Approve of this, but needs to he sooner. Even doctors state life begins at conception. So why does it seem that when it comes to unborn babies, everyone forgets that fact that life beings at conception? Once you conceive its a new life for someone.
Hopefully the Supreme Court will attempt to strike it down once it passes then that causes the Texans to become pissed off and secede, making many other states follow.
You ignore the supreme Court where they don't have jurisdiction. The supreme Court does not make legislation, they offer court opinions. The doctrine of the lesser magistrate and the way our country is founded allows you to completely ignore any ruling the supreme Court could have on the subject.
How many states ignored federal drug laws for years? Quite a few. How much more important is this? Infinitely.
Correct. I always muscled with this. Like, if we ALL really believed that life began at conception, we would be actively taking part in fighting against the murder of innocent lives. Aka, our reaction should be and would be the same if we knew they were going around various playgrounds and wiping out children. But we're not. And deep down, I feel like we intellectually are very hopeful that life begins at conception, but our hearts only really bounce at the heartbeat.
But I agree. Small steps are better than no steps. I think a MAJORITY would be able to agree with this, vs a full cut and dry...especially considering the direction it's going in other areas (being able to abort after being born, etc.). Take it from their getting rid of 2A handbook.
Exactly, there’s no way we could’ve had men in women’s restrooms if they hadn’t slowly chipped away at our values. We have to use the same strategy on them.
Murder of an unborn baby is the ultimate abdication of personal responsibility .. and that's just the passive end. Margaret Sanger had active motives for abortion - genocide based on race.
It's really no surprise that abortion and Margaret Sanger are loved by lefties.
Good luck. There are multiple generations of women that believe that not only should they not be held responsible for their actions, but they should be allowed to commit murder if they want to to get out from under those actions. Or, in more cases than women like to admit, lie to the guy that she's on BC to trap him with child support payments when he doesn't want a relationship.
Responsibility needs to be a two way street and I'm tired of one half getting to set the rules, and even outright lie, with no consequences for them but always consequences for the man. It takes two to tango and women are the ones that spread their legs.
Honestly I would be fine with that but in the rare cases of rape where it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and the mother's life is in jeopardy or there are genetic risks that would affect quality of life abortion should be on the table. Provided it's funded by the people seeking one
There is already acknowledged medical difference between a life-threatening pregnancy situation and a viable one. It would be insanely simple to write in an exception for molar and ectopic pregnancies into any abortion law.
It’s also very rare for a pregnancy to become life-threatening, beyond situations like that, without medical intervention being possible for the mother. Things like gestational diabetes or preeclampsia are diagnosable and very treatable.
Rape is awful, but it’s not the child’s fault. Nor are genetic abnormalities. If you have a baby with a fatal trisomy or other situation where they can’t live outside the womb, that is a tragedy. But it’s also worth noting that shit like, say, a brain cyst, that shows up on a twenty week ultrasound might not be there by week thirty. And early genetic testing is insanely inaccurate. I think the risks of aborting actually healthy babies in those situations are far too great to allow.
Rape - the baby is put to death for the crime, but not the rapist?
Mother's life in jeopardy - In America how common is this really? Is this just a strawman at this point?
Genetic risks that would affect quality of life - where do you draw the line here? Who gets to decide what quality of life means? One parent thinks a child with Downs Syndrome is better of dead and another doesn't. What else earns a baby a death sentence? What if that becomes skin color or sex?
Rape - the baby is put to death for the crime, but not the rapist?
You think I believe a rapist shouldn't be put to death if it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?
Mother's life in jeopardy - In America how common is this really? Is this just a strawman at this point?
https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-do-statistics-look-like-for-ectopic-pregnancy-2371730
1 in every 50 pregnancies is an ectopic pregnancy so not statistically significant but still a reasonable consideration, but are you really going to advocate for the life of a baby but not a mother who does not have a viable pregnancy (there is no fetus or life in this type of pregnancy) and may potentially die as a result?
Genetic risks that would affect quality of life - where do you draw the line here? Who gets to decide what quality of life means? One parent thinks a child with Downs Syndrome is better of dead and another doesn't. What else earns a baby a death sentence? What if that becomes skin color or sex?
The freedom to make that decision should be left between the doctor and the mother/father of the child not the State. As such those decisions should come with the best evidence to deduce that if at all possible. Also you are highlighting a slippery slope. Wouldn't put it past the democrats to use skin color or sex but at the same time (for the time being) the argument is arbitrary because those are protected classes. It's not the same as someone who will basically be on the Country's dole for a genetic defect.
This is often true, but not always. Some women are raped and impregnated. Some children are sexually abused and impregnated. Some women use birth control and it fails (even IUD's can fail; every year there are babies born with the IUD stuck on their body somewhere.). Women & girls who are raped / abused may not want to tell their abortion provider the truth, so they just say they want the abortion just because. But if there is an exception for rape/abuse, then everyone who wants an abortion will claim that (ie, the lazy ones).
Im fine with heartbeat. While i know many will disagree. As the lack of heartbeat is generally considered dead, the gaining 9f a heartbeat should be considered life.
Ehh with pacemakers being common, including research on using them in fetuses with heart issues, that's not really the case. Brain activity is just as easy to detect nowadays, and is a more accurate measure.
You haven't thought this through. Who's going to be detecting the heartbeat? People with a monetary incentive to abort children. The power to find that heartbeat is completely in the hands of the technician and if you know anything about ultrasounds that technician can purposely adjust settings and angles so they don't detect a heartbeat.
You can't expect people that murder babies to be honest can you?
So don't allow the abortion clinics to conduct the test. Don't allow anyone that is connected to someone that works in the abortion clinic to conduct the test.
Make it so that if it's found the abortion clinics are trying to screw with things to keep their abortion numbers up you hammer them into the ground until they suffer a "later term abortion" themselves. Cuckservatives need to find their spine, and the abortion issue is probably the only one that will get them to make noise while still being able to sit on their fat asses.
You say conservative should have a spine but you're talking about incrementally allowing the murder of unborn children as long as a heartbeat can't be found. You're the cuck here. Neither one of those things is the solution.
I'm for 100% criminalization as murder from the moment of conception with the punishment being the death penalty. It's a human life and it needs to be treated that way otherwise legislation is disproportionate and can be appealed
Unfortunately it happens everywhere; public schools, Evangelical churches, boy scouts, etc. I'm not dismissing nor excusing the Catholic church but let's not pretend that they are the only ones.
Don’t give a fuck. Ban them all together, all life begins at conception. Give the women and doctors who attempt to do the abortions the death penalty for genocide.
They're reasonable if the mothers life is at risk... But what's funny about that stance is in statistics it lies under the "supports abortion" selection
Why do we care about this abortion issue so much I honestly dont understand? Seriously, it would do the country better if lefties had LESS babies. Can you imagine the amount of welfare money we've saved by letting idiots abort their own commie kin? Not to mention more useful idiot voters. I seriously could care less.
Can you imagine the amount of welfare money we've saved by letting idiots abort their own commie kin?
You really don't understand the situation, at all, do you?
Let me explain it in the most simple terms I can. The amount of welfare money hasn't decreased with open access to abortions, it's increased because women have realized that they can get paid to have children they didn't want, either in welfare of child support. They could have aborted those children, on the taxpayer dime, but they chose not to because they realized those children mean a guaranteed check and other benefits even if she treats them like trash.
Abortions don't stop the welfare state. Enforcing responsibility does. When you don't get free money and other benefits for intentionally getting knocked up and you are required to take care of the child, and only you if it's shown you lied to the man to get pregnant, then the rate of single motherhood will drop off a cliff. Responsibility is a woman's kryptonite. Force it and they stop the shenanigans.
...said the person lucky enough not to have been aborted. Don’t worry; abortion is and continues to be the leading cause of death worldwide. 40 million lives every year. I happen to believe we will all be judged for allowing this to happen by almighty God but hey, think of all the welfare money we’re saving.
Maybe I wouldn't be a person if aborted. I'm me only because I'm me. I'm thankful to be raised in this body, in this time, in this country by my loving fam. I was raised. I don't remember being in utero. Is every sperm sacred? 2/3 of America are far more worried about the rights of those living here being infringed, than the theological nature of sentient life. We WILL forever lose if we focus on absolutist antiabortion position.
