I have spent much time debating actual neo nazis here, especially in the last few days. Here's some of what I've discovered:
they claim not to follow Hitler but that we need him to fight the owners of the Fed
they actually want an "ethnostate" but can't define it. They use the 3/5 clause, unaware that was a compromise from the north, who thought they had stamped out slavery in 20 years future
they do blame everything on Jews. All Jews.
they deny being nazis, neonazis, and even the definition of the term.
calling them Jews really turns them into snowflakes. When they invariably lie, calling them nothing but a lying Jew speaks their language.
they hate DJT, maybe as much as they hate anyone else
anyone not literally Hitler they consider a leftist, supporting white genocide. They don't realize nazism was a leftist ideology.
Although it doesn't sound like it, they really are sending their best. They may not all be stupid, some may be criminally insane, evil, or young and brainwashed.
they really like claiming "you have been exposed as"
Based on your downvotes, I don't think that's going to be helpful.
There are definitely some actual Nazis here who subscribe to Nazi ideology and hate President Trump.
There are also disillusioned Americans who are suddenly learning extremely uncomfortable facts about the role of [apparent] Jewish supremacists in 20th century history for the first time in their lives. When you finally look at the evidence long enough to appreciate its significance, it's such a gut punch that many people can't help but trust the word of whoever gave them the evidence that had been withheld from them their whole lives. That window of uncritical acceptance makes people vulnerable to broader anti-Semitic prejudice (the idea that the existence of powerful Jewish supremacists makes all Jewish people complicit, when they're really just prisoners of their leaders with Stockholm Syndrome like anyone else), and ostracizing them polarizes them further toward Nazi sympathies. Most of these posters don't want to hate people for their ethnicity or religion, and most probably resent being driven to tribalism: They're just scared of what they see, and especially of everyone else claiming not to see it.
Actual Nazis have been vanishingly rare up until now, but that's mainly because conservatives had some token presence in polite society, so our debate partners were generally liberals. We knew their talking points and how to refute them, but it didn't matter, because our organization was total crap. Once ideological communists irrevocably shoved conservatives onto the fringes of society, our debate partners became the other factions on the fringes, and we were wholly unprepared for some of the factually true information that [almost] only they possessed. The Nazis finally had an audience who didn't know everything they knew, and who were already partially desensitized to cries of "Nazi," because that's what the left has been calling us forever. Under circumstances of persecution and extreme societal destabilization, it should not come as a surprise that some people find aggressively tribal ideologies persuasive when presented in combination with genuine forbidden knowledge.
My point is, I don't think you can reach these people by playing stigmatization games like the left, because we're entering a period of history where anyone with a survival instinct is becoming immune to them. For better or worse, conservatives are learning that what we've been doing has not been working.
Instead, we have been helpless to stop our enemies from leading the western world to assisted suicide.
Because of this, it may no longer be advisable or even possible to keep Pandora's Box shut on dangerous/sensitive topics like, "Why are so many of the globalist elites ethnically Jewish? Is it really just a coincidence, or a matter of high racial IQ magnifying outliers? Is Jewish in-group preference playing a role?
Why do so many key 20th century globalist figures speak like Jewish supremacists?"
I understand why people find this subject too dangerous to touch with a ten foot pole, but if only Nazis are willing to talk about a particular elephant in the room, then anyone who's tired of averting their eyes is going to learn about it from the Nazi perspective...which really is totalitarian and evil, no matter how real the threat they were responding to was. (I have a full post on why that's bad here: https://patriots.win/p/12i4DOP605/x/c/4DzeVUxB1r4)
If diehard Americans like you and I want to maintain credibility in this environment, we need to find a way to make our worldviews compatible with a scenario where Jewish supremacists are actually a driving force among the globalists. After all, the real problem is not that people are considering that possibility. It's obviously a physically plausible scenario which could hypothetically happen, and indeed looks to be actually happening. The real problem is that hiding from it makes American values look insufficient to cope with such a world...and so panicked people fall into tribalistic and even anti-American (e.g. Nazi) thinking, because annihilation is not an option to them the same way totalitarianism of any sort is not an option to you and me.
To get ahead of that disastrous overreaction, I think we all need to face the ugly subjects and figure out how to respond in a way consistent with genuine American values based in the Enlightenment, Christianity, etc. Importantly, we have to do so in a way that is convincing and reassuring to people who would otherwise become overly polarized toward another type of totalitarianism.
