TLDR: They Stole It, They Don’t Represent Us, Fundamentally Changing America for the Worse, So what now?
This was a response to another post that I decided to open up as its own thread. I’m looking to push past the hopium and look at this practically and get an idea what people not high on the good stuff are thinking. I’m Not to interested in the Q stuff; so I won’t be getting to excited about your 11th hour Hail Mary Trump kicks everyone’s ass theory. But post it anyways if you must, this isn’t Twitter after all
The bad guys made the decision to steal the election and did knowing it had a high probability of success — because their opponents, us — are law-abiding, party of law and order, people of character, respectful, have morals, faith, mutual respect, empathy, and want to simply live the best version of our lives possible that doesn’t require stepping on everyone’s back and sacrificing others. We aren’t the people to burn cities down to get our way. We work inside the constraints of the law and the constitution.
So I pose an honest question to the community here. What now? Every person that I have ever seen post anything about Trump 2024 was practically ran out of the place, because we knew that if this wasn’t resolved NOW, there will never be another true election again, America lost. All the talk of “The Receipts”, the pedo/deep state MOABs, “The Laptop from Hell”, Ukraine calling out the Biden family by name, Biden admitting to withholding 1 billion from Ukraine if they didn’t fire that guy, China money, the list is long. If ALL of this hasn’t stopped the transfer of power, do people really think justice will be served once Trump is out?
Guys, I just about OD’d on Hopium last week. I checked myself into a metaphorical rehab facility last week and took a whole week off from TD.win. Sifting through the chaff to find truth was becoming nearly impossible. Too much theory and guess work.
What’s the way forward? Start a third party, we all join it, then run in every freaking local election from the Lead Highway Trash Management Collector Guy all the way up to Senator? Try to beat them at their own game? Conservatives swamp the universities with applications to be professors and slowly re-educate people over the next 3 to 4 decades? I’m actually hearing this stuff.
How are we expected to “win” elections if they are rigged? If they are not rigged in your area, we’ve learned from the 2020 election that all it takes is a few liberal stronghold cities in a few swing states to flip a national election. So then what? Wait another 2-4 years? Do we really think the DemonRat held House, Senate, and Presidency will bring in election reform with voter ID’s, paper ballots, eliminate computer fuckery, and hold to constitutional counting deadlines?
Any form of protest to make our voices heard will apparently be highjacked by ANTIFA/BLM terrorists, they will commit violence and break the law, patriots will be painted as the evil domestic terrorists. Big tech is censors POTUS, the highest office in the free world, gets away with it. Colludes with other tech giants to shuts down competition, breaking anti-trust laws BIG TIME, fuck it I guess. Free-speech gone.
Patriots are fired from their jobs if they are exposed as conservatives. POTUS is losing business opportunities in the state of New York, being dropped by lenders; sure, private business can work with who they want, but the precedent has been set, oppose us and lose your livelihood even after public office and you return to your private life. Great way to disincentive good people from running. I guess who gives a shit on that one too.
So we are moving towards to separate economies and societies living and operating in parallel. One supports the establishment players, the other supports conservatives. Okay, so do we start putting signs up that read, “No Trump/Biden voters served here!” It’s already happening. What a great place to live! So secede? I would think so, but that’s being painted as “unconstitutional”. Ol’ Honest Abe settled that whole debate back in the Civil War days, right? I’ve heard that one before
So since the constitution does not specifically state, “In 200+ years when a group of elitist career politicians work in a manner that do not reflect the will of the people you may secede from the union. Some really obvious clues, that the country a lot of people just died for to create, is being dismantled in front of you include but not limited to election fraud, corrupt MSM, demonization of a particular political party, the complete assault on Christianity, the removal of the words “father” or “mother” from the capitol building.”
Sorry guys, not in the constitution, hands are tied, it would be illegal to separate ourselves from and government body that did not represent us but still levied a federal income tax. No one has done it before, don’t even bring it up. So again, now what? Accept that this is the hand we’re dealt? Hang in there until the next election that is somehow no longer rigged?
I won’t EVEN MENTION that other thing. If you even talk about it you will probably get a visit from someone who really cares about your individual freedoms. So again again, now what?
Pull out the popcorn? Are we allowed to have popcorn? How much and when am I allowed to have it? Can I eat the popcorn in my government provided 500 sq’ apartment, or must I eat it outside during our daily recess time?
Do we just sit back and enjoy the show? The horror film that is the world right now? Should we be entertained by this?
