Imho the original catholic (universal) church continues in what is now called the Orthodox Church. After 1400 years the Roman Church broke away from the original Body of Christ/Church. They turned Christianity into a religion known as Western Christianity. In the West all iterations/splinters came from the first Protestants/divorcees ie the Roman Church. "The Way" by Oxford scholar and convert Ware was/is an eye opening, life altering read. Each sentence and paragraph is soul piercing and illuminates the huuuge differences between the original Orthodox Christianity and the later Western religion called Christianity. Enjoy!!
This agnostic/atheist[depending on my mood that day] commends you for a fine bit of writing. Your points are accurate, well reasoned, and well sourced.
IF I were to accept the delusion of ANY religion, in this case X-tainity, it would be the Orthodox form. We have some communities of exiled Russian Orthodox X-tains in my State, from the time of Lenin. It now 'a couple of generations' removed from 1915, and the Church is doing well. I like the fact of married clergy, and more 'antique' forms of services{ I attend once or twice, just to see it}
Thank you for an educated Post-- for a happy change, on Religion
Disagree. There are based Christians all throughout Christendom. The Catholic Church stays getting infiltrated and we have confirmation from Podesta’s emails. Pope Francis is no Ratzinger. We are past political parties and denominations. Focus on the good people wherever they are. It’s the God-fearing and patriotic vs everyone else.
Anglicans are complete SJWs and tons of non-denoms and other protestants are too. I guess you could count bible-belt baptists as "based" but that fire and brimstone crap isn't exactly Christ-like.
Anglicans in the West maybe but not all over. The problem with all those institutions is the traditional and conservative don’t play hardball from the very beginning. They are too busy living their lives and paying their tithes. The weirdos who only want power are emboldened and proceed to slowly hijack the church. What happened to the Episcopal Church was a tragedy. Don’t think the Catholic Church isn’t being attacked from within. How do you think it ended up with so many child abuse scandals?
The Pope is a marxist and most Catholics are brainwashing into following every word out of his foul mouth even if it contradicts the bible.
Catholicism also creates a environment of faith through guilt. It is a disgusting version of religious thought imo.
Priests are also treated as being of great power and reverence. That profession attracts the worst of humanity as they realize they can hide behind that veil.
And? The Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution yet the elected officials that take after them haven't exactly been following it.
To all the religious downvoting me save your click. I studied Catholicism for decades and studied the Catechism and the bible quite well.
The roots of Catholic faith taught by the church is guilt. It creates a negative emotional relationship with faith and leaves no room for individual growth.
I love the bible and the lessons in it. Particularly the Deutrocanonical books and the new testament. Not the establishment that is the corrupt Church or its globalist leader.
I am not a fan of Francis, but the idea that the central idea of Catholicism is guilt is simply untrue. The central idea is salvation by way of God incarnate.
"taught by the Catholic church". It's no surprise that the church uses emotional manipulation to lobby for donations etc. I grew up in a third world. Catholic guilt is real and is used to blind the people to reality.
Same goes for the prayer without action mantras.
Again no issues with the faithful or people who understand reality. But there is a fundemental problem with the Church as it stands and it holds too much power.
At the time the bible was compiled the Roman church was still part of the catholic ie universal Body of Christ which still exists under the modern name of the Orthodox Church. After 1400 the Roman church formally divorced herself with the tragic consequences that are still playing out. I mean zero disrespect to any follower of Christ. He loves us all.
One of the first stories that sold me on Trump was his meeting with Evangelical leaders in Trump Tower. He told them: “I think you’ve gotten weak in speaking up and making your own voice heard. You, me included, as Christians have been spoiled by a long period when Christianity was acceptable.”.
Oh how right he was, that Christian leaders are terribly weak on making their voice heard. Instead, their flock listen to BLM. Listen to TikTok. To Media. To Arts and Entertainment. To Academia. To Business. To everything else, and the silence is terrible. And that is how the church will be beaten, if ever. By irrelevance and a lack of urgency.
I love President Trump. He put it so succintly, in a way that can be heard and understood.
Walk around with MAGA hats. Most of the strangers giving you a thumbs up are going to be women and young teen or young men. From that group, I have yet to get a bird.
Every reliious leader who starts following and bowing to a lesser authority forfeits his leadership...
When we follow and advocate for true justice, freedom, peace... we are leaders in our own right. When we defy those who would condemn us for striving for these things, we shape our path and inspire others.
Leadership is not a fixed title, it's manifest in actions, inspiration and hope. When leadership takes a different form, it tends to be dictatorship or governance at best instead.
He didn't forget. If it didn't happen, all would not have been exposed the way it has. Trump had enough intelligence to make EOs, have quite a lot of people and expectations ready to manage. Even so, remember that Trump may not have foreseen everything, as he is only human, but God has and it's all in God's hands. His is the glory to be seen. He is using Trump for His plans. Just as He does for all who follow Him and even those who don't.
I for one am grateful for every day of this trial. The tree of liberty gets shaken more each day and the positions of every person becomes clearer and clearer. Every day. This is needed. I for one have seen and cannot unsee. Others are having their eyes opened every day. It is a blessing.
People need to know/remember that this entire election was a sting operation and it worked like a fucking charm. Now it's just a process of waking up the masses while at same time making moves and putting pieces into position for the upcoming deadline.
Be pissed, we all should be, but don't think for a second that this isn't how it's SUPPOSED to be going. It has to be done in such a way that the People KNOW what happened in order to wake up to how we've been deceived for decades so as to not allow it to happen in our lifetimes again.
It's frustrating and understandable of course to want blood, I think most of us do actually, but not to let that anger blind you to what's really going on or to prevent us from what's truly necessary to vanquish this entire party to Evil rather than just a few of it's public figures; if we act rashly and only take out the ones we can see, then the rest of the beast merely replaces them and carries on, and we will NOT have that anymore.
Were Reagan around to respond, I'd think he'd say that he would like to have more of Trump's qualities, especially his intellect and street savvy, but would not want to have to maintain that level of energy or workload.
