Conservatism, in its original sense, has no specific ideological content at all, since everything depends on what one is trying to conserve. In the last days of the Soviet Union, for example, those who were trying to preserve the existing Communist regime were rightly referred to as “conservatives,” though what they were trying to conserve had nothing in common with what was advocated by Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek or William F. Buckley.
Any ideological content one would advocate for would immediately be dismissed as being "far right" or extremist. That ideological content, at it's root, should be culture first. Any pushback against the prevailing hegemonic culture as it exists today is automatically deemed bigoted or racist or sexist.
At some point conservatives are going to have to learn to accept the label and say "so what" to the accusation. Liberals do this with the rhetoric of conservatives: they prould label themselves sluts, or cucks, or they "shout their abortion". This tactic shouldn't be one-sided. When called an -ist word, don't defend yourself, proudly shout it out. By defending agaisnt the accusation, you've already conceded to their moral framework. Agree and amplify is the correct response as it essentially ignores the initial accusation.
I like the idea that you can’t be accused of what you freely admit. It’s a good disarming tactic for people who want to argue ideology. Shuts that shit right down.
I mean that's a bit silly. The word doesn't even really mean "conserve everything!" it just has a historical basis for being called that. I don't even necessarily agree we want to conserve shit, most shit sucks. We want to GO BACK to old American values that have been eroded. Restoritism?
Yeah but Malice has some really fucked up views on other things. I like a lot of what he says but when he starts talking about his support of anarchy he sounds like a fuckin moron.
Anti-police, anti law enforcement, people can just hire armed security in his view.
It only exists to propagate illegal labor, which feeds illegal immigration. If farms and businesses could give a proper wage to high schoolers, there would be no immigration or unemployment problem.
You get paid what you're worth. If you have schooling/training/experience in Engineering, you're going to get paid a lot more than a field hand bucking hay. It doesn't take skill to buck hay. Anyone can do it, and there is automated equipment to buck hay for people. You can't replace an engineer with something automated and given the amount of time and money that goes into being an engineer, they need to be compensated accordingly.
Like it or not, it is the way it is and it's how free markets literally function. There is no reason for the government to dictate how the market functions. That's how markets fail.
Back in middle school I knew kids who were making $4-5/hr picking apples. That's a lot of money at that age that you don't have to leech from your parents to buy games and clothes.
Kids don't know how to find jobs and how capitalism works as that's not a priority being taught in schools and their teachers don't have much experience with the job market, they just get degrees and apply to schools and that was that. Kids want to work and capitalism is the best thing for teenagers if only they realized all that was open to them.
Back in the Paleozoic era (err, the early-mid 1980s) we got $4/hr for detasseling corn. You'd ride in the back of a tractor on an elevated platform pulling tassels off of corn-stalks (you did it to control pollination, hybridize crops, or suchlike.)
It was insanely hard on the hands and fingers (even with gloves), but you could chat with friends while you did it (there were at least 2-4 of you on the platform), and it paid way better than minimum wage at the time (which was $3.25/hr, IIRC). I did it over a couple of summers to buy (then restore) my first car.
5 or 6 is nothing these days thanks to inflation and teenagers have ridiculous endurance and can out work someone in their 30s and 40s physically, especially since they don't have things like back and body issues.
That is why a Strict Immigration Policy is required, and they must be self-sufficent, without Social Welfare, most Immigrants would quickly either turn around or never come in the first place.
Get rid of the minimum wage and you see how cheap some people would work. I know guys that'll remodel your house for a case of beer. Or girls who'll go all the way for a ride to the store. Economics are nuts man. On a more serious note if the minimum wage wasn't a thing products would probably cost less due to the labor part being cheaper.
Firstly I'm of the opinion that women entering the work force in more and more numbers ruined and is ruining this country economically, so yes that was part of it. I'd say having two earners allowed companies to charge more for things since there was more money.
Ik many folk in Cities who had BETTER work for under minimum wage. Eliminate Social Welfare, then Eliminate the Minimum Wage, and I guarantee, we would have Full Employment within 2-3 Months.
Can you explain how it does this? Maybe I'm just dense but I dont understand how minimum wage increases illegal immigration. Wouldn't it bring it down because there are less shit jobs that Americans wouldn't do?
Min wage (government mandated) means you HAVE to pay that.
What if you can't really afford that, or just don't want to? Easy: pay someone "under the table" for less.
Who though? You need someone will to work illegally and risk the tax man. Easy: someone who isn't even legal in the first place.
This is THE jobs market that keeps illegals in the country, and has them calling home to invite more friends and family to the wonderful land of America where you get free social services, cash jobs, and NEVER have to pay taxes!!!
This is WHY there are hundreds of thousands of people scrambling through a desert and over a wall to get here.
If there were no cash under the table jobs, they would not be able to support themselves here. There would be no reason to come here.
This whole "Jobs Americans won't do" is only true because they are pampered by the very existence of this slave class. Of course the pampered masses don't want to do the jobs the slaves have been doing, that should never be a reason to keep the slavery going, and should never be used as the economic reasoning to maintain an unsustainable minimum wage.
Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.
Minimum wage laws appear to give low-income workers something for nothing—and appearances are what count in politics. Realities can be left to others, so long as appearances get votes.
Well ok,but look at that,and say me: it is right that Wallmart owners steal your taxes by not paing those people enough ? If there would be no food stamps for them they wouldn't afford to work for such company. Or with minimal salary they wouldn't probably need food stamps so much.