Texit. It’s the only move I see. Everything else results in check mate
Texit and hope other red states follow. I’m down. But people need to understand the federal government will say no. People don’t seem to think that far ahead. The federal government doesn’t give a shit that Texas supposedly has a clause in its constitution that says it is “allowed” to secede. If they say no and we say yes....
...the US government doesn't have to lift a finger to financially strangle them from the inside out. You tell every major corporation that they'll face sanctions for operating in New Texas, and the country starts life with massive unemployment, crippled communication systems, and extremely limited access to any good not produced in its own state.
True. I mention other red states because Texas can’t do it alone. Never could. Other states would have to leave as well. Seceding states would need to move in numbers equaling economic critical mass. Essentially doing business in either the USA or Trumpville is equally lucrative. Trumpville is more business friendly and has lower taxes of course, so come on over!
The problem is there's no way enough states secede by force to make it worth giving up business in the US in order to do business there for like 95% of businesses. You'd lose millions of jobs in the short term. And lower taxes are great, but how do you keep all those unemployed people alive for the foreseeable future? Especially if a sudden break from the US could impact communication, access to medical supplies, and eliminate nearly all the markets that ranchers and farmers fo business with?
Perhaps that would act as a pressure point on the USA not bar businesses or tariff the hell out of Trumpville. It’s would be economic mutually assured destruction. California can’t float the blue states. They can’t float themselves.
All speculation here, but If there would be mass job loss, it would most likely favor one side over the other. People would flee from and to both sides. Given, but based on the color map of the vast majority of this country, we are red. I believe more people would go to Trumpville vs stay or go to the USA. In the short term there will be a surplus of labor, but let’s not forget the type of people that are making up this labor surplus. Entrepreneurs, tradesman, strong work ethic. I think and society of go-getters, self-starters, hard workers wrapped in blanket of a new society that appreciators capitalism and the America First ethos would very quickly jump start and grow an economy around this folks.
The drain and the following bust would hit the new blue USA. Their society favors government guarantees, jobs programs, tenure, and labor unions. Always bidding for the highest pay, most benefits, for the littlest work. They will struggle to start or salvage that economy, not for lack of talent, but because of their mindset.
the problem I see with red states seceding is they are the largest percentage by far of collecting federal welfare..that said what you also said is true...new business opportunities would also arise. If that is this only option for some and they feel the juice is worth the squeeze...ironically, California feeds a whole lot of states...but they are the conservatives in 'middle California'. There is actually plans going into action for New California. https://www.newcaliforniastate.com/ I went to a couple of their meetings.
the problem is...how do we get those in power? Example: Georgia
I’m with your thought camp and choosing to hold out one more day that Trump does us one last right to right them all🤞🏻. If all is lost like you lay out and I agree, what the is 1 more day to keep faith before I transition to the uncertain lifelong game plan above. Hopium will be cut off cold Turkey the 20th and the 21st I will begin looking for a new street dealer to self medicate. Last week I have convinced myself Trump will fall on the “sword” to bring in military and purge the swamp but indoingso he will be prevented from serving as president in the future through Democrat Reeeing and negotiating. It will be his sacrifice to prove he has always been on our side through these questionable times
what do you mean fall on his sword? what can he do at this point?
Take any chance at a second term off the table to ensure some justice and arrests are made. Swamp drained but not emptied.
Republicans have to figure out how to balance policy with social trends. Im sorry I don't have a more thorough answer, but thr truth is there simply won't be enough voters to sustain the party if we stay hard right on social justice matters (or to find the votes, we have to appeal to increasingly fringe interests which again pushes away moderates and independents).
I'm not sure it it means divorcing the very notion of things like marriage from government and trying to redefine what benefits are conferred based on legal partnership over "marriage", but I have a lot of 20/30 something friends and coworkers who like the idea of smaller government, less regulation, and lower taxes, but will never in a million years vote Republican as long as repealing same sex marriage is part of the Republican platform. And like it or hate it, big right wing events bring out dipshits in "Camp Auschwitz" and "6MWE" gear. I can't blame somebody who sees that on TV and say "if that's the political party for those folks it isn't the political party for me."
I'm not really sure how you get past some of these rapid shifts in social sensibilities, but very few voters seem to want to move backwards, and the world is only getting more diverse. Republicans have to figure out a way to survive in that new reality.
