This is why I hesitate to spend a lot of effort "debating" with them. There are exceptions, but usually it's completely pointless. They literally won't listen. It's like their brain starts to explode when confronted with facts and ideas that challenge their own.
They're afraid of verbal conflict because they have no experience, but they're so overwhelmed by how manipulated emotionally they are, they have to blurt something out & challenge you...petrified.
And if they won't listen and engage on your facts, you out-stupid them. You drown them with their own talking points, twisted in the most stupid way you can imagine. Do not relent. Make them cry, make them scream, and then mock them for breaking down. Push them until they break, then step on the pieces.
If you find one who will engage on logic, keep it there, but as soon as they deviate, beat them with their own tactics. Burn the relationship if you have to, just make them feel bad. It's the only thing they will understand.
Many of them have never had facts and never read them. They were just told the facts by trusted sources and never have heard anything else. Then they repeat all smug as if they are right when they know nothing.
Making them read facts ruins their world view.
I got redpilled by people posting facts instead of the lies I just believes and were accepted as true.
My stupid "friend" (possibly not anymore) has been fully vaccinated and so has her husband, but she still fears being around crowds of people because "her kids might get sick." She has no interest in the fact that worrying about a child dying from covid is statistically about as relevant as worrying about them being struck my lightning.
I use to participate in r/ ask a trump supporter a lot and the amount of mental gymnastics they out themselves through is astounding but what is really the moat astounding is what they don't know. For example, I was debating someone about a topic and they tried to claim that mueller states Trump obstructed justice and the mueller report stated it as well. I called him on it saying not only did he not say one way or the other on obstruction the doj reviewed all of the made up instances and said it wasn't obstruction. A bunch of them called bullshit on it so I showed them videos of mueller saying he wasn't saying there was or was not and articles about the doj reviewing it and saying it didn't happen. They had no clue the doj did that. Like literally not even a hint that it happened. Which then this of course led them to more mental gymnastics and then they ran away when I asked them why their news sources never informed them about it.
What I like to do after that moment is ask them why they were so convinced it was a certain way, when it wasn't, and ask them if they either internalize lying naturally as a way of defending the indefensible, or if everyone around them they interact with and every source of information they get is blatantly lying.
I know it's disingenuous, sort of, but I also like when stories get retracted later, because I browbeat them with "That means you were a fucking lying liar for all these months, spewing something that was a total lie. Someone, somewhere, knew it was a lie, and fed it to you because they knew you'd spread their lies for them. All this time, we were right, and you were carrying water for liars, you dishonest vile fork-tongued liar. Why should anything you say ever be believed again?"
I used to be on that side. CNN itself and people on the CNN forums red pilled me and got me to read info instead of just assuming the world worked how I thought it worked.
It might not seem like your doing anything but you are. Can't help all of them but you can get through to the full of themselves intellectuals that read what you say to disprove you.
I kept the fight going in that sub for the people that read but never really commented. Usually the people commenting would never admit they were wrong but someone else might read the thread and see how shit their argument was and tumble down the rabbit hole.
Your not going to get a movie like apology and admission that they were wrong. You will however make them think to themselves and by the time they admit they were wrong they are standing beside you.
The people who redpilled me never got an admission of being wrong from me because being redpilled takes time.
We need to learn to use emotional arguments on leftists.
Im sick of us complaining about how easily manipulated leftists are while not making any effort to manipulate them.
Instead of using facts and data, tell them a story. Leftists weaknesses are disadvantaged people and fairness.
Tell them about someone who came from the bottom. Who worked their ass off at two jobs for 20 years so they could keep the bills paid and have some left to put into savings. Who put it all down on a little spot in a stripmall right down the street from their first house.
Dont skip the little details either. Like the time the car broke down and he took the bus to work for three months. The bus wasnt running after the shift at his second job was over so he walked 5 miles home.
The getting sick without health insurance, because leftists mandated full time workers get coverage so everyones hours got cut and he lost his coverage. Which is why he needed to work 2 jobs now, to cover the hours leftists cost him.
The late nights he spent with his with his wife going over all the expenses and daily sales at the fledgling little business they started. The massive stress of those first few months when customers weren’t coming in yet. The glimmer of hope that kept them going. The pride they felt the first month they turned a profit, meager as it was. Things were looking up.
Then the mob came and smashed out his windows and stole all his merchandise. It didn’t matter that he agreed with them, that he was black, that the insurance company would definitely find a way to weasel out of paying him. They burned his store to the ground and cheered like it was a game.
Hes back at the supermarket now, working those late shifts again. But he isn’t the same anymore. His American dream is gone. And its worse because he came so close. He was at the gate, and they slammed it shut in his face.
When the riots first started, that evening when we saw it on tv, my first thought, which I stated out loud and one of my kids was in the room, was that they were burning their own neighborhood down. What good would that do to anyone that lived there?
Psychological trick i learned when I was young, when your boss comes to reprimand you for something stand next to them, shoulders aligned, instead of across from them.
Subconsciously now you are working on the problem together instead of having a confrontation. Applying that same logic of turning confrontations into collaborations, just toss out a statement of sympathy first.
“I understand their frustration, they have been dealing with corrupt government for decades. But that doesnt make it okay to hurt innocent people, even if its a rich guy who owns a target”
Like another one I heard, if you have to criticize someone, always pay a compliment first. It keeps them from getting defensive and not hearing the message.
This is why I hesitate to spend a lot of effort "debating" with them. There are exceptions, but usually it's completely pointless. They literally won't listen. It's like their brain starts to explode when confronted with facts and ideas that challenge their own.
