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posted ago by Long_time_lurker ago by Long_time_lurker +178 / -1

We all know how terrible Marx's understanding of economics was, but how many people knew that he was a terrible mathematician, as well? Here, behold this genius trying to define 0/0:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255609552_Calculus_A_Marxist_approach

"In calculating the derivative of a function from first principles, Marx did not like the notion of a limit. When considering (f(x) − f(a))/(x − a) he wanted to put x = a, after suitable cancelling or some other algebraic simplification, and write the result as 0/0. He did not see 0/0 as a fraction; he saw it as one symbol."

For those who don't know, 0/0 is undefined because it literally can't have any consistent definition. So this is equivalent to starting your reasoning with a premise like x and not x, which would imply, insensibly, that everything is true.

As Wikipedia puts it, if b ≠ 0 then the equation a/b = c is equivalent to a = b × c. Assuming that a/0 is a number c, then it must be that a = 0 × c = 0. However, the single number c would then have to be determined by the equation 0 = 0 × c, but every number satisfies this equation, so we cannot assign a numerical value to 0/0.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_by_zero

Weird how they ... somehow forgot ... to mention that in his list of math publications, though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_manuscripts_of_Karl_Marx?wprov=sfla1

So if any of you are unfortunate enough to know Marx bros, you can point out that he was a terrible mathematician as well as a terrible economist.

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viking65 3 points ago +3 / -0

Not going to defend Marx, but wikipedia is not a credible source and you're basing the contradiction on an assumption that 0 = 0 x c, where c is a/0. It stands to reason that this is faulty logic, because 0 x c = a.

Division by zero can be done with a mathmatical construct, just like how the square root of negative numbers can be done by expanding into complex numbers by defining i x i = -1.

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Long_time_lurker [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

The problem is that defining 0/0 leads to inconsistencies and Marx does nothing to address them here.

I quoted that bit of Wikipedia because it's simple enough for anyone with basic arithmatic to understand.

The problem isn't that you can't define 0/0 to be some number, the problem is that it has too many possible answers. It's the reverse of the operation x * 0, which is 0 for all x. Because any number could've gone into the equation, any number should be able to come out of it when you reverse it, and trying to assign it a meaning fails because anything could be the answer.

It's like trying to do logic starting with the premise A and not-A. You can derive anything from that premise, so it tells you nothing whatsoever.

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viking65 2 points ago +2 / -0

Your mistake is assuming x * 0 = 0, because that leads to a contradiction if 0/0 is defined. If x = a/0, then x * 0 = a

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Long_time_lurker [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

We don't define 0/0 because it contradicts the field axioms. More specifically, we would call that form "indeterminate" rather than assigning it any value.

https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Indeterminate.html

You can prove that x * 0 = 0 from the field axioms:

https://mathworld.wolfram.com/FieldAxioms.html

Starting by using the distribution axiom on the equation x (y+0) we find that x * (y+0) = xy + x0.

But y+0=y due to the identity axiom, so x * (y+ 0)= x*y

So xy = x (y+0) = xy + x*0

So we can ignore the middle part and just look at the relation: xy = xy + x*0

Using the additive inverse rule, we can subtract xy from both sides, which gives us 0 = x0

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King6of6the6retards 1 point ago +1 / -0

Yeah, but those axioms only work when x/0 isn't a thing by convention. Not having x/0 be a thing is a lesser of two evils type of trade. You could make x/0=0, then we just change how we do math.

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conservativeyuppie 2 points ago +2 / -0

It stands to reason that this is faulty logic, because 0 x c = a.

If 0 x c = a, then by definition a=0.