I don’t agree. I think abortion should be allowed until the start of the second trimester, and up until birth if there’s a real risk of delivering the baby. I don’t think someone should have to chose potential death to give birth to a baby just because of your personal views.
After the first trimester, an abortion has to be conducted surgically. That is, they still have to go in, and pull the baby out, through the woman’s vagina.
There are literally no conditions that would justify killing a baby in the third trimester; the mother still basically has to give birth at that point, so anything you’re trying to avoid there would be moot.
Name me one condition for a pregnant woman that is guaranteed to be fatal even with proper medical care.
I’m guessing you’ve never heard of a cesarean or c-section before, because that’s what would actually happen if it was needed.
It’s also extremely rare to need an abortion at that point. Unless the baby was going to be a still born or some other rare occurrences that a women’s life is in danger from giving birth.
I also never said it was a guaranteed death, so no I’m not going to give you an example where death is a 100% chance. That’s a straight up straw man argument.
C-sections are done all the time for many reasons. They’re usually only done for emergency reasons if something goes wrong during labor, or perhaps if a mother presents with a case severe preclampsia very, very suddenly. Typically, even for severe pregnancy-related health conditions, they’ll induce labor.
My point stand though; an abortion would do nothing to correct the problem in a situation where an emergency c-section is warranteed. The baby would still need to come out. Killing it before extracting it doesn’t save the mother in situations like this.
What I’m getting at here is that there are no medical conditions that can be documented late in pregnancy where an abortion fixes the situation. The life-threatening medical conditions that can develop (of which I don’t think you have any knowledge, which I why I asked the question) are controllable/addressable with proper prenatal care.
There are no conditions that we can know about ahead of time, late in pregnancy, where a woman’s life is in danger and can’t be saved by modern medicine. You can die from hemorrhage, for example, but there’s no way to predict that.
Pregnancy terminations for life of the mother tend to happen in early pregnancy. Again, that would be something like an ectopic pregnancy; these pregnancies are typically non-viable anyway. And BTW, even the Catholic Church recognizes those as valid and not sinful, if the primary purpose isn’t killing the child. Exceptions for situations like those would be appropriate and easy to include in abortion bans.
Then close your fucking legs. It’s that simple. You want to murder and genocide children, then you get murdered.
I don’t care if someone got raped. A child shouldn’t be murdered because someone got raped.
And if someone’s life is in danger if they deliver a baby, then do a c-section. I don’t give two fucks for the whores who decide to use abortion as birth control, the ones who encourage murder, like you.
You’re actually fucked in the head holy shit. Your crazy religious views can stay in your own fucked up head, don’t push your fantasy story onto me and other people.
Calling me worse then hitler or mao because I don’t want to see women carrying the baby of their rapist or women dying while giving birth. Wow such a terrible thing, you lunatic
Who’s torturing and murdering babies? More people do not side with you sick fucks who think I women should have to give birth to the baby of their rapist.
Keep your fantasy stories to yourself and stop trying to dictate other people’s lives. Compromising is part of being an adult, you’ll maybe get there one day
So you want a woman to carry baby full term if she was raped? That 9 month reminder of her rape probably won't help her mental health any. And when I say "prooobably", I meant "definitely".
We have different categories for murder (First-degree, Second-degree, Manslaughter) depending upon the severity of the situation. If a rape results in a pregnancy, the rapist should be charged with a higher crime too.
Actually abortion adds to the woman's long term trauma. Interviews of rape victims who made either choice bear out that having a baby and either keeping it or putting it up for adoption was a factor in psychological healing. Pregnancy is temporary, abortion is forever. Also no one here is discussing the fact abortion is a blind procedure that often causes physical damage, infection and conditions like incompetent cervix that can make future wanted pregnancies unsustainable. The coverups of the damage hack doctors (good doctors do not participate in this practice) do to women is hidden because of "privacy laws."
If a woman it's going to hire a hitman to kill her unborn baby, maybe she deserves to have permanent damage done to her body as a consequence of the murder. I'm more concerned about the innocent victims than the murderer. It's great if a woman repents for having her baby killed, but there are consequences to sin. Just like King David had consequences for the murder he had committed.
You're calling us "worse than Hitler" for our political views. I'm curious to see what kind of mental gymnastics you will perform to weasel your way out of this bullshit.
If you got raped, you don't just sit there and wait anyways. You should be actively going to the doctors for testing and shit. Then they can do it then before anything happens.
Anyways, now you're being very stupid with it. Had me until you want to force women raped to have the children. No fucking thanks weirdo.
You are clueless about the horrors of Hell. Why don't you think about the gravity of human suffering before wishing that upon your fellow patriots? Don't be so narrow-minded with your judgments, you're hurting this movement with your hatred.
You are the reason reasonable conservative moderates with never vote with us and your rhetoric is allowing the murder of more innocent lives to continue because your pride will always get in the way. Congrats on holding the party back.
You have two upvotes (one is mine, one has to be yours) and two downvotes. You are 100% absolutely spot on about this religious craziness being the sole reason reasonable people avoid the Republican party, and I can't understand why more people don't agree with you on that.
abortion with rape causes two victims. Plain and simple. And it's the excuse for widespread abortion even though only 3 to 4 percent of all rapes result in pregnancy.
What the hell are you going to do with 1 Million babies born to absolutely poor, uninteligent, often crime or drug afflicted single parents? And another million undocumented anchor babies? Our current demographics, student teacher ratio, and crime statistics would be wrecked with a cumulative 30 million more people from a single socioeconomic class.
Real talk, who is going to foot the bill on not only maternity care and labor, but welfare, education, and a multitude of other expenses of children born to parents who don't even want them?
End welfare, revive Mandatory Conscription, send them to Space to actually progress humanity by forming Lunar and Mars colonies before the Chinese do.....Killing humans in never a solution. This is a lefty talking point.
Conscription has many forms. The Civilian Conservation Corps built roads and bridges. Public services. Make them build rockets. Drafted public service does not at all just mean slapping a gun in their hands and sending them to die.
Certainly, a fair point. But I stand by a proposed policy of Mandatory Universal Conscription service of some kind. It's the only way we could ever hope to force some patriotism back into our lost youth. The must be forced to understand they DO have skin in the game.
You're stuck on War. I'm not at all talking about war propagandizing. I'm saying, "Your 2 year service will be in cleaning up highways and taking care of some old people in a housing facility." National Conscription Service does not have to be only military.
Intelligence is genetic. The kids that are produced are going to be barely able to do manual labor, let alone go to space. You religious nuts really like to ignore genetics; people are not interchangeable cogs, and "culture" is the not the primary driver of success.
Mostly*, fixed that for you. Like, between 60 and 90% based on twin studies alone. In addition, Harvard has developed a genetic test that is predictive of IQ, albeit a bit weak currently. As we gain more understanding of what other genes play a role in neural development, that test will become much stronger. I'd also like to point out measurable differences in brain architecture that exist between groups of people, including between racial and ethnic groups. For example, Africans have fewer convolutions in their cortex, which indicates less processing power.
What does IQ have to do with human worth? Why are we deciding who to keep and who to kill based on a rough and unreliable measurement of intelligence?
I'm going to take a shot in the dark: You judge your own worth based on your intelligence. You think that because you're smarter than everyone else that you deserve to live more than them.
In an apocalypse scenario, I'd recruit from the ghetto before I picked your egghead ass. You'd be calculating the trajectory of a bullet before it passes through your brain and wipes out all your progress.
Sure, intelligence is genetic. but the type of intelligence measured by IQ is not predictive of success in society. Those who study and work hard will progress humanity more than those born to high IQ parents who don't. So in a sense, "culture" is the primary driver of success. Not sure where this idea that people's impact on society are decided by their DNA comes from. This goes against the conservative tenet of self-efficacy-- that you can better yourself and your situation with hard work.
That's not true at all... IQ is actually the biggest predictor of success, across all measures, though it's technically a correlation as causal links are hard to prove in this area. There are plenty of studies showing this to varying degrees, but if you're a Jordan Peterson fan, here is one of the lectures from one of his university classes on the subject https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSo5v5t4OQM.
