Yup. One of WW2 Germany’s most effective interrogators simply befriended and chatted with his marks. If you inflict enough pain on someone they’ll confess to almost anything.
During WW2 the British famously imprisoned captured German officers together in luxury manor houses, The officers were free to discuss military operations with each other in private, which the Brits heard because every room was bugged.
You don't go to prison until you've been convicted. If you confessed, you did so before you were sentenced. Stuff that occurs outside the system, though, is another matter.
achshuuualllleeee ... ever since the first patriot act technically habeus corpus has been suspended.
Could also be prison now. if they feel like it. all they have to do is label you a terrorist/enemy combatant and you can be imprisoned indefinitely without being charged.
That was only one of the things that stood out to me when that was passed.
There were also other utterly ridiculous things like even attempting (not even being successful in) to hand draw, in crayon, a picture of a railroad or any municipal or federal institution, and mail it, even if you are caught and don't pull it off, is now a federal crime. (or at least can be called one if they want to arrest you)
I'm not making this up.
Read the original patriot act, its so vague its ridiculous. Obama repealed some things, but upheld others, and I believe some have been re-instituted.
did trump have this info? if so for how long and why wasnt anything done about it? did he take mitch's advice? maybe jared couldve focused more on this than israel. why was that bitch haspel there for so long anyway?
Id imagine he did. All I had to do was pull up willam Barrs wiki to find out.
Im a Qtard and even tho Q said to trust Barr, I alsways had a hard time doing so because of his past. This being one of many, of his questionable accomplishments.
To be honest yes these are all horrible things and yes I'm sure they use it against political opposition and shit but if this was against ISIS members or something? Rape away. I have no sympathy for scum like that and torture has been used for all of recorded history because it works.
Unfortunately that scum is funded and used by the CIA so I doubt it's them they're torturing. More like whistleblowers and political dissidents/opposition.
If left to their devices, these types of torture will soon be for the crime of being a conservative. If you doubt me, check out the past three days. This is a warning.
Yep. You are 100% right. I'm just not some bleeding heart liberal who will sit here and cry about some Islamic radical who would slice off your head with a dull machete in public and take your mother daughter and wife as sex slaves afterwards... especially if said torture could result in actionable intel that would save American lives... plus you know the rest of the world does it so if we ban our guys from being able we kind of are putting ourselves at a disadvantage.
But the agencies in question have shown time and time again that they are not to be trusted and the less power they have the better.
I just like to examine things realistically.... PLUS this is the way that men like Barr view the situation with the out of control IC. A lot of people will hear this story about the beating and assume it's some normal soccer mom being tortured because she drove down the wrong culdesac.... and they will be absolutely flabbergasted when it all gets swept under the rug and even those we trust don't seem to object (Nunes/Jordan/etc).
The IC is allowed to break laws when it's deemed a matter of national security... not just as a matter of practice but as a matter of law. Look up the DOJ CIA non-prosecution agreement.
Just like the US government, you're assuming their guilt with no proof. That's the problem in itself: no due process. The "terrorists" are simply accused and seized, and evidence? why the hell do we need evidence? We'll just torture a confession out of them.
An innocent person has no way to escape this process of indefinite detention.
I know that's what I just said. I don't think they should have the power to do that because I do not trust them, not because I am against the techniques (assuming they applied properly and to appropriate targets).
Yes I said that, I wasn't expecting to have my words used against me in some debate. I assumed people would actually be interested in understanding my veiwpoint... not trying to insult me.
Anyway, my point is what I've stated, if used in the appropriate circumstance I have no problem with them using torture. Torture is fucking brutal, no description of it is going to sound ok.
I do not trust any part of our DOJ/IC to only utilize these power appropriately so I am against them having these powers. My motivation for this opinion is pragmatic, not ethical.
Let me rephrase my initial statement you seemed so upset by...
"If, theoretically, there was an enemy of the United State's (a real one) who had information that would lead the saving of American lives... and they were withholding that information from us... well then I am ok with torturing them to extract said information. In that scenario I would be ok with any means of torture including the examples given by snowden."
I disagree.
