You left out a step - The Vice-President also determines whether a state's slate of Electoral College voters are legally and/or ethically acceptable.
He does this when he calls out the state's envelope but before he opens it. He can reject any and all slates from a particular state, if he believes the integrity of the vote has been breached.
It doesn't go directly from "Pence determined dispute" to "House contingent election". There are hours of debates and a Senate and House vote to allow a contingent vote.
The contingent vote is the state by state (1 vote per state) scenario. That is triggered when no candidate has over the majority of the electoral votes (270 to start). So it isn't when it is objected by one house/senator and it goes to 2 hr debate. The contingent election would be if Pence throws out the slates from those states and then no candidate has over the majority of electors remaining.
I get here your coming from, but 95% of us are useful idiots who need spoonfed the most basic facts. Please capitalize important words like trump does too.
Pence opens the elector ballots, the ballots for each state is read individually, both houses are in the same chamber for this.
If a Senator and a Congressman object to the validity of a certain states ballots, then both sides adjourn to debate for 2 hours.
IF the senate and Congress agree that the ballots are fake, those ballots are disregarded. If the senate OR congress finds the ballots to be legit, those votes are counted.
IF enough ballots are tossed out and neither party has 270 elector votes, then congress determines president giving each state one vote, same with senate who determines vice president.
BUT the democrats will ALWAYS say the votes are legit, so why do people keep telling us these lies?
DJT better have a plan to nullify this corrupted outcome, even if it's extralegal, extrajudicial and extraconstitutional, even if that means he has the force the military to take sides.
Good, because ninety-plus million Americans are locked and loaded. The ones in DC had the time energy and means for that yes, but you can bet the Dems cannot survive civil war without foreign intervention.
“Objections to individual state returns must be made in writing by at least one Member each of the Senate and House of Representatives. If an objection meets these requirements, the joint session recesses and the two houses separate and debate the question in their respective chambers for a maximum of two hours,” the CRS said. “The two houses then vote separately to accept or reject the objection. They then reassemble in joint session, and announce the results of their respective votes. An objection to a state’s electoral vote must be approved by both houses in order for any contested votes to be excluded.”
This option of senate & house members contesting isn't great for us bc there's no way in high hell that Pelosi's house is going to agree to the fraud that they committed.
There has to be another way. (state legislators would be ideal)
Now, considering the Electoral Count Act, where does Cruz's 10-day commission fit in... since last time that was done was actually BEFORE the Electoral Count Act of 1887??
...and there is absolutely no way in hell that is going to happen. We don’t even have a third of the house nor a fourth of the senate behind us. It’s done without some nuclear bomb of info.
Pence will count the Trump electors only in the disputed states. Democrats forced to object and debate the election. Democrats manuevered into voting against counting those states ballots. This happens with enough states to make it impossible for either candidate to reach 270. Contingent election.
It is right here: Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A;
Pence hands the paperwork to the tellers. Pence is the key.
What if they simply do not allow the Tellers to receive the paperwork they don't want...? who determines how they get there? Sargeant at Arms? Lots of opportunity for manipulation.
Pence gives to the tellers the alternate slates of electors sent by the republican parties of the disputed states. Pence has "all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates", he picks what to pass on.
Ok, so when you have a disputed state ballot, say Michigan:
Senate votes (each person one vote) to say if votes are legit, same with the house.
If Both the Senate and the House vote NO, do not accept those electoral ballots, then the 16 votes from michigan would be tossed out and not used in calculating who becomes president.
If only ONE side says the Ballots are not legit (like the senate) and the other chamber says they are legit (like the house), then those ballots are deemed good and are used in calculating the presidency.
So if enough disputed ballots are tossed out (because the house and senate agree those votes are not valid) and NO one has 270 electoral counts, THAT is when you poll the states, where each state gets one vote to determine who the president is.
Either you get the House and Senate deciding (and it must be both in agreement). Or it's the House that decides with one delegate per state. (GOP edge.)
We don't know what constitutional lawyers Trump and Pence are consulting, so we don't know what they are even considering.
Trump has trouble choosing competent and loyal lawyers. He chose Sessions, Rosenstein, Barr, Pat Cippolone and another pro-Biden inner circle lawyer. He picked those losers and he didn't pick Sidney Powell. (Well he picked her but then let Cippolone and Meadows overrule his decision.)