Does everyone have to be some Nobel laureate doctor President who cured cancer to be successful? Certainly not. Some people can, and will, and have, gone their whole lives without doing anything that we might consider "successful". But they still contribute to society. They help the gears turn. In turn, society offers them little pleasures, which keep them occupied. Some people are not destined for greatness. Some are not destined for even mediocrity. But with the right systems in place (we're certainly a ways away from this being true, but baby steps here), every single human being can find purpose, contribute something of value to the sum of humanity, and enjoy their lives on Earth.
That guy is really well-spoken. But in the end what he said doesn't really interact with what I think-- that success in life depends greatly on the work you put in.
Now if he suggests that higher IQ people are predisposed to putting in that work, then maybe Peterson and I are in agreement. Although I don't see how having drive and ambition could be connected to IQ, specifically because the way IQ is measured doesn't have any reference to work ethic, and psychometricians have taken great care to try and isolate their number to just natural cognitive ability.
But if we make the reasonable conclusion that IQ is independent of work ethic, the question becomes does work ethic matter at all? I'd say yes. Those who study hard in university to develop practical skills that they can apply to better society I deem successful, irrespective of what metrics about jobs or grades Peterson uses. That's sidestepping the fact that there are many definitions of success. The link between work ethic and success is much more clear than the correlations between IQ and success shown in longitudinal studies, which have many problems of their own.
Moreover, his whole talk controls for agreeableness, sociability, and many other factors which can contribute to success. While this is great for isolated studies about soundness of IQ, this is not great for studies about prediction of success of individuals. I think its dangerous to reduce people's ability to succeed to IQ studies, and ignore other factors. Let's not doom lower IQ people to "manual labor" over their IQ; I think we will agree it's an oversimplification.
Thanks for the link, pede. Writing this out has helped me organize my $0.02 on the subject.
Newt tried to talk about that, back during his Republican Revolution. He made a comment about orphanages for the children born because of no abortion, and the left attacked him like he was proposing labor factories for children, like in Oliver Twist.
Libs will not listen to anything that helps avoid the need for abortion. Hell, they won't even tell young women who have babies to find love because of abusive parents to not become a single parent at 17. That would require morals, and we know how few libs have.
The solution is a moral society. We're the furthest away from that in the entire history of the USA, and now that it's post-America, we'll go even further adrift.
I ALWAYS agreed with Newt on that but no one has the guts to do what's necessary
EIther as a state create a true safety net for unwanted children or create an adoption system where prospective adopters pay for maternity care, labor, etc
Instead we have rich white, unfertile parents spending 100-500k on ivf...sickening
I don't disagree either. I have some personal knowledge of this, and the problems are even worse after a child is taken into custody by the state, away from unfit parents and women who give their children up at birth. I know a couple who couldn't have kids - she was unable. So they looked into adoption. They spent years applying and being rejected, even though they were a perfect couple - liberal, he made enough she didn't have to work, very educated, intelligent, healthy, nice home, etc. Even as liberals, they're both really nice, pleasant people.
But they were told don't even THINK about a white baby, and they were turned down even for crack babies. They had to leave the country and bribe a South American government to get a little baby girl who was orphaned. The left has the foster/adoption industry on lockdown. Kids spend their entire lives in foster care (and are horrifically abused), with no hope of adoption. It's beyond broken, and insane.
And yes, I think child trafficking is involved. I'd bet quite a few blonde babies have ended up in the Middle East, locked away in harems.
Even when famous people with millions to spend have to go overseas to adopt their virtue signalling children, you know there's a problem. And, as usual, it's liberals with their fucked up brains.
They aren't "free", they're mostly paid for by private donations. Federal money doesn't really touch that part of the business, despite the propaganda that it does. And, they do make the women pay a nominal fee (like 50 to 200 dollars) for the procedure as well.
Looking at it purely scientifically, here's the fact of the matter:
Before conception, you just have a sperm and an egg, and at the moment of conception, you still have a sperm and an egg. The material doesn't change, but the positioning of it does. The blastocyte (a collection of stem cells that forms the foundation of the human body) forms a couple of days after conception. Before then, the sperm could exit the egg, leaving you right where you started.
This fact is contrary to one key characteristic of humans: You cannot revert back to the sperm and egg you came from. At some point after conception, the process of fertilization becomes irreversible. The sperm and the egg merge into one cell and cannot be separated without fundamentally altering the material at hand. The scientific argument for when human life begins may be made no earlier than this point.
Exactly, Abbott the pussy shouldn't be trusted. He still has a state wide mask mandate. What the absolute fuck. And I am starting to see more and more liberals in Texas slapping on two fucking masks. Idiots.
Ta this rate Texas will become another NY. Austin is already Austin New York. It is no longer Texas. Houston is Houston Nigeria & Dallas is Dallas Mexico. I might have to move to South Dakota. A great governor there.
I agree, if wheels wants to be president of this republic he needs to pull his head out of the his wheel spokes and start listening to the people outside of Waterloo and church.
These extreme bills are designed to fail, and RINOs know it. Wake the fuck up. If they were really playing for us they would pass a huge omnibill giving free birth control to all, and hide abortion defunding and first trimester legislation in the middle like the Dems do. We need a new party.
Personally, I think brain formation/activity is a good point to argue too, but this is the correct way forward. The "starts at conception" is not a defensible position scientifically, and we really need to stop listening to left and right wind religious nut jobs.
This is right. We have a scientific defense. A zygote will become a full grown human under normal conditions. A sperm or an egg itself will not. Organ activity is hard to defend because anyone in the hospital in a coma or on a respirator could be considered to not be alive.
In my country abortion is banned unless the mother's live is in danger or if a woman was raped. The propaganda is crazy our women are being paid from german sources to constantly protest this everywhere. Also, we have a flow of immigrants from. Ukraine and it's crazy to me that ukrainian women openly talk about abortion just because they're positively surprised that it's illegal in my country. Crazy shit, I feel like these ukrainian women have very similar views to our men, like they belong here, meanwhile our women are like from a different planet. The point of this post is that in my opinion they use abortion as a tool to divide a nation not only by left and right but also to divide the left and the right. I know it's probably nothing that hasn't been discovered yet but last year it directly affected me and it's way more scary than everyone think. Why would a sane woman want a right to kill her baby.
Because genetic code doesn't equate to life. Brain activity is when a human life starts, not before, and is a defensible position on the liberal and conservative side of things (unless you're one of the "life begins at conception" fags).
Yes, it should be at conception. No, using "when their genetic code first exists" is a stupid argument and is going to get you laughed out of the room.
This is how I try to talk to people who present these types of things :
Have you known many turnips that have gone through their early development and ended up as a human child? Probably not, I assume.
However, in 100 percent of cases, the "entity" that begins its life cycle at conception following the insemination of a human female's egg, will turn out to be a human being. No woman has ever given birth to a turnip, or an otter or a birch tree.
We place (rightly so) a vastly higher value on the life of one unique human being OVER that of one individual turnip.
So saying that a turnip has DNA, ergo you must be arguing that anything with DNA must be protected is intellectually dishonest.
The tiny little two celled "entity" that is only seconds old inside a woman's womb IS human, and it will continue to be human. Whether it lives to be 100, or if it dies before it is able to divide its two cells into four cells. It was and is human.
We've established that humans (SHOULD be) valued an order of magnitude more important and worthy of life than a turnip, yes?
So that holds true whether the human is in the first moment of existence or the final minutes of it.
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations. Psalm 139:13-16
Bless Governor Abbott and may many more Governors join him in this battle for human life. The children are our future and perhaps we can change things to help them not become brainwashed and know the history of our nation and the history of the Bible. Amen.
Abortion is the biggest pandemic in human history. Thanks to abortion, the common and woman are made murderers so easily they blend in among us and we don't even know.
The Nazis killed 11 million of their innocent behind closed doors and we still talk about it. Here we've killed 62+ million out in the open and have parades, May God have mercy on us!
My church runs EndAbortionNow.com and push es for the criminalization of abortion and I can tell you that this legislation is going to be pretty damn useless.
Here's why....
This type of legislation is counting on the person doing the ultrasound to not only detect the heartbeat but actually be honest about it. Unless you have a independent third-party agency doing the ultrasounds that are not profiting off the abortion then the technician is simply going to adjust the machine and the angle where they don't find a heartbeat.
You can't trust organizations that murder babies for profit to be honest.
We need to outlaw all abortion from the moment of conception.
