You are aware that Caesar's policies are closer to AOC's than Trump's, aren't you? He pushed for free bread and created Rome's dependent class, who rioted, committed violence and killed Senators when their entitlements were threatened.
Yes, indeed, Julius was the antithesis of President Trump.
But the Senate forced Julius' hand by wanting to war against him, litigate him and his family, and take everything from him that meant anything. That was their mistake.
Putting Julius in the position where crossing the Rubicon was the only viable way forward, was the Roman Senate's biggest mistake.
That same situation is where we are right now. Trump's enemies have placed him where the only way forward, is to cross the Rubicon.
It's the situation and the populist statesmanship that's similar, not the economics/politics.
I would disagree that Trump and Julius are antithetical. The Roman times were very different than today in certain ways. The Senate had long been hoarding power and wealth to establish their place as the elite class. This is part of how they did not take care of their military Veterans. Romans were offered as part of their pay for military service citizenship status and/or a parcel of land. Land-owners were basically "independently wealthy" and the represented class in Roman society. However, the Senate constantly reneged on their obligations to the veterans and kept the land for themselves. This was one of Julius Caesars primary grievances, and why his troops were so loyal. He kept his promises to them in terms of land. Also, there is a big difference between socialism versus giving sorely needed $2000 ...err, I mean bread, to those that the elites have truthfully oppressed.
Julius was antithetical to Trump on several points; both are quite similar on several others.
While his willingness to keep the promises made to the military gave him very popular support among them, Julius was also willing to extend that to ANYONE with a grievance toward the Senate, and really wasn't willing to negotiate much of anything. He knew allegiance and loyalty could be bought with lesser men.
Trump keeps his promises, and goes out of his way to negotiate where he wants things done. He seems to leave brute force out unless it is the very, very last option. Julius wasn't opposed to cracking a few skulls to get the point across.
The Roman military was extremely harsh in its discipline, especially by today's standards. Julius was unrelenting on that.
Again, we are talking of cultures separated by several thousand miles and over 2000 years in space and time.
I can concede your point here: Julius and Trump both kept their promises, when the self-styled elites reneged. Both men were/are powerfully popular because of this very fact.
Both men expected their people to perform, or they were gone. Loyalty was rewarded.
Both men face very powerful opposition in their respective Capitols.
An in both cases, the self-professed "elite" made/are making the same mistake: that their "elitism" will enable them to survive the civil turmoil they themselves push to create.
From the standpoint of history, the Roman practice of "bread and circuses" started up when the Senate elite wanted to pacify and distract the unrest they were creating by paying off the people.
I must agree - the Roman "bread and circuses" was not socialism as Marx formed it to be. What we have here in America today is a distorted amalgamation of socialism (as Marx intended it to be) and the Roman "bread and circuses" used to pacify and distraction the people from the rampant corruption seen in the later Roman Empire.
True, but there are still lessons to learn from history. I think the key is knowing what is similar and when it applies, and when not. A literal application of today's politics is a bit of a stretch; however, keep in mind that there is 'nothing knew under the sun'. These philosophies take on knew shapes and forms, but most are not as original as they claim. Ludism for instance is constantly re-surfacing in all sorts of different movements; it was itself a re-surfacing of a previous ideas.
History's lessons stem from knowing the danger of failed ideas (like Communism) and abused extremes (like Dictatorship or Elitist Oligarchy).
One problem is that Caesar had experience ordering people to their death. Trump doesn't, at least not on this scale. So he might balk. Hopefully that won't happen.
If we're going to compare Trump to anyone for what he's about to do, it should be Cicero from when he was consul. He executed Roman citizens quickly and w/o trial for trying to overthrow the republic.
Cicero set a trap for traitors to commit treason and then followed through with the Senate's vote to execute five members of the Senate who were involved in the Cataline Conspiracy. Cataline himself fled Rome and was later killed in battle leading a few thousand.
He didn't create that underclass. It was a major cause of the century's civil war before he seized power.
The better analogy, is Tiberius Gracchus.
He tried to stop the flagrant corruption that was actively dispossessing the yeoman-farmer class and creating that underclass.
He was murdered upon the Senate floor for rallying the plebes against the patriarchs.
Yeah but you're talking about a different period in time... He gave them bread, not cell phones.... While I understand what you're saying and agree to an extent you have to understand the times
Agreed, he gave people bread, we give people food stamps, welfare and social security. let's not get carried away. Caesar was nothing like that nitwit AOC.