What if some ISIS/Al Queda group managed to steal a nuke from us or Russia.. What if there was intelligence they would use it on a major US city within a month or two if it wasn't found and taken back first. Imagine if we got hold of a terrorist who knew where they were storing the nuke, knew how they had it guarded, knew the plans for it's use and the timeline... but he wouldn't say a word to any US forces.
Would it be ok to use torture to extract the information then?
Actually, I read that it does. It's the earliest torture that gets the goods. If it goes on and on, then, of course, they'll start making stuff up. But, if you do it right, in the beginning, you have a brief window where the info is good. IIRC, that's why waterboarding was so widely used.
No, I don't have a cite. Neither do you. So, look it up. I'm not 'proving' my argument, I'm showing the flaws in yours.
Most of Trump government hires get called out for being corrupt or sick yet the man never did anything about it. Meanwhile Dementia Joe and his team are firing anyone and everyone.
Hindsight is 20/20. He could also have been trying to not get himself killed. Seems like bad things happen when you go against the CIA or the Federal Reserve.
He really was... and he was much too decent sometimes. Which is hilarious because of what most people have been convinced by the MSM. if Trump was even half what they claimed they'd all be in jail and not back using our federal power structure for their own sick devices.
Because he had swamp people whispering in his ear 24/7. You can't fire civil service hires anyway. Trump actually greatly reduced personnel at all levels because they were an unnecessary surplus put their by Barry.
Trump was getting swamp recommendations and Mitch McConnell was not forcing Trump's picks through the approvals. He refused to let the senate shut down so Trump could get approvals due to them being closed (forgot the term).
I'm sure Trump picked her because of pressure from GOP. Basically, Mitch or others would say "this is your candidate, and if you don't choose her we're going to obstruct anything you want to get passed in Congress"
Trump tried to teach the GOP to win. Especially early on, he thought the resist movement would go away once people realized he was doing actual good for the country.
because no alternative and first woman cia director sounds better than nothing.. also torture supposedly meant things like waterboarding, remember? Trump was for that kind of torture for terrorists. Also at the time nobody knew about the pregnant woman story.. I still don't know if it's true (doubtful). We knew about waterboarding, that's all.
HW Bush was CIA director without having been in the CIA. A better pick would be an 18 year old working at Burger King that happens to have a conscience. Instead he chose the virtue points diversity hire.
Lol just look how hard it was to get Ratcliffe at DNI. He had to go through hell but was better prepared and waited at the right time. He finally made it in a boring session during a pandemic with lot of handsoap and masks. That only happened because that was after the CIA/FBI got exposed in the Mueller' fiasco. The intel community is a clique.
When asked about former CIA Director Michael Hayden’s recent comments that the military could defy unlawful orders to torture or kill civilians, Trump said:
They won’t refuse. They’re not going to refuse, believe me. You look at the Middle East, they’re chopping off heads, they’re chopping off the heads of Christians and anybody else that happens to be in the way, they’re drowning people in steel cages, and now we’re talking about waterboarding… It’s fine, and if we want to go stronger, I’d go stronger too. Because frankly, that’s the way I feel. Can you imagine these people, these animals, over in the Middle East that chop off heads, sitting around talking and seeing that we’re having a hard problem with waterboarding? We should go for waterboarding and we should go tougher than waterboarding.
Because the intel community was a clique and has only sarted to change recently because of Ratcliffe. When Trump nominated her, all the advisors said she was on the up and up. Don't get lost in the timeline.
Ratcliffe is the only good man in the entire intel community. Even Pompeo is shady when he was CIA director. He didn't question anything, didn't turn the boat. Ratfcliffe has been exposing the pro china stance of the CIA and he is a warrior for truth.
also didnt pardon assange, the swamp pretty much had him by the balls. Anyone expecting Trump to return are going to be hugely disappointing. If he does return, it will be as controlled opposition.
Everything she did to others will be done to conservatives now that the left has seized power.
I think the camps will start with the green zone stuff in the CDC plans,made to appear to be for Covid.
They really exist to put the enemies of the state into while the resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is destroying the economy,the country and the constitution.
It might take some time,but it is no doubt on their agenda.
This is something the left continuously brought up when Trump appointed her and folks here brushed it off like it was fake news. I like the community here but we really need to call out shit for what it is and not play this partisan bullshit. We are about truth and truth only.
