This is correct. Ppl don’t understand fully how it works. Pence doesn’t have authority to choose one set of electors over another... the House & Senate have that power on the 6th. Until that day, the state legislatures have the power to decertify or change their certifications.
The only power the House and Senate has is to challenge a slate of electors put forward by Pence based on if they are lawful under section 6 of the Electoral Count Act. They do not certify anything.
Pence in fact does have full authority to choose one set of electors over another, or neither, if one or both do not follow section 5 of the Electoral Vote Act. The House and Senate can only choose if they are both put forward.
Constitutionally Pence has the power to discern which envelopes he can open on the House floor, and which he does not. The authority of counting is vague enough for it to be arguably his power alone.
Pence has no such power. Nowhere in the 12th amendment states that he can disregard any state's electors.
The wording of the law is to count, and count he must.
If the votes are there, he should count them.
Note that the constitution says "shall" in describing the actions of the VP in the 12th amendment. This wording indicates that the function is ministerial. He must count.
I'm all for DJT winning this election, but we should not buy in to misinformation, or we'll just be disappointed.
I'm all for DJT winning this election, but we should not buy in to misinformation, or we'll just be disappointed.
Agreed. The Pence thing is misguided. Frankly even the house & senate contesting electors, although possible & constitutional, will not end in success for us. Nancy Pelosi’s House will not vote to agree w R slate of electors.
Our best hope is to get state legislators to decertify by showing them the fucked up fraud.
I’m not a doomer. I love Trump so much & desperately want him to win. This is the best strategy for him.
Precedence disagrees. Nixon did just this in 1960. When faced with two groups of electors, he chose the set of electors that were likely not certified, over the ones that were. Jefferson opted to count his own electors from Georgia that was marred with discrepancies despite objections from Congress. There are other instances of it as well. There's quite extensive writings over this over the years of the plenary power that the President of the Senate holds.
The Electoral Count Act doesn't do much to curb this power either, hence in 3 USC section 15 gives very specific instructions if there are more than one set of electors for a State.
If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed
This specific part requires any purported votes from a State to be determined if they follow section 5 to be counted.
Section 5 being what qualifies legitimate electoral votes and requires:
All controversies, and contests, both judicial or other must be resolved six days prior to the electors meeting.
State law set at least six days prior must be followed.
There is legal opinions out there that says that if there are two or more sets of electoral votes, they all should be thrown as two or more sets of votes means there are unresolved controversies and contests.
https://thedonald.win/p/11RO7YUqN7/hey-you-fucking-idiots-read-penc/c/
This is correct. Ppl don’t understand fully how it works. Pence doesn’t have authority to choose one set of electors over another... the House & Senate have that power on the 6th. Until that day, the state legislatures have the power to decertify or change their certifications.
The only power the House and Senate has is to challenge a slate of electors put forward by Pence based on if they are lawful under section 6 of the Electoral Count Act. They do not certify anything.
Pence in fact does have full authority to choose one set of electors over another, or neither, if one or both do not follow section 5 of the Electoral Vote Act. The House and Senate can only choose if they are both put forward.
Constitutionally Pence has the power to discern which envelopes he can open on the House floor, and which he does not. The authority of counting is vague enough for it to be arguably his power alone.
Pence has no such power. Nowhere in the 12th amendment states that he can disregard any state's electors.
The wording of the law is to count, and count he must. If the votes are there, he should count them.
Note that the constitution says "shall" in describing the actions of the VP in the 12th amendment. This wording indicates that the function is ministerial. He must count.
I'm all for DJT winning this election, but we should not buy in to misinformation, or we'll just be disappointed.
Agreed. The Pence thing is misguided. Frankly even the house & senate contesting electors, although possible & constitutional, will not end in success for us. Nancy Pelosi’s House will not vote to agree w R slate of electors.
Our best hope is to get state legislators to decertify by showing them the fucked up fraud.
I’m not a doomer. I love Trump so much & desperately want him to win. This is the best strategy for him.
Precedence disagrees. Nixon did just this in 1960. When faced with two groups of electors, he chose the set of electors that were likely not certified, over the ones that were. Jefferson opted to count his own electors from Georgia that was marred with discrepancies despite objections from Congress. There are other instances of it as well. There's quite extensive writings over this over the years of the plenary power that the President of the Senate holds.
The Electoral Count Act doesn't do much to curb this power either, hence in 3 USC section 15 gives very specific instructions if there are more than one set of electors for a State.
This specific part requires any purported votes from a State to be determined if they follow section 5 to be counted.
Section 5 being what qualifies legitimate electoral votes and requires:
All controversies, and contests, both judicial or other must be resolved six days prior to the electors meeting.
State law set at least six days prior must be followed.
There is legal opinions out there that says that if there are two or more sets of electoral votes, they all should be thrown as two or more sets of votes means there are unresolved controversies and contests.
high five
The reason DOJ gives: You don't sue the VP to overturn a law passed by the legislature that restricts the VP's power.
Pence just doesn't want the blame to fall on him. But somebody has to step up.
If pence were to step down does trump name his replacement?
Yes, Trump names a replacement with confirmation by the House and Senate.
It's critical to read the actual case filings and not just media about it.