Reagan was great, had some flaws and made some mistakes. President Trump is on an entirely higher level in terms of capabilities. Both are good men at heart, which is what made them both hated so much by the left.
Reagan did not lay the foundation for any mass gun bans. The Firearm Owners Protection Act had its foundation built by a bipartisan group of congressmen in 1986. Then Democrat swamp goblin faggots Rangel and Hughes amended it to close the machine gun registry (ban new MGs essentially) with an emergency overnight uncounted voice vote as an attempt to poison pill the bill because it was an expansion of gun rights. Reagan ultimately signed the bill anyway because it was still a net expansion of gun rights. But Reagan was a Hollywood guy, not sure when Hollywood became totally controlled but it’s probably safe to assume he had to eat the walnut sauce or suck off some gross fat “Hollywood type” #metoo style to get his start there. Also amnesty was his biggest mistake.
Reagan banned handguns in CA as governor. So it doesnt surprise me that gun rights were not a concern of his as president. should have vetoed it, and the NRA helped by backing the bill. What were the pro gun provisions in it prior to the hughe's ammendent? Reagan also helped build the media cartel we have now alongside building up the deep state spook bohemoth with his VP Bush.
The ATF was further empowered by that bill. And again this all ends with win and lose, and so far the result has been a net loss over time for our rights.
Interesting what schools selectively leave out of history. I never realized how much sacrifice went into us being able to read the bible until I took a History of the English Language course in college and that was only because my professor was based.
Also, the more contemporary enemies pile on us with post-modern toxicity the more people get added to God's army. I know people who weren't particularly religious before seeing what's going on today and suddenly start thinking very differently.
Beckett's murder at the hands of Henry's knights was equivalent to 9/11 or the the dropping of the A bombs in its impact. King Henry understood his mistake and went to Canterbury and crawled on hands and knees for absolution from the Pope.
This is true in every authoritarian system. They are all of the Devil and cannot abide free men. “The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot” (Rom. 8:7).
Yep. Went to a friend’s wedding at a Catholic Church. I honestly don’t know all the restrictions but you gotta show your passport just to attend then you’ll for sure get monitored.
I know they got 3 branches of a certain church which I was surprised to find out.
The reason for Henry's famous outburst was that on Christmas Day 1170, Thomas excommunicated some bishops who were supportive of the king (including the Archbishop of York), with the words:
May they all be damned by Jesus Christ!
Henry's words have changed over the years
From in 1180 by Grim, who was present when Beckett was killed and nearly lost an arm trying to stop it
What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born cleric!
in 1772
[he said] that he was very unfortunate to have maintained so many cowardly and ungrateful men in his court, none of whom would revenge him of the injuries he sustained from one turbulent priest.
to 1821
Will none of these lazy insignificant persons, whom I maintain, deliver me from this turbulent priest?
To today
Who will rid me of this [turbulent / troublesome / meddlesome] priest?
Very interesting. A direct shot at China, an indirect shot at governors and other asshats shutting down churches, a reminder that we need to fight for our liberties (of all kinds).
And a wonderful tribute to Thomas Becket. Along with an invitation to gather together to commemorate his martyrdom.
“I invite the people of the United States to observe the day in schools and churches and customary places of meeting with appropriate ceremonies in commemoration of the life and legacy of Thomas Becket.”
You thought we gathered bigly at Christmas and Thanksgiving! Might as well gather for Becketday too!
Just calm down. I read the whole document and I'm not being rude to you, so why are you being rude to me?
I'm talking about the actual historical situation btw. And yeah I think it's a little bit of a stretch to make it purely a statement against lockdown - I think it's respectful of history and a historical man - I don't know if it has an ulterior motive.
Could be.
And yeah I really don't think this example translates very well to governors inferring with churches during lockdown. These situations are not the same. The Papacy was protecting clergy from serious prosecution of all forms. Some might argue justifiably. Some might not. Highly doubt that Trump's point was that churches should be able to conduct their own trials and hand out sentences as light as demotions for murder.
Serious question: If a mosque declared Trump a tyrant and decided that all it's members would be shielded from state prosecution for crimes as serious as murder under the authority of the Grand Mufti in Iran, would you be happy about it?
Of course Islam is terrible, but we're talking about British history. At the time, Catholics were operating churches that answered to a foreign entity - the Papacy.
Also didn't they used to kill apostates on all sides of the church? Even today there is a "punishment" for leaving the Catholic Church. It's called excommunication.
If you leave my church we simply carry on with our lives and maybe send you a "what's up" txt now and then..
Islam should be outlawed not on the basis of its religious doctrine - as plenty of people falsely view Christianity as barbaric - but on its political ties. Like the Papacy, Muslims are beholden to the Mufti or similar such as the Ayatollah. They do not "convert", they are assigned at birth. Thus their religion is a political categorisation operated from a foreign base - not a pure expression of religious freedom.
Also didn't they used to kill apostates on all sides of the church?
Yes. Used to. The Church killed tens of thousands of people so I get your argument in this thread that the Church was not any better than a tyrannical king. If we wanted to celebrate a martyr for freedom of speech, we should celebrate Giordano Bruno and not the guy in the OP.
However, you need to put Trump's declaration in the context of the year 2020, where Christians are persecuted by a Marxist tyranny, for instance by imposing homo degeneracy.
Trump is clearly taking the side of the Christians, and not of the Church.
Trump is clearly taking the side of the Christians, and not of the Church.
This is how freedom (for more than the elites) was brought into this world. As the rulers struggled over whether the Church or royalty would control the people, the would be rulers ended up having to appeal to Christian doctrines and values for their legitimacy.
A thousand years later and we are still fighting to be free of these would be tyrants.
Giordano Bruno was executed by secular authorities primarily for being a spy, secondly for grifting money all over Europe from a bunch of crowned heads, and only thirdly for practicing magic and teaching heresy and the occult instead of science. Anybody who thinks Bruno was a martyr has not paid attention to his case.
