posted ago by acasper ago by acasper +3 / -0

I am seeing a lot of conversation about what we are against. This is important dialogue but the heart of a movement is always in what it stands for. If we allow what we are against to define us they live in our heads rent free. What do we stand FOR?

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mynewhat -2 points ago +1 / -3

All you guys stand for is Trump. Look at this fucking website, it's almost comical if it wasn't so twisted and demented that you worship anybody like this. You people are just a mess of crackpot conspiracies, racism and narcissism. You need to disband, take some time off and come back to reality that isn't centered around just a single human being.

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acasper [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

I have obviously seen evidence of the things you’re referring to on TDW. I have also seen many pedes actively combat those things with speech.

What I haven’t seen is our ideological opposition doing the same. I haven’t seen them decrying the violence we’ve seen on our streets for the last year. I haven’t seen the implicit support for segregation and perpetuation of racism in anti-racism and other forms of critical theory refuted by rational thinkers in our opposition.

The most powerful mechanism for indoctrination that I have experienced was the university I attended. That is my personal first hand experience. I had Zinn pushed down my throat from middle school through the end of my general credits as an undergraduate. I had critical theory pushed down my throat. I had collectivism pushed down my throat. I couldn’t stomach the hypocrisy implicit in those things so I rejected them where I could refute them. I then sought verifiable information. I found some of it here and I found some of it elsewhere. We are not a monolith. We are organized based on our ideals. We are by and large the group that accepts speech and criticism then refutes it. We’re not going anywhere.

I’d love to hear more about why you hold the opinions you do. It seems like we probably disagree on at least a few things. That does not preclude a conversation. Maybe we can both learn some things about the world and our opposition.

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mynewhat 0 points ago +1 / -1

I suppose let's start with: what does Trump stand for, to you?

And, do you understand how he's perceived as a selfish, narcissistic, pathological liar?

Because I can already say that I feel the ideals we both hold will have a lot of grey area and overlap, but the person you chose to be the face of the movement is one of the most negatively divisive individuals to ever hold public office.

I'd love to know more about the mechanics of why you would support Trump. How do you perceive him?

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acasper [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

Hey I appreciate this! Trump stands for an opposition to much of the status quo to me. In no way do I blindly support any politician and that includes Trump. He demonstrated that he aligned with my ideals when he promoted American exceptionalism and reshoring industry. I especially appreciated the restraint with which he handled many situations most recently the transition of power to Biden and the use of federal forces in policing matters around riots and health matters around covid over the last year. He could have behaved like a dictator and even as the media called him a dictator he refused to do so. Those actions exposed the hypocrisy of our opposition in the moment and will continue to do so as we move forward (states now trying to depoliticize covid, prevent violent rioting, etc).

Yes Trump was divisive, but what actually made him divisive? To a great degree I have found that it was a media that had a profit incentive to portray him as a divisive politician. There are many instances of this that persist to this day and are clearly part of a cohesive and dictated narrative that stems from technocrats who have no ideology except a willingness to do anything to accumulate power. My favorite example is the claim that Trump is a white supremacist racist who hates people of color. He is not and was not. I’d love to hear your perspective on this specifically as you mentioned it in your original comment.

Much of my support of Trump stemmed from a respect of his willingness to call out the hypocrisy of narratives like “Voter ID is Exclusionary” for what they were and are. Identitarian Pandering. People of all colors can get an ID. They know where the DMV is. They need a drivers license just like everyone else. Another favorite of mine was “Immigration is Good” while entirely disregarding the balance that exists in any society and the obviously detrimental impact of illegal immigration on citizens and the immigrants themselves. Illegal immigration serves to increase the power of technocrats by allowing them to subvert the free market of labor through threats of deportation. Preventing illegal immigration prevents their ability to do so. What is being proposed currently around mass naturalization is something that I am in support of in spirit. That being said, if we’re going to mass naturalize we need to prevent the illegal immigration before doing so and subject those being naturalize to a reasonable scrutiny of their actions. Take the opportunity to pilot a new immigration model that can be incrementally improved and implemented at our borders.

I do find it telling that you didn’t ask me what I believe in personally and instead seemed to frame me, as a user of TDW, as a Trump Sycophant which I am most definitely not. I question your motives for participating in this community but fully acknowledge your right to be here and question mine as well.

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mynewhat 0 points ago +1 / -1

Yes Trump was divisive, but what actually made him divisive?

Here are individual tweets from Trump, no media translating or interfering:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DknGZs6WsAA16Gq.jpg

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/8D06/production/_91220163_453f96c2-724e-4dfa-9653-73deb8c3ea55.png

https://static.politico.com/6e/c8/c81da1e744cca36005fc0b094f29/150911-trump-tweet-screenshot-1160.jpg

https://i.insider.com/59dd308092406c2a008b5965?width=750&format=jpeg&auto=webp

Before we go down the other routes, I'm curious if you could read these and still come away feeling that Trump's behavior wasn't the divisive element in play here and still pin it on the "media." Because I think that's a really easy out for people to not own up to the fact that he's a pretty despicable person in general.

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GinoOdjick2020 1 point ago +1 / -0

This is hilarious.

The sycophants who think Obama had a "scandal free presidency" are projecting that Trump voters are delusional.

I perceive Trump as having been an effective POTUS who was competent.

The divisive people are the racists projecting racism onto others. 18M non-whites voted for Trump- you unperson them. A non-white is what you say they are or they don't exist. You didn't hear the Venezuelans explaining that Biden being elected was identical to Chavez being elected. You don't acknowledge that black Americans stayed home. You don't care that Biden was best friends with Strom Thurmond or called Robert Byrd his KKK mentor.

Stop projecting. Come back to reality.