To be fair, good sights/optic on a mediocre rifle is better than cheap sights/optic on a good rifle.
Not saying the MP is a bad rifle by any means, just a lot of people tend to sink all their money into the rifle itself then cheap out on the part that actually lets you shoot the thing accurately.
Not to pick apart what you’re saying cuz I agree overall, but as long as it isn’t some Chinese piece of junk, any budget red dot will work fine. Benefits to higher end aren’t accuracy but better glass, durability, battery life, etc.
Hell there's plenty of American-made Amazon budget junk. Even with supposedly "made in USA" goods, half of the time the components are partially foreign in origin because a lot of this stuff we simply don't make here anymore or at all (i.e. most LED lights).
Don't disagree, but we're getting pretty literal when I was just speaking generally. Personally I don't buy Chinese products anyway, even if they're well made, at least as far as gun products are concerned. All my optics are U.S. German and Japanese.
What I read was: “Find me a superior product, that wasn’t made with slave labor and not made by an enemy.”
I am supposed to make a comparison akin to the product of a drug dealer on the streets and what a pharmacist can give you and you are going to sell me that the drug dealer has a superior product at a better price? Lol, fuck you, Chinese shill.
I'm not aware of any American made optics. There are basically three major manufacturers, a fourth if you want to count Germany, in China, the Philipppines & Japan & most scopes on the market are made in the same factories in one of those 3 countries and rebranded to some extent to the customer's slightly different specifications. The Chinese PA scope looks a lot like the Athalon Chinese scope in construction, for example. Rinse and repeat. Check out the Dark Lord of Optics youtub chanel if you must.
There are THREE types of optics to put on a duty rifle: Aimpoint, Trijicon, and Elcan. Eotech falls into the "if you are truly broke and also found it on sale" category that just barely flies.
EVERYTHING ELSE is shit.
They WILL break when you bump them. You WILL be left with no optics in a life-and-death situation. If you can afford the rifle then save another week, month, or however long it takes in the event that you're scraping pennies of the floor of a public fucking bathroom, but buy a real optic and stop lying to yourself about the Good Enough garbage.
US Optics, Steiner, Kahle's, Swarovski, Zeiss, Nightforce, Vortex Razor line, Leupold Mark Series... I think you need to expand your horizons a bit bud.
EoTech holographic sights are literally the best holographic sights on the market.
They are durable AF, give a true 1 MOA dot regardless of magnification, and their only real downside is battery life. A spare set of batteries weighs almost nothing.
If you're being specific to holographics I suppose, I prefer Aimpoint over Eotech personally, but I also have an EXPS-3 too. I hear some people with astigmatism prefer PA for their prism scopes.
Ha, "fell of the truck" did it? I usually sell or trade most of my old parts and don't really have any old collectibles like that. Nothing cool anyway.
A 12x+ scope isn't a duty rifle optic, that's a specialty application weapon; don't confuse the two. If you're talking something that's going to get slammed around in the course of use, no, none of that shit is appropriate.
If you're specifically referring to what gets issued to grunts ok, but almost every one of the brands I listed has military/LEO contracts on some level, and are absolutely built to get slammed around. Only very large caliber platforms are going to need something starting at 12 power. Most regular LVPOs are 1-6/8x and midrange are typically 2/3-14x or higher and good for all kinds of platforms.
That's cute, my $1400 brand new Trijicon was a lemon right out of the box. After 3 months of waiting they finally shipped me an upgraded model to replace it.
100% this. I have a mediocre rifle (by comparison to expensive ones); and a good optic, and I feel just fine about my ability to aim accurately. The rifle doesn't make the shots, the person and the skill does.
I have shot a lot of “AR-15” platform guns, “mediocre” is all in people’s head really. Sure some of the gear queer ceramic coated shit looks nice with all their bells and whistles, with better fit and finish, but for realistic applications, they all shoot “the same”. Performance is a game of diminished returns in relation to cost. A good optic is the single most important investment to a gun, next to actually practicing with it.