Yes! The REAL Rick Ross. I still think “they” manufactured that bullshit rap guy fake named Rick Ross, right before the real RR was about to get out of prison and take his story public just to confuse and bury it. The real Rick Ross had a radio show after his time in prison. It was some heavy duty shit. For years his cia handlers would tip him off to any impending raids at his dozens of crack houses and he would always have the place cleaned out before the raids. Until one day.....
They used Rick for their agenda and then turned him into the scapegoat for their destruction of inner cities and culture with crack, and their guns, drugs, money laundering operations. Corrupt media, government, intel agencies minimized “damage” (aka exposure of the truth).
people like to say that the cia deliberately brought crack to the black community. fact is the rogue agents would sell to anybody that can buy bulk in huge amounts. race etc doesnt matter.
And these are organizations we're supposed to trust.
I heard him talking about it briefly before in an interview. I'm going to watch some more videos where he is discussing the topic to get a better idea of how deep it goes.
That a frontline person doing torturing becomes a CIA head. Not likely. Not likely they even did those things. If they brought someone to a secret detention center in another country people there would do that stuff.
She was in charge of it. My wife is an executive of a multimillion dollar company. The people below never do a damn thing without their higher ups know about it. And it goes this way from the bottom all the way to the top. COrporations and govt branches are very efficient at this.
I don't care if her cold hearted hands was not the one anal raping that guy with food, she ordered it from someone below her which ordered some other low life to follow the orders. Just as she gave her report to her handler. This is how it works
I agree, but the tweet doesn't state she herself committed these actions, merely that she participated in the same program which produced these actions. Based on the tweet, sounds like she was in a management role at the time. It also doesn't absolve her of destroying the evidence related to this.
This is how you get people to confess to things that they did not do.
Sounds very 1984
Yup. One of WW2 Germany’s most effective interrogators simply befriended and chatted with his marks. If you inflict enough pain on someone they’ll confess to almost anything.
During WW2 the British famously imprisoned captured German officers together in luxury manor houses, The officers were free to discuss military operations with each other in private, which the Brits heard because every room was bugged.
Hanns Scharff . Was a decent human being and his book is a good read.
He retired somewhere in the American southwest as a sculptor/artist.
Thanks bro, I hadn’t heard his name in 15+ years, couldn’t remember it.
No worries. I hope more people read his book if they see the info.
A lot of prisons do that today most of the ones with high conviction cases including here in america.
You don't go to prison until you've been convicted. If you confessed, you did so before you were sentenced. Stuff that occurs outside the system, though, is another matter.
No you can spend months in prison simply waiting for trial. Not everyone makes bail.
That's jail.
Came here to say that.
achshuuualllleeee ... ever since the first patriot act technically habeus corpus has been suspended.
Could also be prison now. if they feel like it. all they have to do is label you a terrorist/enemy combatant and you can be imprisoned indefinitely without being charged.
That was only one of the things that stood out to me when that was passed. There were also other utterly ridiculous things like even attempting (not even being successful in) to hand draw, in crayon, a picture of a railroad or any municipal or federal institution, and mail it, even if you are caught and don't pull it off, is now a federal crime. (or at least can be called one if they want to arrest you)
I'm not making this up.
Read the original patriot act, its so vague its ridiculous. Obama repealed some things, but upheld others, and I believe some have been re-instituted.
CIA=KGB
Did the KGB drug and torture children in experiments designed to give them split personalities and turn them into helplessly obedient mind-slaves? No?
The problem with comparing anything to the C_A: virtually everything falls far short of their evil.
Didn't William Barr defend her and won the right to destroy those tapes?
Didn't Mike Pompeo thank her for her service?
Yes. Yes he did.
did trump have this info? if so for how long and why wasnt anything done about it? did he take mitch's advice? maybe jared couldve focused more on this than israel. why was that bitch haspel there for so long anyway?
Id imagine he did. All I had to do was pull up willam Barrs wiki to find out.
Im a Qtard and even tho Q said to trust Barr, I alsways had a hard time doing so because of his past. This being one of many, of his questionable accomplishments.
To be honest yes these are all horrible things and yes I'm sure they use it against political opposition and shit but if this was against ISIS members or something? Rape away. I have no sympathy for scum like that and torture has been used for all of recorded history because it works. Unfortunately that scum is funded and used by the CIA so I doubt it's them they're torturing. More like whistleblowers and political dissidents/opposition.