AND Texas should revoke the medical license of any doctor performing a heartbeat abortion. When SCOTUS rules this Unconstitutional, governor Bbott and Texas should just simply say go fuck yourselves.
Make abortion a strict liability tort and prohibit liability/malpractice insurance operating in the state from covering it. Technically still legal, respects tenuous "right to privacy" precedent, but no doctor will touch it.
Another approach is to simultaneously attack the NFA and tax rights. Place onerous taxes on Plan B, abortion clinics, the procedures themselves, high speed printing presses, broadband internet. See how loud clown world will honk.
Ten years ago I thought we were never going to be able to stop this abortion train the our politicians were so bent on driving forward. It’s wonderful to see a state taking steps back in the right direction to not only preserve human life but also keep our tax dollars from going towards abortion (planned parenthood). I visible most of us agree that life begins at conception but the amount of lives this will save is a material impact on our next generation. Keep praying for repentance and revival and make your voices heard. We the people are the majority and we cannot afford to sit by and watch our values and beliefs be stripped away as rome burns.
The human heart starts beating at 22 days. Most countries have the cut off at ten weeks.
The abortion issue has long been a red herring argument which you realize once you look at the statistics of when women opt for abortion which is generally a few weeks before the ten weeks mark, and then the abortion rate takes a cliff dive beyond that point.
So again to be clear, the abortion argument is a red herring issue that is heavily politicized to create a voting bloc out of people who are ignorant of the details which ironically is largely young women.
And then there is more unpleasantness about this issue to consider. As long as a welfare state exists, a ban on abortions is a terrible idea. Our real problem for our society is single mother house holds. It is from them where a tremendous amount of dysfunction and crime comes from.
I agree that abortions are far from desirable but there are issues that have to be addressed to have competence around this debate.
Well, if you remove abortion from options, guys would also have to be more careful or get stuck with DNA tests and paternity suits for 18 years. Maybe they would be more careful too if they couldn't just throw a few hundred dollars at a girl and tell her to go take care of it. Generations existed before 1973 where people tried to avoid pregnancy or got married first. Abortion reduced people to barnyard animal mentality levels.
Now would be a good time to invest in abortion tourism businesses. Build a chain of abortion resorts across the border in Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Louisiana, and Texas women can book weekend abortion spa packages. Kill their baby, then relax and recover the next couple of days with massages, seaweed wraps, facials, mani-petis, and other life affirming services, so they can recover and really savor the power they had to kill their own baby.
I see an opportunity here. Best part: It will be making money off of predominantly liberal women, and it will just be that many fewer unwanted, uncared for liberals that will never have the chance to grow up and be shaped into communist agitators.
If the left wants to do something right for a change they can start working on helping to end unwanted pregnancy. This means family values as much as contraceptive technology. Which is why they won't, they refuse to accept anything short of hedonism.
They would rather send billions of dollars from the poor and working folk of the US to the wealthy overseas than invest in contraceptive research.
I am uncertain on how I would solve this issue myself, and I keep an open mind. One thing I am certain of: if abortion was banned with no recourse, the left would be force to address unwanted pregnancy.
So, maybe, instead of killing the unborn we could advance male contraception.
I hate the left. They're so smug about things they do nothing to help with. So sick of them.
There is an injectable male contraceptive in the works called vasagel, but of course no major company wants to fund the research, and the FDA is stonewalling it like always.
Letting men protect themselves from baby traps? No, no, no, no, no. Only women are allowed to get away from responsibility, men must have it imposed on them!
The plow horses are not allowed to leave the plantation!
Yes. I am aware of this and other major roadblocks in stopping abortion. I hate the left passionately because of this. I support a ban on abortion if anything to get them to wake the fuck up and start fixing this problem with us. They deserve nothing less than that and frankly, we all deserve a better world together.
I am sick and tired of this wedge issue, and it is a wedge issue, being used as a weapon against the American people.
We can solve most of the problem by focusing 99% of the energy we all have (left, right, or whatever) on non-invasive, healthy contraception.
The remaining 1% of our energy should be geared towards debating life at conception and teenage pregancy.
That's it.
Male contraception that would eliminate the need for hormone altering "birth control" pills could nearly end unwanted pregnancies. If it was proven viable 99.9995%.
They need to find a way to limit the sale of fetal tissue. We can’t continue to incentivize clinics to push for abortions. Keeping a baby on life support to harvest organs days later is fucked up.
Not 100% behind this, as there can be situations that develop after that point in the pregnancy that could lead to the death of either or both the mother and the child. A blanket ban doesn't address that.
However, something needs to be done about these jackasses using abortion as contraception. Maybe medical exemptions? Definitely needs to be looked at and discussed (and not people just shouting slogans at each other).
Approve of this, but needs to he sooner. Even doctors state life begins at conception. So why does it seem that when it comes to unborn babies, everyone forgets that fact that life beings at conception? Once you conceive its a new life for someone.
Maybe if we take baby steps in one direction it'll workout better?
Hopefully the Supreme Court will attempt to strike it down once it passes then that causes the Texans to become pissed off and secede, making many other states follow.
Breakdown of what happens in Texas secedes
If we give Detroit to Canada, can Michigan join?
Ruby the rigger to become their mayor!
Hope Weld County goes with TX and WY. We want nothing to do with Denver.
You ignore the supreme Court where they don't have jurisdiction. The supreme Court does not make legislation, they offer court opinions. The doctrine of the lesser magistrate and the way our country is founded allows you to completely ignore any ruling the supreme Court could have on the subject.
How many states ignored federal drug laws for years? Quite a few. How much more important is this? Infinitely.
States don’t have to secede. Just declare independence, stop taking federal money, and stop paying federal taxes.
What's the difference between what you suggest and secession? A formal declaration? Don't say you're wrong, just don't see the difference.
There isn't a difference, not sure why people mention it like there is.
That’s called secession dumb ass.
Correct. I always muscled with this. Like, if we ALL really believed that life began at conception, we would be actively taking part in fighting against the murder of innocent lives. Aka, our reaction should be and would be the same if we knew they were going around various playgrounds and wiping out children. But we're not. And deep down, I feel like we intellectually are very hopeful that life begins at conception, but our hearts only really bounce at the heartbeat.
But I agree. Small steps are better than no steps. I think a MAJORITY would be able to agree with this, vs a full cut and dry...especially considering the direction it's going in other areas (being able to abort after being born, etc.). Take it from their getting rid of 2A handbook.
Sorta like what the left did to make where we are now “acceptable”
Exactly, there’s no way we could’ve had men in women’s restrooms if they hadn’t slowly chipped away at our values. We have to use the same strategy on them.
"baby steps"
You couldn't resist the pun could you?
:)
Because scotus already unconstitutionally made abortion a right.
Convenience, and denial. Abortion is birth control for lazy people who won't use birth control, or do things to avoid pregnancy. Like abstinence.
Murder of an unborn baby is the ultimate abdication of personal responsibility .. and that's just the passive end. Margaret Sanger had active motives for abortion - genocide based on race.
It's really no surprise that abortion and Margaret Sanger are loved by lefties.
Good luck. There are multiple generations of women that believe that not only should they not be held responsible for their actions, but they should be allowed to commit murder if they want to to get out from under those actions. Or, in more cases than women like to admit, lie to the guy that she's on BC to trap him with child support payments when he doesn't want a relationship.
Responsibility needs to be a two way street and I'm tired of one half getting to set the rules, and even outright lie, with no consequences for them but always consequences for the man. It takes two to tango and women are the ones that spread their legs.
Well, we have the ultimate power: not having sex with a woman we don't want to have a child with.
Sadly, men who use power are a very small minority.
(I'm no angel, I had a pretty healthy sex live earlier in my life. But I see the errors of my ways back then. And luckily, go out unscathed.)
Honestly I would be fine with that but in the rare cases of rape where it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and the mother's life is in jeopardy or there are genetic risks that would affect quality of life abortion should be on the table. Provided it's funded by the people seeking one
There is already acknowledged medical difference between a life-threatening pregnancy situation and a viable one. It would be insanely simple to write in an exception for molar and ectopic pregnancies into any abortion law.
It’s also very rare for a pregnancy to become life-threatening, beyond situations like that, without medical intervention being possible for the mother. Things like gestational diabetes or preeclampsia are diagnosable and very treatable.