AFAIK, the Catholic Church (East and West) never executed anybody for being an apostate. You could become an atheist, Jewish, Muslim, or pagan, as much as you wanted. Now obviously the religious authorities got worried if people were spreading non-Christian ideas or practiciing non-Christian worship, but it was generally the secular authorities that were really worried about it. But even then, in most times and places they were only concerned about religious beliefs that led to people going against secular laws (although obviously secular laws included things we think of as religious today, such as tithing to the local church).
In general, it was considered better to leave heretics and apostates alive, because that gave people more chance to change their minds and come back to the Church.
People are assholes. there was no papal decree to kill apostates. Once of the inquisitions got pretty bad in spain, but that's how fraud was dealt with in spain back then, it was mostly the state as well. Melania will convert Don if she hasn't yet. And barron is receiving a Catholic upbringing. This pope sucks but when we get a good one it's awesome.
The witch hunting was done by Protestants too, mass hysteria is a bitch.
Well if true, the Pope and "Saints" were pretty quiet about it. I know of at least Poland who made it punishable by death to be apostate and I'm sure there were others. Hardly got shut down by the leadership.
The inquisitions seems to be a mixed bag, but mostly devolved into a political tool.
I don't think Don should convert. He's fine where he is. Personally I find the idea of a "good" Pope somewhat of an oxymoron, but that's just my opinion.
And I did say "all sides of the church," for the record.
Hold fast to that line, my frens, that was almost in the official seal of the United States, for it shows us the way forward in this time of covid, globalism, and crisis:
Wonderful to see this. Glad the President made this proclamation.
Pray to God He doesn't allow this election to be stolen.
Some years ago I stood at the place in Canterbury Cathedral where Becket was slain - the place that had been splattered by his blood and brains.
After the tremendous outrage that came from his murder, Henry II denied he ordered Becket's murder and maintained the four Knights (and a cleric who accompanied them to the murder) misunderstood him in a moment of exasperation. Of course, he would say that. Who but God knows the truth?
The knights eventually visited the pope in Rome to beg forgiveness, and were ordered to serve 14 years duty in the Holy Land.
As for King Henry II, in 1173-74 he had to put down a rebellion led by his own wife & sons, and beat back an invasion of northern England by the Scots. After returning to England from his other kingdom in western France, he decided to perform penance at Canterbury. He put on pilgrim's garb and walked barefoot several miles, eventually leaving bloody footprints by the time he arrived. Inside the cathedral he ordered monks to whip him. Some of them had witnessed Becket's murder 3 years prior. They beat him bloody with near 300 lashes.
The very next day Henry learned the King of Scotland had been captured, and he took that for a sign he was in good with the Lord. He would also go on to defeat the rebellion and sent his wife to captivity, but reconciled with his two sons.
Yes, the state shouldn't have supremacy over people's beliefs, but no, the church shouldn't have supremacy over the state either.
The church during that time wasn't looking for state freedom, but state supremacy. Limiting the power of the church is as noble as limiting the power of kings - both can lead to tyranny.
Freedom of thought is freedom not just of religion, but from religion.
As Americans, we were first united by our belief that “rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God” and that defending liberty is more important than life itself. If we are to continue to be the land of the free, no government official, no governor, no bureaucrat, no judge, and no legislator must be allowed to decree what is orthodox in matters of religion or to require religious believers to violate their consciences. No right is more fundamental to a peaceful, prosperous, and virtuous society than the right to follow one’s religious convictions. As I declared in Krasiński Square in Warsaw, Poland on July 6, 2017, the people of America and the people of the world still cry out: “We want God.”
You missed the point. He is saying the government needs to stop fucking with people in general, yes religion wise but in all other ways too. Preparing people for what’s coming and reminding us why we have to fight for freedom.
we are to continue to be the land of the free, no government official, no governor, no bureaucrat, no judge, and no legislator must be allowed to decree what is orthodox in matters of religion or to require religious believers to violate their consciences.
So tell me what was "conscientious" about Papal authority in a foreign country and the church having a mechanism by which to shield murderers.
That doesn't sound like a matter of religion at all. It sounds like politics.
You missed the point. He is saying the government needs to stop fucking with people in general, yes religion wise but in all other ways too. Preparing people for what’s coming and reminding us why we have to fight for freedom.
The "government" of Rome, the Vatican...was kinda fucking with British people. Making it so that only the church could punish the clergy. How is this about religious freedom?
Yes, but don't you wish we had a church power that could check the government at this point?
Americans spent the last 20 years demonizing the church to where they hold no clout, so now the government can just do whatever it wants.
It sure would be easy to organize resistance to some of these bullshit coronavirus edicts if we all met every other sunday.
No I don't really want my church to have the power to hold in-house trials for it's members, to shield them from prosecution on behalf of a political entity in Rome.
God has plenty of power for his church. Aside from staying out of our service etc, I don't think we should be able to usurp laws against murder by "defrocking" the guilty.
It was all political back then. It was barely even about faith. These guys were just fighting for control over Britain.
Kings derived their claims of power due to being 'appointed by God'. So if you defied the Pope, he could excommunicate you - removing your claim to the throne, and expressly encouraging revolution and invasion.
These tussles between crown and Rome were never about religion, but power. Becket didn't deserve to be murdered, but at the same time he was defending the principle of Roman supremacy over British laws.
He wasn't an icon of freedom. Just because he was a victim of tyranny doesn't mean he wasn't a proponent of a competing form of tyranny.
The process of limiting the political power of the church is as noble as that of limiting the power of kings. Look at Iran for what can happen otherwise.
Would anyone here really want the current Pope to effectively have power over Trump? The ability to greenlight the US military to oust him, and handpick his own successor?
Well said. Of course, I would never judge a man like Becket. History is full of examples of bravery that are not black and white. He also did not deserve to be murdered.
But the irony is, if he had his way and the murderer came from his church - he could not be punished with death or anything else. Only "defrocked" and sent away.
Oh shit, you didn't read what I wrote.
You don't like in-house trials, got it. The government has been running in-house bullshit trials, why not the church? Now go back and read what I said. The church has been CASTRATED over the last 20 years. Religious freedom is the gateway to all freedom.