One time in high school I was at a New Year's Eve party and my neighbor invited a bunch of theater kids he was friends with. It turns out fags are a lot of fun to party with. They love drinking to blackout, doing coke, fighting, breaking shit and lots of other fun things. Late in the night I tried to find an empty bedroom to pass out in and I opened a door to find three men fucking each other. One very hairy one was fucking a chubby twink in the ass while the twink was blowing the third one who seemed to have done too much coke and couldn't get hard. I closed the door and went back to drinking in a failed attempt to erase that memory and that was the gayest thing I had ever seen until I saw that trigger lock on your gun.
Yep does precisely nothing. Only a boomer fudd wouldn't realize their kid can just google how to defeat it (gun locks are notorious for critical security flaws). Just teach your kids about the guns and they won't feel the compulsion to fuck with them.
I recommend getting 10 round pmags if youre looking to comply as well as have consistently reliable magazines. I’ve found that other brand’s 10 rounders, 10/30s, or neutered standard cap mags can be hit or miss with the magazine seating fully into the lower correctly.
My philosophy is is "guns last forever, so spend a little more and get the one you want, because if you don't, you're stuck with a gun you don't like... forever"
IMO mods should put out a PSA that all Gunday photos have meta data removed (you can do this on a mac with ImageOptim) and that any identifying numbers be removed as well (either with photoshop or take it from the other side)
Hey I have a Sport 2 and the accuracy and predictability went way up when I got rid of that FSB and plastic handguard and replaced them with a proper free float handguard and a low profile gas block.
So when you start looking for that rail, do yourself a favor and get a free float one.
I used a Troy handguard but I probably wouldn’t get it again, due to their hiring practices, but there’s lots of good handguard out there. I have an EOTech 512 and a 3x magnifier on the rifle and it puts rounds in the same hole inside 100yds, from a bench, at least. The gun shoots better than me for sure.
trigger lock = safety first? Fucking fag ass government enforced locks get people killed. You need to keep your shit in ready to fire condition. Fucking dummy.
Only complaint is the stupid Forward assist. Only purpose I ever found for it was to get snagged on more shit or some dumb Joe making a jam worse. Other than that they are good rifles for the range you can get from 5.56👍
To be fair, good sights/optic on a mediocre rifle is better than cheap sights/optic on a good rifle.
Not saying the MP is a bad rifle by any means, just a lot of people tend to sink all their money into the rifle itself then cheap out on the part that actually lets you shoot the thing accurately.
Not to pick apart what you’re saying cuz I agree overall, but as long as it isn’t some Chinese piece of junk, any budget red dot will work fine. Benefits to higher end aren’t accuracy but better glass, durability, battery life, etc.
Chinese made does not necessarily equate to junk. Primary Arms is a superior budget optic to most of the cheaper American-made ones.
Yeah, and there's also Athlon, Holosun, etc. I'm more referring to Amazon budget junk.
Hell there's plenty of American-made Amazon budget junk. Even with supposedly "made in USA" goods, half of the time the components are partially foreign in origin because a lot of this stuff we simply don't make here anymore or at all (i.e. most LED lights).
Don't disagree, but we're getting pretty literal when I was just speaking generally. Personally I don't buy Chinese products anyway, even if they're well made, at least as far as gun products are concerned. All my optics are U.S. German and Japanese.
Yet they all most likely have Chinese-sourced components even then.
Nope. Manufacturing is either in-house or Japan.
Lol, wut?
Do you need an Engrish dictionary?
Fuck outta here with your Chinese salesmanship.
Quit being such a feckless cunt. Find me a 100% (actually 100%) American-made red dot that is superior for the same price.
What I read was: “Find me a superior product, that wasn’t made with slave labor and not made by an enemy.”
I am supposed to make a comparison akin to the product of a drug dealer on the streets and what a pharmacist can give you and you are going to sell me that the drug dealer has a superior product at a better price? Lol, fuck you, Chinese shill.