Rape is awful, but it’s not the child’s fault. Nor are genetic abnormalities. If you have a baby with a fatal trisomy or other situation where they can’t live outside the womb, that is a tragedy. But it’s also worth noting that shit like, say, a brain cyst, that shows up on a twenty week ultrasound might not be there by week thirty. And early genetic testing is insanely inaccurate. I think the risks of aborting actually healthy babies in those situations are far too great to allow.
Doctors can deliver the child early and give him/her a chance in the NICU.
Ding, ding! Winner.
I don't disagree at all. I dislike abortion, but it has a real medical basis for existing. But using it as birth control is repugnant.
Rape - the baby is put to death for the crime, but not the rapist?
Mother's life in jeopardy - In America how common is this really? Is this just a strawman at this point?
Genetic risks that would affect quality of life - where do you draw the line here? Who gets to decide what quality of life means? One parent thinks a child with Downs Syndrome is better of dead and another doesn't. What else earns a baby a death sentence? What if that becomes skin color or sex?
Rape - the baby is put to death for the crime, but not the rapist? You think I believe a rapist shouldn't be put to death if it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? Mother's life in jeopardy - In America how common is this really? Is this just a strawman at this point? https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-do-statistics-look-like-for-ectopic-pregnancy-2371730 1 in every 50 pregnancies is an ectopic pregnancy so not statistically significant but still a reasonable consideration, but are you really going to advocate for the life of a baby but not a mother who does not have a viable pregnancy (there is no fetus or life in this type of pregnancy) and may potentially die as a result? Genetic risks that would affect quality of life - where do you draw the line here? Who gets to decide what quality of life means? One parent thinks a child with Downs Syndrome is better of dead and another doesn't. What else earns a baby a death sentence? What if that becomes skin color or sex? The freedom to make that decision should be left between the doctor and the mother/father of the child not the State. As such those decisions should come with the best evidence to deduce that if at all possible. Also you are highlighting a slippery slope. Wouldn't put it past the democrats to use skin color or sex but at the same time (for the time being) the argument is arbitrary because those are protected classes. It's not the same as someone who will basically be on the Country's dole for a genetic defect.
This is often true, but not always. Some women are raped and impregnated. Some children are sexually abused and impregnated. Some women use birth control and it fails (even IUD's can fail; every year there are babies born with the IUD stuck on their body somewhere.). Women & girls who are raped / abused may not want to tell their abortion provider the truth, so they just say they want the abortion just because. But if there is an exception for rape/abuse, then everyone who wants an abortion will claim that (ie, the lazy ones).
Im fine with heartbeat. While i know many will disagree. As the lack of heartbeat is generally considered dead, the gaining 9f a heartbeat should be considered life.
Easy to follow, easy to argue, easy to detect.
Unique DNA within moments of conception
a human person
Ehh with pacemakers being common, including research on using them in fetuses with heart issues, that's not really the case. Brain activity is just as easy to detect nowadays, and is a more accurate measure.
Brain activity? Half of congress would be eligible for abortion!
Go on...
You haven't thought this through. Who's going to be detecting the heartbeat? People with a monetary incentive to abort children. The power to find that heartbeat is completely in the hands of the technician and if you know anything about ultrasounds that technician can purposely adjust settings and angles so they don't detect a heartbeat.
You can't expect people that murder babies to be honest can you?
So don't allow the abortion clinics to conduct the test. Don't allow anyone that is connected to someone that works in the abortion clinic to conduct the test.
Make it so that if it's found the abortion clinics are trying to screw with things to keep their abortion numbers up you hammer them into the ground until they suffer a "later term abortion" themselves. Cuckservatives need to find their spine, and the abortion issue is probably the only one that will get them to make noise while still being able to sit on their fat asses.
You say conservative should have a spine but you're talking about incrementally allowing the murder of unborn children as long as a heartbeat can't be found. You're the cuck here. Neither one of those things is the solution. I'm for 100% criminalization as murder from the moment of conception with the punishment being the death penalty. It's a human life and it needs to be treated that way otherwise legislation is disproportionate and can be appealed
www EndAbortionNow.com
The catholic bishops will denounce this as divisive or some horseshit
Fixed
Unfortunately it happens everywhere; public schools, Evangelical churches, boy scouts, etc. I'm not dismissing nor excusing the Catholic church but let's not pretend that they are the only ones.
Don’t give a fuck. Ban them all together, all life begins at conception. Give the women and doctors who attempt to do the abortions the death penalty for genocide.
But then how will democrats finally get rid of black pipo
They're reasonable if the mothers life is at risk... But what's funny about that stance is in statistics it lies under the "supports abortion" selection
Why do we care about this abortion issue so much I honestly dont understand? Seriously, it would do the country better if lefties had LESS babies. Can you imagine the amount of welfare money we've saved by letting idiots abort their own commie kin? Not to mention more useful idiot voters. I seriously could care less.
You really don't understand the situation, at all, do you?
Let me explain it in the most simple terms I can. The amount of welfare money hasn't decreased with open access to abortions, it's increased because women have realized that they can get paid to have children they didn't want, either in welfare of child support. They could have aborted those children, on the taxpayer dime, but they chose not to because they realized those children mean a guaranteed check and other benefits even if she treats them like trash.
Abortions don't stop the welfare state. Enforcing responsibility does. When you don't get free money and other benefits for intentionally getting knocked up and you are required to take care of the child, and only you if it's shown you lied to the man to get pregnant, then the rate of single motherhood will drop off a cliff. Responsibility is a woman's kryptonite. Force it and they stop the shenanigans.
...said the person lucky enough not to have been aborted. Don’t worry; abortion is and continues to be the leading cause of death worldwide. 40 million lives every year. I happen to believe we will all be judged for allowing this to happen by almighty God but hey, think of all the welfare money we’re saving.
Would you be okay to live in a communist shithole where abortion is banned? Who gives a shit.
Maybe I wouldn't be a person if aborted. I'm me only because I'm me. I'm thankful to be raised in this body, in this time, in this country by my loving fam. I was raised. I don't remember being in utero. Is every sperm sacred? 2/3 of America are far more worried about the rights of those living here being infringed, than the theological nature of sentient life. We WILL forever lose if we focus on absolutist antiabortion position.
I don’t agree. I think abortion should be allowed until the start of the second trimester, and up until birth if there’s a real risk of delivering the baby. I don’t think someone should have to chose potential death to give birth to a baby just because of your personal views.
After the first trimester, an abortion has to be conducted surgically. That is, they still have to go in, and pull the baby out, through the woman’s vagina.
There are literally no conditions that would justify killing a baby in the third trimester; the mother still basically has to give birth at that point, so anything you’re trying to avoid there would be moot.
Name me one condition for a pregnant woman that is guaranteed to be fatal even with proper medical care.
I’m guessing you’ve never heard of a cesarean or c-section before, because that’s what would actually happen if it was needed.
It’s also extremely rare to need an abortion at that point. Unless the baby was going to be a still born or some other rare occurrences that a women’s life is in danger from giving birth.
I also never said it was a guaranteed death, so no I’m not going to give you an example where death is a 100% chance. That’s a straight up straw man argument.
C-sections are done all the time for many reasons. They’re usually only done for emergency reasons if something goes wrong during labor, or perhaps if a mother presents with a case severe preclampsia very, very suddenly. Typically, even for severe pregnancy-related health conditions, they’ll induce labor.
My point stand though; an abortion would do nothing to correct the problem in a situation where an emergency c-section is warranteed. The baby would still need to come out. Killing it before extracting it doesn’t save the mother in situations like this.
What I’m getting at here is that there are no medical conditions that can be documented late in pregnancy where an abortion fixes the situation. The life-threatening medical conditions that can develop (of which I don’t think you have any knowledge, which I why I asked the question) are controllable/addressable with proper prenatal care.
There are no conditions that we can know about ahead of time, late in pregnancy, where a woman’s life is in danger and can’t be saved by modern medicine. You can die from hemorrhage, for example, but there’s no way to predict that.
Pregnancy terminations for life of the mother tend to happen in early pregnancy. Again, that would be something like an ectopic pregnancy; these pregnancies are typically non-viable anyway. And BTW, even the Catholic Church recognizes those as valid and not sinful, if the primary purpose isn’t killing the child. Exceptions for situations like those would be appropriate and easy to include in abortion bans.
Then close your fucking legs. It’s that simple. You want to murder and genocide children, then you get murdered.