I did read what you wrote. Sorry if my answer wasn't good enough for you...
Of course I don't like in-house religious trials. That's exactly what Sharia is. Why are you dismissive about that? Can you explain why you support them if you do?
I don't think anyone should hold in-house "bullshit" trials. Not the church or the state.
I don't think religious "freedom" needs to be protected by allowing a foreign leader (such as the Pope) operating from a foreign country (inside the Vatican) to usurp the legal system of the
nation the church resides in.
Your point would be so much better and more idealistically acceptable if you removed the foreign influence. But in this case, you can't.
Of course I'd love for smaller government, but I don't know if literal shariah law is the answer.
nah nah nah nah. We both don't like the corrupt in-house trials. We can go on for days about things we do not like when any group gets too powerful.
My point is an about-face:
Religion brings a competing set of moral guide lines. Those prescribed by God. To rival/trump the moral guidelines created by law. It creates a competing duality. There should be no moral monopoly. This has happened because the church has lost influence. The demonization of the church in the last 20 years was a total fuckin farce. The gay marriage issue and the abortion issue were presented to the public in such a way as to attack the church for years, then ultimately "win" through fiat in the Supreme Court. And the government didn't just "win," it forced acceptance of (gay & abortion) ideology which was directly COUNTER to the teachings of the church.
If you look at the ass-backwards the public discourse on gay marriage and abortion, the Supreme Court's ultimate iron-fisted bench-legislation on those issues, and the resultant heeling of the Church, you will start to understand just how long communists have been grinding down American institutions.
So, I'm pro-church because apparently we need more of those nowadays, but not because I think you should go to church or because I want the Pope to make law. I hope I clarified the communism vs. church issue there.
tl;dr: You seem to be worried about control, when the answer is more freedom.
Freedom of religion covers all the good bits of freedom from religion.
Freedom from religion is just a leftist rewording which gives them cover for using state power to abolish the free exercise of religion in public places.
Never use freedom 'from' religion, it is not a thing, let alone a constitutional thing.
PS The church did aim for supremacy at times; Becket's murder was not one of them.
Pretty cool history and interesting to note that most haven’t heard about it in the USA. I grew up Catholic & never heard of him. Only heard about him when I visited Canterbury, England. Thomas Becket has the top of his head sliced off. Cool town w/ lots of history and only about 40k residents.
When I was young I think most Americans were familiar with Thomas Becket (or Thomas á Becket, as he was often called) due to their high school reading of Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales, if nothing else.
We didn’t read that, or at least I didn’t, though it’s famous enough that I’ve heard the name. I literally learned about it at the Canterbury Tales attraction in Canterbury England, the Cathedral there, and a bit of the Googles. The stories were a bit saucier than I would have expected for 1400. Good stuff really.
This proclamation is fantastic. Thomas didn't just rise through the ranks - he was a friend of Henry II's, who made Thomas chancellor and later appointed him Archbishop of Canterbury.
Instead of Thomas helping Henry II put the king's interests first, Thomas defended the rights of the church against the king. He also became an ascetic.
On this day, we celebrate and revere Thomas Becket’s courageous stand for religious liberty and we reaffirm our call to end religious persecution worldwide. In my historic address to the United Nations last year, I made clear that America stands with believers in every country who ask only for the freedom to live according to the faith that is within their own hearts. I also stated that global bureaucrats have absolutely no business attacking the sovereignty of nations that wish to protect innocent life, reflecting the belief held by the United States and many other countries that every child — born and unborn — is a sacred gift from God. Earlier this year, I signed an Executive Order to prioritize religious freedom as a core dimension of United States foreign policy. We have directed every Ambassador — and the over 13,000 United States Foreign Service officers and specialists — in more than 195 countries to promote, defend, and support religious freedom as a central pillar of American diplomacy.
We pray for religious believers everywhere who suffer persecution for their faith. We especially pray for their brave and inspiring shepherds — like Cardinal Joseph Zen of Hong Kong and Pastor Wang Yi of Chengdu — who are tireless witnesses to hope.
"As Americans, we were first united by our belief that “rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God” and that defending liberty is more important than life itself."
"We pray for religious believers everywhere who suffer persecution for their faith. We especially pray for their brave and inspiring shepherds — like Cardinal Joseph Zen of Hong Kong and Pastor Wang Yi of Chengdu — who are tireless witnesses to hope."
This was clearly meant to send a message to the lockdown Governors and the despots like Deblasio and Lightfoot.
And Inslee, plantation overseer of the Chinese slave colony called Washington state.
Blessing in disguise I think. The strong will remain and rebuild the Church. The remnant.
The "catholic" church is now found in Evangelical Protestant churches rather than the Catholic "Church."
Protestantism took over Catholicism but not entirely. The gates of hell SHALL NOT prevail.
Imho the original catholic (universal) church continues in what is now called the Orthodox Church. After 1400 years the Roman Church broke away from the original Body of Christ/Church. They turned Christianity into a religion known as Western Christianity. In the West all iterations/splinters came from the first Protestants/divorcees ie the Roman Church. "The Way" by Oxford scholar and convert Ware was/is an eye opening, life altering read. Each sentence and paragraph is soul piercing and illuminates the huuuge differences between the original Orthodox Christianity and the later Western religion called Christianity. Enjoy!!
This agnostic/atheist[depending on my mood that day] commends you for a fine bit of writing. Your points are accurate, well reasoned, and well sourced.
IF I were to accept the delusion of ANY religion, in this case X-tainity, it would be the Orthodox form. We have some communities of exiled Russian Orthodox X-tains in my State, from the time of Lenin. It now 'a couple of generations' removed from 1915, and the Church is doing well. I like the fact of married clergy, and more 'antique' forms of services{ I attend once or twice, just to see it}
Thank you for an educated Post-- for a happy change, on Religion
Many Catholic priests are cucked, and the vast majority of protestants are cucked. The only based religious leaders that remain are Catholics tbh
Disagree. There are based Christians all throughout Christendom. The Catholic Church stays getting infiltrated and we have confirmation from Podesta’s emails. Pope Francis is no Ratzinger. We are past political parties and denominations. Focus on the good people wherever they are. It’s the God-fearing and patriotic vs everyone else.