Alot of brand name stuff is made in China
Leupold is one (I believe just their gold ring scopes). Redfield is another.
As for construction similarities, they all basically look the same regardless of where they're made. The general layout hasn't changed much in years.
I'm not aware of any American made optics. There are basically three major manufacturers, a fourth if you want to count Germany, in China, the Philipppines & Japan & most scopes on the market are made in the same factories in one of those 3 countries and rebranded to some extent to the customer's slightly different specifications. The Chinese PA scope looks a lot like the Athalon Chinese scope in construction, for example. Rinse and repeat. Check out the Dark Lord of Optics youtub chanel if you must.
There are THREE types of optics to put on a duty rifle: Aimpoint, Trijicon, and Elcan. Eotech falls into the "if you are truly broke and also found it on sale" category that just barely flies.
EVERYTHING ELSE is shit.
They WILL break when you bump them. You WILL be left with no optics in a life-and-death situation. If you can afford the rifle then save another week, month, or however long it takes in the event that you're scraping pennies of the floor of a public fucking bathroom, but buy a real optic and stop lying to yourself about the Good Enough garbage.
US Optics, Steiner, Kahle's, Swarovski, Zeiss, Nightforce, Vortex Razor line, Leupold Mark Series... I think you need to expand your horizons a bit bud.
EoTech holographic sights are literally the best holographic sights on the market.
They are durable AF, give a true 1 MOA dot regardless of magnification, and their only real downside is battery life. A spare set of batteries weighs almost nothing.
If you're being specific to holographics I suppose, I prefer Aimpoint over Eotech personally, but I also have an EXPS-3 too. I hear some people with astigmatism prefer PA for their prism scopes.
I have a very old EoTech 553 from the GWOT that still fucks to this very day.
Ha, "fell of the truck" did it? I usually sell or trade most of my old parts and don't really have any old collectibles like that. Nothing cool anyway.
A 12x+ scope isn't a duty rifle optic, that's a specialty application weapon; don't confuse the two. If you're talking something that's going to get slammed around in the course of use, no, none of that shit is appropriate.
If you're specifically referring to what gets issued to grunts ok, but almost every one of the brands I listed has military/LEO contracts on some level, and are absolutely built to get slammed around. Only very large caliber platforms are going to need something starting at 12 power. Most regular LVPOs are 1-6/8x and midrange are typically 2/3-14x or higher and good for all kinds of platforms.
That's cute, my $1400 brand new Trijicon was a lemon right out of the box. After 3 months of waiting they finally shipped me an upgraded model to replace it.
As long as you can pick up your target quick and hit center mass , you’re good to go
100% this. I have a mediocre rifle (by comparison to expensive ones); and a good optic, and I feel just fine about my ability to aim accurately. The rifle doesn't make the shots, the person and the skill does.
I have shot a lot of “AR-15” platform guns, “mediocre” is all in people’s head really. Sure some of the gear queer ceramic coated shit looks nice with all their bells and whistles, with better fit and finish, but for realistic applications, they all shoot “the same”. Performance is a game of diminished returns in relation to cost. A good optic is the single most important investment to a gun, next to actually practicing with it.
I’d rather just be proficient with iron sights honestly.
If you want to hit anything beyond about 100 yards, you need solid fundamentals, regardless of the optics.
I always recommend the 2-day Project Appleseed course.
True... but most engagements are between 50-150 yards.
Source: the Middle East.
Simo Hayha would agree. I shot a deer with an iron sight 30-30 at a 150 yards when I was 13, but it might have been luck.
Good point
Yea I was gonna say... this is Big Brain right here
One time in high school I was at a New Year's Eve party and my neighbor invited a bunch of theater kids he was friends with. It turns out fags are a lot of fun to party with. They love drinking to blackout, doing coke, fighting, breaking shit and lots of other fun things. Late in the night I tried to find an empty bedroom to pass out in and I opened a door to find three men fucking each other. One very hairy one was fucking a chubby twink in the ass while the twink was blowing the third one who seemed to have done too much coke and couldn't get hard. I closed the door and went back to drinking in a failed attempt to erase that memory and that was the gayest thing I had ever seen until I saw that trigger lock on your gun.
