Once you stop sinning and repent, THEN you are welcomed back in the fold of the Church.
"How DARE you judge me, Ima keep dressing in womens clothes/fornicating with 20 people out of wedlock each year/breaking into cars" is a rebellious, non-repentant sinner. Expel them, IN SPITE of the pastor if necessary.
What I'm talking about is aggressive sinning, REFUSAL to repent for a clear sin and demanding other Christians accept your sin without comment.
Iif one says "I drink daily and am totally wasted by 8PM every night, mind your own business fellow Christians, and I ain't gonna change, and don't you judge me", that's a rebellious sinner, not a repentful, though imperfect, sinner.
There are rapid signs of grace when you repent, even if it's not 100% conquered overnight.
One might not go to total abstinence from being sloshed every night, but one will go to a six pack only on Saturday afternoons pretty fast.
Loving them and forgiving them are two different things...
Forgiveness without repentance is just a license to continue sinning, in the case of man's relationship to God, or getting shit on by the left because we turn the other cheek, in the case of our current political situation
Depends on the definition of forgiveness that you use.
Forgiveness in one definition means essentially to choose to not get even. To not take personal revenge on your enemy, even if you could.
That doesn't mean that we should allow sins to continue, nor does it mean that crimes shouldn't be punished. But not because of personal vengeance, but for the good of society and the good of others.
But it also means turning eternal judgement over to God and not to try to take God's judgement for ourselves.
Don’t confuse forgiveness with reconciliation. While we may forgive forgive and forgive generously, so that we do not seek “the count of Monte Cristo”-style hatred in our hearts, we do not necessarily need to reconcile with those who abused us in various ways e.g. invite them to your wedding etc,
They have to repent before we can forgive them. Since none has, we will not.
Sinners have to be genuine and SIN NO MORE.
Once you stop sinning and repent, THEN you are welcomed back in the fold of the Church.
"How DARE you judge me, Ima keep dressing in womens clothes/fornicating with 20 people out of wedlock each year/breaking into cars" is a rebellious, non-repentant sinner. Expel them, IN SPITE of the pastor if necessary.
If we could sin no more we would not need a savior. I need God's continuous grace and mercy in my life.
What I'm talking about is aggressive sinning, REFUSAL to repent for a clear sin and demanding other Christians accept your sin without comment.
Iif one says "I drink daily and am totally wasted by 8PM every night, mind your own business fellow Christians, and I ain't gonna change, and don't you judge me", that's a rebellious sinner, not a repentful, though imperfect, sinner.
There are rapid signs of grace when you repent, even if it's not 100% conquered overnight.
One might not go to total abstinence from being sloshed every night, but one will go to a six pack only on Saturday afternoons pretty fast.
Indeed.
Apostasy and heresy are defined for a reason.
Disagree. He loved us even before we knew him and while still in sin. You can love them without them repenting.
Loving them and forgiving them are two different things...
Forgiveness without repentance is just a license to continue sinning, in the case of man's relationship to God, or getting shit on by the left because we turn the other cheek, in the case of our current political situation
Depends on the definition of forgiveness that you use.
Forgiveness in one definition means essentially to choose to not get even. To not take personal revenge on your enemy, even if you could.
That doesn't mean that we should allow sins to continue, nor does it mean that crimes shouldn't be punished. But not because of personal vengeance, but for the good of society and the good of others.
But it also means turning eternal judgement over to God and not to try to take God's judgement for ourselves.
Jesus is a lot better at forgiveness than I am.
Agreed. But I'm talking about us forgiving Communist and shit. They have to repent before seeking forgiveness.
Don’t confuse forgiveness with reconciliation. While we may forgive forgive and forgive generously, so that we do not seek “the count of Monte Cristo”-style hatred in our hearts, we do not necessarily need to reconcile with those who abused us in various ways e.g. invite them to your wedding etc,
This. You forgive the person and then they are forgotten from your life.
Can't forget them when they want us dead