?!
BS
Anglicans are complete SJWs and tons of non-denoms and other protestants are too. I guess you could count bible-belt baptists as "based" but that fire and brimstone crap isn't exactly Christ-like.
Anglicans in the West maybe but not all over. The problem with all those institutions is the traditional and conservative don’t play hardball from the very beginning. They are too busy living their lives and paying their tithes. The weirdos who only want power are emboldened and proceed to slowly hijack the church. What happened to the Episcopal Church was a tragedy. Don’t think the Catholic Church isn’t being attacked from within. How do you think it ended up with so many child abuse scandals?
The Pope is a marxist and most Catholics are brainwashing into following every word out of his foul mouth even if it contradicts the bible.
Catholicism also creates a environment of faith through guilt. It is a disgusting version of religious thought imo.
Priests are also treated as being of great power and reverence. That profession attracts the worst of humanity as they realize they can hide behind that veil.
Catholics wrote the Bible.
And? The Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution yet the elected officials that take after them haven't exactly been following it.
To all the religious downvoting me save your click. I studied Catholicism for decades and studied the Catechism and the bible quite well.
The roots of Catholic faith taught by the church is guilt. It creates a negative emotional relationship with faith and leaves no room for individual growth.
I love the bible and the lessons in it. Particularly the Deutrocanonical books and the new testament. Not the establishment that is the corrupt Church or its globalist leader.
I am not a fan of Francis, but the idea that the central idea of Catholicism is guilt is simply untrue. The central idea is salvation by way of God incarnate.
Read what I said.
You are reading past.
"taught by the Catholic church". It's no surprise that the church uses emotional manipulation to lobby for donations etc. I grew up in a third world. Catholic guilt is real and is used to blind the people to reality.
Same goes for the prayer without action mantras.
Again no issues with the faithful or people who understand reality. But there is a fundemental problem with the Church as it stands and it holds too much power.
At the time the bible was compiled the Roman church was still part of the catholic ie universal Body of Christ which still exists under the modern name of the Orthodox Church. After 1400 the Roman church formally divorced herself with the tragic consequences that are still playing out. I mean zero disrespect to any follower of Christ. He loves us all.
Big Disagree. The Roman Catholic Church is Christ's Church on Earth, dating back to St. Peter. The Orthodox stand in protest of the Papacy.
Google: Clergy Response Teams and 501c3 Churches -- those were given to us by friend of "Little Israel" Lyndon Johnson, JFK's best buddy and pal.
Yup. Cucked by cash. Fuck LBJ and 501c
One of the first stories that sold me on Trump was his meeting with Evangelical leaders in Trump Tower. He told them: “I think you’ve gotten weak in speaking up and making your own voice heard. You, me included, as Christians have been spoiled by a long period when Christianity was acceptable.”.
Oh how right he was, that Christian leaders are terribly weak on making their voice heard. Instead, their flock listen to BLM. Listen to TikTok. To Media. To Arts and Entertainment. To Academia. To Business. To everything else, and the silence is terrible. And that is how the church will be beaten, if ever. By irrelevance and a lack of urgency.
I love President Trump. He put it so succintly, in a way that can be heard and understood.
Well said. Well said.
No they won't. Have you seen these little faggot teenagers and tiktok generation? WE are the ones blessed enough to have experienced him.
Walk around with MAGA hats. Most of the strangers giving you a thumbs up are going to be women and young teen or young men. From that group, I have yet to get a bird.
We need to win first, otherwise history will be written by the enemy, as it currently is.
We can be the new leaders. Stand up for what you believe in, in your own life.
Every reliious leader who starts following and bowing to a lesser authority forfeits his leadership...
When we follow and advocate for true justice, freedom, peace... we are leaders in our own right. When we defy those who would condemn us for striving for these things, we shape our path and inspire others.
Leadership is not a fixed title, it's manifest in actions, inspiration and hope. When leadership takes a different form, it tends to be dictatorship or governance at best instead.
You doomers are telling me he planned for THIS while at the same time fucked around and forgot to keep tabs on the obvious election fuckery?
Not a chance in hell.
He didn't forget. If it didn't happen, all would not have been exposed the way it has. Trump had enough intelligence to make EOs, have quite a lot of people and expectations ready to manage. Even so, remember that Trump may not have foreseen everything, as he is only human, but God has and it's all in God's hands. His is the glory to be seen. He is using Trump for His plans. Just as He does for all who follow Him and even those who don't. I for one am grateful for every day of this trial. The tree of liberty gets shaken more each day and the positions of every person becomes clearer and clearer. Every day. This is needed. I for one have seen and cannot unsee. Others are having their eyes opened every day. It is a blessing.
Yes.
People need to know/remember that this entire election was a sting operation and it worked like a fucking charm. Now it's just a process of waking up the masses while at same time making moves and putting pieces into position for the upcoming deadline.
Be pissed, we all should be, but don't think for a second that this isn't how it's SUPPOSED to be going. It has to be done in such a way that the People KNOW what happened in order to wake up to how we've been deceived for decades so as to not allow it to happen in our lifetimes again.
It's frustrating and understandable of course to want blood, I think most of us do actually, but not to let that anger blind you to what's really going on or to prevent us from what's truly necessary to vanquish this entire party to Evil rather than just a few of it's public figures; if we act rashly and only take out the ones we can see, then the rest of the beast merely replaces them and carries on, and we will NOT have that anymore.
Patience is the virtue of victors. God wins.
Exactly.
Magnificent! Who's the last President who could have issued a statement like that? Reagan?
Regan wishes he was like Trump.
Were Reagan around to respond, I'd think he'd say that he would like to have more of Trump's qualities, especially his intellect and street savvy, but would not want to have to maintain that level of energy or workload.
Reagan was great, had some flaws and made some mistakes. President Trump is on an entirely higher level in terms of capabilities. Both are good men at heart, which is what made them both hated so much by the left.