I suffered thru your whole post to get to that 😂End
LOL.... worth it.
I fucking laughed out loud for real at this.
Lol. His trigger lock is gayer than three dudes fucking.
If you touched the twink, then I would have to say you are, in fact, gayer than the trigger lock.
Please remove faggot trigger lock, or you are queer. thank you.
And the person that downvoted you is also a queer.
KEK!
thought the same thing . . .
Noted ;)
Yep does precisely nothing. Only a boomer fudd wouldn't realize their kid can just google how to defeat it (gun locks are notorious for critical security flaws). Just teach your kids about the guns and they won't feel the compulsion to fuck with them.
The M&P sport 2 is an amazingly good weapon for the price. There's a melt down video where it fires nearly 1000 round non-stop....no jams.
That video is why I bought a m&p
ditch the punisher mag
Gotcha. I was limited by what was a show since my state passed 10 round limit.
I recommend getting 10 round pmags if youre looking to comply as well as have consistently reliable magazines. I’ve found that other brand’s 10 rounders, 10/30s, or neutered standard cap mags can be hit or miss with the magazine seating fully into the lower correctly.
My philosophy is is "guns last forever, so spend a little more and get the one you want, because if you don't, you're stuck with a gun you don't like... forever"
Or sell it and get what you want
well put pede
Fucking punisher tag on the mags, so many posers. If you don't have the balls to actually be Frank Castle, don't put his emblem on your toys.
Eh tried a Holo sight (EO Tech) when i was in Iraq. Sucked, i went with ACOG sight. Never failed me, most engagments were 50-150 meters.
I love my EOTech!
Lol I bought an EOTECH last year. Really nice!
Noice
Props on the Punisher mag artwork as well.
IMO mods should put out a PSA that all Gunday photos have meta data removed (you can do this on a mac with ImageOptim) and that any identifying numbers be removed as well (either with photoshop or take it from the other side)
Irons cowitness or does the holo body get in the way?
Right now they do but I am planning on railing with a vertical grip. Wife doesn't have to know what I did with my stimulus...
Hey I have a Sport 2 and the accuracy and predictability went way up when I got rid of that FSB and plastic handguard and replaced them with a proper free float handguard and a low profile gas block.
So when you start looking for that rail, do yourself a favor and get a free float one.
I used a Troy handguard but I probably wouldn’t get it again, due to their hiring practices, but there’s lots of good handguard out there. I have an EOTech 512 and a 3x magnifier on the rifle and it puts rounds in the same hole inside 100yds, from a bench, at least. The gun shoots better than me for sure.
This is great advice. Thank you!
Might as well, what the hell.
Only costs twice as much to go first class
Trijicon FTW
You know what?... Iron sights get the job done quite nicely. Everybody anymore seems to think they need the latest and greatest.
Justin Case talks me into going big more than I care to admit, but you can't argue his logic.
I too was considering an Eotech but went with an Aimpoint Pro instead. No regrets.
I like your style dude
Rather be safe than sorry
Not bad. Holos look like the only splurge.
Yep. Next rails and a vertical grip.
Best way to spend a lot is double buy stuff. I don’t like to ever replace a part, if you want a lot of part swaps it’s best to just assemble your own.
punisher skull. lol. Why not a thin blue line flag also? Really suckle that cock
Punisher, check. Trigger lock, check. Safety first.
trigger lock = safety first? Fucking fag ass government enforced locks get people killed. You need to keep your shit in ready to fire condition. Fucking dummy.
Only complaint is the stupid Forward assist. Only purpose I ever found for it was to get snagged on more shit or some dumb Joe making a jam worse. Other than that they are good rifles for the range you can get from 5.56👍