THIS! As long as conservatives are known as the party of religion, anti gay, anti abortion...they will stay in the minority. 'I' personally would not get an abortion or get married to the same sex, I DO NOT believe the government should get involved in it either. We claim to be the party of separation of church and state but LOVE lumping the two together as evidenced on this very forum. They are personal decisions, in the same way ingesting drugs are.
I think a third party would likely include influences from all over. So there would likely be some flex on those positions. In my mind, it would feel more libertarian, same sex marriage would be considered your personal choice. No one is getting hurt I this scenario, unlike abortion for instance. Any uncertainty with sin will be sorted out between each individual and God when that time comes.
IMO, your peers are bit short sighted if they distance themselves because of those two groups have been seen supporting conservatives. Obviously, they are an extreme minority that is disavowed by conservatives. It’s very Don Lemonesque to associate a large majority of a group with the vile ideology of a super minority because they put the same hat on as you. Ironically, which is lost on Don, That thinking falls squarely with other adjectives that end in “ist”
It would argue though that it is more fair for conservatives to group all democrats to unsavory groups like ANTIFA and BLM since democratic leadership, the MSM, and Twitter NPCs seem to really appreciate their work. It’s hard for the to argue that a large portion of the democratic populace ISN’T supportive of them based on their level of social acceptance. Even cutting the fake news out, DemonRat leadership and vocal social media goers really come out for those groups. You don’t see Republican leadership (using leadership loosely) or conservative taking heads supporting neo-nazis.
We are truly a 2 party system so I don't think a 3rd party would do it. I think 'like SO MANY other Trump supporters' think the government should simply stay out of personal decisions, that comes to abortion, marriage, religion. If the Republican party dropped those as their mainstays...they would grow in drastic numbers. I personally know of MANY who don't support Trump ONLY because of those three factors.
To your first point, I think that kind of separation of legal partnership from religious nomenclature is vital to modernizing any right wing party. Nearly every "independent" in my social circle is such because the dems don't really represent them, but they're also not asking my friends to vote to strip rights from the two men weve all known and been very close to for almost two decades.
To the second, I respectfully disagree. I personally don't think the conservative party does enough to disavow the antisemites and racists who find a place in our party. If they're comfortable enough to show up at a right wing event wearing their shitty, Nazi-glorifying colors knowing they aren't going to be shouted down and driven out immediately, we aren't doing enough. If nothing else they've found complacency on the republican party and that really bothers me.
To the last point, the problem is we lose the messaging war because, regardless of their tactics, they fight for causes that the average person supports - any decent American doesn't want a fascist government, and every decent American doesn't want police brutality to be a problem. It's why none of the arguments comparing the riots this summer to what happened on the 6th have gained any real traction outside of conservative circles - the average observer sees one as a community coming together to protest the execution of a black American in the middle of the street, and the other as a bunch of rednecks trying to overthrow our democracy at the direct behest of the guy who stands to lose power.
I'm not sure how you win that messaging war.
That’s the Catch-22 for Americans who truly support the constitution. Freedom of speech. Anyone can wear whatever they want, that says whatever they want, be in any public place they want and vote for whoever they want. Simultaneously. Are we to deny them their constitutional rights even if we find it disgusting? No. Should we act like the left, aggressively surround people with disagree with, scream at them with bull horns, maybe toss them around a bit so the MSM didn’t think we agree with them? No. We’d be the people we oppose if we did.
The answer relies in people’s abilities to critically think. I assume your circle of peers respects you and does not think you are like those animals. You are the window to our party, the face of us for your friends to see what we stand for. How can they disconnect you and leave the rest of us attached. They are breaking from logic and are lacking critical thinking in that moment. I’m not saying they are stupid, I’m pointing out that the critical thinking cards are stacked against us all with MSM fake news and rapid consumption of info I’m this Information Age. It’s easy to abdicate thought to the personality on the TV screen.
The only people that highlight nazi groups with conservatives are the MSM. I’ve personally never met one; I’ve only lived in red states my whole life. Including Oklahoma, most red voting conservative state of them all. It’s the Bible Belt here! They are living in false reality I’m afraid.
THIS again...the largest thing holding back the Republican Party is for being the party of keeping government out of our personal lives, they sure LOVE staying in it. If they ditched being the 'party of religion, anti-gay, anti-gay marriage' they would grow in drastic numbers. Most of the walkaway party is going to walk away again back to the dems because most republicans in office are absolutely nothing like Trump.