Jesus of Nazareth was a a great rabbi, and a great Jew.
He was not the messiah. Abraham, Moses, Elijah - but Jesus was not Gd incarnate. We cannot fathom Gd. Gd has no body, Gd cannot be understood by man - and G*d is not corporeal.
Sorry, but Jesus of Nazareth did not check the "messianic checkboxes" in the Torah.
He fought no wars, he built no temple, he was not victorious over nations, he caused no great masses to come to Judaism, and as it is written, he would lay claim to his title - should he merit it....and according to the Gospels, he made no claim.
Jesus of Nazareth was not the messiah. The messiah is not yet here - and we must still wait for G*d.
The entire Torah is about Jesus. Consider the 1st 10 generations and the Hebrew meanings:
Adam-Man
Seth-Is appointed
Enos-mortal
Cainan-sorrow
Mahalaleel-The glory of God
Jared-(shall) come down
Enoch-teaching
Methuselah-His death shall bring(Methuselah also died the year the flood began, fitting name)
Lamech-the despairing
Noah-comfort/rest
So the author of Genesis hid the Christian gospel in a geneology? I don't believe it. The same God is the God of the Old and New Testaments, and Jesus is who He said He is.
Furthurmore...
His arrival was prophesied to the day in Daniel, hence His sadness on Palm Sunday as the people didn't even recognize the fulfillment of it.
He declared He was the Messiah as well, so if He's a liar how can He be a great rabbi and a great Jew?
He declared He was the Messiah as well, so if He's a liar how can He be a great rabbi and a great Jew?
This is what had always baffled me about my Jewish friends. How can he be a great rabbi and a great Jew, yet be a liar. And not only a liar, but lying about being God incarnate. Seems like a pretty big lie, if indeed they believe it is a lie. One that would seem to be big enough to not label him a great rabbi or Jew.
Paul’s Epistles, written earlier than the Gospels, give us no reason to dogmatically declare Jesus must have existed. Avoiding Jesus’ earthly events and teachings, even when the latter could have bolstered his own claims, Paul only describes his “Heavenly Jesus.” Even when discussing what appear to be the resurrection and the last supper, his only stated sources are his direct revelations from the Lord, and his indirect revelations from the Old Testament. In fact, Paul actually rules out human sources (see Galatians 1:11-12).
Also important are the sources we don’t have. There are no existing eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus. All we have are later descriptions of Jesus’ life events by non-eyewitnesses, most of whom are obviously biased. Little can be gleaned from the few non-Biblical and non-Christian sources, with only Roman scholar Josephus and historian Tacitus having any reasonable claim to be writing about Jesus within 100 years of his life. And even those sparse accounts are shrouded in controversy, with disagreements over what parts have obviously been changed by Christian scribes (the manuscripts were preserved by Christians), the fact that both these authors were born after Jesus died (they would thus have probably received this information from Christians), and the oddity that centuries go by before Christian apologists start referencing them.
Agnosticism over the matter is already seemingly appropriate, and support for this position comes from independent historian Richard Carrier’s recent defense of another theory — namely, that the belief in Jesus started as the belief in a purely celestial being (who was killed by demons in an upper realm), who became historicized over time. To summarize Carrier’s 800-page tome, this theory and the traditional theory – that Jesus was a historical figure who became mythicized over time – both align well with the Gospels, which are later mixtures of obvious myth and what at least sounds historical.
The Pauline Epistles, however, overwhelmingly support the “celestial Jesus” theory, particularly with the passage indicating that demons killed Jesus, and would not have done so if they knew who he was (see: 1 Corinthians 2:6-10). Humans – the murderers according to the Gospels – of course would still have killed Jesus, knowing full well that his death results in their salvation, and the defeat of the evil spirits.
So what do the mainstream (and non-Christian) scholars say about all this? Surprisingly very little – of substance anyway. Only Bart Ehrman and Maurice Casey have thoroughly attempted to prove Jesus’ historical existence in recent times. Their most decisive point? The Gospels can generally be trusted – after we ignore the many, many bits that are untrustworthy – because of the hypothetical (i.e. non-existent) sources behind them. Who produced these hypothetical sources? When? What did they say? Were they reliable? Were they intended to be accurate historical portrayals, enlightening allegories, or entertaining fictions?
Ehrman and Casey can’t tell you – and neither can any New Testament scholar. Given the poor state of the existing sources, and the atrocious methods used by mainstream Biblical historians, the matter will likely never be resolved. In sum, there are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence – if not to think it outright improbable.