They're afraid of verbal conflict because they have no experience, but they're so overwhelmed by how manipulated emotionally they are, they have to blurt something out & challenge you...petrified.
Perfect time to destroy them with logic.
Bait them into debating them then you can redpill them with facts.
And if they won't listen and engage on your facts, you out-stupid them. You drown them with their own talking points, twisted in the most stupid way you can imagine. Do not relent. Make them cry, make them scream, and then mock them for breaking down. Push them until they break, then step on the pieces.
If you find one who will engage on logic, keep it there, but as soon as they deviate, beat them with their own tactics. Burn the relationship if you have to, just make them feel bad. It's the only thing they will understand.
Many of them have never had facts and never read them. They were just told the facts by trusted sources and never have heard anything else. Then they repeat all smug as if they are right when they know nothing.
Making them read facts ruins their world view.
I got redpilled by people posting facts instead of the lies I just believes and were accepted as true.
Ding ding ding ding
Lefturds fear truth. They fear anything that interferes with their belief system.
My stupid "friend" (possibly not anymore) has been fully vaccinated and so has her husband, but she still fears being around crowds of people because "her kids might get sick." She has no interest in the fact that worrying about a child dying from covid is statistically about as relevant as worrying about them being struck my lightning.
More like being eaten by a shark riding the lightning.
🤣
I feel like this needs to be made into a sharknado sequel movie
Did you tell her that?
I use to participate in r/ ask a trump supporter a lot and the amount of mental gymnastics they out themselves through is astounding but what is really the moat astounding is what they don't know. For example, I was debating someone about a topic and they tried to claim that mueller states Trump obstructed justice and the mueller report stated it as well. I called him on it saying not only did he not say one way or the other on obstruction the doj reviewed all of the made up instances and said it wasn't obstruction. A bunch of them called bullshit on it so I showed them videos of mueller saying he wasn't saying there was or was not and articles about the doj reviewing it and saying it didn't happen. They had no clue the doj did that. Like literally not even a hint that it happened. Which then this of course led them to more mental gymnastics and then they ran away when I asked them why their news sources never informed them about it.
What I like to do after that moment is ask them why they were so convinced it was a certain way, when it wasn't, and ask them if they either internalize lying naturally as a way of defending the indefensible, or if everyone around them they interact with and every source of information they get is blatantly lying.
I know it's disingenuous, sort of, but I also like when stories get retracted later, because I browbeat them with "That means you were a fucking lying liar for all these months, spewing something that was a total lie. Someone, somewhere, knew it was a lie, and fed it to you because they knew you'd spread their lies for them. All this time, we were right, and you were carrying water for liars, you dishonest vile fork-tongued liar. Why should anything you say ever be believed again?"
I used to be on that side. CNN itself and people on the CNN forums red pilled me and got me to read info instead of just assuming the world worked how I thought it worked.
It might not seem like your doing anything but you are. Can't help all of them but you can get through to the full of themselves intellectuals that read what you say to disprove you.
I kept the fight going in that sub for the people that read but never really commented. Usually the people commenting would never admit they were wrong but someone else might read the thread and see how shit their argument was and tumble down the rabbit hole.
Exactly!
Your not going to get a movie like apology and admission that they were wrong. You will however make them think to themselves and by the time they admit they were wrong they are standing beside you.
The people who redpilled me never got an admission of being wrong from me because being redpilled takes time.
That's because they go with feelings over facts. Every. Single. Time.
We need to learn to use emotional arguments on leftists.
Im sick of us complaining about how easily manipulated leftists are while not making any effort to manipulate them.
Instead of using facts and data, tell them a story. Leftists weaknesses are disadvantaged people and fairness.
Tell them about someone who came from the bottom. Who worked their ass off at two jobs for 20 years so they could keep the bills paid and have some left to put into savings. Who put it all down on a little spot in a stripmall right down the street from their first house.
Dont skip the little details either. Like the time the car broke down and he took the bus to work for three months. The bus wasnt running after the shift at his second job was over so he walked 5 miles home.
The getting sick without health insurance, because leftists mandated full time workers get coverage so everyones hours got cut and he lost his coverage. Which is why he needed to work 2 jobs now, to cover the hours leftists cost him.
The late nights he spent with his with his wife going over all the expenses and daily sales at the fledgling little business they started. The massive stress of those first few months when customers weren’t coming in yet. The glimmer of hope that kept them going. The pride they felt the first month they turned a profit, meager as it was. Things were looking up.
Then the mob came and smashed out his windows and stole all his merchandise. It didn’t matter that he agreed with them, that he was black, that the insurance company would definitely find a way to weasel out of paying him. They burned his store to the ground and cheered like it was a game.
Hes back at the supermarket now, working those late shifts again. But he isn’t the same anymore. His American dream is gone. And its worse because he came so close. He was at the gate, and they slammed it shut in his face.
This is perfect. Thank you.
When the riots first started, that evening when we saw it on tv, my first thought, which I stated out loud and one of my kids was in the room, was that they were burning their own neighborhood down. What good would that do to anyone that lived there?
Psychological trick i learned when I was young, when your boss comes to reprimand you for something stand next to them, shoulders aligned, instead of across from them.
Subconsciously now you are working on the problem together instead of having a confrontation. Applying that same logic of turning confrontations into collaborations, just toss out a statement of sympathy first.
“I understand their frustration, they have been dealing with corrupt government for decades. But that doesnt make it okay to hurt innocent people, even if its a rich guy who owns a target”
Like another one I heard, if you have to criticize someone, always pay a compliment first. It keeps them from getting defensive and not hearing the message.