The problem with minimal salary is however it would hit much more small companies. There is however good question: if those companies are unable to keep their workers without government subsidies, then are they really efficient enough to stay on market ?
It doesn't matter it was mentioned by "progressives" (leftists) if it is fact.
It is so disgusting like Amazon employing old hard working people living in caravans and giving them painkillers as "benefit" for hard demanding underpaid work causing their old body be harmed more and more (pain is signal of body being damaged !)
Socialism and state tyranny will be never answer to that,but cabal is not only "deep state" - that are also baron-robbers sucking blood from hard working people - literally and figuratively.
Remember - any form of subsidies is so bad kind of socialism interference in markets like minimal salary. Even worse,because subsidies too promote lack of efficiency of companies on the market,unfair competition and transfer your tax-money to the rich from the state robbing you by taxes. If it isn't serving long-term purpose of society and the state like for example spacex can - then it is theft
If you would want to produce Food or Clothing without paying enough to your employees to afford food and clothing they will surely steal from you to survive sooner or later.
The problem with competing corporations is not about keeping low salaries - if you are able to compete only by making your employees poor slaves you are terrible businessman.Problem is really about law dictated by corporations not allowing small business to do their job.
I mean the problem is: government subsidies for rich companies, government licenses,filling bureaucratic bullshit, most regulations not being about safety...
And problem of majority of companies competing in paying low is usually:
a) bad buisnessman not caring enough about his company, not knowing his employees,not caring about them and about how work is being done, having no idea how to do it better and cheaper. (this last thing: "Undercover boss" show, it is nice when boss learns about his company only after he gets into tv isn't it /s )
b) cutting costs there where you shouldn't and allowing costs somewhere else
(especially keeping old tech breaking many times,or buying brand new things when you shouldn't , not repairing old things - sometimes no businesses who repair things anyway but...)
c) Too big competition on the market or bad clients: how many clients you would have in 40k citizens city with 100 restaurants ? And is really client wanting to pay 1 cent for 10 hours of your work or criticizing you and wanting to change 10 times because he/she is unwilling to pay worth of care ?
Because it can be exploitative. Unskilled workers had no bargaining power. They were easily replaced. And the wages were poverty-level.
Society has decided it isn't ethically or morally acceptable for a corporation to take advantage of the supply of labor to pay an adult insultingly low wages.
If the wages are insultingly low then don’t take the job. By setting a minimum wage you’re only limiting job opportunities and eliminating competition between businesses in how much they pay their workers. You’re price fixing the cost of labor.
If the wages are insultingly low then don’t take the job
Unless there are for example food stamps for working people or other benefits founded from your taxes or even from charities ? You got it ? If they need government help to buy fucking food then probably their salaries are probably too low.
Profits for the rich,the costs to pay for all the others. It is obvious theft so.
You’re price fixing the cost of labor.
It would be bad indeed and you would be right... if that would be cost of labor defined by market in free competition.Many times it isn't.
Idk man, it's so low right now I don't think many places would pay below that even in a totally free market. So it's not the minimum wage I take issue with, it's the ridiculously high figure liberals want.
What’s wrong with someone offering a wage they feel is acceptable and someone freely accepting it?
Well the problem is the question about this economic liberal idea is:
Is such person not having job free for sure ? Free from hunger,bills and so on - if not,how we can speak about "free will" when you are victim of survival instincts
If somebody would offer slavery and other person would "accept" would slavery be right ? No. By the way - even slave has food and basic shelter guaranteed, slave was valuable property after all.
On fully free market with competition close to ideal one (with growing economy and companies hiring on every corner anybody having hands and will to work) there wouldn't be possible case with people earning less that they need to survive.But is America such country ?
No. America was near being such country maybe,but today it isn't such one.
I agree that regulating salaries is socialist policy. But as I wrote above: aren't such government subsidies for some companies or food stamps for people working in some companies (being kind of hidden subsidies) ?
You need something done you can't/don't want to do yourself. I have the skillset to get it done. We negotiate the fair price of my time/effort/labor for performing the task. The more complex/specialized/difficult the task, the more that is going to be charged as replacing those skills is difficult and time is literally money being lost.
If people feel their labor is being undervalued, people will stop working for the company, or they will be forced to hire inferior people. Either case, it causes the decline of the company in question and they will go away.
Every company I've ever worked for (mom and pop, local company, world wide corporations) has always offered me more money than minimum wage. They may not have offered me as much as I would have liked, but it's never -EVER- been minimum wage. It's always been more. Because they need to attract talent that will stick around. It's a HUGE money sink to train employee's or get them rolling to production. They are given an incentive from this alone to provide a means to keep them around. And they keep them through fair pay that matches or exceeds cost of living for the area.
It's in the businesses best interests to pay their employee's a fair wage. The employee benefits and so does the company.
This is basic economics. It's staggering that a retard like me can grasp this but the Government cannot.
Democracy has nothing to do with freedom. Democracy is a soft variant of communism, and rarely in the history of ideas has it been taken for anything else.
You do realize that Dems aren't going to raise the minimum wage? They'll keep it as is, then once they lose the House and Senate in 22, they'll start pushing for it and blame the GOP for blocking it.
They did the same in 2010 when we took back the House. Dems don't actually want to increase the minimum wage, their corporate donors would be impacted. They just want their voters to feel like they're fighting for something.
The "good" news is that Biden will probably fuck up the country so badly that a lot of those people will go home. It happened during the Great Recession. He's about to make Guatamala and Mexico look like great places to live by comparison
Drive out all small shops and businesses so people are FORCED to go to the few mega corporations in each industry. AKA Amazon, WalMart, McDonald's, etc.