Bush was pro religion some of the time, when it was politically convenient. So was Obama and Clinton.
Reagan wasnt the man you think he is, he laid the foundation for big tech monopolies, mass gun bans, the CIA/three letter monster, and amnesty.
Reagan did not lay the foundation for any mass gun bans. The Firearm Owners Protection Act had its foundation built by a bipartisan group of congressmen in 1986. Then Democrat swamp goblin faggots Rangel and Hughes amended it to close the machine gun registry (ban new MGs essentially) with an emergency overnight uncounted voice vote as an attempt to poison pill the bill because it was an expansion of gun rights. Reagan ultimately signed the bill anyway because it was still a net expansion of gun rights. But Reagan was a Hollywood guy, not sure when Hollywood became totally controlled but it’s probably safe to assume he had to eat the walnut sauce or suck off some gross fat “Hollywood type” #metoo style to get his start there. Also amnesty was his biggest mistake.
Reagan banned handguns in CA as governor. So it doesnt surprise me that gun rights were not a concern of his as president. should have vetoed it, and the NRA helped by backing the bill. What were the pro gun provisions in it prior to the hughe's ammendent? Reagan also helped build the media cartel we have now alongside building up the deep state spook bohemoth with his VP Bush.
Lol how about you read the text of FOPA and then you’ll be qualified to weigh in on it.
Also the Mulford Act was shit but it didn’t “ban handguns in CA”.
The ATF was further empowered by that bill. And again this all ends with win and lose, and so far the result has been a net loss over time for our rights.
Specifically how was the ATF empowered by FOPA?
I didn't even know about this person. An amazing Brit Pede from way back.
Interesting what schools selectively leave out of history. I never realized how much sacrifice went into us being able to read the bible until I took a History of the English Language course in college and that was only because my professor was based.
Also, the more contemporary enemies pile on us with post-modern toxicity the more people get added to God's army. I know people who weren't particularly religious before seeing what's going on today and suddenly start thinking very differently.
Beckett's murder at the hands of Henry's knights was equivalent to 9/11 or the the dropping of the A bombs in its impact. King Henry understood his mistake and went to Canterbury and crawled on hands and knees for absolution from the Pope.
I believe it was more symbolic whacks but who knows? Our Ancestors were brutal.
History has long gone from telling the annals, good or bad. To shaping a point of view for you to adhere to.
The school-sponsored "Dark Ages" was actually the Age of consolidation of fight for everything we hold dear in the West.
Schools want you to hate Europe and its history precisely for that reason.
Proclamation or warning of what’s to come if we don’t defeat these commies?
and Chengdu, a city of 14 million inside red China. Big slap in the face to CCP for persecuting believers.
This only brings in even more light into how egregiously dangerous to the faith the current pope is.
He has refused time and time again to speak up against the travesties committed against the Christian faith in China.
He already sold them out with that secret Beijing-Vatican deal. Why would he speak out when he is a Marxist first?
This is true in every authoritarian system. They are all of the Devil and cannot abide free men. “The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot” (Rom. 8:7).
Yep. Went to a friend’s wedding at a Catholic Church. I honestly don’t know all the restrictions but you gotta show your passport just to attend then you’ll for sure get monitored.
I know they got 3 branches of a certain church which I was surprised to find out.
a challenge to all pedes worthy of standing in Washington D.C. on Jan 6th.
Yes.
The reason for Henry's famous outburst was that on Christmas Day 1170, Thomas excommunicated some bishops who were supportive of the king (including the Archbishop of York), with the words:
Henry's words have changed over the years
From in 1180 by Grim, who was present when Beckett was killed and nearly lost an arm trying to stop it
in 1772
to 1821
To today
Very interesting. A direct shot at China, an indirect shot at governors and other asshats shutting down churches, a reminder that we need to fight for our liberties (of all kinds).
And a wonderful tribute to Thomas Becket. Along with an invitation to gather together to commemorate his martyrdom.
How is it that at all? This was aimed at removing the in-house trials that the Papacy conducted in England to protect its clergy from prosecution.
For instance instead of being hung for murder, you just get "defrocked".
This type of stuff is exactly where all those recent lawsuits arose from. They kept doing it.
Try reading to the end next time champ
“I invite the people of the United States to observe the day in schools and churches and customary places of meeting with appropriate ceremonies in commemoration of the life and legacy of Thomas Becket.”
You thought we gathered bigly at Christmas and Thanksgiving! Might as well gather for Becketday too!
Just calm down. I read the whole document and I'm not being rude to you, so why are you being rude to me?
I'm talking about the actual historical situation btw. And yeah I think it's a little bit of a stretch to make it purely a statement against lockdown - I think it's respectful of history and a historical man - I don't know if it has an ulterior motive.
Could be.
And yeah I really don't think this example translates very well to governors inferring with churches during lockdown. These situations are not the same. The Papacy was protecting clergy from serious prosecution of all forms. Some might argue justifiably. Some might not. Highly doubt that Trump's point was that churches should be able to conduct their own trials and hand out sentences as light as demotions for murder.
Lol. I tried to get away from it but the threads keep finding me!
Serious question, are you Cuomo's staffer?
Serious question: If a mosque declared Trump a tyrant and decided that all it's members would be shielded from state prosecution for crimes as serious as murder under the authority of the Grand Mufti in Iran, would you be happy about it?
False equivalence. Christianity is a religion, Islam is a death cult.
A cult that kills its own members if they try to leave (apostasy) must be made illegal. Islam should be outlawed.
It's not false. Leave aside biases for now.
Of course Islam is terrible, but we're talking about British history. At the time, Catholics were operating churches that answered to a foreign entity - the Papacy.
Also didn't they used to kill apostates on all sides of the church? Even today there is a "punishment" for leaving the Catholic Church. It's called excommunication.
If you leave my church we simply carry on with our lives and maybe send you a "what's up" txt now and then..
Islam should be outlawed not on the basis of its religious doctrine - as plenty of people falsely view Christianity as barbaric - but on its political ties. Like the Papacy, Muslims are beholden to the Mufti or similar such as the Ayatollah. They do not "convert", they are assigned at birth. Thus their religion is a political categorisation operated from a foreign base - not a pure expression of religious freedom.
