Social Security shouldn't exist and is theft. FDRs legacy should be tarnished for pushing these bullshit programs.
Let me keep my money and save it how I see fit. With the amount I'll pay in I could retire a multi millionaire. The government got involved and made social security useless.
and for the record - i'd rather not pay in to social security and get no benefit... i think we'd be better off keeping the 12.4% for ourselves (6.2% paid by you 6.2% paid by your employer)
SS is a pay as you go system. Your "contributions" are spent when they are made; a worker's contributions pay retirees at the time allowing workers to enjoy the benefits of lower taxes and lower deficits.
With the average retiree collecting more than they paid, with extended lifetimes, and with fewer workers per retiree it is a ponzi that is one more unsustainable thing that is working to destroy the monetary system.
Social security is meant to cover food, toiletries and misc household expenses. if you pay rent or have a mortgage on social security.. you made some mistakes
What you are saying is that a retired person should own a home and have it paid off. But what percentage of retirees actually own a home outright with no mortgage?
survey by American Financing, a national mortgage banker, found 44 percent of Americans age 60 to 70 have a mortgage when they retire.
I wonder what percentage don't own a home at all.
I think you are overestimating how many Americans responsibly plan for their retirement. The OP makes a good point. If a demoKKKrat wants to cry about minimum wage or "livable wages" then ask then why they setup a social security system that yields a low return, is unfunded, is technically bankrupt, and pays a low monthly check each month?
I'm totally against social security and believe there should be no minimum wage at all. But you have to use a demoKKKrat's own argument and contradictions against them because they are frequently inconsistent. They do not hold principles. Their ideology is full of double standards, inconsistencies and hypocrisies. It's an easy way to foil a demoKKKrat in a debate assuming that they have any grasp on logic at all.
disability isn't same thing and i've never met a single person saying we shouldn't help disabled people... SSN is you getting paid now that you've reached that age and have put x $'s in
The financial markets are a massive bubble, if you are maxing out your 401k and it is your primary retirement strategy you will likely lose everything.
The true wealth of the system is what the US produces...the US produces ~4T of goods a year (food, manufactured goods, raw materials). We consume ~6T of goods a year.
The US financial markets are ~$100T, unfunded liabilities are ~$180T, the US denominated derivatives are ~$600T....Over the long term the true value of these financial "assets" is set by the $-2T/yr net production (deficit).
How do you reconcile the inequality between $-2T/yr in goods production with ~900T in financial assets that people think can be used to buy the stuff they need?
It is reconciles by financial assets dropping by 1000X or more likely real inflation increasing the price of goods by 1000X.
Either way those that hold a 401K through this process will likely lose everything
Social security is the biggest scam on the planet.
Government takes you money and give you negative growth but a guaranteed return.
Vs. the private sector where you invest, get a modest return (can even get low guaranteed returns), you create an asset, you can liquidate the asset, you can barrow against the asset, and most importantly you can pass that asset to heirs.
Like paying in $12k per year. That compound annually in a fixed 6% (low) product over 35 years is like $1.6 million.
Vs. taking the max SS at 65 and living to 85 paying out $4k a month or $900k.
Literally lose $700k with SS and that is on the low end with 6% return. 🤦🏼♂️
and the overall fund would likely be worth at least $1,000,000 in value....which you get to keep (give to your kids or something else or simply take the money out.
The market usually recovers fairly quickly. People who held through the great depression would have been fine. In 2000 anyone buying the nasdaq 100 at a PE ratio of 200 deserved their losses. Today's market is expensive, but it's no where near past bubbles.
I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but the "minimum" amount you have listed for SS recipients is over twice what I receive a month. And no...I don't have any other source of income.
Looks like my work history was too spotty to make the retirement minimum. I worked a lot as a contractor and might have screwed the pooch.
Doesn't really matter, I saved my money over the years. I don't owe anyone anything, public or private. I own my own land outright and live off grid. No family, unless you count my dog. (I do)
So... I'm not bitching, just never had heard of a minimum dollar amount program, or what the requirements are.
