Please help me understand or confirm.
I have recently heard that the house may infact vote according to delegations come Jan 6th.
This is significant because while there will be numerous objections it wouldn't matter as the house is democratic controlled.
However, according to the 12th amendment: "But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. "
Also from this history.gov article when Jefferson and Aaron Burr, the Republican candidates for President and Vice President, tied at 73 electoral ballots each. The House, under the Constitution, then chose between Jefferson and Burr for President. The Constitution mandates that House Members vote as a state delegation and that the winner must obtain a simple majority of the states.
https://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/Electoral-College/
If the house votes according to delegation state by state they will have a republican majority as opposed to overall majority where Democrats lead.
Am I understanding this possiblity correctly?
Please help me understand or confirm.
I have recently heard that the house may infact vote according to delegations come Jan 6th.
This is significant because while there will be numerous objections it wouldn't matter as the house is democratic controlled.
However, according to the 12th amendment: "But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. "
Also from this history.gov article when Jefferson and Aaron Burr, the Republican candidates for President and Vice President, tied at 73 electoral ballots each. The House, under the Constitution, then chose between Jefferson and Burr for President. The Constitution mandates that House Members vote as a state delegation and that the winner must obtain a simple majority of the states.
https://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/Electoral-College/
If the house votes according to delegation state by state they will have a republican majority as opposed to overall majority where Democrats lead.
Am I understanding this possiblity correctly?
I don’t know what actually happens with this. Constitution says pence has discretion over manner of counting votes, disputing votes etc. Dispute resolution procedure in 12th amendment would favor Trump. It specifies that - where president of senate doesn’t count a winner by electoral votes- the vote goes to the house for one vote per state delegation. There is no role for the senate in the dispute resolution.
The electoral count act of 1887 created the dispute procedure where one member of house and one member of senate have to object and that opens up the floor for debate. The house and senate then debate disputed state electors and then house and senate both vote on each set of disputed electors.
Very interesting.
If objections ensue which I'm sure they will. House and senate will then convene for 2 hours. Then they will vote on objections which many have said will not sustain under a democratically controlled house.
Unless the votes for or against objections are counted by delegations which will give republican lead delegations (by state) the advantage.
I may have dug myself into complete confusion. Interested how this plays out.
“There are four key features of this Twelfth Amendment procedure that should be noted when comparing it with the Electoral Count Act’s procedures: (1) the President is to be chosen solely by the House of Representatives, with no role for the Senate; (2) votes are taken by State (with one vote per State), rather than by individual House members;
(3) the President is deemed the candidate that receives the majority of States’ votes, rather than a majority of individual House members’ votes; and (4) there are no other restrictions on this majority rule provision; in particular, no “tie breaker” or priority rules based on the manner or State authority that originally appointed the electors on December 14, 2020 as is the case under the Electoral Count Act (which gives priority to electors’ certified by the State’s executive).”
ABOVE IS THE DESCRIPTION OF THE 12TH AMENDMENT PROCEDURE
BELOW ARE THE CONFLICTING PROVISIONS OF THE ELECTORAL COUNT ACT OF 1887.
GOHMERT V PENCE WAS FILED TO ASK THE COURT TO DECLARE ELECTORAL ACT UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND ORDER PENCE TO COUNT VOTES ACCORDING TO THE 12th AMENDMENT ONLY. THAT SUIT WAS DISMISSED, SO WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL BE DONE. THE ELECTORAL ACT IS CERTAINLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BUT WE ARE IN NEW TERRITORY
“Section 15 (of the electoral count act of 1887)diverges from the Twelfth Amendment by adopting procedures for the President of the Senate to “call for objections,” and if there are objections made in writing by one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives, then this shall trigger a dispute-resolution procedure found nowhere in the Twelfth Amendment. the Electoral Count Act submits disputes over the “count” of electoral votes to both the House of Representatives and to the Senate. The Twelfth Amendment envisages no such role for both Houses of Congress. The President of the Senate, and the President of the Senate alone, shall “count” the electoral votes.
the Electoral Count Act gives both the House of Representatives and the Senate the power to vote, or “decide,” which of two or more competing slates of electors shall be counted, and it requires the concurrence of both to “count” the electoral votes for one of the competing slates of electors.
Under the Twelfth Amendment, the President of the Senate has the sole authority to count votes in the first instance, and then the House may do so only in the event that no candidate receives a majority counted by the President of the Senate. There is no role for the Senate to participate in choosing the President.
the Electoral Count Act eliminates entirely the unique mechanism by which the House of Representatives under the Twelve Amendment is to choose the President, namely, where “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation for each state having one vote.” U.S. CONST. amend. XII. The Electoral Count Act is silent on how the House of Representatives is to “decide” which electoral votes were cast by lawful electors.
the Electoral Count Act adopts a priority rule, or “tie breaker,” “if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of counting of such votes,” in which case “the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State ... shall be counted.” This provision not only conflicts with the President of the Senate’s exclusive authority and sole discretion under the Twelfth Amendment to decide which electoral votes to count, but also with the State Legislature’s exclusive and plenary authority under the Electors Clause to appoint the Presidential Electors for their State”
Thank you for so articulately clarifying this!
Yes the contingent vote is via state delegation, which GOP has the advantage. I had also heard that they must vote party lines as well.
No, majority of votes win
I should have clarified. This is in regards to vote for or against objections.
Still the same?
Thanks for the input.
Yes, unfortunately, this is the bottleneck, I highly doubt the senate and especially the house will vote to decertify. Pence needs to pull through for us.