Yes. Used to. The Church killed tens of thousands of people so I get your argument in this thread that the Church was not any better than a tyrannical king. If we wanted to celebrate a martyr for freedom of speech, we should celebrate Giordano Bruno and not the guy in the OP.
However, you need to put Trump's declaration in the context of the year 2020, where Christians are persecuted by a Marxist tyranny, for instance by imposing homo degeneracy. Trump is clearly taking the side of the Christians, and not of the Church.
I agree.
This is how freedom (for more than the elites) was brought into this world. As the rulers struggled over whether the Church or royalty would control the people, the would be rulers ended up having to appeal to Christian doctrines and values for their legitimacy.
A thousand years later and we are still fighting to be free of these would be tyrants.
Giordano Bruno was executed by secular authorities primarily for being a spy, secondly for grifting money all over Europe from a bunch of crowned heads, and only thirdly for practicing magic and teaching heresy and the occult instead of science. Anybody who thinks Bruno was a martyr has not paid attention to his case.
AFAIK, the Catholic Church (East and West) never executed anybody for being an apostate. You could become an atheist, Jewish, Muslim, or pagan, as much as you wanted. Now obviously the religious authorities got worried if people were spreading non-Christian ideas or practiciing non-Christian worship, but it was generally the secular authorities that were really worried about it. But even then, in most times and places they were only concerned about religious beliefs that led to people going against secular laws (although obviously secular laws included things we think of as religious today, such as tithing to the local church).
In general, it was considered better to leave heretics and apostates alive, because that gave people more chance to change their minds and come back to the Church.
People are assholes. there was no papal decree to kill apostates. Once of the inquisitions got pretty bad in spain, but that's how fraud was dealt with in spain back then, it was mostly the state as well. Melania will convert Don if she hasn't yet. And barron is receiving a Catholic upbringing. This pope sucks but when we get a good one it's awesome.
The witch hunting was done by Protestants too, mass hysteria is a bitch.
Well if true, the Pope and "Saints" were pretty quiet about it. I know of at least Poland who made it punishable by death to be apostate and I'm sure there were others. Hardly got shut down by the leadership.
The inquisitions seems to be a mixed bag, but mostly devolved into a political tool.
I don't think Don should convert. He's fine where he is. Personally I find the idea of a "good" Pope somewhat of an oxymoron, but that's just my opinion.
And I did say "all sides of the church," for the record.
Worth the read. Nice
Amen.
I can't believe I live in a world where my president speaks the truth about the persecution of my fellow Catholics in China and my pope does not.
I'm praying that Trump fully embraces the Catholic faith. Imagine if that happened!
Only if he cleans house after sorting out America’s affairs.
It'd turn me into a Ghibelline.
Love this. English tradition is our tradition.
Love this as a Catholic!
Wow. This is hardcore.
He even accused "global bureaucrats" of trying to undermine this!
That is HUGE, tantamount to pointing and saying "there are unelected men behind the curtain who are driving you away from God by force"
He is fulfilling his purpose. People need to wake up. The Devil stays busy behind the scenes.
based
Will no one rid me of this meddlesome press?
Hold fast to that line, my frens, that was almost in the official seal of the United States, for it shows us the way forward in this time of covid, globalism, and crisis:
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."
Wonderful to see this. Glad the President made this proclamation.
Pray to God He doesn't allow this election to be stolen.
Some years ago I stood at the place in Canterbury Cathedral where Becket was slain - the place that had been splattered by his blood and brains.
After the tremendous outrage that came from his murder, Henry II denied he ordered Becket's murder and maintained the four Knights (and a cleric who accompanied them to the murder) misunderstood him in a moment of exasperation. Of course, he would say that. Who but God knows the truth?
The knights eventually visited the pope in Rome to beg forgiveness, and were ordered to serve 14 years duty in the Holy Land.
As for King Henry II, in 1173-74 he had to put down a rebellion led by his own wife & sons, and beat back an invasion of northern England by the Scots. After returning to England from his other kingdom in western France, he decided to perform penance at Canterbury. He put on pilgrim's garb and walked barefoot several miles, eventually leaving bloody footprints by the time he arrived. Inside the cathedral he ordered monks to whip him. Some of them had witnessed Becket's murder 3 years prior. They beat him bloody with near 300 lashes.
The very next day Henry learned the King of Scotland had been captured, and he took that for a sign he was in good with the Lord. He would also go on to defeat the rebellion and sent his wife to captivity, but reconciled with his two sons.
Yes, the state shouldn't have supremacy over people's beliefs, but no, the church shouldn't have supremacy over the state either.
The church during that time wasn't looking for state freedom, but state supremacy. Limiting the power of the church is as noble as limiting the power of kings - both can lead to tyranny.
Freedom of thought is freedom not just of religion, but from religion.
As Americans, we were first united by our belief that “rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God” and that defending liberty is more important than life itself. If we are to continue to be the land of the free, no government official, no governor, no bureaucrat, no judge, and no legislator must be allowed to decree what is orthodox in matters of religion or to require religious believers to violate their consciences. No right is more fundamental to a peaceful, prosperous, and virtuous society than the right to follow one’s religious convictions. As I declared in Krasiński Square in Warsaw, Poland on July 6, 2017, the people of America and the people of the world still cry out: “We want God.”
You missed the point. He is saying the government needs to stop fucking with people in general, yes religion wise but in all other ways too. Preparing people for what’s coming and reminding us why we have to fight for freedom.
So tell me what was "conscientious" about Papal authority in a foreign country and the church having a mechanism by which to shield murderers.
That doesn't sound like a matter of religion at all. It sounds like politics.
The "government" of Rome, the Vatican...was kinda fucking with British people. Making it so that only the church could punish the clergy. How is this about religious freedom?
Yes, but don't you wish we had a church power that could check the government at this point? Americans spent the last 20 years demonizing the church to where they hold no clout, so now the government can just do whatever it wants. It sure would be easy to organize resistance to some of these bullshit coronavirus edicts if we all met every other sunday.