He knew what it took to make Rome powerful... And at that time it was empowering the people! .. look at all the success he had doing it! As soon as he was killed the standard of living went down 60% for a whole generation!! ... Caesar knew how to control the power of his time! .. today that power, that he basically have his people, is called freedom
Interesting... They printed 35% of all USD during 2020, more after this stim bill.
57k is roughly 1/3, maybe they're protecting their salaries from the inevitable inflation.
Honestly politicians should only be able to make the median income of working age adults in their district. That could have a bad incentive to just have make work programs though.
One of the things I'm glad about is that Americans reject what the Left is preaching. They voted for Republicans(at least they call themselves that) and Donald Trump. I just wish our country wasn't so fucked up that socialists and globalists have so much power and are so close to installing an illegitimate puppet into our highest office.
They definitely knew the public loved Caesar and killed him because of that. Also, Caesar wanted to have himself declared dictator and made a mockery of democratic practices while in politics. I'm ok with the Rubicon analogy people have been making (though I'd liken it more to the Catilinarian Conspiracy), this definitely isn't the comparison to make.
They hated Caesar for being a reformer, it's true, but a reformer who was destroying the Republic, rigged votes with massive bribery, and had his co-consul doused with shit. Not a man conservatives should look up to in general, his charisma, intellect, and military prowess notwithstanding, he was a vain man.
There is a reason our founding fathers adopted pseudonyms such as Cato and Brutus, but not any of the Caesars. Sic semper tyrannis.
Caesar was a socialist who used manufactured consent and useful idiots who love free gimmees to tear down a democratic system that stood between him and absolute power. Brutus was literally draining their swamp, and the real tale to take away is that half a dozen conspirators of greater renown were too afraid to do a damn thing with the daggers they had smuggled in until one hero plunged his dagger first.
The bread was well-deserved relief to the people who were driven out of business and work by slave-owners who had an unfair advantage, much like big businesses today hiring illegals and enjoying bailouts.
The public loved him because he gave them free grain and redistributed land away from people who knew how to farm and gave it to you know, whomever. (We need socialism to save us from the results of socialism!!)
He used useful idiots to over throw a functioning democracy, rigged elections and bribed votes to get his way -- all towards unaccountable absolute power.
This is more reminiscent of the DNC than Trump. SOME Romans loved Caesar, but there were plenty who did not. Commoners that did not. When Caesar marched his Triumph through Rome depicting his victory in the civil war with paintings depicting the deaths of Romans rather than foreigners even those who 'loved' him were appalled.
The Senate was no better than our own House and Senate, beholden only to donors and special interest groups. Caesar's policies were to confront the results of their corporate welfare schemes.
You will note that Brutus looks away and yet still wields the deadly knife. He is a traitor and cannot face the man he is about to betray. Let's hope we are not going to be dealt a traitorous blow and have an "Et tu, Pence?" moment in our republic. Dante put Judas Iscariot, Brutus, and Cassius in the deepest, foulest circle of Hell in his "Inferno," forever being chewed in the mouth of a gigantic Satan----because the betrayal of a benefactor was seen as the highest evil, just as Satan turned on God without just cause, despite God's goodness to him. Heaven forbid Pence join their ranks!
Pence scares me ever since I came across a random guy on youtube going on about Pence raping little boys (this is PRE-Epstein)..
the youtube got cancer and died, and there's no telling how delusional the guy was.
I've kept it as a nugget in the back of my mind. I KNOW I've seen Pence wearing a freemason apron at some point but I've never been able to find the picture..
"Pence has so far showed absolute deference to the president—and as a result he has become one of the most influential figures in the White House, with a broad portfolio of responsibilities and an unprecedented level of autonomy. But for all his aw-shucks modesty, Pence is a man who believes heaven and Earth have conspired to place him a heartbeat—or an impeachment vote—away from the presidency. At some crucial juncture in the not-too-distant future, that could make him a threat to Trump."
They knew he was loved by the public dude!! It's why they killed him!! Him giving their money to the public is why they killed him! ... And NOT all that were in on it were killed... Only, I believe 2 or 3 that actually orchestrated it were killed from the ensuing power vacuum that covered them all and lead to further war..... Every single senator that was in on it stabbed him at least once so they all had their hands dirty
I've told democrats, I don't even care about convincing you. YOu're my enemy, and if you ever pass something like reparations, I'd hunt every democrat for sport, and then I'd move on to people I know voted for democrats.
He was popular because Roman Citizens were low IQ cucks that saw his land reforms (re-distribution) and increased grain dole (free gimmees) as something other than theft.