I don’t care if someone got raped. A child shouldn’t be murdered because someone got raped.
And if someone’s life is in danger if they deliver a baby, then do a c-section. I don’t give two fucks for the whores who decide to use abortion as birth control, the ones who encourage murder, like you.
You’re worse than Hitler and Zedong.
You’re actually fucked in the head holy shit. Your crazy religious views can stay in your own fucked up head, don’t push your fantasy story onto me and other people.
Calling me worse then hitler or mao because I don’t want to see women carrying the baby of their rapist or women dying while giving birth. Wow such a terrible thing, you lunatic
Not worse, but morally the same.
You’re just as bad as the leftists retards on Reddit lol.
Comparing me to Hitler and Mao because I don’t want women being forced to give birth to their rapists child.
You’re fucking right on par with some middle eastern countries. You guys fit in more with them then you do with the rational people here
Well, are you bothered we are posting out you like to torture and murder babies?
It’s true and I bet more here side with me that you, baby torture and murderer. Sick fuck.
Funny, I doubt you’d appreciate being tortured and murdered, but you have no problem doing it to other people.
Last I checked. The people in the Middle East like torture and murder, so you have more in common than I do.
Who’s torturing and murdering babies? More people do not side with you sick fucks who think I women should have to give birth to the baby of their rapist.
Keep your fantasy stories to yourself and stop trying to dictate other people’s lives. Compromising is part of being an adult, you’ll maybe get there one day
So you want a woman to carry baby full term if she was raped? That 9 month reminder of her rape probably won't help her mental health any. And when I say "prooobably", I meant "definitely".
And being responsible for the murder of an innocent human being is supposed to be good for mental health?
I think you've been brainwashed.
The rapist is fully responsible for the murder as well as the rape itself.
We have different categories for murder (First-degree, Second-degree, Manslaughter) depending upon the severity of the situation. If a rape results in a pregnancy, the rapist should be charged with a higher crime too.
Actually abortion adds to the woman's long term trauma. Interviews of rape victims who made either choice bear out that having a baby and either keeping it or putting it up for adoption was a factor in psychological healing. Pregnancy is temporary, abortion is forever. Also no one here is discussing the fact abortion is a blind procedure that often causes physical damage, infection and conditions like incompetent cervix that can make future wanted pregnancies unsustainable. The coverups of the damage hack doctors (good doctors do not participate in this practice) do to women is hidden because of "privacy laws."
If a woman it's going to hire a hitman to kill her unborn baby, maybe she deserves to have permanent damage done to her body as a consequence of the murder. I'm more concerned about the innocent victims than the murderer. It's great if a woman repents for having her baby killed, but there are consequences to sin. Just like King David had consequences for the murder he had committed.
I always told my offspring: God always forgives, people sometimes, nature... never.
All life is precious.
I don’t care. Not going to genocide children because someone was raped you neocon faggot.
Genocide? Faggot? You sound like an overdramatic Lefty. Be better.
I sound like a lefty? Have you no self awareness. Fucking retards.
You're calling us "worse than Hitler" for our political views. I'm curious to see what kind of mental gymnastics you will perform to weasel your way out of this bullshit.
Aww. Upset about the downvotes? Definitely a Leftist.
If you got raped, you don't just sit there and wait anyways. You should be actively going to the doctors for testing and shit. Then they can do it then before anything happens.
Anyways, now you're being very stupid with it. Had me until you want to force women raped to have the children. No fucking thanks weirdo.
Oh shut the fuck up with your holier than thou attitude. Honestly people like you deserve a bullet and a shallow grave.
A Hitler comparison, really? You know the argument has no bearing as soon as that is thrown on the table.
Hitler killed 6-11 million Jews, abortions have killed much more than that you neocon faggot simp. Burn in hell retard.
You are clueless about the horrors of Hell. Why don't you think about the gravity of human suffering before wishing that upon your fellow patriots? Don't be so narrow-minded with your judgments, you're hurting this movement with your hatred.
Your no patriot, you are a whore.
Funny, it looks like you've calmed down now.
6-11 million lmfao
What’s so funny?
You are the reason reasonable conservative moderates with never vote with us and your rhetoric is allowing the murder of more innocent lives to continue because your pride will always get in the way. Congrats on holding the party back.
You have two upvotes (one is mine, one has to be yours) and two downvotes. You are 100% absolutely spot on about this religious craziness being the sole reason reasonable people avoid the Republican party, and I can't understand why more people don't agree with you on that.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people.
abortion with rape causes two victims. Plain and simple. And it's the excuse for widespread abortion even though only 3 to 4 percent of all rapes result in pregnancy.
What the hell are you going to do with 1 Million babies born to absolutely poor, uninteligent, often crime or drug afflicted single parents? And another million undocumented anchor babies? Our current demographics, student teacher ratio, and crime statistics would be wrecked with a cumulative 30 million more people from a single socioeconomic class.
Real talk, who is going to foot the bill on not only maternity care and labor, but welfare, education, and a multitude of other expenses of children born to parents who don't even want them?
End welfare, revive Mandatory Conscription, send them to Space to actually progress humanity by forming Lunar and Mars colonies before the Chinese do.....Killing humans in never a solution. This is a lefty talking point.
BECAUSE THAT WORKED SO WELL IN VIETNAM!
WAR SOLVES EVERYTHING!
Why Cognitive Inequality Matters
Conscription has many forms. The Civilian Conservation Corps built roads and bridges. Public services. Make them build rockets. Drafted public service does not at all just mean slapping a gun in their hands and sending them to die.
Because the government is so honest and can never be corrupted to use people for devious things...
Certainly, a fair point. But I stand by a proposed policy of Mandatory Universal Conscription service of some kind. It's the only way we could ever hope to force some patriotism back into our lost youth. The must be forced to understand they DO have skin in the game.
The last time that happened it almost collapsed the economy, destroyed our future and led to those same youths being personally destroyed
Buying the War
https://www.youtube.com/user/ivaw/videos
scroll down
You're stuck on War. I'm not at all talking about war propagandizing. I'm saying, "Your 2 year service will be in cleaning up highways and taking care of some old people in a housing facility." National Conscription Service does not have to be only military.
Intelligence is genetic. The kids that are produced are going to be barely able to do manual labor, let alone go to space. You religious nuts really like to ignore genetics; people are not interchangeable cogs, and "culture" is the not the primary driver of success.
There, fixed that for you.
Stefan Molyneux has repeatedly said that IQ is about 80% genetic from the early teens
https://www.freedomain.com/interviewcategory/17-experts-on-human-intelligence/
Why Cognitive Inequality Matters
20% is difference between being average and being retarded. But, yall get my point :)
Mostly*, fixed that for you. Like, between 60 and 90% based on twin studies alone. In addition, Harvard has developed a genetic test that is predictive of IQ, albeit a bit weak currently. As we gain more understanding of what other genes play a role in neural development, that test will become much stronger. I'd also like to point out measurable differences in brain architecture that exist between groups of people, including between racial and ethnic groups. For example, Africans have fewer convolutions in their cortex, which indicates less processing power.
What does IQ have to do with human worth? Why are we deciding who to keep and who to kill based on a rough and unreliable measurement of intelligence?
I'm going to take a shot in the dark: You judge your own worth based on your intelligence. You think that because you're smarter than everyone else that you deserve to live more than them.
In an apocalypse scenario, I'd recruit from the ghetto before I picked your egghead ass. You'd be calculating the trajectory of a bullet before it passes through your brain and wipes out all your progress.
Sure, intelligence is genetic. but the type of intelligence measured by IQ is not predictive of success in society. Those who study and work hard will progress humanity more than those born to high IQ parents who don't. So in a sense, "culture" is the primary driver of success. Not sure where this idea that people's impact on society are decided by their DNA comes from. This goes against the conservative tenet of self-efficacy-- that you can better yourself and your situation with hard work.
That's not true at all... IQ is actually the biggest predictor of success, across all measures, though it's technically a correlation as causal links are hard to prove in this area. There are plenty of studies showing this to varying degrees, but if you're a Jordan Peterson fan, here is one of the lectures from one of his university classes on the subject https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSo5v5t4OQM.
"Success". What is success?