No I don't really want my church to have the power to hold in-house trials for it's members, to shield them from prosecution on behalf of a political entity in Rome.
God has plenty of power for his church. Aside from staying out of our service etc, I don't think we should be able to usurp laws against murder by "defrocking" the guilty.
It was all political back then. It was barely even about faith. These guys were just fighting for control over Britain.
People forget the power the Pope had back then.
Kings derived their claims of power due to being 'appointed by God'. So if you defied the Pope, he could excommunicate you - removing your claim to the throne, and expressly encouraging revolution and invasion.
These tussles between crown and Rome were never about religion, but power. Becket didn't deserve to be murdered, but at the same time he was defending the principle of Roman supremacy over British laws.
He wasn't an icon of freedom. Just because he was a victim of tyranny doesn't mean he wasn't a proponent of a competing form of tyranny.
The process of limiting the political power of the church is as noble as that of limiting the power of kings. Look at Iran for what can happen otherwise.
Would anyone here really want the current Pope to effectively have power over Trump? The ability to greenlight the US military to oust him, and handpick his own successor?
Because that's what Becket stood for.
Well said. Of course, I would never judge a man like Becket. History is full of examples of bravery that are not black and white. He also did not deserve to be murdered.
But the irony is, if he had his way and the murderer came from his church - he could not be punished with death or anything else. Only "defrocked" and sent away.
Oh shit, you didn't read what I wrote. You don't like in-house trials, got it. The government has been running in-house bullshit trials, why not the church? Now go back and read what I said. The church has been CASTRATED over the last 20 years. Religious freedom is the gateway to all freedom.
I did read what you wrote. Sorry if my answer wasn't good enough for you...
Of course I don't like in-house religious trials. That's exactly what Sharia is. Why are you dismissive about that? Can you explain why you support them if you do?
I don't think anyone should hold in-house "bullshit" trials. Not the church or the state.
I don't think religious "freedom" needs to be protected by allowing a foreign leader (such as the Pope) operating from a foreign country (inside the Vatican) to usurp the legal system of the nation the church resides in.
Your point would be so much better and more idealistically acceptable if you removed the foreign influence. But in this case, you can't.
Of course I'd love for smaller government, but I don't know if literal shariah law is the answer.
nah nah nah nah. We both don't like the corrupt in-house trials. We can go on for days about things we do not like when any group gets too powerful. My point is an about-face: Religion brings a competing set of moral guide lines. Those prescribed by God. To rival/trump the moral guidelines created by law. It creates a competing duality. There should be no moral monopoly. This has happened because the church has lost influence. The demonization of the church in the last 20 years was a total fuckin farce. The gay marriage issue and the abortion issue were presented to the public in such a way as to attack the church for years, then ultimately "win" through fiat in the Supreme Court. And the government didn't just "win," it forced acceptance of (gay & abortion) ideology which was directly COUNTER to the teachings of the church. If you look at the ass-backwards the public discourse on gay marriage and abortion, the Supreme Court's ultimate iron-fisted bench-legislation on those issues, and the resultant heeling of the Church, you will start to understand just how long communists have been grinding down American institutions. So, I'm pro-church because apparently we need more of those nowadays, but not because I think you should go to church or because I want the Pope to make law. I hope I clarified the communism vs. church issue there.
tl;dr: You seem to be worried about control, when the answer is more freedom.
Freedom of religion covers all the good bits of freedom from religion.
Freedom from religion is just a leftist rewording which gives them cover for using state power to abolish the free exercise of religion in public places.
Never use freedom 'from' religion, it is not a thing, let alone a constitutional thing.
PS The church did aim for supremacy at times; Becket's murder was not one of them.
^^^^^^^^^
This was a great podcast episode on what happened with Becket. And I agree with what you said. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09hp2rm
Freedom of thought does not require freedom from religion.
Pretty cool history and interesting to note that most haven’t heard about it in the USA. I grew up Catholic & never heard of him. Only heard about him when I visited Canterbury, England. Thomas Becket has the top of his head sliced off. Cool town w/ lots of history and only about 40k residents.
When I was young I think most Americans were familiar with Thomas Becket (or Thomas á Becket, as he was often called) due to their high school reading of Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales, if nothing else.
Do high schools today still cover Chaucer?
We didn’t read that, or at least I didn’t, though it’s famous enough that I’ve heard the name. I literally learned about it at the Canterbury Tales attraction in Canterbury England, the Cathedral there, and a bit of the Googles. The stories were a bit saucier than I would have expected for 1400. Good stuff really.
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/grim-becket.asp
More than winning - Growing stronger.
This proclamation is fantastic. Thomas didn't just rise through the ranks - he was a friend of Henry II's, who made Thomas chancellor and later appointed him Archbishop of Canterbury.
Instead of Thomas helping Henry II put the king's interests first, Thomas defended the rights of the church against the king. He also became an ascetic.
Spicy!
He invites schools to celebrate. TOP KEK
BASED
Thank you for pointing this out
Wonderful
you had me at "a lion of religious liberty"
I stand with God and my President!
"As Americans, we were first united by our belief that “rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God” and that defending liberty is more important than life itself."
I could not have said it better myself.
Long Live our President Donald J. Trump.
"We pray for religious believers everywhere who suffer persecution for their faith. We especially pray for their brave and inspiring shepherds — like Cardinal Joseph Zen of Hong Kong and Pastor Wang Yi of Chengdu — who are tireless witnesses to hope."
Screw you, CCP.
Just when I think President Trump couldn't possibly impress me anymore. Oh me of little faith.
This. Is awesome. Glory to God, glory to President Trump, glory to America.
Go Trump, drop truth like bombs, let the people know you are with them and for them.
I will forever read "rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God" in Alex Jones' voice.
Today, religious people are the ones who most need their rights protected!
This is outstanding
God bless president Trump! God bless the Usa!
The name Thomas Becket will be known in my house.
May God have mercy on our Nation and Save us.
Very proud our president remembers such people and their impact on religious freedom.