600 cubic meters is 785 cubic yards. A typical concrete truck carries 10 cubic yards with the usable concrete being a little less than that. This pour would take a minimum of 80 trucks. Think of all that diesel pollution. The horror....the horror...
Had many conversations about "free energy turbines" they usually get mad when you spit facts. Man hours, truck transportation, idle time, heavy machinery operation. Drilling for underground cable to incorporate it to the grid. Manufacturing the cable, delivery of cable, installation of cable. Then all of the same goes for the actual wind turbine itself. Maybe even more.
Then the blades have a limited lifespan and go straight to the landfill. What about that?
These feel-good "environmental" folks fail to see the whole picture. They only see skewed financial break even information. Not the whole environmental break even, or total cost break even, including continual maintenance and service.
They're a damn eyesore on our beautiful landscape, mess with the food chain and ecosystem, and make a ton of noise...
I just flew over the Columbia River gorge the other day (I hadn't seen it from the air for decades as I usually take an aisle seat). I was shocked at the vast numbers of turbines I saw and remembered that there wasn't a single one there back in the mid 90s when I used to drive through there a few times a year.
785 cubic yards X 400lbs of CO2 per yard concrete = 314,000lbs of CO2 released = 143 metric tons CO2. We haven't even got to all the emissions from producing and shipping the iron rebar.
I calculated that an equivalent CO2 for a power plant burning natural gas is 3 metric tons. Can that be right?
A wind turbine produces about 500 kW per year. I read somewhere that the lifetime of a wind turbine is about 30 years. I don't remember where. For a total lifetime energy production of 15 MW.
This would be for 1 year, so assuming 30 year lifespan that would be a total estimate of 131,400MWh.
If you take that number and multiply by the amount of co2 per kwh of natural gas, it would be 26.28M kg of co2. (If I did my math right)
The co2 released by the concrete alone wouldn't come close to the co2 emissions from natural gas for a comparable lifetime power output, but as there's a lot more co2 released in other aspects of wind turbine production (rebar, material transport, mining, manufacturing, assembly, maintenance, cables, etc) it's hard to say how efficient they really are. This would be something cool to look into.
all that for a 2-3 MW capacity. That is what it is capable of, not what it produces, which is measured in MWh. That varies wildly with the conditions of course. They do not produce 2-3 MWh 24/7 all year, unlike the rated capacities of non-peaker CC and nuke plants.
Bud, you have not even touched on Rare Earth Minerals yet that are required for the turbine to function at its stated efficiency...dwarfs the concrete cost in devastation.
Not to mention the giant diesel guzzling machines used to strip the gravel in the concrete out of precious Mother Earth leaving giant raw scars on her beautiful surface. And look at all that steel. How many trainloads and trucks of iron ore have been ripped out of our mountains, trucked to a filthy smoke belching factory before being processed and then trucked out again?
Enough to change the magnetic poles of the Earth. Seriously, some of what is attributed to global warming is the overmining of the iron range changing the rotation of the Earth.
It’s not just that... The production of Portland cement is one the biggest sources of CO2 pollution. From Wikipedia:
“The cement industry is one of the two largest producers of carbon dioxide (CO2), creating up to 8% of worldwide man-made emissions of this gas, of which 50% is from the chemical process and 40% from burning fuel.”
600 cubic meters is 785 cubic yards. A typical concrete truck carries 10 cubic yards with the usable concrete being a little less than that. This pour would take a minimum of 80 trucks. Think of all that diesel pollution. The horror....the horror...
Had many conversations about "free energy turbines" they usually get mad when you spit facts. Man hours, truck transportation, idle time, heavy machinery operation. Drilling for underground cable to incorporate it to the grid. Manufacturing the cable, delivery of cable, installation of cable. Then all of the same goes for the actual wind turbine itself. Maybe even more.
Then the blades have a limited lifespan and go straight to the landfill. What about that?
These feel-good "environmental" folks fail to see the whole picture. They only see skewed financial break even information. Not the whole environmental break even, or total cost break even, including continual maintenance and service.
They're a damn eyesore on our beautiful landscape, mess with the food chain and ecosystem, and make a ton of noise...
I just flew over the Columbia River gorge the other day (I hadn't seen it from the air for decades as I usually take an aisle seat). I was shocked at the vast numbers of turbines I saw and remembered that there wasn't a single one there back in the mid 90s when I used to drive through there a few times a year.
785 cubic yards X 400lbs of CO2 per yard concrete = 314,000lbs of CO2 released = 143 metric tons CO2. We haven't even got to all the emissions from producing and shipping the iron rebar.
I calculated that an equivalent CO2 for a power plant burning natural gas is 3 metric tons. Can that be right?
A wind turbine produces about 500 kW per year. I read somewhere that the lifetime of a wind turbine is about 30 years. I don't remember where. For a total lifetime energy production of 15 MW.
Natural Gas emits 0.2 kg of CO2 per kWh. 15,000 kW * 0.2 kgCO2/kW = 3 metric tons.
That can't be right. Tell me it isn't so. Just the concrete?
concrete curing releases CO2. that is what he is talking about.
It takes large kilns to produce cement powder to make concrete. You have to use natural gas or coal for those large kilns.
I'm not sure this math is correct. I was looking online and found the following (assuming a 2MW turbine running at 25% efficiency).
2 MW × 365 days × 24 hours × 25% = 4,380 MWh = 4,380,000 kWh
This would be for 1 year, so assuming 30 year lifespan that would be a total estimate of 131,400MWh.
If you take that number and multiply by the amount of co2 per kwh of natural gas, it would be 26.28M kg of co2. (If I did my math right)
The co2 released by the concrete alone wouldn't come close to the co2 emissions from natural gas for a comparable lifetime power output, but as there's a lot more co2 released in other aspects of wind turbine production (rebar, material transport, mining, manufacturing, assembly, maintenance, cables, etc) it's hard to say how efficient they really are. This would be something cool to look into.
Thanks. Yeah, that looks better.
Shit, all the energy it takes just to create the concrete, rebar, and other misc., items to create that foundation.
all that for a 2-3 MW capacity. That is what it is capable of, not what it produces, which is measured in MWh. That varies wildly with the conditions of course. They do not produce 2-3 MWh 24/7 all year, unlike the rated capacities of non-peaker CC and nuke plants.
Bud, you have not even touched on Rare Earth Minerals yet that are required for the turbine to function at its stated efficiency...dwarfs the concrete cost in devastation.
Not to mention the giant diesel guzzling machines used to strip the gravel in the concrete out of precious Mother Earth leaving giant raw scars on her beautiful surface. And look at all that steel. How many trainloads and trucks of iron ore have been ripped out of our mountains, trucked to a filthy smoke belching factory before being processed and then trucked out again?
Enough to change the magnetic poles of the Earth. Seriously, some of what is attributed to global warming is the overmining of the iron range changing the rotation of the Earth.
It’s not just that... The production of Portland cement is one the biggest sources of CO2 pollution. From Wikipedia:
“The cement industry is one of the two largest producers of carbon dioxide (CO2), creating up to 8% of worldwide man-made emissions of this gas, of which 50% is from the chemical process and 40% from burning fuel.”