Then, when people are acclimated to that, they'll roll in governmental communism.
You realize there are things outside of the election fraud right? And that things need to keep moving in order for a country to actually function?
Yes, the election fraud is a big deal, but not everything is a 'distraction' or 'kabuki theater'. This was bound to come up sooner or later and it has nothing to do with the election fraud or distracting the American people from it. There's nothing to distract them from.
EVERYONE knows the election was challenged and 99% of the American people have made up their minds in regards to it. Most think the Election was stolen. Some don't care that the election was stolen. A small amount think it wasn't stolen. There are no undecided minds. The only thing left to do is drawn lines and start massing troops. And until that happens, we have time to deal with other stupid shit.
This would almost certainly impact the southwest the most. Southern CA, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. Curious what kind of an impact we'd see on local economies there.
It would impact the entire nation. And, it needs to happen. As far as I'm aware, the Social Security administration has no fucks to give, if an employer submits a number, all that gets checked is if it's a legit number - but no attempt is made to connect the number with a name, and no ID is required by the person claiming the number. The employer is supposed to verify that, but nobody does, and nobody gets punished for it.
That's how retired people get massive tax bills and dropped from coverage, because some carpet layer in Iowa is using their SS#. It's a real problem, but like everything else, it's swept under the rug.
This is most certainly not even worth talking about because the only reason it is being proposed now is because it has no chance of passing. When democrats lie and cheat until they manage to appear as 51% they rule as if they are 100% and our republican representatives are well aware of this.
"We'll meet you ten percent of the way to your communist demands, if you just give up the whole open borders thing. Pinky promise with cherries on top."
I think our "Representatives" need to be first in line before we even bother trying to get the rest of the country back.
Idk how so many people don't understand how raising the min. wage helps nobody, and seriously fucks over those who saved $ their entire lives for retirement.
That's why stock piling cash isn't as smart as gold, stocks, real estate, or something that gains value with inflation, not loses value
Raising the minimum wage means raising cost of living across the entire board.
If the feds raise the minimum wage, I will demand a raise at my own job, as my money will become worth less, and my buying power will decrease with my current wage.
The RIGHT way to make more money is to create economic spikes that lead to naturally rising wages, like was happening under Trump as a far greater pace than Obama, Bush, ect.
Also, stop importing third world labor. Mass migration means more competition, and workers searching for work, not companies searching for workers.
If there are more workers than GOOD jobs, then you end up with shit wages.
If there are more jobs than qualified workers, that means companies will work to educate new work forces, and go out of their way to recruit new workers, which to recruit, you need to make them happy.
It's all basic common sense. Raising the minimum wage is putting a temporary band aid on poverty, and really doesn't help anyone in most cases, as we see nationwide inflation.
And guess what? When inflation occurs, corporations don't simply even things out to keep profits the same.
They charge EVEN MORE, as they NEVER take profit cuts, and ALWAYS increase profits.
We've seen that during corona. They drastically raised prices of everyday needs and food products.
The farmers weren't making more money..
They were making less!
Thanks friend, I appreciate that! I'm not really intelligent when it comes to economics, but I like to think I am well rounded when it comes to common sense...
Which honestly, I think it's time we retire that term...
Nowadays it should be called "uncommon sense" Hahaha. It really should though, right?
"Raising the minimum wage means raising cost of living across the entire board.
If the feds raise the minimum wage, I will demand a raise at my own job, as my money will become worth less, and my buying power will decrease with my current wage."
And they will just say no. So really it's only increasing what the low end make, right?
I'm in a lucky scenario in which my employer agrees with our views, and actually will raise my wage, along with the cost of our service being passed on to our customers.
We are all agreed luckily. But a leftist corporation definitely won't do this. It's all a big move for mega corps like Amazon to destroy their competition.
Not in the way that you are implying. Yeah they (those making min wage) may take home more numbers per hour on paper, but their living expenses get increased thanks to the natural inflation in all goods and services caused by requiring a higher minimum wage.
So really what happens is those that were making a little bit more than whatever the new minimum wage is and weren't fortunate enough to get a raise relative to the increase in minimum wage...are getting fucked with no lube because their relative purchasing power just decreased.
And that's before considering those people whose positions and hours get cut due to rising payroll expenses.
Minimum wage increases literally creates more people that are considered to be in poverty or the lower class thanks to the above factors.
Less paid hours, less purchasing power per dollar.
Also, as other have noted, it creates a black market for illegal labor (who are non taxpayers) that increase competition for goods, services, and housing. And who cause an increase in tax rates to keep the welfare programs that they also abuse solvent.
So it ends up at minimum a triple whammy spiked and splintered baseball bat sodomizing of the middle and lower classes.
This how the uniparty works. Pay attention. The GOP have now agreed to raising minimum wage and pretending "you win" by saying it's only if they ensure worker legality.
In reality workers should be legal and there shouldn't be a minimum wage. This isn't a winning bill, it's a losing bill.
And then the left will legalize all the workers. Minimum wage bump and tons of cheap labor that industry can make work off the clock hours plus unlimited justification for continued D election fraud.
Damn strait! I’ve seen this exact game before with the motor voter law, lawyers will say you can’t ask if someone is a citizen. So mitt and cotton want to raise the min wage and then say they were betrayed by the democrats.
Even Republicans wouldn't go for that. They love illegals just as much as the Dems do! The only difference being Republicans want to keep them illegal for cheap labor and Dems want to give them citizenship and benefits while making them immune to taxation and criminal prosecution.