Does everyone have to be some Nobel laureate doctor President who cured cancer to be successful? Certainly not. Some people can, and will, and have, gone their whole lives without doing anything that we might consider "successful". But they still contribute to society. They help the gears turn. In turn, society offers them little pleasures, which keep them occupied. Some people are not destined for greatness. Some are not destined for even mediocrity. But with the right systems in place (we're certainly a ways away from this being true, but baby steps here), every single human being can find purpose, contribute something of value to the sum of humanity, and enjoy their lives on Earth.
That guy is really well-spoken. But in the end what he said doesn't really interact with what I think-- that success in life depends greatly on the work you put in.
Now if he suggests that higher IQ people are predisposed to putting in that work, then maybe Peterson and I are in agreement. Although I don't see how having drive and ambition could be connected to IQ, specifically because the way IQ is measured doesn't have any reference to work ethic, and psychometricians have taken great care to try and isolate their number to just natural cognitive ability.
But if we make the reasonable conclusion that IQ is independent of work ethic, the question becomes does work ethic matter at all? I'd say yes. Those who study hard in university to develop practical skills that they can apply to better society I deem successful, irrespective of what metrics about jobs or grades Peterson uses. That's sidestepping the fact that there are many definitions of success. The link between work ethic and success is much more clear than the correlations between IQ and success shown in longitudinal studies, which have many problems of their own.
Moreover, his whole talk controls for agreeableness, sociability, and many other factors which can contribute to success. While this is great for isolated studies about soundness of IQ, this is not great for studies about prediction of success of individuals. I think its dangerous to reduce people's ability to succeed to IQ studies, and ignore other factors. Let's not doom lower IQ people to "manual labor" over their IQ; I think we will agree it's an oversimplification.
Thanks for the link, pede. Writing this out has helped me organize my $0.02 on the subject.
https://www.freedomain.com/interviewcategory/17-experts-on-human-intelligence/
Why Cognitive Inequality Matters
Newt tried to talk about that, back during his Republican Revolution. He made a comment about orphanages for the children born because of no abortion, and the left attacked him like he was proposing labor factories for children, like in Oliver Twist.
Libs will not listen to anything that helps avoid the need for abortion. Hell, they won't even tell young women who have babies to find love because of abusive parents to not become a single parent at 17. That would require morals, and we know how few libs have.
The solution is a moral society. We're the furthest away from that in the entire history of the USA, and now that it's post-America, we'll go even further adrift.
I ALWAYS agreed with Newt on that but no one has the guts to do what's necessary
EIther as a state create a true safety net for unwanted children or create an adoption system where prospective adopters pay for maternity care, labor, etc
Instead we have rich white, unfertile parents spending 100-500k on ivf...sickening
I don't disagree either. I have some personal knowledge of this, and the problems are even worse after a child is taken into custody by the state, away from unfit parents and women who give their children up at birth. I know a couple who couldn't have kids - she was unable. So they looked into adoption. They spent years applying and being rejected, even though they were a perfect couple - liberal, he made enough she didn't have to work, very educated, intelligent, healthy, nice home, etc. Even as liberals, they're both really nice, pleasant people. But they were told don't even THINK about a white baby, and they were turned down even for crack babies. They had to leave the country and bribe a South American government to get a little baby girl who was orphaned. The left has the foster/adoption industry on lockdown. Kids spend their entire lives in foster care (and are horrifically abused), with no hope of adoption. It's beyond broken, and insane. And yes, I think child trafficking is involved. I'd bet quite a few blonde babies have ended up in the Middle East, locked away in harems. Even when famous people with millions to spend have to go overseas to adopt their virtue signalling children, you know there's a problem. And, as usual, it's liberals with their fucked up brains.
It's no different than choosing puppy breeders over adoption. People want their own children. Not ideal but I understand why. It's their money.
How about sterilization programs for those that ask for abortions? I could use your same argument.
If abortions weren’t free for the welfare class, they be rare. Just defund.
They aren't "free", they're mostly paid for by private donations. Federal money doesn't really touch that part of the business, despite the propaganda that it does. And, they do make the women pay a nominal fee (like 50 to 200 dollars) for the procedure as well.
And it's a sound one.
You're not getting it. You're carefully rationalizing to us why you're cool with with murder because it has practical value.
I live in a majority black welfare city. The women who have had 5 abortions STILL have 6 kids.
Should be at conception, but it's a start.
Mind me asking why? I agree religiously, but on a non religious level is there anything to support thag
Looking at it purely scientifically, here's the fact of the matter:
Before conception, you just have a sperm and an egg, and at the moment of conception, you still have a sperm and an egg. The material doesn't change, but the positioning of it does. The blastocyte (a collection of stem cells that forms the foundation of the human body) forms a couple of days after conception. Before then, the sperm could exit the egg, leaving you right where you started.
This fact is contrary to one key characteristic of humans: You cannot revert back to the sperm and egg you came from. At some point after conception, the process of fertilization becomes irreversible. The sperm and the egg merge into one cell and cannot be separated without fundamentally altering the material at hand. The scientific argument for when human life begins may be made no earlier than this point.
I remember the “heartbeat” bills in Alabama...whatever happened to those?
Overruled by some judge somewhere who thinks they're God, I belive.
Pregnant is pregnant.
fuck that....lets work on getting rid of these face diapers.....
Exactly, he's giving the evangelicals a pacifier when actual tyranny is taking place.
Also, Texas WIC and HHS is already breaking at the seams...who is going to cover 100-200k unwanted births a year?
200k births a year will grow up to also have children that are burdens of the welfare system.
Exactly, people forget the truth.
signal > noise has a deeper meaning everyday
The plan is to cause the system to almost fall on itself and more taxes will "save the day". Abbott is early 2000s style RINO.
Just don't wear it. I don't.
Exactly, Abbott the pussy shouldn't be trusted. He still has a state wide mask mandate. What the absolute fuck. And I am starting to see more and more liberals in Texas slapping on two fucking masks. Idiots.
Ta this rate Texas will become another NY. Austin is already Austin New York. It is no longer Texas. Houston is Houston Nigeria & Dallas is Dallas Mexico. I might have to move to South Dakota. A great governor there.
TEXIT visit the site and sign up
ALL lives matter, so do both
I agree, if wheels wants to be president of this republic he needs to pull his head out of the his wheel spokes and start listening to the people outside of Waterloo and church.
TEXIT
MASKIT
I know most here would prefer a full ban but look at it this way:
The Democrats took a thousand small steps to get here. Because it works
Bacteria is life on mars, but a heartbeat isnt life on earth?
These extreme bills are designed to fail, and RINOs know it. Wake the fuck up. If they were really playing for us they would pass a huge omnibill giving free birth control to all, and hide abortion defunding and first trimester legislation in the middle like the Dems do. We need a new party.
My line in the sand, in a world where abortion will always be around, is when the spinal column fuses. It happens fairly early on.
Third term supporters are murderers. Period.
Personally, I think brain formation/activity is a good point to argue too, but this is the correct way forward. The "starts at conception" is not a defensible position scientifically, and we really need to stop listening to left and right wind religious nut jobs.
This is right. We have a scientific defense. A zygote will become a full grown human under normal conditions. A sperm or an egg itself will not. Organ activity is hard to defend because anyone in the hospital in a coma or on a respirator could be considered to not be alive.
We need to compromise or else nothing will ever get done. Stop abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester unless it’s for a medical emergency.
Compromise is why we're in this situation in the first place. Leftists abuse that to slowly change things to how they want.
Fuck compromising anymore. Hard line stances and tell leftists to pound sand if they don't like it.
In my country abortion is banned unless the mother's live is in danger or if a woman was raped. The propaganda is crazy our women are being paid from german sources to constantly protest this everywhere. Also, we have a flow of immigrants from. Ukraine and it's crazy to me that ukrainian women openly talk about abortion just because they're positively surprised that it's illegal in my country. Crazy shit, I feel like these ukrainian women have very similar views to our men, like they belong here, meanwhile our women are like from a different planet. The point of this post is that in my opinion they use abortion as a tool to divide a nation not only by left and right but also to divide the left and the right. I know it's probably nothing that hasn't been discovered yet but last year it directly affected me and it's way more scary than everyone think. Why would a sane woman want a right to kill her baby.
How about when their genetic code first exists?
That's what you are. The first and only time it exists in the universe is at conception.