And worst of all, Caesar did not do these things out of principle, but because he knew it would make him popular and he was intent on using that popularity as a tool to consolidate the absolute power he sought. Same tactic his generosity with his troops was for -- No general who genuinely loves his troops sends them to a war with nothing to gain other than your personal power.
He was an anti democratic tyrant hellbent on absolute power who saw the useful idiots for what they were millennia before Lenin or Stalin. His troops were in on the take and hated the senate for blocking the man who enriched them, and the public couldn't see two feet beyond free shit.
They didn’t think the public wanted it.
They perfectly knew Caesar was well seen.
That’s exactly why they killed him.
KEK
This, Plus I don't see mitch running again he won't have to with all the china money giving to his family by his father inlaw with ties to the ccp!
You are aware that Caesar's policies are closer to AOC's than Trump's, aren't you? He pushed for free bread and created Rome's dependent class, who rioted, committed violence and killed Senators when their entitlements were threatened.
Yes, indeed, Julius was the antithesis of President Trump.
But the Senate forced Julius' hand by wanting to war against him, litigate him and his family, and take everything from him that meant anything. That was their mistake.
Putting Julius in the position where crossing the Rubicon was the only viable way forward, was the Roman Senate's biggest mistake.
That same situation is where we are right now. Trump's enemies have placed him where the only way forward, is to cross the Rubicon.
It's the situation and the populist statesmanship that's similar, not the economics/politics.
I would disagree that Trump and Julius are antithetical. The Roman times were very different than today in certain ways. The Senate had long been hoarding power and wealth to establish their place as the elite class. This is part of how they did not take care of their military Veterans. Romans were offered as part of their pay for military service citizenship status and/or a parcel of land. Land-owners were basically "independently wealthy" and the represented class in Roman society. However, the Senate constantly reneged on their obligations to the veterans and kept the land for themselves. This was one of Julius Caesars primary grievances, and why his troops were so loyal. He kept his promises to them in terms of land. Also, there is a big difference between socialism versus giving sorely needed $2000 ...err, I mean bread, to those that the elites have truthfully oppressed.
Julius was antithetical to Trump on several points; both are quite similar on several others.
While his willingness to keep the promises made to the military gave him very popular support among them, Julius was also willing to extend that to ANYONE with a grievance toward the Senate, and really wasn't willing to negotiate much of anything. He knew allegiance and loyalty could be bought with lesser men.
Trump keeps his promises, and goes out of his way to negotiate where he wants things done. He seems to leave brute force out unless it is the very, very last option. Julius wasn't opposed to cracking a few skulls to get the point across.
The Roman military was extremely harsh in its discipline, especially by today's standards. Julius was unrelenting on that.
Again, we are talking of cultures separated by several thousand miles and over 2000 years in space and time.
I can concede your point here: Julius and Trump both kept their promises, when the self-styled elites reneged. Both men were/are powerfully popular because of this very fact.
Both men expected their people to perform, or they were gone. Loyalty was rewarded.
Both men face very powerful opposition in their respective Capitols.
An in both cases, the self-professed "elite" made/are making the same mistake: that their "elitism" will enable them to survive the civil turmoil they themselves push to create.
From the standpoint of history, the Roman practice of "bread and circuses" started up when the Senate elite wanted to pacify and distract the unrest they were creating by paying off the people.
I must agree - the Roman "bread and circuses" was not socialism as Marx formed it to be. What we have here in America today is a distorted amalgamation of socialism (as Marx intended it to be) and the Roman "bread and circuses" used to pacify and distraction the people from the rampant corruption seen in the later Roman Empire.
True, but there are still lessons to learn from history. I think the key is knowing what is similar and when it applies, and when not. A literal application of today's politics is a bit of a stretch; however, keep in mind that there is 'nothing knew under the sun'. These philosophies take on knew shapes and forms, but most are not as original as they claim. Ludism for instance is constantly re-surfacing in all sorts of different movements; it was itself a re-surfacing of a previous ideas.
History's lessons stem from knowing the danger of failed ideas (like Communism) and abused extremes (like Dictatorship or Elitist Oligarchy).
One problem is that Caesar had experience ordering people to their death. Trump doesn't, at least not on this scale. So he might balk. Hopefully that won't happen.
Trump executed isis and iranian terrorists. Reinstituted death by firing squad of all things.
Traitors, kiddie diddlers, murderers, all in one. If he doesn't execute them, there's surely a good reason. Trust Trump.