I can't remember the last time I saw a teenager working a fast food job. If you live in a city or even most suburbs, the teenage burger flipper hasn't been around in a long time. Those jobs have been the domain of single mothers, unskilled immigrants, and high school dropouts. They are attempting to use these jobs to do things that these jobs were never intended to do: pay rent, feed a family, and provide for a retirement.
These were jobs meant to help new workers build a work history and learn basic workplace skills (i.e. timeliness, team work, and discipline) which would allow them to transition to better jobs within a short period of time. Apparently, lots of millennials who scream about "adulting" could use some time in these jobs.
I can tell you're upset because you lost your cool and couldn't resist the urge to start throwing around epithets and profanity, but people are asking to be stolen from if they've spent their lives voting for charlatans with too-good-to-be-true fairy stories instead of having a grasp on reality and being responsible for themselves. You might enjoy playing the victim card on the internet where you seem to think its worth something, but you can't eat the victim card or burn it to stay warm. The people who have allowed themselves to be stolen from because they imagine they'd get paid back later will eventually learn the hard way about the tangibility of promises. All of the money you have deposited into Social Security has already been spent, you're never going to see a penny of it back, the "Social Security trust fund" is full of nothing but IOUs with your name written as the debtor.
Even worse, those teens getting $2,600/month will cause massive inflation that will see $15/hour equalize to about the same spending power as $8/hour before the raise, but the fixed monthly income of those retirees will now be worth substantially less.
If you paid that much welfare there would be no incentive to work.....
The reality is we should all be working 2 days a week and living like kings in our free time. It can be done but unfortunately the top 1% only believe in redistributing your wealth not theirs.
So imagine I ran a retirement fund. And when you put money in it, your heirs have no right to take money out, and the interest paid on it is less than any other security on the market, and the certificates it buys are not backed by anything other than the trust I will pay it back.
Then imagine I take the money I got from selling you those certificates and effectively spend it all on hookers and blow.
Do you really think that certificate has value, do you really think it will be there for you when you need it?
Devils advocate; the SS payment is supposed to be supplemental to meager retirement as well as ideally you own your house or whatever and don't have a mortgage. ironically I just sold a place in the PNW that cost ~1400 a month in property tax alone
Taxes, I'm making much less than what I'm on because of taxes so even if I were working 40 hours a week I'd probably be making not much more than what the average is for retirees.
Honestly, fuck social security. Boomers pissed away every freedom we had and raided the entire social security budget several times. You don't deserve that shit and you never actually paid into it. You only borrowed against it. Also, boomers shipped the jobs overseas that future generations were supposed to be paying their social security money with. Cry me a river old man. And it's used to beat conservatives over the head with. Just another way we got sold out to the commies.
One of the Norwegian countries actually has an interesting way of solving this problem. They make the payouts variable and simply match 100% of the funds received (through social security taxes) to the funds paid out to beneficiaries. So during periods of time when the economy is booming, retirees get more money but during the recessions the payouts decrease. The end result is the system never goes bankrupt and if retirees want more money they need to convince the working class folks to support a social security tax increase.
kudos for them. In the US politicians get elected by promising free shit that no one has to pay for. It will work until they blow up the monetary system then they will all blame someone else.
The only Norwegian country I know of is Norway. (Likewise, the only Swedish country I know is Sweden. And the only Danish country I know is Denmark. And the only Finnish country I know is Finland.)
Gosh I remember when people used to be responsible for themselves! I worked three jobs when I was a teenager! I didn’t even own a car until I was 27? It might be my white privilege! Not sure.
People don't need to live past 65 bigot.
Go figure. Most people that live past 65 are straight white cis male neo nazis
And according to Liberals... they need to die.
...And Andrew Cuomo
That is the stupidest thing I have heard today. Good job, so far you're winning today's biggest idiot of the day award.
Yea, I guess I should have put a /s on that for morons that don't know what sarcasm is.