Our situation has led people to reevaluate our cultural assumptions like multiculturalism (clearly destructive) and even ethnic/racial integration. In the fallout, people have thoughts like, "If Japan can be for Japanese people, and Kenya can be for Kenyans, and Iran can be for Iranians, and Israel can be for Jews, why are only white people not allowed to have their own countries?"
Their argument may not even be strictly wrong for some European countries, but the United States is in such a different position that I don't think it's reasonable to pursue any path except civic nationalism here (perhaps with some special protection for our Christian heritage, after seeing the way our liberties have been exploited against us). We've been ethnically diverse for so long that reverting to racial segregation would feel extremely unnatural and wrong...and for good reason.
People of all races are on this board (including, yes, MAGA Jews), and many of us even have mixed-race families. There is nothing wrong with that, and if there is any place in the world where that should be accepted, I believe the United States of America is that place. For a short time, we became the most successful multi-racial society on the planet and proved that civic nationalism worked, and it took extreme efforts by international enemies to destabilize that again. I don't think we should throw out the baby with the bathwater...but if panicking ex-conservatives-turned-tribalists are going to accept my argument, I need to be able to look them in the eye and tell them that I'm still confident in my position even when I see the elephant in the room.
the idea that the existence of powerful Jewish supremacists makes all Jewish people complicit
This idea doesn't exist in any meaningful capacity no matter how many times you repeat it. Not even the dreaded Nazis themselves held every individual Jew complicit in anything.
We've been ethnically diverse for so long that reverting to racial segregation would feel extremely unnatural and wrong...and for good reason.
The only reason it would feel unnatural and wrong is due to the Marxist brainwashing, which isn't a good reason in the slightest. We've been "ethnically diverse" for about 60 years or so. America is also one of the few countries that was explicitly white from its very founding, by virtue of the era.
We did not prove that civic nationalism works. Before we became the most successful "multi-racial society", we were the most successful (substantially more-so) white society. We proved that civic nationalism (AKA the destruction of a country's true national identity) is an immensely powerful way for those international enemies to destabilize and corrupt us.
Btw I'm happy to see some of you are taking the shifting Overton window a bit more seriously and not leaning on the same old hysterical damage control like Mr. Neo-Nazi Debater there. Maybe we're finally getting somewhere.
The dreaded Nazis kind of did hold every individual Jew complicit in the ways that mattered. That's how the photo from Gina Carano's tweet came to be. The grand total deaths from the Holocaust may be exaggerated, but let's not whitewash the Nazis either. They overtly persecuted Jews on an ethnic basis, and I'm pretty sure that Anne Frank wasn't individually guilty of anything warranting the death penalty. Germany may have gone down this road to fight a real threat, but the Nazi response was still totalitarian, murderous, occultist, scarily eugenicist, racially obsessed to mirror-opposite Woke levels, etc.:
("The teaching of the natural sciences, in which Germany had been so preeminent for generations, deteriorated rapidly. Great teachers such as Einstein and Franck in physics, Haber, Willstaetter and Warburg in chemistry, were either fired or retired. Those who remained, many of them, were bitten by the Nazi aberrations and attempted to apply them to pure science. They began to teach what they called German physics, German chemistry, German mathematics. Indeed, in 1937 there appeared a journal called Deutsche Mathematik, and its first editorial solemnly proclaimed that any idea that mathematics could be judged nonracially carried 'within itself the germs of destruction of German science.'" -- Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, p. 250.
I can't find the original Deutsche Mathematik article to cite the primary source, but surely you can imagine its existence after being exposed to all of this Woke nonsense about math being racist. It's the kind of stuff that happens when racially obsessed ideologies take over.)
There is at least one major reason why segregation would feel unnatural and wrong, aside from Marxist brainwashing: As I said, some of us have multi-racial families. Some of us are multi-racial ourselves. What is your solution? Break up families? Break into ethnically distinct states, with the mutts in the interstate trade zone in the middle? Deport the Hodge twins to a country they've never known? Let them pick a race? Call one white and one black? Split them each down the middle?
It's fair to say that I oversold the argument that we proved that civic nationalism works. That said, there were also so many other contributing factors to our decline that I don't think it's fair to conclusively say it doesn't work either. Some of those factors include:
Instead of doing civic nationalism right, we permitted the push for multiculturalism instead of integration...which is what actually destroyed our "true national identity," as defined by the Constitution, English Common Law, Christian values, etc.