If we're going to compare Trump to anyone for what he's about to do, it should be Cicero from when he was consul. He executed Roman citizens quickly and w/o trial for trying to overthrow the republic.
You show a very poor understanding of history and current events.
When people are trader's, you treat them like trader's. That's what we need right now. Not an emperor appeasing the helpless masses.
*traitors.
I am scared of what you'd do to the simple merchants lol
What about Trader Joe’s?
Cicero set a trap for traitors to commit treason and then followed through with the Senate's vote to execute five members of the Senate who were involved in the Cataline Conspiracy. Cataline himself fled Rome and was later killed in battle leading a few thousand.
Yeah. And if the assassins had followed his advice, there would have been no civil war.
He didn't create that underclass. It was a major cause of the century's civil war before he seized power.
The better analogy, is Tiberius Gracchus. He tried to stop the flagrant corruption that was actively dispossessing the yeoman-farmer class and creating that underclass. He was murdered upon the Senate floor for rallying the plebes against the patriarchs.
Because he left his Glock at home that day. /s
His Glock of the day. The Gladius... Glockius?
The Glad.
If he hadn't been so cranky that day, he might have survived.
All stuff we have had in America from our founding
Political violence? Yes, true.
Most people don't look into his policies. He was a great tactician and an even greater communist.
Yeah but you're talking about a different period in time... He gave them bread, not cell phones.... While I understand what you're saying and agree to an extent you have to understand the times
Agreed, he gave people bread, we give people food stamps, welfare and social security. let's not get carried away. Caesar was nothing like that nitwit AOC.
He knew what it took to make Rome powerful... And at that time it was empowering the people! .. look at all the success he had doing it! As soon as he was killed the standard of living went down 60% for a whole generation!! ... Caesar knew how to control the power of his time! .. today that power, that he basically have his people, is called freedom
Sounds like John Wilkes Booth - he was astounded that the public REALLY didn't like his actions.
When I emailed my representative I started with the phrase "Et tu brute"
Truly all I have been hearing in my head this month
Et tu Pence?
Justifiable fear here... Pence is the fulcrum upon which war and peace seem to be balanced... he must move, making one or the other more likely...
Wromg. They killed Ceasar because a small handful of percieved insults to the Senate.
That's some spin if I ever heard it
Agreed
Does your username reflect your admiration his policies?
They killed him because he made himself dictator for life.
Congress voted for a $25,000,000 pay raise. Divided out that is a nearly $57,000 pay raise.
Put their heads on a spike
Interesting... They printed 35% of all USD during 2020, more after this stim bill.
57k is roughly 1/3, maybe they're protecting their salaries from the inevitable inflation.
Honestly politicians should only be able to make the median income of working age adults in their district. That could have a bad incentive to just have make work programs though.
They knew the public wouldn't like it. He was a populare for God's sake
One of the things I'm glad about is that Americans reject what the Left is preaching. They voted for Republicans(at least they call themselves that) and Donald Trump. I just wish our country wasn't so fucked up that socialists and globalists have so much power and are so close to installing an illegitimate puppet into our highest office.
Caesar was loved. The Senate was not. The senators rectified the perceived injustice and humiliation. With predictable results.
Hitler was loved too, just saying.
They definitely knew the public loved Caesar and killed him because of that. Also, Caesar wanted to have himself declared dictator and made a mockery of democratic practices while in politics. I'm ok with the Rubicon analogy people have been making (though I'd liken it more to the Catilinarian Conspiracy), this definitely isn't the comparison to make.
They hated Caesar for being a reformer, it's true, but a reformer who was destroying the Republic, rigged votes with massive bribery, and had his co-consul doused with shit. Not a man conservatives should look up to in general, his charisma, intellect, and military prowess notwithstanding, he was a vain man.
There is a reason our founding fathers adopted pseudonyms such as Cato and Brutus, but not any of the Caesars. Sic semper tyrannis.
Caesar was based and redpilled. Seethe harder, cuck
Caesar was a socialist who used manufactured consent and useful idiots who love free gimmees to tear down a democratic system that stood between him and absolute power. Brutus was literally draining their swamp, and the real tale to take away is that half a dozen conspirators of greater renown were too afraid to do a damn thing with the daggers they had smuggled in until one hero plunged his dagger first.
Fuck Caesar.
The bread was well-deserved relief to the people who were driven out of business and work by slave-owners who had an unfair advantage, much like big businesses today hiring illegals and enjoying bailouts.
Yup, the solution to socialism is more socialism.