If left to their devices, these types of torture will soon be for the crime of being a conservative. If you doubt me, check out the past three days. This is a warning.
First its ISIS. Then someone who's bad but not quite as bad as ISIS. Then its regular people, this is just how we do things now.
Yep. You are 100% right. I'm just not some bleeding heart liberal who will sit here and cry about some Islamic radical who would slice off your head with a dull machete in public and take your mother daughter and wife as sex slaves afterwards... especially if said torture could result in actionable intel that would save American lives... plus you know the rest of the world does it so if we ban our guys from being able we kind of are putting ourselves at a disadvantage.
But the agencies in question have shown time and time again that they are not to be trusted and the less power they have the better.
I just like to examine things realistically.... PLUS this is the way that men like Barr view the situation with the out of control IC. A lot of people will hear this story about the beating and assume it's some normal soccer mom being tortured because she drove down the wrong culdesac.... and they will be absolutely flabbergasted when it all gets swept under the rug and even those we trust don't seem to object (Nunes/Jordan/etc).
The IC is allowed to break laws when it's deemed a matter of national security... not just as a matter of practice but as a matter of law. Look up the DOJ CIA non-prosecution agreement.
Exactly right. That is why I do not support them having this kind of power, especially right now.
We can't become the monsters we seek to fight.
Agree
Torturing people to save our own from death, etc... isn't becoming the monsters that we fight.
Murderers who blow up innocent civilians deserve waterboarding, etc... that does not make US monsters.
Get smarter. Be better.
You're a domestic terrorist now. Just ask Rachel Maddow.
Think it might be worthwhile to have some restraints on power, even if they do use the word "terrorist"?
Just like the US government, you're assuming their guilt with no proof. That's the problem in itself: no due process. The "terrorists" are simply accused and seized, and evidence? why the hell do we need evidence? We'll just torture a confession out of them.
An innocent person has no way to escape this process of indefinite detention.
You’re a fucking idiot then, because the ones doing the raping are the ones deciding who is isis
I saw a number of "American Isis" headlines after the 6th....
I know that's what I just said. I don't think they should have the power to do that because I do not trust them, not because I am against the techniques (assuming they applied properly and to appropriate targets).
you said “ if this is isis or something then rape away” which is a stupid sentiment for the reason i stated
Yes I said that, I wasn't expecting to have my words used against me in some debate. I assumed people would actually be interested in understanding my veiwpoint... not trying to insult me.
Anyway, my point is what I've stated, if used in the appropriate circumstance I have no problem with them using torture. Torture is fucking brutal, no description of it is going to sound ok.
I do not trust any part of our DOJ/IC to only utilize these power appropriately so I am against them having these powers. My motivation for this opinion is pragmatic, not ethical.
Let me rephrase my initial statement you seemed so upset by...
"If, theoretically, there was an enemy of the United State's (a real one) who had information that would lead the saving of American lives... and they were withholding that information from us... well then I am ok with torturing them to extract said information. In that scenario I would be ok with any means of torture including the examples given by snowden."
Agree 100%, this is also why I oppose the death penalty. I think the scum deserve to die, I just don't want to give that power to the government
Torture is never right, just kill them and move on if they need killing
I disagree. What if some ISIS/Al Queda group managed to steal a nuke from us or Russia.. What if there was intelligence they would use it on a major US city within a month or two if it wasn't found and taken back first. Imagine if we got hold of a terrorist who knew where they were storing the nuke, knew how they had it guarded, knew the plans for it's use and the timeline... but he wouldn't say a word to any US forces.
Would it be ok to use torture to extract the information then?
No
I disagree pretty staunchly.
Killing, though, won't get you tactical information.
neither does torture
Actually, I read that it does. It's the earliest torture that gets the goods. If it goes on and on, then, of course, they'll start making stuff up. But, if you do it right, in the beginning, you have a brief window where the info is good. IIRC, that's why waterboarding was so widely used.
No, I don't have a cite. Neither do you. So, look it up. I'm not 'proving' my argument, I'm showing the flaws in yours.
It sure as hell does, it does all the time.
no, it doesn’t- info gotten via torture is always unreliable by nature
I'm sorry to say you haven't done your research here.