He needs to think and act like a General or he's toast.
THIS. This may be DJT's 'Trump' card fwiw. "Hey Roberts, remember those riots you were talking about? I think that's one of them outside your window. But it's not the rioters you were anticipating? Shocker, huh."
The House will NEVER vote down the electors. Bank on it and quit dreaming. I don’t think the needle moves unless the states de-certify their own elections from the pressure that is being put on them.
There's 130 million certified voters on the national rolls. Trump won 74 million.
That means 25 million votes were manufactured out of thin air just for election day. These arent provisional ballots...these are absentee ballots....Then again, what should I expect from the left that buys the bullshit of 1010202101203021 genders.
Wolf Blitzer really should never try to match wits with anyone. Did you see him on Jeopardy? Dude is a complete fucking idiot. If that teleprompter wasn't in front of him you'd think he was a vegetable
I vividly and joyfully remember him on the night of the elections hitting an Error 404 race conditions and just zooming in and out of some area in South Florida for like two hours constantly talking about how if they just turn in X number of votes everything will begin to flip hahahahah
Amazing how you can get away with being an idiot for decades just by keeping a relentlessly straight face. Almost Buster Keaton-like, except sincerely stupid.
I am not holding my breath in fact I expect him to not do much. We will see if he is actually doing this as a part of DJT's plan tho or if he really is sticking it to his Boss because he's a slimy politician who has his finger to the political wind. Unlike some of the other cowardly Senators, he knows America outside the DC mob are peaceable (anyone who would have been willing to be violent is already in DC) and he will effectively be daring the MAGA mob to go after him personally, because he believes (probably, knows) that by sticking to ceremony, he would still be keeping both sides perplexed at his motives and unlike to move against him personally.
anyone who would have been willing to be violent is already in DC
Maybe. There could be another way to think about this. Maybe some guys who could lead and some who could follow decided to stay home and keep their powder dry.
on the 6th,
If they kick the can down the road for the 10 day commission, and we go home and organize, we will be decentralized and harder to control. If they are going to squash us, they'd better do it this Wednesday. It's their last chance.
This isn't a dispute. It's fraud committed by traitors from both parties acting in concert with a number of "private" individuals and outside including foreign entities.
You left out a step - The Vice-President also determines whether a state's slate of Electoral College voters are legally and/or ethically acceptable.
He does this when he calls out the state's envelope but before he opens it. He can reject any and all slates from a particular state, if he believes the integrity of the vote has been breached.
It doesn't go directly from "Pence determined dispute" to "House contingent election". There are hours of debates and a Senate and House vote to allow a contingent vote.
The contingent vote is the state by state (1 vote per state) scenario. That is triggered when no candidate has over the majority of the electoral votes (270 to start). So it isn't when it is objected by one house/senator and it goes to 2 hr debate. The contingent election would be if Pence throws out the slates from those states and then no candidate has over the majority of electors remaining.
This is a lie, why do people keep telling Trump supporters these blatant lies?
Are they trying to muddy the waters intentionally?
Well someone is intentionally telling the right lie after lie to muddy the waters, this is not accidental.,
instead of pretending to be a constitutional law major, post what the fuck you are talking about.
Instead of whining to me, you could have learned to use google by yourself
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-how-congress-settles-electoral-college-disputes
Absolute garbage article...your “googling” recommendation was useless. Did you read that article before you passed it along????
Here is the actual statute.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15
If you prefer to read this giant wall of text, be my guest, but it says the EXACT same thing.
I get here your coming from, but 95% of us are useful idiots who need spoonfed the most basic facts. Please capitalize important words like trump does too.
Ideally three clear sentences is the way to go.
Set the scene.
Cover the brunt.
Leave something to stick in their mind.
How does it actually work?
Pence opens the elector ballots, the ballots for each state is read individually, both houses are in the same chamber for this.
If a Senator and a Congressman object to the validity of a certain states ballots, then both sides adjourn to debate for 2 hours.
IF the senate and Congress agree that the ballots are fake, those ballots are disregarded. If the senate OR congress finds the ballots to be legit, those votes are counted.
IF enough ballots are tossed out and neither party has 270 elector votes, then congress determines president giving each state one vote, same with senate who determines vice president.