Mass immigration at rates deliberately outpacing assimilation
Arguably insufficient protection of cultural heritage and values
Ideological subversion by international enemies: You could say that this would happen over and over in a society with exploitable ethnic divisions, and maybe it would. That said, our Achilles heel is that we never drew a line between the free speech and property rights of individuals, and the subversion and abuse of international corporations and NGO's run by actual foreign enemies.
For better or worse we've had a significant black minority in the US since colonial times, and this country is their home too. That comes with challenges, especially combined with all the deliberate degradation of their culture since LBJ, but I'd much rather correct and immunize against the blatant subversions of civic nationalism than assume that its endemic challenges are insurmountable.
I have spent much time debating actual neo nazis here, especially in the last few days. Here's some of what I've discovered:
they claim not to follow Hitler but that we need him to fight the owners of the Fed
they actually want an "ethnostate" but can't define it. They use the 3/5 clause, unaware that was a compromise from the north, who thought they had stamped out slavery in 20 years future
they do blame everything on Jews. All Jews.
they deny being nazis, neonazis, and even the definition of the term.
calling them Jews really turns them into snowflakes. When they invariably lie, calling them nothing but a lying Jew speaks their language.
they hate DJT, maybe as much as they hate anyone else
anyone not literally Hitler they consider a leftist, supporting white genocide. They don't realize nazism was a leftist ideology.
Although it doesn't sound like it, they really are sending their best. They may not all be stupid, some may be criminally insane, evil, or young and brainwashed.
they really like claiming "you have been exposed as"
Let's all expose them!
Based on your downvotes, I don't think that's going to be helpful.
There are definitely some actual Nazis here who subscribe to Nazi ideology and hate President Trump.
There are also disillusioned Americans who are suddenly learning extremely uncomfortable facts about the role of [apparent] Jewish supremacists in 20th century history for the first time in their lives. When you finally look at the evidence long enough to appreciate its significance, it's such a gut punch that many people can't help but trust the word of whoever gave them the evidence that had been withheld from them their whole lives. That window of uncritical acceptance makes people vulnerable to broader anti-Semitic prejudice (the idea that the existence of powerful Jewish supremacists makes all Jewish people complicit, when they're really just prisoners of their leaders with Stockholm Syndrome like anyone else), and ostracizing them polarizes them further toward Nazi sympathies. Most of these posters don't want to hate people for their ethnicity or religion, and most probably resent being driven to tribalism: They're just scared of what they see, and especially of everyone else claiming not to see it.
Actual Nazis have been vanishingly rare up until now, but that's mainly because conservatives had some token presence in polite society, so our debate partners were generally liberals. We knew their talking points and how to refute them, but it didn't matter, because our organization was total crap. Once ideological communists irrevocably shoved conservatives onto the fringes of society, our debate partners became the other factions on the fringes, and we were wholly unprepared for some of the factually true information that [almost] only they possessed. The Nazis finally had an audience who didn't know everything they knew, and who were already partially desensitized to cries of "Nazi," because that's what the left has been calling us forever. Under circumstances of persecution and extreme societal destabilization, it should not come as a surprise that some people find aggressively tribal ideologies persuasive when presented in combination with genuine forbidden knowledge.
My point is, I don't think you can reach these people by playing stigmatization games like the left, because we're entering a period of history where anyone with a survival instinct is becoming immune to them. For better or worse, conservatives are learning that what we've been doing has not been working. Instead, we have been helpless to stop our enemies from leading the western world to assisted suicide.
Because of this, it may no longer be advisable or even possible to keep Pandora's Box shut on dangerous/sensitive topics like, "Why are so many of the globalist elites ethnically Jewish? Is it really just a coincidence, or a matter of high racial IQ magnifying outliers? Is Jewish in-group preference playing a role? Why do so many key 20th century globalist figures speak like Jewish supremacists?"
I understand why people find this subject too dangerous to touch with a ten foot pole, but if only Nazis are willing to talk about a particular elephant in the room, then anyone who's tired of averting their eyes is going to learn about it from the Nazi perspective...which really is totalitarian and evil, no matter how real the threat they were responding to was. (I have a full post on why that's bad here: https://patriots.win/p/12i4DOP605/x/c/4DzeVUxB1r4)
If diehard Americans like you and I want to maintain credibility in this environment, we need to find a way to make our worldviews compatible with a scenario where Jewish supremacists are actually a driving force among the globalists. After all, the real problem is not that people are considering that possibility. It's obviously a physically plausible scenario which could hypothetically happen, and indeed looks to be actually happening. The real problem is that hiding from it makes American values look insufficient to cope with such a world...and so panicked people fall into tribalistic and even anti-American (e.g. Nazi) thinking, because annihilation is not an option to them the same way totalitarianism of any sort is not an option to you and me.
