ever given about this disgusting and unnecessary act.
Animal sacrifice passed away with the Full, Final, and Forever sacrifice of Christ. There will be NO animal sacrifice pleasing to God - ever again. All Christians need to do now is offer the sacrifice of praise.
The Jews, however, will have their 3rd Temple, and fill it with disgusting animal sacrifice, as well as countless other abominations. And it is in that filthy Temple of Sin where Satan will make his throne. Just like Satan is enthroned within modern day Judaism.
Torah Judaism is the dead part of the plant. God always works through a remnant of faithful believers. There's a reason that Jesus cursed the Fig Tree (which is a symbol of Israel). Since that curse - no prophet, priest, or king has come out of Israel. The Jewish stock has been disinherited due to centuries of repeated sin. The Jews have even cursed themselves by saying at Jesus's trial "His blood be upon us and upon our children". And since they continue to blaspheme and curse Christ to this day - they will forever remain cursed.
There is no reason for any modern born-again believer in Christ to follow any Toraic Judaism. The New Covenant has washed away the Old.
You seem terribly confused, and are clinging to a past which serve no purpose other than to show God's mercy in establishing a New Covenant to override and wash away the old.
We disagree very strongly on pretty much all points of Theology, so I see no reason to continue this discussion further.
I strongly recommend you view the wonderful Documentary called "Marching to Zion". It's an eye-opener for any Christian who has allowed themselves to be seduced by the Synagogue of Satan.
God has His plan, He wanted and enjoyed the scent of burnt offerings (think of a BBQ! Do you hate cooking meat? Or killing animals for food? Because the meat of many offerings was for the priests to eat) until the stink of corruption and hypocrisy of the priests who offered them grew too much for Him. Your theology has no basis in God's own word, it is circular reasoning with circular sources, man-wrought sin for his own pleasure and downfall.
Yes, God has his plans - but I very much doubt that his plan for the future involves a disgusting blood-soaked mess of slaughtered animals.
Revelation 21:4 states clearly that there will be no more death. And since there will be no death - that defeats any idea of reinstated animal sacrifices. Christ's Church has also been made sin-free by the blood of the lamb... so since there are no more sins to sacrifice for - this also defeats the need for animal sacrifice.
Again, the Book of Hebrews (which you seem to dislike) states CLEARLY that the Old Covenant has been MADE OBSOLETE. It is abundantly clear that the writer of Hebrews was writing specifically for "Jewish" believers in Jesus who were conflicted about whether or not to continue on with "Jewish" traditions - and the answer was no.
Sacrifice means the death of something else instead of yourself to pay the price of sin. Jesus sacrificed himself once and for all, so no more sacrifice of any kind is warranted, necessary, or accepted.
Your own logic is sadly very flawed, and I have no interest in continuing this pointless discussion with you further.
I'm on this site to discuss American politics with Trump Supporters - not debate theology with pharisees.
There's a difference between the millennial kingdom and heaven. That's what the bible references at that link talk about. If you believe Hebrews over Jesus, there's not much more I can say. Jesus said that we had to be more righteous than the Pharisees, which isn't hard because they were utter hypocrites for all their talk about convoluted laws, so if I aim for not being one of them by actually following the laws God wrote, that's my own decision. I'm not hurting anyone on my part.
But to do and teach others to do the opposite of what God and Jesus teach, to lead people into darkness, to not know that the millennial kingdom is not the same as heaven.... Be careful of where you tread.
You can insult all you like, but it doesn't bother me. I only feel sorry that you may not see the truth. I'll leave you in peace.
And you have little idea of just how much I understand how Judaism was perverted by Satan over the millenia, turned into an abomination but those who say they are Jews but are not, who are the Synagogue of Satan. I am not naive.
I'm sorry, I know Christianity and Catholicism are well-established "as a new religion" and it's hard to see outside of it all, but none of what you are trying to tell me is actually backed up by the Bible as a whole. There is nothing at all in the account of Pentecost saying "throw off all of the ways of God". Paul says a lot of things, many of which are nice, but Peter warns in his second epistle, against following those "who twist his words to their own destruction." God would not send a single man other than His Son to change His whole plan for us. And even Jesus did not alter it much, He adhered to His Father's laws, and told others to do the same. The Bible should not contradict itself, and we must give Jesus primacy over any other humans in it. Go back and read the gospels, asking God to give you an open heart. If you had only Jesus's word to go by, and not the epistles, what do they honestly say? What would you truly believe?
I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but it breaks my heart to hear it said that the old -- God's divine Order -- was to be burned, when Jesus himself in Matt 5:17-20 says this:
The Apostles were men of Israel from birth and by ingrained culture, and there is mention of them still attending the temple and telling new converts that Moses was taught in synagogues every Sabbath (for them to learn the rest of God's ways). There is no mention of massive change in their religious habits. If you are to believe this did happen, if God did intend this, we should have proof of this drastic shift from God's ways, in Jesus's words and actions. Not "no proof they continued" as proof they stopped. And if the Apostles or any man had rejected the old laws, without Jesus telling them to.... How would they not be in the wrong?