They want to make them citizens so they vote and collect welfare. They want a generation of government dependent drones who think the Democrat Party is their savior and the only thing keeping them fed.
The government wants people to fear them, when it should be the other way around.
I saw that too. If I had to pick $10 min wage or $15. I'd go for $10. However, because it's "the other party" it will never be agreed to. GOP needs to market this $10 min wage so when $15 min wage doesn't work out they have this backup plan.
Yep, how many times are they going to get burned on these bargains before they wise up?
Maybe dems go for this, but you can believe some court is going to swoop in and declare everify can't be used regardless of this deal, and we'll be stuck with a 10$ minimum wage until they get it to 15 or more.
Isn't it already illegal to be hiring aliens? Maybe enforce existing law and stop tying it to economically damaging minimum wage hikes? It's like giving away to leftist issues only to "gain" stuff you already have.
Republican Sens. Mitt Romney and Tom Cotton are proposing to raise the federal minimum wage to $10, but only if businesses are required to use the internet-based E-Verify system designed to prevent employers from hiring undocumented workers.
Reasonable compromise. The shocking part is Romney. Thought he'd have no problem with illegal immigrants being here.
“Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.”
― Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy
Thats a lot more reasonable than $15/hr, which is exactly why it has zero chance of passing. People on the left don’t care about logic, reasoning, practicality, logistics, etc... they just think you can fire up the money printers with no consequences.
We shouldn't be making any compromises. That's the problem. We compromise too much.
Let their minimum wage bill die on the senate floor. Don't try to compromise or meet in the middle. It's all or nothing. We need to be as ruthless as them or we will never be on equal ground.
This sounds like a big deal but I don't think it is. Businesses are already supposed to do this but there are workarounds. A business can't be relied upon to identify "brilliant" counterfeit documents. This feels like them putting on a show that doesn't really change anything to justify going along. Disappointing
Minimum wage shouldn't be raised at all. If we compromise at 10 it will take all of 20 seconds for them to turn around and demand 20 dollars an our waiting for us to compromise.
screw Romney trying to look like he's doing something for the people, it's a moot gesture since the dems already said $15 to repay their voters, they well think it's a pay cut from those cheep ass republicans, he should have said $1,500 an hour only to democrat voters it would pass in a heart beat
How about we just enforce the fucking existing laws and arrest and actually DEPORT the tens of millions of economic terrorists/foreign invaders already here instead? More bullshit do nothing showmanship from the "republican" wing of the uniparty. Sadly, this will keep more than enough dipshits cheering and "voting" for the republicans for no good reason.
And the Republicans in Congress still haven't learned to not give the Communists anything. They wanna work with the other side of the aisle. When I'm in Congress, and I will be running sometime soon, there's no way in hell I'll be working with the other side of the aisle as long as the other side of the aisle is full of people who want to destroy America.
The "They win some. We win some" Republicans are the death of the country. Fight, you spineless pieces of shit.
There shouldn't be a minimum wage.
Spineless Republicans and their half-measures ...
The accuracy of that quote just blew my mind. Please take this updoot.
Any ideological content one would advocate for would immediately be dismissed as being "far right" or extremist. That ideological content, at it's root, should be culture first. Any pushback against the prevailing hegemonic culture as it exists today is automatically deemed bigoted or racist or sexist.
At some point conservatives are going to have to learn to accept the label and say "so what" to the accusation. Liberals do this with the rhetoric of conservatives: they prould label themselves sluts, or cucks, or they "shout their abortion". This tactic shouldn't be one-sided. When called an -ist word, don't defend yourself, proudly shout it out. By defending agaisnt the accusation, you've already conceded to their moral framework. Agree and amplify is the correct response as it essentially ignores the initial accusation.
I like the idea that you can’t be accused of what you freely admit. It’s a good disarming tactic for people who want to argue ideology. Shuts that shit right down.
I've found a gif of a guy with outstretched arms getti g rained on. Works well on faceberg when I want to bomb some shitlib circlejerk thread.
I mean that's a bit silly. The word doesn't even really mean "conserve everything!" it just has a historical basis for being called that. I don't even necessarily agree we want to conserve shit, most shit sucks. We want to GO BACK to old American values that have been eroded. Restoritism?
ditto that, can’t believe I didn’t think that one up
Yeah but Malice has some really fucked up views on other things. I like a lot of what he says but when he starts talking about his support of anarchy he sounds like a fuckin moron.
Anti-police, anti law enforcement, people can just hire armed security in his view.
Dope Malice quote... thank you.
It only exists to propagate illegal labor, which feeds illegal immigration. If farms and businesses could give a proper wage to high schoolers, there would be no immigration or unemployment problem.
Farms can give proper wages, High Schoolers should be making 5 or 6 bucks an hour. Nothing like 15.
Because High Schoolers have no skills except their manual labor.
Not sure why you got downvoted.
That's the reality of the free market.
You get paid what you're worth. If you have schooling/training/experience in Engineering, you're going to get paid a lot more than a field hand bucking hay. It doesn't take skill to buck hay. Anyone can do it, and there is automated equipment to buck hay for people. You can't replace an engineer with something automated and given the amount of time and money that goes into being an engineer, they need to be compensated accordingly.
Like it or not, it is the way it is and it's how free markets literally function. There is no reason for the government to dictate how the market functions. That's how markets fail.
The "Market" has corrected itself, I am upvoted now.
High Schoolers need to understand that
A. It's who you know, not what you know.
B. If you don't know anyone, try to know everything you can.
Back in middle school I knew kids who were making $4-5/hr picking apples. That's a lot of money at that age that you don't have to leech from your parents to buy games and clothes.