BUT the democrats will ALWAYS say the votes are legit, so why do people keep telling us these lies?
DJT better have a plan to nullify this corrupted outcome, even if it's extralegal, extrajudicial and extraconstitutional, even if that means he has the force the military to take sides.
Good, because ninety-plus million Americans are locked and loaded. The ones in DC had the time energy and means for that yes, but you can bet the Dems cannot survive civil war without foreign intervention.
well i look forward to what follows the 6th. I hope americans get organised into militias properly.
I hope enough of the Militia organizers know enough to let volunteers organically follow Yon's divisions: Guerrilla Forces, Auxiliary, and Support.
Can you please provide a link that shows that EITHER senate or congress can say "count the votes" if they disagree with one another?
Seems pretty fucking retarded if true.
Oh, Ok lemme see what I can find.
“Objections to individual state returns must be made in writing by at least one Member each of the Senate and House of Representatives. If an objection meets these requirements, the joint session recesses and the two houses separate and debate the question in their respective chambers for a maximum of two hours,” the CRS said. “The two houses then vote separately to accept or reject the objection. They then reassemble in joint session, and announce the results of their respective votes. An objection to a state’s electoral vote must be approved by both houses in order for any contested votes to be excluded.”
If you wanna read the whole thing
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-how-congress-settles-electoral-college-disputes
I've been saying this for weeks now...
This option of senate & house members contesting isn't great for us bc there's no way in high hell that Pelosi's house is going to agree to the fraud that they committed.
There has to be another way. (state legislators would be ideal)
Now, considering the Electoral Count Act, where does Cruz's 10-day commission fit in... since last time that was done was actually BEFORE the Electoral Count Act of 1887??
It doesn't mostly because that commission came into being BECAUSE the electoral count act of 1887 didn't exist.
They are not going to make another commission when the answer from the previous commission will still work.
That’s what I was afraid of.
And Cruz knows this. Why ask for a commission when there’s a new law in place that supersedes it
Solid link, thanks!
...and which part of the above do you believe is going to give Trump the “W” ????
There is literally ONE ROAD, that puts Trump in the POTUS thru the electoral college that I can find.
19 Democrats from the house and all the republicans in the house and senate have to vote to get rid of the disputed ballots.
That puts Trump and Biden under 270, that allows the House to elect Trump (because every state gets one vote).
I cannot find any other way, people keep thinking that Pence is thanos and can snap his fingers to get shit done, but that is nonsense.
...and there is absolutely no way in hell that is going to happen. We don’t even have a third of the house nor a fourth of the senate behind us. It’s done without some nuclear bomb of info.
Holy crap. If that is their plan, to show congress proof the election was rigged, then it ALREADY failed. Everyone knows it was rigged.
Pence will count the Trump electors only in the disputed states. Democrats forced to object and debate the election. Democrats manuevered into voting against counting those states ballots. This happens with enough states to make it impossible for either candidate to reach 270. Contingent election.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15
This is the actual law, what you are describing has nothing to do with the actual law.
It is right here: Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A;
Pence hands the paperwork to the tellers. Pence is the key.
What if they simply do not allow the Tellers to receive the paperwork they don't want...? who determines how they get there? Sargeant at Arms? Lots of opportunity for manipulation.
So what are you proposing exactly that Pence does?
Throw them away? Hide them in his briefcase?
Not fkn count fraudulent elections which went against the states constitution.
He could demand remedy by following own state guidelines for approval
Pence gives to the tellers the alternate slates of electors sent by the republican parties of the disputed states. Pence has "all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates", he picks what to pass on.
Ok, so when you have a disputed state ballot, say Michigan:
Senate votes (each person one vote) to say if votes are legit, same with the house.
If Both the Senate and the House vote NO, do not accept those electoral ballots, then the 16 votes from michigan would be tossed out and not used in calculating who becomes president.
If only ONE side says the Ballots are not legit (like the senate) and the other chamber says they are legit (like the house), then those ballots are deemed good and are used in calculating the presidency.
So if enough disputed ballots are tossed out (because the house and senate agree those votes are not valid) and NO one has 270 electoral counts, THAT is when you poll the states, where each state gets one vote to determine who the president is.
That make sense?