Yes, Israel as a country was overthrown and scattered because men had corrupted it so much that God could not stand the sight of it anymore. There is currently no temple, so it is true that the laws involving that building simply cannot be followed for now. But God has promised that those sacrifices will take place again at a new temple in His future kingdom (apart from the sacrifice of the lamb whose role is now eternally fulfilled by Jesus), quite literally because the act pleases Him. The laws aren't dead, and you say as much, but ask yourself how they are then alive if we don't follow them as Jesus commanded us to.
One last point: your analogy of how a graft works is wrong, and I really hate to say it but nonsensical. A graft in the literal sense is a new branch added to an existing tree. If you burn the existing tree, won't the added branch die? It doesn't have its own roots, its own life separate from the rest. A gardener would never bother to graft onto a diseased plant, because the new branch would fail to thrive too. Christianity is not meant to be a stand-alone religion, separated from the Torah. Jesus uses this analogy for a reason, as He always does in His teachings. And there is no way He wouldn't have told us clearly Himself, if we were meant to discard everything that came before Him.
The Bible-sourced truth is, He preached the exact opposite, told us to follow His Father's commandments, then inscribed those "old laws" directly into our hearts, gave us the very spirit of God as our guide, and told us to cling to His ways.
"God has promised that those sacrifices will take place again at a new temple in His future kingdom"
Wrong. There is no such promise ever given about this disgusting and unnecessary act.
Animal sacrifice passed away with the Full, Final, and Forever sacrifice of Christ. There will be NO animal sacrifice pleasing to God - ever again. All Christians need to do now is offer the sacrifice of praise.
The Jews, however, will have their 3rd Temple, and fill it with disgusting animal sacrifice, as well as countless other abominations. And it is in that filthy Temple of Sin where Satan will make his throne. Just like Satan is enthroned within modern day Judaism.
Torah Judaism is the dead part of the plant. God always works through a remnant of faithful believers. There's a reason that Jesus cursed the Fig Tree (which is a symbol of Israel). Since that curse - no prophet, priest, or king has come out of Israel. The Jewish stock has been disinherited due to centuries of repeated sin. The Jews have even cursed themselves by saying at Jesus's trial "His blood be upon us and upon our children". And since they continue to blaspheme and curse Christ to this day - they will forever remain cursed.
There is no reason for any modern born-again believer in Christ to follow any Toraic Judaism. The New Covenant has washed away the Old.
You seem terribly confused, and are clinging to a past which serve no purpose other than to show God's mercy in establishing a New Covenant to override and wash away the old.
We disagree very strongly on pretty much all points of Theology, so I see no reason to continue this discussion further.
I strongly recommend you view the wonderful Documentary called "Marching to Zion". It's an eye-opener for any Christian who has allowed themselves to be seduced by the Synagogue of Satan.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/millennial-sacrifices.html
God has His plan, He wanted and enjoyed the scent of burnt offerings (think of a BBQ! Do you hate cooking meat? Or killing animals for food? Because the meat of many offerings was for the priests to eat) until the stink of corruption and hypocrisy of the priests who offered them grew too much for Him. Your theology has no basis in God's own word, it is circular reasoning with circular sources, man-wrought sin for his own pleasure and downfall.
Have a good day.
Yes, God has his plans - but I very much doubt that his plan for the future involves a disgusting blood-soaked mess of slaughtered animals.
Revelation 21:4 states clearly that there will be no more death. And since there will be no death - that defeats any idea of reinstated animal sacrifices. Christ's Church has also been made sin-free by the blood of the lamb... so since there are no more sins to sacrifice for - this also defeats the need for animal sacrifice.
Again, the Book of Hebrews (which you seem to dislike) states CLEARLY that the Old Covenant has been MADE OBSOLETE. It is abundantly clear that the writer of Hebrews was writing specifically for "Jewish" believers in Jesus who were conflicted about whether or not to continue on with "Jewish" traditions - and the answer was no.
Sacrifice means the death of something else instead of yourself to pay the price of sin. Jesus sacrificed himself once and for all, so no more sacrifice of any kind is warranted, necessary, or accepted.
Your own logic is sadly very flawed, and I have no interest in continuing this pointless discussion with you further.
I'm on this site to discuss American politics with Trump Supporters - not debate theology with pharisees.
There's a difference between the millennial kingdom and heaven. That's what the bible references at that link talk about. If you believe Hebrews over Jesus, there's not much more I can say. Jesus said that we had to be more righteous than the Pharisees, which isn't hard because they were utter hypocrites for all their talk about convoluted laws, so if I aim for not being one of them by actually following the laws God wrote, that's my own decision. I'm not hurting anyone on my part.
But to do and teach others to do the opposite of what God and Jesus teach, to lead people into darkness, to not know that the millennial kingdom is not the same as heaven.... Be careful of where you tread.
You can insult all you like, but it doesn't bother me. I only feel sorry that you may not see the truth. I'll leave you in peace.
And you have little idea of just how much I understand how Judaism was perverted by Satan over the millenia, turned into an abomination but those who say they are Jews but are not, who are the Synagogue of Satan. I am not naive.