Ik. The current problem is that A. Kids overvalue their labor
and B. Lack Transportation to these farms do to Suburbanisation, and such.
Kids don't know how to find jobs and how capitalism works as that's not a priority being taught in schools and their teachers don't have much experience with the job market, they just get degrees and apply to schools and that was that. Kids want to work and capitalism is the best thing for teenagers if only they realized all that was open to them.
Back in the Paleozoic era (err, the early-mid 1980s) we got $4/hr for detasseling corn. You'd ride in the back of a tractor on an elevated platform pulling tassels off of corn-stalks (you did it to control pollination, hybridize crops, or suchlike.)
It was insanely hard on the hands and fingers (even with gloves), but you could chat with friends while you did it (there were at least 2-4 of you on the platform), and it paid way better than minimum wage at the time (which was $3.25/hr, IIRC). I did it over a couple of summers to buy (then restore) my first car.
$5-$6 an hour? What world are you living in. A soy latte is at least six dollars. How would they be able to Ford their soy coffee - rrrreeeeeee
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
5 or 6 is nothing these days thanks to inflation and teenagers have ridiculous endurance and can out work someone in their 30s and 40s physically, especially since they don't have things like back and body issues.
Indeed, but with the removal of Minimum Wage, and with that hopefully Welfare, Inflation would most likely go down.
In a free market perhaps, but one where they can flood our country with immigrants and export our best paying jobs I strongly disagree.
That is why a Strict Immigration Policy is required, and they must be self-sufficent, without Social Welfare, most Immigrants would quickly either turn around or never come in the first place.
That really isn't far off from min. wage though. That's my thing, I don't think many people would work for less than 7.50$ an hour anyway.
Get rid of the minimum wage and you see how cheap some people would work. I know guys that'll remodel your house for a case of beer. Or girls who'll go all the way for a ride to the store. Economics are nuts man. On a more serious note if the minimum wage wasn't a thing products would probably cost less due to the labor part being cheaper.
It used to be you could have a house, car, etc on one income.
Do you think they raised prices when there was no need when the two income home began? Or is it just inflation?
Firstly I'm of the opinion that women entering the work force in more and more numbers ruined and is ruining this country economically, so yes that was part of it. I'd say having two earners allowed companies to charge more for things since there was more money.
I think the number of cars, TVs, size of house ect has probably gone up a lot as well.
Ik many folk in Cities who had BETTER work for under minimum wage. Eliminate Social Welfare, then Eliminate the Minimum Wage, and I guarantee, we would have Full Employment within 2-3 Months.
Can you explain how it does this? Maybe I'm just dense but I dont understand how minimum wage increases illegal immigration. Wouldn't it bring it down because there are less shit jobs that Americans wouldn't do?
Min wage (government mandated) means you HAVE to pay that.
What if you can't really afford that, or just don't want to? Easy: pay someone "under the table" for less.
Who though? You need someone will to work illegally and risk the tax man. Easy: someone who isn't even legal in the first place.
This is THE jobs market that keeps illegals in the country, and has them calling home to invite more friends and family to the wonderful land of America where you get free social services, cash jobs, and NEVER have to pay taxes!!!
This is WHY there are hundreds of thousands of people scrambling through a desert and over a wall to get here.
If there were no cash under the table jobs, they would not be able to support themselves here. There would be no reason to come here.
This whole "Jobs Americans won't do" is only true because they are pampered by the very existence of this slave class. Of course the pampered masses don't want to do the jobs the slaves have been doing, that should never be a reason to keep the slavery going, and should never be used as the economic reasoning to maintain an unsustainable minimum wage.
Also with the other reply, businesses have to pay a payroll tax.
If an employer pays you 30k/yr they have to pay payroll taxes, just like you pay income tax.
That 30k becomes 50k. It's then cheaper to pay an illegal 15/hr under the table.
There absolutely should be.....as determined by your city government. Federal level is fucking dumb.
The RINO's know this is a non-starter and are using the no-illegals as political cover.
RINO's are controlled by the big corporations and the US Chamber of Commerce who want the cheap labor.
Doesn't matter the $ amount, all talk of a minimum wage is an ideological litmus test for politicians. No compromise on this issue.
Smoked'em, Uncle Thom!
I mean if you're not 7.50 an hour you need to learn a basic skill. Not that hard.
Well ok,but look at that,and say me: it is right that Wallmart owners steal your taxes by not paing those people enough ? If there would be no food stamps for them they wouldn't afford to work for such company. Or with minimal salary they wouldn't probably need food stamps so much.
The problem with minimal salary is however it would hit much more small companies. There is however good question: if those companies are unable to keep their workers without government subsidies, then are they really efficient enough to stay on market ?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/
It doesn't matter it was mentioned by "progressives" (leftists) if it is fact.
It is so disgusting like Amazon employing old hard working people living in caravans and giving them painkillers as "benefit" for hard demanding underpaid work causing their old body be harmed more and more (pain is signal of body being damaged !)
Socialism and state tyranny will be never answer to that,but cabal is not only "deep state" - that are also baron-robbers sucking blood from hard working people - literally and figuratively.
Remember - any form of subsidies is so bad kind of socialism interference in markets like minimal salary. Even worse,because subsidies too promote lack of efficiency of companies on the market,unfair competition and transfer your tax-money to the rich from the state robbing you by taxes. If it isn't serving long-term purpose of society and the state like for example spacex can - then it is theft
Interesting. Thanks for the contribution, made some good points.