Most of Trump government hires get called out for being corrupt or sick yet the man never did anything about it. Meanwhile Dementia Joe and his team are firing anyone and everyone.
Trump was always way to much worried about being perceived as a dictator
Hindsight is 20/20. He could also have been trying to not get himself killed. Seems like bad things happen when you go against the CIA or the Federal Reserve.
See JFK and RFK. Teddy's Chappaquiddick episode may have been part as well.
who the hell knew the "government" was so corrupt and evil ...but now we do
He really was... and he was much too decent sometimes. Which is hilarious because of what most people have been convinced by the MSM. if Trump was even half what they claimed they'd all be in jail and not back using our federal power structure for their own sick devices.
Because he had swamp people whispering in his ear 24/7. You can't fire civil service hires anyway. Trump actually greatly reduced personnel at all levels because they were an unnecessary surplus put their by Barry.
he could have revaled all he knew about say haspel to the public and force/shame her/it to retire.
To be fair they wouldn't let anyone near him they couldnt have compromised.
Trump made some abysmal calls as President and most of those were his picks.
He did make the picks, but his pool of picks was entirely swamp.
Yeah they wouldn't give him any pool to pick from that wasn't satanic
Trump was getting swamp recommendations and Mitch McConnell was not forcing Trump's picks through the approvals. He refused to let the senate shut down so Trump could get approvals due to them being closed (forgot the term).
spez: recess appointments
sounds like mitch the bitch had mor epower.
CIA also piped hummous up the anuses of prisoners called rectal feeding and rehydrated them with rectal rehydration when they refused to eat or drink
Serious question: How do you keep someone alive that refuses to eat/drink? Is there a way to give them an IV that they cannot pull out?
Strapped to a table with a tube up your nose. It's what they did to the gitmo prisoners when they went on a hunger strike.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/18/politics/guantanamo-prisoners-go-on-hunger-strike.html
Yes, a feeding tube but they cant move around
This will be what happens inside the reeducation camps
Trump hired her.
Why?
I'm sure Trump picked her because of pressure from GOP. Basically, Mitch or others would say "this is your candidate, and if you don't choose her we're going to obstruct anything you want to get passed in Congress"
Trump tried to teach the GOP to win. Especially early on, he thought the resist movement would go away once people realized he was doing actual good for the country.
Pretty much. I knew Mitch was a traitor as soon as I knew he wouldn’t allow recess appointments.
because no alternative and first woman cia director sounds better than nothing.. also torture supposedly meant things like waterboarding, remember? Trump was for that kind of torture for terrorists. Also at the time nobody knew about the pregnant woman story.. I still don't know if it's true (doubtful). We knew about waterboarding, that's all.
HW Bush was CIA director without having been in the CIA. A better pick would be an 18 year old working at Burger King that happens to have a conscience. Instead he chose the virtue points diversity hire.
How was there no alternative? There had to have been someone out there better than this broad trump could have picked.
Lol just look how hard it was to get Ratcliffe at DNI. He had to go through hell but was better prepared and waited at the right time. He finally made it in a boring session during a pandemic with lot of handsoap and masks. That only happened because that was after the CIA/FBI got exposed in the Mueller' fiasco. The intel community is a clique.
This. He could have ignored her, and appointed a temp. Without Senate confirmation. Once the temp's tenure was up, appoint another.
Or, ignored her, and let the department run itself, with the 2nd in command doing his usual job, make the decisions, etc...
Trump supports torture, that's why
Really good question. I'd really like trump to eventually talk about these picks. We need to know to figure out how to prevent this in the future.
Because the intel community was a clique and has only sarted to change recently because of Ratcliffe. When Trump nominated her, all the advisors said she was on the up and up. Don't get lost in the timeline.
Ratcliffe is the only good man in the entire intel community. Even Pompeo is shady when he was CIA director. He didn't question anything, didn't turn the boat. Ratfcliffe has been exposing the pro china stance of the CIA and he is a warrior for truth.
This has been going on since the 40s at least. The entire swamp needs to be drained but..
