A common phrase I hear is "Don't waste your time debating a liberal/leftist."
The reason why I think it is completely worth talking is because I was a Democrat voter. I changed.
If someone would have talked with me in more depth EARLIER, I would have changed even EARLIER than I did.
What would have changed me sooner? Asking me what I thought. Taking an interest in me. Answering my questions in a straight forward and fact based way.
I grew up only hearing the Democrat's perspective. How could I even consider voting Republican if no one had ever even explained another perspective and how it relates to me and my life?
The truth is on our side and I think we do a disservice to the cause when we are not willing to engage. I know there are crazy people that you should walk away from but the vast majority are not crazy and are interested in listening -- I certainly was.
Talking openly also gives courage to people who agree with you but simply don't know how to put their positions in to words. Remaining silent gives the entire public domain court (where culture is formed) to the enemy with zero resistance.
Thank you.
Can you give me advice. How do you argue:
Capitalism vs. Socialism
What do you say when personally attacked.
When someone asks why you voted Trump, what do you say? Thank you.
I ignore personal attacks, but bring the conversation back from red herrings, and don't let them redefine my point with a straw man. (Edit) I will call out logical fallacies, either directly if they would know the word "strawman," or indirectly with "that isn't what I said" / "that isn't what I believe" / etc.
For some points, like marxism vs capitalism, the problem is a disagreement at a foundational level. I only argued that a few times with a transgender communist that I know from university days, and I think he is genuine, so I gave him honest answers.
The core problem is a misunderstanding of human nature; if marxist philosophy is correct, then socialism and communism works. Of course, marxist philosophy is false, as it is based on the idea that people are innately pure and good, and thus in a good society people will work hard for the good of others with no concern for themselves.
Reality, as every person who lives in the real world has seen, is that people are naturally selfish. While some might selflessly help others in situations, they aren't going to work long hours on a difficult job if the reward is the same as working an easy job. Not everyone equally values hard work, so when they start mixing in a socialist society, one group becomes a drag, and eventually every other group drops to the bottom level of production. If this wasn't obvious from simple life experience, we now have many examples over 100 years of how productivity drops in truly marxist societies.
Still, all the points against socialism fail to make an impact if the person refuses to accept absolute truth, and the natural human proclivity towards selfishness. Socialism vs capitalism is a higher level arguement that makes little progress if a person disagrees with axiomatic truths. These people typically think supply and demand is a capitalist construct, when it clearly is an immutable law of human nature, even existing in marxist societies via the black market.
So on socialism verses capitalism*, I point out that it is a pointless discussion to have unless they can agree on issues pertaining to absolute truth and human nature, as that is actually what the disagreement is about.
Thank you!
I can easily debate Communism vs. Capitalism. But, Socialism is much harder.
Do you argue that Socialism is Communism (and always leads to it).
The socialists say they just want the rich to pay 1% more so everyone can have free healthcare. They also say social security works just fine, Medicare works just fine, etc.
The same philosophical faults underpin all forms of marxism. They deny absolute truth, and deny humans are selfish by nature. Statistics are being hidden, but the same productivity drop is hitting Europe now.
As for their goals, those are all completely impossible; a 1% tax will not support universal Healthcare. I don't think taxing the top 10% an extra 10% would pay for universal healthcare. Social security and Medicare will soon have no money, so they don't work fine.
These are people who think Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk have tens of billions of dollars in a bank account or something; they honestly think they can just make them pay 20 billion dollars in taxes each and solve healthcare, not understanding their wealth is in stock, and that liquidating large amounts could crash the whole economy.
But again, they live in fairy tale land, so these arguements make no dent in their thick armor of ignorance. The problem is that they deny that the human soul is natural source of selfishness, and that it is good parenting and society that steers a person in the right direction. Many even deny laziness being a problem; Karl Marx himself was known to be a very lazy man, so it is no surprise his follower too are lazy and make external excuses for their self serving unproductiveness.