Straight over your head. Shitty meme also. You figure hrs per wk times weeks per year only to divide by months. You must be a libtard.
How would you have calculated the math?
I would have used the same formula the OP did.
He would've multiplied the weekly wage by 4 to get the monthly. Which is the wrong way to calculate.
Either do what OP did or multiply weekly wage by 4.333
Since not every month has 4 weeks, this is the most accurate way of doing it. It gives you the average monthly amount.
12 x 4 =48, 5 x 12 = 60. Neither equals 52 weeks.
Just some simple math for you.
Weekly pay x 4.33
Or weekly pay x 52 ÷ 12
Your def showing me "simple"
"Your def showing me "simple""
Sorry. Your "simple" math gives the wrong answer.
15 x 40 x 4.33 = 2,598
(15 x 40 x 52) / 12 = 2,600
Not the same. Your math, weekly pay x 4.33 does not give you the average monthly pay.
2 + 2 does not equal 5.
BTW it is you're not your.
Social Security shouldn't exist and is theft. FDRs legacy should be tarnished for pushing these bullshit programs.
Let me keep my money and save it how I see fit. With the amount I'll pay in I could retire a multi millionaire. The government got involved and made social security useless.
Ss is not welfare, it’s not a hand out, that is liberal bs.
Ss is based on wages earned by working all your life for da man, so he can give your money to idiots flipping burgers.
it's a ponzi scheme
worse than ponzi scheme - everyone loses - no one wins, not even the schemers
Agreed
It is welfare. Nearly everyone gets more out than they paid in (yes, that is accounting for the time value of money and the return it would've made)
untrue... that was only true for very elderly people now... I will never get back what I've paid in if I live to 200
and for the record - i'd rather not pay in to social security and get no benefit... i think we'd be better off keeping the 12.4% for ourselves (6.2% paid by you 6.2% paid by your employer)
SS is a pay as you go system. Your "contributions" are spent when they are made; a worker's contributions pay retirees at the time allowing workers to enjoy the benefits of lower taxes and lower deficits.
With the average retiree collecting more than they paid, with extended lifetimes, and with fewer workers per retiree it is a ponzi that is one more unsustainable thing that is working to destroy the monetary system.
Raped from my paycheck for 50 years... DOUBLE if you were self employed.
50 years ago the DOW was 750,
There's NO money left in the SS "Trust Fund", only FED I.O.U.s. They stole every dime.
Greenspan, circa 1995: "I can guarantee every eligible person will get a check,
I just can't guarantee what it will buy." (printed money to replace actual stolen money)
Social security is meant to cover food, toiletries and misc household expenses. if you pay rent or have a mortgage on social security.. you made some mistakes
What you are saying is that a retired person should own a home and have it paid off. But what percentage of retirees actually own a home outright with no mortgage?
i believe high 80%
survey by American Financing, a national mortgage banker, found 44 percent of Americans age 60 to 70 have a mortgage when they retire.
I wonder what percentage don't own a home at all.
I think you are overestimating how many Americans responsibly plan for their retirement. The OP makes a good point. If a demoKKKrat wants to cry about minimum wage or "livable wages" then ask then why they setup a social security system that yields a low return, is unfunded, is technically bankrupt, and pays a low monthly check each month?
I'm totally against social security and believe there should be no minimum wage at all. But you have to use a demoKKKrat's own argument and contradictions against them because they are frequently inconsistent. They do not hold principles. Their ideology is full of double standards, inconsistencies and hypocrisies. It's an easy way to foil a demoKKKrat in a debate assuming that they have any grasp on logic at all.
Of you're disabled. Demonizing the poor is one of the most obnoxious and politically stupid approaches.
disability isn't same thing and i've never met a single person saying we shouldn't help disabled people... SSN is you getting paid now that you've reached that age and have put x $'s in
SSDI is Social Security Disability Insurance
Never rely on social security... If you aren't maxing a 401k you're probably not putting enough
The financial markets are a massive bubble, if you are maxing out your 401k and it is your primary retirement strategy you will likely lose everything.