What’s wrong with someone offering a wage they feel is acceptable and someone freely accepting it?
Union Workers. Literally American Communist.
This is correct.
Also, minimum wage is pushed by big corporations to drive small businesses into the ground so they can gobble up market share.
In order to produce pratical monopolies on everything from Food to Clothing.
If you would want to produce Food or Clothing without paying enough to your employees to afford food and clothing they will surely steal from you to survive sooner or later.
The problem with competing corporations is not about keeping low salaries - if you are able to compete only by making your employees poor slaves you are terrible businessman.Problem is really about law dictated by corporations not allowing small business to do their job.
I mean the problem is: government subsidies for rich companies, government licenses,filling bureaucratic bullshit, most regulations not being about safety...
And problem of majority of companies competing in paying low is usually:
a) bad buisnessman not caring enough about his company, not knowing his employees,not caring about them and about how work is being done, having no idea how to do it better and cheaper. (this last thing: "Undercover boss" show, it is nice when boss learns about his company only after he gets into tv isn't it /s )
b) cutting costs there where you shouldn't and allowing costs somewhere else (especially keeping old tech breaking many times,or buying brand new things when you shouldn't , not repairing old things - sometimes no businesses who repair things anyway but...)
c) Too big competition on the market or bad clients: how many clients you would have in 40k citizens city with 100 restaurants ? And is really client wanting to pay 1 cent for 10 hours of your work or criticizing you and wanting to change 10 times because he/she is unwilling to pay worth of care ?
Because it can be exploitative. Unskilled workers had no bargaining power. They were easily replaced. And the wages were poverty-level.
Society has decided it isn't ethically or morally acceptable for a corporation to take advantage of the supply of labor to pay an adult insultingly low wages.
If the wages are insultingly low then don’t take the job. By setting a minimum wage you’re only limiting job opportunities and eliminating competition between businesses in how much they pay their workers. You’re price fixing the cost of labor.
Unless there are for example food stamps for working people or other benefits founded from your taxes or even from charities ? You got it ? If they need government help to buy fucking food then probably their salaries are probably too low.
Profits for the rich,the costs to pay for all the others. It is obvious theft so.
It would be bad indeed and you would be right... if that would be cost of labor defined by market in free competition.Many times it isn't.
Idk man, it's so low right now I don't think many places would pay below that even in a totally free market. So it's not the minimum wage I take issue with, it's the ridiculously high figure liberals want.
Well the problem is the question about this economic liberal idea is:
Is such person not having job free for sure ? Free from hunger,bills and so on - if not,how we can speak about "free will" when you are victim of survival instincts
If somebody would offer slavery and other person would "accept" would slavery be right ? No. By the way - even slave has food and basic shelter guaranteed, slave was valuable property after all.
On fully free market with competition close to ideal one (with growing economy and companies hiring on every corner anybody having hands and will to work) there wouldn't be possible case with people earning less that they need to survive.But is America such country ?
No. America was near being such country maybe,but today it isn't such one.
I agree that regulating salaries is socialist policy. But as I wrote above: aren't such government subsidies for some companies or food stamps for people working in some companies (being kind of hidden subsidies) ?
Honestly, not even then. If the wage is too low, people just won’t work. Businesses will have to raise wages to attract laborers.
More jobs means higher paying jobs. More competition for labor.
This is how employment works.
You need something done you can't/don't want to do yourself. I have the skillset to get it done. We negotiate the fair price of my time/effort/labor for performing the task. The more complex/specialized/difficult the task, the more that is going to be charged as replacing those skills is difficult and time is literally money being lost.
If people feel their labor is being undervalued, people will stop working for the company, or they will be forced to hire inferior people. Either case, it causes the decline of the company in question and they will go away.
Every company I've ever worked for (mom and pop, local company, world wide corporations) has always offered me more money than minimum wage. They may not have offered me as much as I would have liked, but it's never -EVER- been minimum wage. It's always been more. Because they need to attract talent that will stick around. It's a HUGE money sink to train employee's or get them rolling to production. They are given an incentive from this alone to provide a means to keep them around. And they keep them through fair pay that matches or exceeds cost of living for the area.
It's in the businesses best interests to pay their employee's a fair wage. The employee benefits and so does the company.
This is basic economics. It's staggering that a retard like me can grasp this but the Government cannot.
I doubt it. Some Mexican will do it.
No, there should not be.
Agreed! Get rid of the entire thing and let capitalism do it's thing. The market will determine who's paid what. Don't like your wages? Be worth more.
Came here to second this
Nope - Dems want to cripple the economy with $15 minimum wage to propagate communism and bring more illegals to rig what is left of democracy
You do realize that Dems aren't going to raise the minimum wage? They'll keep it as is, then once they lose the House and Senate in 22, they'll start pushing for it and blame the GOP for blocking it. They did the same in 2010 when we took back the House. Dems don't actually want to increase the minimum wage, their corporate donors would be impacted. They just want their voters to feel like they're fighting for something.
I think they'll try. Raising the minimum wage won't lift anybody up, it'll just smash the lower and middle classes together into the same shit bin.
The "good" news is that Biden will probably fuck up the country so badly that a lot of those people will go home. It happened during the Great Recession. He's about to make Guatamala and Mexico look like great places to live by comparison
They want to induce 'economic communism' first.
Drive out all small shops and businesses so people are FORCED to go to the few mega corporations in each industry. AKA Amazon, WalMart, McDonald's, etc.
Then, when people are acclimated to that, they'll roll in governmental communism.