The only one with a chance of doing it was basically told he and his family would be murdered if he continued to try after 1/6?
also didnt pardon assange, the swamp pretty much had him by the balls. Anyone expecting Trump to return are going to be hugely disappointing. If he does return, it will be as controlled opposition.
by returning the election rules to the state legislatures, the swamp will lose its phony votes...
Imagine what these sick CIA PEDOS did to children!
CIA is worse and more evil than fbi think about that
Yet, she’ll live a life of luxury until her dying day.
Biggest sponsors of terror worldwide, change my mind.
Everything she did to others will be done to conservatives now that the left has seized power.
I think the camps will start with the green zone stuff in the CDC plans,made to appear to be for Covid. They really exist to put the enemies of the state into while the resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is destroying the economy,the country and the constitution.
It might take some time,but it is no doubt on their agenda.
where is gyna... anyone seen her after her alleged resignation?Anyone seen her since the Germany raid?..... hmmmmmmmmm
Yep, she is back in time to resign. Did it a day or so ago
so thats who taught the libyans.
This is something the left continuously brought up when Trump appointed her and folks here brushed it off like it was fake news. I like the community here but we really need to call out shit for what it is and not play this partisan bullshit. We are about truth and truth only.
Didn't Rick Ross (former drug dealer) say he worked for the CIA?
Yes! The REAL Rick Ross. I still think “they” manufactured that bullshit rap guy fake named Rick Ross, right before the real RR was about to get out of prison and take his story public just to confuse and bury it. The real Rick Ross had a radio show after his time in prison. It was some heavy duty shit. For years his cia handlers would tip him off to any impending raids at his dozens of crack houses and he would always have the place cleaned out before the raids. Until one day.....
They used Rick for their agenda and then turned him into the scapegoat for their destruction of inner cities and culture with crack, and their guns, drugs, money laundering operations. Corrupt media, government, intel agencies minimized “damage” (aka exposure of the truth).
people like to say that the cia deliberately brought crack to the black community. fact is the rogue agents would sell to anybody that can buy bulk in huge amounts. race etc doesnt matter.
And these are organizations we're supposed to trust.
I heard him talking about it briefly before in an interview. I'm going to watch some more videos where he is discussing the topic to get a better idea of how deep it goes.
Explain to me why the president can't order the doors shut on FBI and CIA? Why did Trump allow them to exist?
right, he is commander in chief of the military after all.
How do you rape someone with a meal?
Feeding tube inserted into the backside. It was how they kept detainees alive when they went on hunger strikes.
Gross. But thx for the explanation, I really had no idea wtf he was talking about unless the meal was a plate of whole carrots & cucumbers.
they fucked him with a bowl of soup
That woman was watching the South Park episode where they crapped out her mouth and just shook her head going “That’s not how it works, I would know”
Is she dead or what?
This would be a good punishment for CNN and MSNBC for being absolute communist bastards.
Why didn't Trump pardon him?
Remind me, why did Donald Trump appoint this sick pieces of shit?
Fuck that bitch
gross, i wuldnt with your dick and a 10 foot pole.
FUCK SNOWDEN
There was coverage of her return and resignation a few days ago
Yep, gone but not forgotten
shes not at Gitmo because none of the other deep state fucks like clapper and comey who should be there are.
Everything in that post makes now like Haspel.
Ain't gonna lie, I'm ok with that happening to our enemies. ESPECIALLY the muslim ones.
BTW, GINA HASPEL IS AN ENEMY.
Not likely.
That a frontline person doing torturing becomes a CIA head. Not likely. Not likely they even did those things. If they brought someone to a secret detention center in another country people there would do that stuff.
She was in charge of it. My wife is an executive of a multimillion dollar company. The people below never do a damn thing without their higher ups know about it. And it goes this way from the bottom all the way to the top. COrporations and govt branches are very efficient at this. I don't care if her cold hearted hands was not the one anal raping that guy with food, she ordered it from someone below her which ordered some other low life to follow the orders. Just as she gave her report to her handler. This is how it works
You don't know how blackmail works.
I agree, but the tweet doesn't state she herself committed these actions, merely that she participated in the same program which produced these actions. Based on the tweet, sounds like she was in a management role at the time. It also doesn't absolve her of destroying the evidence related to this.
think how during the nuremberg trials the upper ranks got convicted while the lower ranks were exonerated for following orders.
Found Gina Haspel! ^