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posted ago by ListenCarefully ago by ListenCarefully +34 / -1

Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. — Romans 5:9

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GCotN 4 points ago +4 / -0

As far as I understand it, being raised a conservative non-denominational christian, Jesus died to pay for all the world's sins. It is up to you, as a free person with the God given ability to CHOOSE, to decide whether or not to except his gift.

In other words, It is not up to God whether or not you go to hell, but rather it is up to you.

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ListenCarefully [S] -1 points ago +1 / -2

This is how millions understand it, and most of the world will be in happy agreement with it, but it is not the gospel.

For one it leaves room for boasting and in fact results in boasting before the Lord. You may say, "No this isn't boasting before the Lord", which will only show that you don't understand what boasting means. When you stand before God and you argue your case you made to me, saying salvation is ultimately up to man, that salvation is not conditioned on the work of Christ, and that His people aren't justified by His blood, then you will condemn yourself by your own words. You must repent of all these thoughts and you must repent of your wicked way and believe God's way. That salvation is all of God, that salvation is conditioned on the work of Christ.

Isaiah says "by His wounds we are healed." If He was slain for everyone, then everyone would be healed. But He was slain for the sins of His people.

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E-dantes 1 point ago +1 / -0

From the wrath of God, yes. From persecution on earth, no. We will surely be persecuted because of Him and our faith and proclamation of His name.

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ListenCarefully [S] 0 points ago +2 / -2

For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, — Philippians 1:29

In the same way God grants faith to His people so that they believe, He grants them to suffer so that they suffer for His sake.

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E-dantes 1 point ago +1 / -0

And through our suffering, His strength is glorified through the resilience through adversity that is granted to us by Him.

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deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
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Duke65 1 point ago +1 / -0

Not just the Jew, he died for any branch worthy of being grafted into the tree of life. That is the free gift.

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ListenCarefully [S] -1 points ago +1 / -2

This is what this passage is all about. They are part of Israel, even though they are foreigners.

Thus says the Lord, “Preserve justice and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come And My righteousness to be revealed. “How blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who takes hold of it; Who keeps from profaning the sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil.” Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely separate me from His people.” Nor let the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.” For thus says the Lord, “To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off. “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant; Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.” The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares, “Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered.” — Isaiah 56:1-8

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ListenCarefully [S] -1 points ago +1 / -2

Israel is His people, but Israel isn't what most people think it is. Present Israel is but not Israel above. It's the nation containing the Jerusalem above, the free city of Jerusalem above where the mountain of God, mount Zion dwells.

Paul teaches this here:

For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. — Romans 9:3-8

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. — Romans 2:28-29

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deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
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ListenCarefully [S] -1 points ago +1 / -2

They are all of the people God loves and who Jesus died for, men out of every tribe tongue and nation.

There are two groups within the elect, the believing elect who have already been granted faith to believe the gospel, and the lost elect who have yet to be given faith to believe, although in due time they will hear the gospel and be given faith to believe it.

God will see to it that they hear the gospel through the preach/writing of the elect who have already believed.

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deleted 0 points ago +0 / -0
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ListenCarefully [S] -1 points ago +1 / -2

The gospel is a specific message regarding the way of salvation. It's a report of good news. It deals with Christ's work on the cross.

Let's say you commit a crime, and the next week you have to stand before a judge. Let's say this judge declares to you that you are free to go, no punishment is necessary, I will not take into account your sin. If we were honest, there would be an uproar over this judge. People would be crying for justice, and how it isn't fair that criminals get a free pass. In our own country we notice a complete lack of justice. Everyone would consider this judge as unjust and unrighteous.

God will judge the earth one day, according to everyone's deeds, and He will do so with the standard of perfect righteousness. Meaning of anyone is found having less than perfect righteousness, they will be condemned.

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” — Galatians 3:10

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. — James 2:10

So the standard by which everyone will be judged is perfect righteousness. Think about what happened to Adam and Eve, they transgressed one time by eating some fruit they weren't supposed to, and they were kicked out of the the garden.

For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You. — Psalm 5:4

Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You can not look on wickedness with favor. — Habakkuk 1:13(a)

There is a lot to say and have barely scratched the surface, but I'll stop here just in case you have questions about any of this before I continue.

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ListenCarefully [S] -1 points ago +1 / -2

I'll answer your other questions as well but I'll go slow. If there's any questions about my response so far ask away, and then I'll address your other ones.

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ListenCarefully [S] -1 points ago +1 / -2

It's honest to ask questions, all are welcome.

You'll have to start with the premise that God is just. If He is a just judge, all sin must be answered and accounted for. He will by no means clear the guilty, and will by no means overlook sin. It all must be dealt with.

‘The Lord is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.’ — Numbers 14:18

How is God able to forgive His people if He is just? That is the great predicament.

God justifies ungodly men, He forgives iniquity. But how can He do such a thing and remain righteous?

Let's say a murderer kills all of your family with a sword in front of you, while your house security can is running. And just before killing you, you escape with your life. You and him stand in court before a judge and he asks you, "Did this man kill your family?" And you say, "Yes, I have proof on video of him doing it." And the tape is played before court, and the judge watches and says, "Wow, this is pure evil."

Then the judge gives the verdict. He says, "I hold the defendant, not guilty! I forgive him, he is free to go."

This judge just justified a murderer. The courtroom erupts because of the lack of justice. Everyone demands justice against this evil man. He is an unrighteous judge.

So how can God be just when He justifies the ungodly?

Every sin that anyone commits against God must be paid for in order to meet the demands of God's law and justice. Since God is a just God, He cannot simply forgive anyone's sins, without those sins being paid for in some way. The gospel teaches that Christ paid for the sins of His people through His redemptive work on the cross. How did He do it?

When He was in the garden, before He went to the cross, He was praying to His Father. What did He pray? He prayed this:

And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.” — Matthew 26:39

This cup is very significant. Notice what's said in Luke.

And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground. — Luke 22:41-44

What was going on? What was in this cup that He was in agony over? Just the thought of this cup was enough to agonize Him. Many will say that this cup refers to the crown of thorns, the whips lashing Him, the hanging by crucifixion, after being delivered over to the hands of evil men. But something else was happening. Something much greater, and most people don't even know a thing about it.

What was in the cup?

For a cup is in the hand of the Lord, and the wine foams; It is well mixed, and He pours out of this; Surely all the wicked of the earth must drain and drink down its dregs. — Psalm 75:8

Think about this verse:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us⁠—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”⁠— — Galatians 3:13

When Christ was on the cross He bore the sins of His people in His body, and the Father punished Him as if He were the one committing all of those sins. The Father poured out the cup of His wrath on Him, and crushed Him. When every last drop from this cup was poured out on Christ, He became the propitiation for the sins of His people, meaning, after all wrath was poured out on Christ for the sins of His people, the Father,'s wrath against those sins became fully appeased. Christ's atoning propitiatory sacrifice to pay for the sins of His people was an acceptable sacrifice. Payment for their sins has been made, and their redemption was accomplished, redeeming them with His precious blood.

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Duke65 1 point ago +1 / -0

HalleluHAYAH!