Those fags can't spin science against that
Individual sperm cells and egg cells have genetic code.
I always say it's when the sperm fuses with the egg and will naturally grow from there.
Because genetic code doesn't equate to life. Brain activity is when a human life starts, not before, and is a defensible position on the liberal and conservative side of things (unless you're one of the "life begins at conception" fags).
A turnip has a genetic code.
Yes, it should be at conception. No, using "when their genetic code first exists" is a stupid argument and is going to get you laughed out of the room.
This is how I try to talk to people who present these types of things :
Have you known many turnips that have gone through their early development and ended up as a human child? Probably not, I assume.
However, in 100 percent of cases, the "entity" that begins its life cycle at conception following the insemination of a human female's egg, will turn out to be a human being. No woman has ever given birth to a turnip, or an otter or a birch tree.
We place (rightly so) a vastly higher value on the life of one unique human being OVER that of one individual turnip.
So saying that a turnip has DNA, ergo you must be arguing that anything with DNA must be protected is intellectually dishonest.
The tiny little two celled "entity" that is only seconds old inside a woman's womb IS human, and it will continue to be human. Whether it lives to be 100, or if it dies before it is able to divide its two cells into four cells. It was and is human.
We've established that humans (SHOULD be) valued an order of magnitude more important and worthy of life than a turnip, yes?
So that holds true whether the human is in the first moment of existence or the final minutes of it.
It's a great aren't but if you think human dna is there same as turnip dna you're too fucking dumb to get it
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations. Psalm 139:13-16 Bless Governor Abbott and may many more Governors join him in this battle for human life. The children are our future and perhaps we can change things to help them not become brainwashed and know the history of our nation and the history of the Bible. Amen.
the only thing more precious than an unborn life is the right to kill that unborn life, apparently
Abortion is the biggest pandemic in human history. Thanks to abortion, the common and woman are made murderers so easily they blend in among us and we don't even know.
The Nazis killed 11 million of their innocent behind closed doors and we still talk about it. Here we've killed 62+ million out in the open and have parades, May God have mercy on us!
Over 1 billion worldwide. Some estimates as high as 1.7 billion.
My church runs EndAbortionNow.com and push es for the criminalization of abortion and I can tell you that this legislation is going to be pretty damn useless.
Here's why.... This type of legislation is counting on the person doing the ultrasound to not only detect the heartbeat but actually be honest about it. Unless you have a independent third-party agency doing the ultrasounds that are not profiting off the abortion then the technician is simply going to adjust the machine and the angle where they don't find a heartbeat.
You can't trust organizations that murder babies for profit to be honest.
We need to outlaw all abortion from the moment of conception.
Not enough. It's a living being at conception . . . period!
AND Texas should revoke the medical license of any doctor performing a heartbeat abortion. When SCOTUS rules this Unconstitutional, governor Bbott and Texas should just simply say go fuck yourselves.
Make abortion a strict liability tort and prohibit liability/malpractice insurance operating in the state from covering it. Technically still legal, respects tenuous "right to privacy" precedent, but no doctor will touch it.
Give the estate of the unborn child standing.
Another approach is to simultaneously attack the NFA and tax rights. Place onerous taxes on Plan B, abortion clinics, the procedures themselves, high speed printing presses, broadband internet. See how loud clown world will honk.
Ten years ago I thought we were never going to be able to stop this abortion train the our politicians were so bent on driving forward. It’s wonderful to see a state taking steps back in the right direction to not only preserve human life but also keep our tax dollars from going towards abortion (planned parenthood). I visible most of us agree that life begins at conception but the amount of lives this will save is a material impact on our next generation. Keep praying for repentance and revival and make your voices heard. We the people are the majority and we cannot afford to sit by and watch our values and beliefs be stripped away as rome burns.
This is the BARE MINIMUM
Updoot but not soon enough. Go back more for life.
That's to keep the Leftist Californians out 👍
Good idea.
May God Bless Texas and the entire USA!!
Way to go Gov. Abbott, get 'er done!
My children absolutely piss me off but, I couldnt imagine life without them.
The human heart starts beating at 22 days. Most countries have the cut off at ten weeks.
The abortion issue has long been a red herring argument which you realize once you look at the statistics of when women opt for abortion which is generally a few weeks before the ten weeks mark, and then the abortion rate takes a cliff dive beyond that point.
So again to be clear, the abortion argument is a red herring issue that is heavily politicized to create a voting bloc out of people who are ignorant of the details which ironically is largely young women.
And then there is more unpleasantness about this issue to consider. As long as a welfare state exists, a ban on abortions is a terrible idea. Our real problem for our society is single mother house holds. It is from them where a tremendous amount of dysfunction and crime comes from.
I agree that abortions are far from desirable but there are issues that have to be addressed to have competence around this debate.
Well, if you remove abortion from options, guys would also have to be more careful or get stuck with DNA tests and paternity suits for 18 years. Maybe they would be more careful too if they couldn't just throw a few hundred dollars at a girl and tell her to go take care of it. Generations existed before 1973 where people tried to avoid pregnancy or got married first. Abortion reduced people to barnyard animal mentality levels.
Now would be a good time to invest in abortion tourism businesses. Build a chain of abortion resorts across the border in Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Louisiana, and Texas women can book weekend abortion spa packages. Kill their baby, then relax and recover the next couple of days with massages, seaweed wraps, facials, mani-petis, and other life affirming services, so they can recover and really savor the power they had to kill their own baby.
I see an opportunity here. Best part: It will be making money off of predominantly liberal women, and it will just be that many fewer unwanted, uncared for liberals that will never have the chance to grow up and be shaped into communist agitators.
It's a start, love my state.
Texas's government seems high tier. No wonder they're desperate to flood it with California parasites, and illegals from shitholes.
If the left wants to do something right for a change they can start working on helping to end unwanted pregnancy. This means family values as much as contraceptive technology. Which is why they won't, they refuse to accept anything short of hedonism.
They would rather send billions of dollars from the poor and working folk of the US to the wealthy overseas than invest in contraceptive research.
I am uncertain on how I would solve this issue myself, and I keep an open mind. One thing I am certain of: if abortion was banned with no recourse, the left would be force to address unwanted pregnancy.
So, maybe, instead of killing the unborn we could advance male contraception.
I hate the left. They're so smug about things they do nothing to help with. So sick of them.
There is an injectable male contraceptive in the works called vasagel, but of course no major company wants to fund the research, and the FDA is stonewalling it like always.
Letting men protect themselves from baby traps? No, no, no, no, no. Only women are allowed to get away from responsibility, men must have it imposed on them!
The plow horses are not allowed to leave the plantation!
Yes. I am aware of this and other major roadblocks in stopping abortion. I hate the left passionately because of this. I support a ban on abortion if anything to get them to wake the fuck up and start fixing this problem with us. They deserve nothing less than that and frankly, we all deserve a better world together.
I am sick and tired of this wedge issue, and it is a wedge issue, being used as a weapon against the American people.
We can solve most of the problem by focusing 99% of the energy we all have (left, right, or whatever) on non-invasive, healthy contraception.
The remaining 1% of our energy should be geared towards debating life at conception and teenage pregancy.
That's it.
Male contraception that would eliminate the need for hormone altering "birth control" pills could nearly end unwanted pregnancies. If it was proven viable 99.9995%.
Further research is needed.
8wks.
Its a start
Thank God! Life is life, once pregnancy is detected!
They need to find a way to limit the sale of fetal tissue. We can’t continue to incentivize clinics to push for abortions. Keeping a baby on life support to harvest organs days later is fucked up.
I’ll take it! Let’s get it passed pronto!
Lets go for at conception now
This is a start
Next step, secession!
When it comes to babies the retards on the left have no problem killing them. But if you step on a turtles egg they want to hang you.
The only stands they have are double standards. Their so dumb.
Caveat: Abbott says the fetus must wear a mask or the deal is off.
Ta-da! Boom. (Drum hit.)
Can he do something about the border wall too?
Red herring.
Why are conservatives such suckers for abortion...
Because it's murder.
Not 100% behind this, as there can be situations that develop after that point in the pregnancy that could lead to the death of either or both the mother and the child. A blanket ban doesn't address that.
However, something needs to be done about these jackasses using abortion as contraception. Maybe medical exemptions? Definitely needs to be looked at and discussed (and not people just shouting slogans at each other).