The true wealth of the system is what the US produces...the US produces ~4T of goods a year (food, manufactured goods, raw materials). We consume ~6T of goods a year.
The US financial markets are ~$100T, unfunded liabilities are ~$180T, the US denominated derivatives are ~$600T....Over the long term the true value of these financial "assets" is set by the $-2T/yr net production (deficit).
How do you reconcile the inequality between $-2T/yr in goods production with ~900T in financial assets that people think can be used to buy the stuff they need? It is reconciles by financial assets dropping by 1000X or more likely real inflation increasing the price of goods by 1000X.
Either way those that hold a 401K through this process will likely lose everything
Social Security was never supposed to be a pension.
Social security is the biggest scam on the planet.
Government takes you money and give you negative growth but a guaranteed return.
Vs. the private sector where you invest, get a modest return (can even get low guaranteed returns), you create an asset, you can liquidate the asset, you can barrow against the asset, and most importantly you can pass that asset to heirs.
Like paying in $12k per year. That compound annually in a fixed 6% (low) product over 35 years is like $1.6 million.
Vs. taking the max SS at 65 and living to 85 paying out $4k a month or $900k.
Literally lose $700k with SS and that is on the low end with 6% return. 🤦🏼♂️
If the money taken from me for SS had gone into a simple index fund instead, I'd be getting several thousand dollars a month when I turn 65.
and the overall fund would likely be worth at least $1,000,000 in value....which you get to keep (give to your kids or something else or simply take the money out.
More like $3.5 million.
EDIT: I have done the math.
Not when the market crashes as it always does.
The market usually recovers fairly quickly. People who held through the great depression would have been fine. In 2000 anyone buying the nasdaq 100 at a PE ratio of 200 deserved their losses. Today's market is expensive, but it's no where near past bubbles.
I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but the "minimum" amount you have listed for SS recipients is over twice what I receive a month. And no...I don't have any other source of income.
That's the point.
If demoKKKrats claim you need $2,600 a month to "live" then why are they paying retired people much less than that?
Won't pry, but you're not a usual recipient in terms of amount. Maybe you didn't work 10 quarters with deductions?
https://pocketsense.com/minimum-maximum-benefits-social-security-7737205.html
Looks like my work history was too spotty to make the retirement minimum. I worked a lot as a contractor and might have screwed the pooch.
Doesn't really matter, I saved my money over the years. I don't owe anyone anything, public or private. I own my own land outright and live off grid. No family, unless you count my dog. (I do)
So... I'm not bitching, just never had heard of a minimum dollar amount program, or what the requirements are.
Thanks.
I can't remember the last time I saw a teenager working a fast food job. If you live in a city or even most suburbs, the teenage burger flipper hasn't been around in a long time. Those jobs have been the domain of single mothers, unskilled immigrants, and high school dropouts. They are attempting to use these jobs to do things that these jobs were never intended to do: pay rent, feed a family, and provide for a retirement.
These were jobs meant to help new workers build a work history and learn basic workplace skills (i.e. timeliness, team work, and discipline) which would allow them to transition to better jobs within a short period of time. Apparently, lots of millennials who scream about "adulting" could use some time in these jobs.
gibes me dat reparation muggufugguh
If you work for 50 years and have a shit load of taxes stolen from you every week for SS, you deserve SS when you retire you stupid ass clown.
I can tell you're upset because you lost your cool and couldn't resist the urge to start throwing around epithets and profanity, but people are asking to be stolen from if they've spent their lives voting for charlatans with too-good-to-be-true fairy stories instead of having a grasp on reality and being responsible for themselves. You might enjoy playing the victim card on the internet where you seem to think its worth something, but you can't eat the victim card or burn it to stay warm. The people who have allowed themselves to be stolen from because they imagine they'd get paid back later will eventually learn the hard way about the tangibility of promises. All of the money you have deposited into Social Security has already been spent, you're never going to see a penny of it back, the "Social Security trust fund" is full of nothing but IOUs with your name written as the debtor.