Jesus of Nazareth was a a great rabbi, and a great Jew.
He was not the messiah. Abraham, Moses, Elijah - but Jesus was not Gd incarnate. We cannot fathom Gd. Gd has no body, Gd cannot be understood by man - and G*d is not corporeal.
Sorry, but Jesus of Nazareth did not check the "messianic checkboxes" in the Torah.
He fought no wars, he built no temple, he was not victorious over nations, he caused no great masses to come to Judaism, and as it is written, he would lay claim to his title - should he merit it....and according to the Gospels, he made no claim.
Jesus of Nazareth was not the messiah. The messiah is not yet here - and we must still wait for G*d.
The entire Torah is about Jesus. Consider the 1st 10 generations and the Hebrew meanings:
Adam-Man Seth-Is appointed Enos-mortal Cainan-sorrow Mahalaleel-The glory of God Jared-(shall) come down Enoch-teaching Methuselah-His death shall bring(Methuselah also died the year the flood began, fitting name) Lamech-the despairing Noah-comfort/rest
So the author of Genesis hid the Christian gospel in a geneology? I don't believe it. The same God is the God of the Old and New Testaments, and Jesus is who He said He is.
Furthurmore... His arrival was prophesied to the day in Daniel, hence His sadness on Palm Sunday as the people didn't even recognize the fulfillment of it.
He declared He was the Messiah as well, so if He's a liar how can He be a great rabbi and a great Jew?
This is what had always baffled me about my Jewish friends. How can he be a great rabbi and a great Jew, yet be a liar. And not only a liar, but lying about being God incarnate. Seems like a pretty big lie, if indeed they believe it is a lie. One that would seem to be big enough to not label him a great rabbi or Jew.
Paul’s Epistles, written earlier than the Gospels, give us no reason to dogmatically declare Jesus must have existed. Avoiding Jesus’ earthly events and teachings, even when the latter could have bolstered his own claims, Paul only describes his “Heavenly Jesus.” Even when discussing what appear to be the resurrection and the last supper, his only stated sources are his direct revelations from the Lord, and his indirect revelations from the Old Testament. In fact, Paul actually rules out human sources (see Galatians 1:11-12).
Also important are the sources we don’t have. There are no existing eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus. All we have are later descriptions of Jesus’ life events by non-eyewitnesses, most of whom are obviously biased. Little can be gleaned from the few non-Biblical and non-Christian sources, with only Roman scholar Josephus and historian Tacitus having any reasonable claim to be writing about Jesus within 100 years of his life. And even those sparse accounts are shrouded in controversy, with disagreements over what parts have obviously been changed by Christian scribes (the manuscripts were preserved by Christians), the fact that both these authors were born after Jesus died (they would thus have probably received this information from Christians), and the oddity that centuries go by before Christian apologists start referencing them.
Agnosticism over the matter is already seemingly appropriate, and support for this position comes from independent historian Richard Carrier’s recent defense of another theory — namely, that the belief in Jesus started as the belief in a purely celestial being (who was killed by demons in an upper realm), who became historicized over time. To summarize Carrier’s 800-page tome, this theory and the traditional theory – that Jesus was a historical figure who became mythicized over time – both align well with the Gospels, which are later mixtures of obvious myth and what at least sounds historical.
The Pauline Epistles, however, overwhelmingly support the “celestial Jesus” theory, particularly with the passage indicating that demons killed Jesus, and would not have done so if they knew who he was (see: 1 Corinthians 2:6-10). Humans – the murderers according to the Gospels – of course would still have killed Jesus, knowing full well that his death results in their salvation, and the defeat of the evil spirits.
So what do the mainstream (and non-Christian) scholars say about all this? Surprisingly very little – of substance anyway. Only Bart Ehrman and Maurice Casey have thoroughly attempted to prove Jesus’ historical existence in recent times. Their most decisive point? The Gospels can generally be trusted – after we ignore the many, many bits that are untrustworthy – because of the hypothetical (i.e. non-existent) sources behind them. Who produced these hypothetical sources? When? What did they say? Were they reliable? Were they intended to be accurate historical portrayals, enlightening allegories, or entertaining fictions?
Ehrman and Casey can’t tell you – and neither can any New Testament scholar. Given the poor state of the existing sources, and the atrocious methods used by mainstream Biblical historians, the matter will likely never be resolved. In sum, there are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence – if not to think it outright improbable.