posted ago by ListenCarefully
+4 / -6
Did the Bible lie about God? Does it say in one place that He loves all people while in another he hates all who do iniquity? If He loves everybody, like millions believe, then why does it say He hated Esau?
Did the Bible lie about God? Does it say in one place that He loves all people while in another he hates all who do iniquity? If He loves everybody, like millions believe, then why does it say He hated Esau?
No. The New Testament teaches us that our sins are paid for by the blood of Christ. Christians believe that only human sacrifice (ie Jesus’) could atone for sin. Jesus himself said he came to fulfill
The NT and OT writers believed the same gospel. There are no contradictions in the Bible. If Jesus paid for the sins of someone who dies in their sins, and has to pay for their sins in hell, did Jesus really pay for their sins? And if you say He did, why does God's justice demand two payments for the same sins?
Think about it. This is proof Jesus did not pay for the sins of everyone, because if He did, nobody would die in their sins or have to pay for them in hell.
Umm, no they didn’t. Jews follow the Old Testament, and Christians follow the Old Testament and New Testament. Christians believe that Jesus was prophesized in the Old Testament and revealed by the Gospels. Christians believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. John 14:6, Jesus says “ I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me”. The Jews do not believe in the divinity of Jesus. God hates sin. But because he is a loving and forgiving god, those who repent, will be forgiven. For Christians, the price of (everyone’s; but is moot for non-believers) our sin was paid for by Jesus. I can’t necessarily speak for the Jews.
Have you never read Galatian 3:8?
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” — Galatians 3:8
Abraham believed. Believed what? The gospel.
The Jews believe a savior will come to save their people. They don't believe it was Jesus
The point of my last comment is that some do believe Jesus is Savior. Abraham knew about the Christ, he rejoiced to see His day. The gospel was preached to Abraham.
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” — John 8:56
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” — Galatians 3:8
In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” — Genesis 22:18
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. — Galatians 3:16
Some Jews did believe. A remnant of them believed the gospel.
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; — Romans 3:21-22
And thus were converted to Christianity
The point is there is one faith, Abraham believed the same gospel Paul did. The OT and NT preach the same message of salvation.
Go back to Reddit.
He hates the iniquity inside the person.
David doesn't say He hates all iniquity, He says He hates all who do iniquity. A sin is not a who. We would never ask anyone "who are your sins?" We only use who when referring to actual people. God hates certain actual people, that's what Psalm 5:5 teaches. There is no getting around it.
Esau would have been one of these. in•iq•ui•ty n. Gross immorality or injustice; wickedness. n. A grossly immoral act; a sin. n. Lack of equity; gross injustice; unrighteousness; wickedness: as, the iniquity of the slave-trade.
Esau was hated by God before he was ever born, before he ever did anything good or bad.
Iniquity is sin. It's commiting a sin. David understood his iniquity was great, which is why he prayed for his to be pardoned. Yet God never hated David.
For Your name’s sake, O Lord, Pardon my iniquity, for it is great. — Psalm 25:11
God loves the world, God loves all his children equally as a group. "You hate all who do iniquity" is a statement about God by David and not God's direct words. If you, like David, looks at God's works in regard to iniquity it would sure look like hatred.
Psalm 5:5 is a prayer by an imperfect man.
Malachi 1-3 is about what men have done directly to earn God's ire. This isn't about hatred of men as any rules but by those who would repeatedly work against the lord
So you believe Psalm 5:5 is a lie and that David wrote a lie saying God hates people He loves?
If the Bible writers lie about God, then what else are they lying about?
You have a very erroneous view of Scripture.
No it's not a lie, ffs.
David views God's reactions to iniquity as being like hate. It's a poetic prayer not a statement on the exact true nature of God.
Man you're really bad at reading and don't seem to understand what the psalms are.
We're done. I'm literally on the same side as you and you needed to be hostile. Go fucking pray on temperance and compassion.
It's an actual hatred for these people. Not hostile at all. I'm not sure how you read into it that way but I tried to help you see things more clearly.
The phrase "all who do iniquity" is a reference to the unchosen.
What is your goal with these posts?
America for the most part believes in a false god. I'm attacking that false god because he is useless and powerless. He can't save anyone, and millions who believe in him will die and go to hell.
In order for someone to worship the true and living God, they must first understand that the god they worship is as useless as a wooden idol.
Tell me more about the true and living God.
It means he loved the world as a collective unit. That doesn't preclude him from hating an individual and you aren't going to invalidate God because you think you are clever which is what this post is really about.
If God loved the world (every individual) then He would hate no individuals. That's basic logic.
I will help you. World in John 3:16 does not mean every individual. It can't, because God doesn't love every individual.
Always remember the bible was written by men. Contradictions between the Old Testament and New Testament is common. New Testament is IMO the way to go.
That's not true. His word is pure. People find contradictions only when misinterpreting.
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Sin is rebellion against God. God hates sin and sin must be punished.
But He loved (everyone) the world so that He paid the penalty for sin Himself and offers grace freely to all who accept it. You choose.
If you don't accept His free gift of salvation, you get to pay for your sins yourself.
Why would anyone have to pay for their sins themselves if you think Jesus paid for them already?
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me."
If you don't believe what God says, that is part of your rebellion against Him. He has offered to pay, but if you don't accept the offer, then you pay.
He has not merely offered to pay. His work on the cross actually paid for sins.
Good explanation at gotquestions.org
This guy's explanation is super sloppy and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Esau's relationship with the Edomites is a spiritual one. Esau is Edom, spiritually. God hated Esau, meaning Edom. They are one of the two peoples the Lord talked about when speaking to Rebekah.
The Lord said to her, “Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger.” — Genesis 25:23
Two nations, two peoples. One loved by God, and one hated by God. Israel and Edom, the Israelites and Edomites, Jacob and Esau.
He uses Genesis 33:9 as proof that Esau was blessed.
But Esau said, “I have plenty, my brother; let what you have be your own.” — Genesis 33:9
What a stupid argument. I know Matt Slick from years ago, I have debated him before. Has he not read:
Behold, these are the wicked; And always at ease, they have increased in wealth. Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure And washed my hands in innocence; For I have been stricken all day long And chastened every morning. If I had said, “I will speak thus,” Behold, I would have betrayed the generation of Your children. When I pondered to understand this, It was troublesome in my sight Until I came into the sanctuary of God; Then I perceived their end. Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction. How they are destroyed in a moment! They are utterly swept away by sudden terrors! Like a dream when one awakes, O Lord, when aroused, You will despise their form. — Psalm 73:12-20
God hated Esau, and by extension all of Edom, which is a spiritual place where all of the wicked spiritually dwell.