NO. STOP CONCEDING THE PREMISE.
After DECADES of concession, it's all they know!
Maybe after a few decades more, people will figure out that they are doing it on purpose.
Politics is pro wrestling for the out of shape.
You realize there are things outside of the election fraud right? And that things need to keep moving in order for a country to actually function?
Yes, the election fraud is a big deal, but not everything is a 'distraction' or 'kabuki theater'. This was bound to come up sooner or later and it has nothing to do with the election fraud or distracting the American people from it. There's nothing to distract them from.
EVERYONE knows the election was challenged and 99% of the American people have made up their minds in regards to it. Most think the Election was stolen. Some don't care that the election was stolen. A small amount think it wasn't stolen. There are no undecided minds. The only thing left to do is drawn lines and start massing troops. And until that happens, we have time to deal with other stupid shit.
This would almost certainly impact the southwest the most. Southern CA, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. Curious what kind of an impact we'd see on local economies there.
Arizona is already fucked by their own minimum wage.
And about to be fucked by their new NY-style tax. Fucking californians just ruined that state for good
It would impact the entire nation. And, it needs to happen. As far as I'm aware, the Social Security administration has no fucks to give, if an employer submits a number, all that gets checked is if it's a legit number - but no attempt is made to connect the number with a name, and no ID is required by the person claiming the number. The employer is supposed to verify that, but nobody does, and nobody gets punished for it.
That's how retired people get massive tax bills and dropped from coverage, because some carpet layer in Iowa is using their SS#. It's a real problem, but like everything else, it's swept under the rug.
This is most certainly not even worth talking about because the only reason it is being proposed now is because it has no chance of passing. When democrats lie and cheat until they manage to appear as 51% they rule as if they are 100% and our republican representatives are well aware of this.
LOL this is so stupid, even for a virtue signal.
"We'll meet you ten percent of the way to your communist demands, if you just give up the whole open borders thing. Pinky promise with cherries on top."
I think our "Representatives" need to be first in line before we even bother trying to get the rest of the country back.
Idk how so many people don't understand how raising the min. wage helps nobody, and seriously fucks over those who saved $ their entire lives for retirement.
That's why stock piling cash isn't as smart as gold, stocks, real estate, or something that gains value with inflation, not loses value
Raising the minimum wage means raising cost of living across the entire board.
If the feds raise the minimum wage, I will demand a raise at my own job, as my money will become worth less, and my buying power will decrease with my current wage.
The RIGHT way to make more money is to create economic spikes that lead to naturally rising wages, like was happening under Trump as a far greater pace than Obama, Bush, ect.
Also, stop importing third world labor. Mass migration means more competition, and workers searching for work, not companies searching for workers.
If there are more workers than GOOD jobs, then you end up with shit wages.
If there are more jobs than qualified workers, that means companies will work to educate new work forces, and go out of their way to recruit new workers, which to recruit, you need to make them happy.
It's all basic common sense. Raising the minimum wage is putting a temporary band aid on poverty, and really doesn't help anyone in most cases, as we see nationwide inflation.
And guess what? When inflation occurs, corporations don't simply even things out to keep profits the same.
They charge EVEN MORE, as they NEVER take profit cuts, and ALWAYS increase profits.
We've seen that during corona. They drastically raised prices of everyday needs and food products.
The farmers weren't making more money.. They were making less!
The corporations? Posted record high profits
Yep, there is no reason to have h1b and related in this country, it is a net loss.
Excellent post !
Thanks friend, I appreciate that! I'm not really intelligent when it comes to economics, but I like to think I am well rounded when it comes to common sense...
Which honestly, I think it's time we retire that term...
Nowadays it should be called "uncommon sense" Hahaha. It really should though, right?
"Raising the minimum wage means raising cost of living across the entire board.
If the feds raise the minimum wage, I will demand a raise at my own job, as my money will become worth less, and my buying power will decrease with my current wage."
And they will just say no. So really it's only increasing what the low end make, right?
I'm in a lucky scenario in which my employer agrees with our views, and actually will raise my wage, along with the cost of our service being passed on to our customers.
We are all agreed luckily. But a leftist corporation definitely won't do this. It's all a big move for mega corps like Amazon to destroy their competition.
Not in the way that you are implying. Yeah they (those making min wage) may take home more numbers per hour on paper, but their living expenses get increased thanks to the natural inflation in all goods and services caused by requiring a higher minimum wage.
So really what happens is those that were making a little bit more than whatever the new minimum wage is and weren't fortunate enough to get a raise relative to the increase in minimum wage...are getting fucked with no lube because their relative purchasing power just decreased.
And that's before considering those people whose positions and hours get cut due to rising payroll expenses.
Minimum wage increases literally creates more people that are considered to be in poverty or the lower class thanks to the above factors.
Less paid hours, less purchasing power per dollar.
Also, as other have noted, it creates a black market for illegal labor (who are non taxpayers) that increase competition for goods, services, and housing. And who cause an increase in tax rates to keep the welfare programs that they also abuse solvent.
So it ends up at minimum a triple whammy spiked and splintered baseball bat sodomizing of the middle and lower classes.
Uniparty theatre
GOP probably won't back it either
This how the uniparty works. Pay attention. The GOP have now agreed to raising minimum wage and pretending "you win" by saying it's only if they ensure worker legality.
In reality workers should be legal and there shouldn't be a minimum wage. This isn't a winning bill, it's a losing bill.
And then the left will legalize all the workers. Minimum wage bump and tons of cheap labor that industry can make work off the clock hours plus unlimited justification for continued D election fraud.