With that mindset you'll cheer when they 'fix' all our problems with UBI and "free" healthcare
With that mindset, we ought to be taking the GOP's shit sitting down and act like prudent "principled" conservatives. Fuck that - they shot first.
Might as well shoot Trump with that mindset.
You're pointing fingers without having a clue who is supporting what.
Don't conflate Our President with that party.
The public loved him because he gave them free grain and redistributed land away from people who knew how to farm and gave it to you know, whomever. (We need socialism to save us from the results of socialism!!)
He used useful idiots to over throw a functioning democracy, rigged elections and bribed votes to get his way -- all towards unaccountable absolute power.
This is more reminiscent of the DNC than Trump. SOME Romans loved Caesar, but there were plenty who did not. Commoners that did not. When Caesar marched his Triumph through Rome depicting his victory in the civil war with paintings depicting the deaths of Romans rather than foreigners even those who 'loved' him were appalled.
The Senate was no better than our own House and Senate, beholden only to donors and special interest groups. Caesar's policies were to confront the results of their corporate welfare schemes.
Did the actual public hunt down the corrupt government? I thought it just took over.
Anthony triggered a riot to kill them. The conspirators managed to escape and assumed minor political positions in Greece.
Octavian and Anthony launched a civil war and they committed suicide or were execute after the battle of Philippi.
You will note that Brutus looks away and yet still wields the deadly knife. He is a traitor and cannot face the man he is about to betray. Let's hope we are not going to be dealt a traitorous blow and have an "Et tu, Pence?" moment in our republic. Dante put Judas Iscariot, Brutus, and Cassius in the deepest, foulest circle of Hell in his "Inferno," forever being chewed in the mouth of a gigantic Satan----because the betrayal of a benefactor was seen as the highest evil, just as Satan turned on God without just cause, despite God's goodness to him. Heaven forbid Pence join their ranks!
Pence scares me ever since I came across a random guy on youtube going on about Pence raping little boys (this is PRE-Epstein)..
the youtube got cancer and died, and there's no telling how delusional the guy was.
I've kept it as a nugget in the back of my mind. I KNOW I've seen Pence wearing a freemason apron at some point but I've never been able to find the picture..
"Pence has so far showed absolute deference to the president—and as a result he has become one of the most influential figures in the White House, with a broad portfolio of responsibilities and an unprecedented level of autonomy. But for all his aw-shucks modesty, Pence is a man who believes heaven and Earth have conspired to place him a heartbeat—or an impeachment vote—away from the presidency. At some crucial juncture in the not-too-distant future, that could make him a threat to Trump."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/01/gods-plan-for-mike-pence/546569/
They knew he was loved by the public dude!! It's why they killed him!! Him giving their money to the public is why they killed him! ... And NOT all that were in on it were killed... Only, I believe 2 or 3 that actually orchestrated it were killed from the ensuing power vacuum that covered them all and lead to further war..... Every single senator that was in on it stabbed him at least once so they all had their hands dirty
"Sic semper tyrannis"
Attributed to Brutus over the dying Caesar.
Also said by Wilkes-Booth to Lincoln.
Also my state's motto...
Now there's a part of the story they never told me about
Ha I just posted excerpts from the Marc Antony speech my social.
I've told democrats, I don't even care about convincing you. YOu're my enemy, and if you ever pass something like reparations, I'd hunt every democrat for sport, and then I'd move on to people I know voted for democrats.
The Optimates didnt give a flying fuck about what the people wanted, they actually viewed them as sub human animals. No different than today
Wait so are we fighting for the Republic or Caesar?
We the People, if we can keep it.
Et Tu Pat Cippalone
Caesar was a socialist
He was popular because Roman Citizens were low IQ cucks that saw his land reforms (re-distribution) and increased grain dole (free gimmees) as something other than theft.
And worst of all, Caesar did not do these things out of principle, but because he knew it would make him popular and he was intent on using that popularity as a tool to consolidate the absolute power he sought. Same tactic his generosity with his troops was for -- No general who genuinely loves his troops sends them to a war with nothing to gain other than your personal power.
He was an anti democratic tyrant hellbent on absolute power who saw the useful idiots for what they were millennia before Lenin or Stalin. His troops were in on the take and hated the senate for blocking the man who enriched them, and the public couldn't see two feet beyond free shit.
What was Cicero's description of Caesar? Ruthless and Resilient?
His last words were "Cesar? Seize this, honkies"
sportsball reruns you mean, since Covid cancelled all new sports games.
Many doom
We need a doomer deport option...