Even worse, those teens getting $2,600/month will cause massive inflation that will see $15/hour equalize to about the same spending power as $8/hour before the raise, but the fixed monthly income of those retirees will now be worth substantially less.
Because then they would have to put back the money they have stolen from Social Security through the years
This is meant to, not just to stiffle, but to destroy our society.
If you paid that much welfare there would be no incentive to work.....
The reality is we should all be working 2 days a week and living like kings in our free time. It can be done but unfortunately the top 1% only believe in redistributing your wealth not theirs.
So imagine I ran a retirement fund. And when you put money in it, your heirs have no right to take money out, and the interest paid on it is less than any other security on the market, and the certificates it buys are not backed by anything other than the trust I will pay it back.
Then imagine I take the money I got from selling you those certificates and effectively spend it all on hookers and blow.
Do you really think that certificate has value, do you really think it will be there for you when you need it?
Insofar as the U.S. Government has a shred of power and integrity. Fiat currency.
You should plan you financial future as if you wont get any SS at all.
Personally, I wish I could opt out of SS all together, I get everything I paid in. I dont contribute anymore and I dont get retirement payments.
I xan get a better ROI investing the money myself.
Maybe. Or you have a health crisis that wiped you out financially and leaves you almost unemployable. And the stock market will crash.
This will eventually happen, unless you get hit by a truck and die crossing the road.
The same could be said about military retirees.
I like the logic. But I don't know what the fuck I'm looking at.
Math is racist! /s
Those burger flippers have to worry about their iphone bill
Are the numbers with social security that high? I thought it was only like $330 / month
Yup. My dad is retired on social security and he gets $2,200 per month
It’s not gonna happen boyo, Don’t worry. Even they aren’t that stupid. As somebody that had made 15 an hour it’s closer to 1,600 a month.
Devils advocate; the SS payment is supposed to be supplemental to meager retirement as well as ideally you own your house or whatever and don't have a mortgage. ironically I just sold a place in the PNW that cost ~1400 a month in property tax alone
If you haven't saved by 65 that's on you.
Taxes, I'm making much less than what I'm on because of taxes so even if I were working 40 hours a week I'd probably be making not much more than what the average is for retirees.
You know that social security is considered income ? In fact if your combined income breaks $34,000 85% of your social security can be taxed..
that's fucked
More burger flippers will vote Democrat
Ssshhhhhhh! Don’t give them any ideas
Honestly, fuck social security. Boomers pissed away every freedom we had and raided the entire social security budget several times. You don't deserve that shit and you never actually paid into it. You only borrowed against it. Also, boomers shipped the jobs overseas that future generations were supposed to be paying their social security money with. Cry me a river old man. And it's used to beat conservatives over the head with. Just another way we got sold out to the commies.
One of the Norwegian countries actually has an interesting way of solving this problem. They make the payouts variable and simply match 100% of the funds received (through social security taxes) to the funds paid out to beneficiaries. So during periods of time when the economy is booming, retirees get more money but during the recessions the payouts decrease. The end result is the system never goes bankrupt and if retirees want more money they need to convince the working class folks to support a social security tax increase.
kudos for them. In the US politicians get elected by promising free shit that no one has to pay for. It will work until they blow up the monetary system then they will all blame someone else.
>One of the Norwegian countries
Which one?
The only Norwegian country I know of is Norway. (Likewise, the only Swedish country I know is Sweden. And the only Danish country I know is Denmark. And the only Finnish country I know is Finland.)
Finland does not exist! It's a conspiracy theory!
Gosh I remember when people used to be responsible for themselves! I worked three jobs when I was a teenager! I didn’t even own a car until I was 27? It might be my white privilege! Not sure.
What are your sources?
https://pocketsense.com/minimum-maximum-benefits-social-security-7737205.html
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2020/12/13/heres-the-average-social-security-benefit-by-age/
Interesting, thanks.
Exactly my sentiment...