Businesses are required to ensure worker legality RIGHT NOW.
It's against the law for an American company to employ an illegal alien.
What the fuck is this? Follow the laws already on the fucking books. It's ALREADY THERE. Tell the executive branches to fucking enforce them
Exactly! Why are they giving away 10$ mw to get something we already fucking have?
Damn strait! I’ve seen this exact game before with the motor voter law, lawyers will say you can’t ask if someone is a citizen. So mitt and cotton want to raise the min wage and then say they were betrayed by the democrats.
Why didn’t they do this when they were in charge?
Exactly, just for show!
Even Republicans wouldn't go for that. They love illegals just as much as the Dems do! The only difference being Republicans want to keep them illegal for cheap labor and Dems want to give them citizenship and benefits while making them immune to taxation and criminal prosecution.
They want to make them citizens so they vote and collect welfare. They want a generation of government dependent drones who think the Democrat Party is their savior and the only thing keeping them fed.
The government wants people to fear them, when it should be the other way around.
It's Romney. Fuck Romney.
I saw that too. If I had to pick $10 min wage or $15. I'd go for $10. However, because it's "the other party" it will never be agreed to. GOP needs to market this $10 min wage so when $15 min wage doesn't work out they have this backup plan.
We never get enforcement so this idea can fuck off.
Yep, how many times are they going to get burned on these bargains before they wise up?
Maybe dems go for this, but you can believe some court is going to swoop in and declare everify can't be used regardless of this deal, and we'll be stuck with a 10$ minimum wage until they get it to 15 or more.
Isn't it already illegal to be hiring aliens? Maybe enforce existing law and stop tying it to economically damaging minimum wage hikes? It's like giving away to leftist issues only to "gain" stuff you already have.
Republicans: Ensure worker legality
Dems: Enact Universal amnesty
Americans: are you kidding?
Remember the Hearing Protection act? Remember how RINOs were willing to attach "fix NICS" to it as a good-faith* compromise with the left?
Remember how HPA was scrapped and we got Fix NICS anyway?
RINOs think "compromise" means giving the enemy what they want in return for nothing.
Nope. No minimum wage. Sick of this clown show and political theater.
Now THAT is the right doing their job... That's what's called working across the isle and fighting back even on their terms!!!
This is shit. Like the nra taking away bump stocks. Republicans should come out and try to remove the federal minimum wage with a Milton friedman clip
Bold of you to assume that most Americans could properly understand a clip of Milton Friedman.
They should be required to ensure employee legality regardless. Hire an undocumented or illegal? Your business is closed down.
Reasonable compromise. The shocking part is Romney. Thought he'd have no problem with illegal immigrants being here.
Until Traitor Joe makes all of them legal....
mandatory e-verify!
Forgot! How about those people getting paid under the table! Lol
“Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.”
― Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy
LOVE IT!
Thats a lot more reasonable than $15/hr, which is exactly why it has zero chance of passing. People on the left don’t care about logic, reasoning, practicality, logistics, etc... they just think you can fire up the money printers with no consequences.
No.
We shouldn't be making any compromises. That's the problem. We compromise too much.
Let their minimum wage bill die on the senate floor. Don't try to compromise or meet in the middle. It's all or nothing. We need to be as ruthless as them or we will never be on equal ground.
Blue states just wouldn't enforce the legallity part.
Where were these losers when they had power and could’ve made the same show, but actually affected change?
Empty virtue signal to us. They no damn well it won't pass, that's why they waited till now to introduce it. They're just playing the usual games.
“GOP Conservatism is just liberalism at a lower speed” Michael Malice
You're talking about a group of people that claim Cristhian Bahena Rivera is the victim.
Minimum wage has fuck-all to do with covid.
This sounds like a big deal but I don't think it is. Businesses are already supposed to do this but there are workarounds. A business can't be relied upon to identify "brilliant" counterfeit documents. This feels like them putting on a show that doesn't really change anything to justify going along. Disappointing
We should stop compromising! Fuck them.
Minimum wage shouldn't be raised at all. If we compromise at 10 it will take all of 20 seconds for them to turn around and demand 20 dollars an our waiting for us to compromise.
We have already compromised to much.
INB4 "GOP's proposal is absolutely RAYCIS!!"
screw Romney trying to look like he's doing something for the people, it's a moot gesture since the dems already said $15 to repay their voters, they well think it's a pay cut from those cheep ass republicans, he should have said $1,500 an hour only to democrat voters it would pass in a heart beat
How about we just enforce the fucking existing laws and arrest and actually DEPORT the tens of millions of economic terrorists/foreign invaders already here instead? More bullshit do nothing showmanship from the "republican" wing of the uniparty. Sadly, this will keep more than enough dipshits cheering and "voting" for the republicans for no good reason.
I'm OK with a $10 minimum wage.... until 2025 when Trump takes the reigns again and abolishes federal minimum wage but keeps worker legality.
Otherwise, federal minimum wage should be abolished.
Mitt has dementia. He has been told to shut the fuck up by everyone and he is still talking.
And the Republicans in Congress still haven't learned to not give the Communists anything. They wanna work with the other side of the aisle. When I'm in Congress, and I will be running sometime soon, there's no way in hell I'll be working with the other side of the aisle as long as the other side of the aisle is full of people who want to destroy America.
The "They win some. We win some" Republicans are the death of the country. Fight, you spineless pieces of shit.
Most Republicans in Congress would not go for this either.
Make it $22 and you got a deal
Why aren't they REQUIRED TO ENSURE WORKER LEGALITY ALREADY?