1.6.21
Calm down child.. Here is your answer, the EXACT SAME THING I WROTE, just in a much longer version
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-how-congress-settles-electoral-college-disputes
A source in this instance would be considered actual statutes, not opinion pieces.
It depends if the 12th Amendment is triggered.
Either you get the House and Senate deciding (and it must be both in agreement). Or it's the House that decides with one delegate per state. (GOP edge.)
We don't know what constitutional lawyers Trump and Pence are consulting, so we don't know what they are even considering.
Trump has trouble choosing competent and loyal lawyers. He chose Sessions, Rosenstein, Barr, Pat Cippolone and another pro-Biden inner circle lawyer. He picked those losers and he didn't pick Sidney Powell. (Well he picked her but then let Cippolone and Meadows overrule his decision.)
He needs to think and act like a General or he's toast.
He can. He needs to let the process play out as much as possible for appearances' sake.
THIS. This may be DJT's 'Trump' card fwiw. "Hey Roberts, remember those riots you were talking about? I think that's one of them outside your window. But it's not the rioters you were anticipating? Shocker, huh."
This makes sense but I hope it's true. Seems like every way we choose, the House is ready to push the fraud through.
The House will NEVER vote down the electors. Bank on it and quit dreaming. I don’t think the needle moves unless the states de-certify their own elections from the pressure that is being put on them.
Exactly my point. The only way is via state legislators who seem to not be able to get the decertification they bet the finish line. Pathetic.
I will still be praying, but some of the optimism that I am seeing on this site seems extreme and without merit.
Praying & calling state legislators on the fence is our best (& only) course of action right now.
There's 130 million certified voters on the national rolls. Trump won 74 million.
That means 25 million votes were manufactured out of thin air just for election day. These arent provisional ballots...these are absentee ballots....Then again, what should I expect from the left that buys the bullshit of 1010202101203021 genders.
and plan B....
Wolf Blitzer really should never try to match wits with anyone. Did you see him on Jeopardy? Dude is a complete fucking idiot. If that teleprompter wasn't in front of him you'd think he was a vegetable
Have you ever seen his face change expression? No, because his face HAS no expression. There's no there there. It's a test pattern.
I vividly and joyfully remember him on the night of the elections hitting an Error 404 race conditions and just zooming in and out of some area in South Florida for like two hours constantly talking about how if they just turn in X number of votes everything will begin to flip hahahahah
Amazing how you can get away with being an idiot for decades just by keeping a relentlessly straight face. Almost Buster Keaton-like, except sincerely stupid.
“Fasten your seatbelts. It’s going to be a bumpy night!”—Bette Davis as Margo Channing in “All About Eve”
The sad part is normies that are going to be absolutely blown away when the truth hits them.
At this point i won't be surprise if there is fuckery by Pence. But we'll see.
I am not holding my breath in fact I expect him to not do much. We will see if he is actually doing this as a part of DJT's plan tho or if he really is sticking it to his Boss because he's a slimy politician who has his finger to the political wind. Unlike some of the other cowardly Senators, he knows America outside the DC mob are peaceable (anyone who would have been willing to be violent is already in DC) and he will effectively be daring the MAGA mob to go after him personally, because he believes (probably, knows) that by sticking to ceremony, he would still be keeping both sides perplexed at his motives and unlike to move against him personally.
Maybe. There could be another way to think about this. Maybe some guys who could lead and some who could follow decided to stay home and keep their powder dry.
on the 6th, If they kick the can down the road for the 10 day commission, and we go home and organize, we will be decentralized and harder to control. If they are going to squash us, they'd better do it this Wednesday. It's their last chance.
I like Yon's take on insurrectionists' division of labor: Guerrilla Forces, Auxiliary Units, and Support.
since the judicial branch is beyond salvage, I'm the judge now. And I see Wolf Blitzer committing fraud in writing.
Wolf Blitzer shut the fuck up. Your face makes me angry. When you speak it's 1,000,000x worse.
I hope CNN dies a fiery death.
he's kinda skipping a few steps there by jumping straight to Contingent Election. That is not what happens first when there's a dispute.
They have seatbelts on the streets of DC?
This isn't a dispute. It's fraud committed by traitors from both parties acting in concert with a number of "private" individuals and outside including foreign entities.
It is a lot more straightforward if states decertify away from Biden, as I understand it.