To get ahead of that disastrous overreaction, I think we all need to face the ugly subjects and figure out how to respond in a way consistent with genuine American values based in the Enlightenment, Christianity, etc. Importantly, we have to do so in a way that is convincing and reassuring to people who would otherwise become overly polarized toward another type of totalitarianism.
Our situation has led people to reevaluate our cultural assumptions like multiculturalism (clearly destructive) and even ethnic/racial integration. In the fallout, people have thoughts like, "If Japan can be for Japanese people, and Kenya can be for Kenyans, and Iran can be for Iranians, and Israel can be for Jews, why are only white people not allowed to have their own countries?"
Their argument may not even be strictly wrong for some European countries, but the United States is in such a different position that I don't think it's reasonable to pursue any path except civic nationalism here (perhaps with some special protection for our Christian heritage, after seeing the way our liberties have been exploited against us). We've been ethnically diverse for so long that reverting to racial segregation would feel extremely unnatural and wrong...and for good reason.
People of all races are on this board (including, yes, MAGA Jews), and many of us even have mixed-race families. There is nothing wrong with that, and if there is any place in the world where that should be accepted, I believe the United States of America is that place. For a short time, we became the most successful multi-racial society on the planet and proved that civic nationalism worked, and it took extreme efforts by international enemies to destabilize that again. I don't think we should throw out the baby with the bathwater...but if panicking ex-conservatives-turned-tribalists are going to accept my argument, I need to be able to look them in the eye and tell them that I'm still confident in my position even when I see the elephant in the room.
This idea doesn't exist in any meaningful capacity no matter how many times you repeat it. Not even the dreaded Nazis themselves held every individual Jew complicit in anything.
The only reason it would feel unnatural and wrong is due to the Marxist brainwashing, which isn't a good reason in the slightest. We've been "ethnically diverse" for about 60 years or so. America is also one of the few countries that was explicitly white from its very founding, by virtue of the era.
We did not prove that civic nationalism works. Before we became the most successful "multi-racial society", we were the most successful (substantially more-so) white society. We proved that civic nationalism (AKA the destruction of a country's true national identity) is an immensely powerful way for those international enemies to destabilize and corrupt us.
Btw I'm happy to see some of you are taking the shifting Overton window a bit more seriously and not leaning on the same old hysterical damage control like Mr. Neo-Nazi Debater there. Maybe we're finally getting somewhere.
The dreaded Nazis kind of did hold every individual Jew complicit in the ways that mattered. That's how the photo from Gina Carano's tweet came to be. The grand total deaths from the Holocaust may be exaggerated, but let's not whitewash the Nazis either. They overtly persecuted Jews on an ethnic basis, and I'm pretty sure that Anne Frank wasn't individually guilty of anything warranting the death penalty. Germany may have gone down this road to fight a real threat, but the Nazi response was still totalitarian, murderous, occultist, scarily eugenicist, racially obsessed to mirror-opposite Woke levels, etc.:
("The teaching of the natural sciences, in which Germany had been so preeminent for generations, deteriorated rapidly. Great teachers such as Einstein and Franck in physics, Haber, Willstaetter and Warburg in chemistry, were either fired or retired. Those who remained, many of them, were bitten by the Nazi aberrations and attempted to apply them to pure science. They began to teach what they called German physics, German chemistry, German mathematics. Indeed, in 1937 there appeared a journal called Deutsche Mathematik, and its first editorial solemnly proclaimed that any idea that mathematics could be judged nonracially carried 'within itself the germs of destruction of German science.'" -- Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, p. 250. I can't find the original Deutsche Mathematik article to cite the primary source, but surely you can imagine its existence after being exposed to all of this Woke nonsense about math being racist. It's the kind of stuff that happens when racially obsessed ideologies take over.)
There is at least one major reason why segregation would feel unnatural and wrong, aside from Marxist brainwashing: As I said, some of us have multi-racial families. Some of us are multi-racial ourselves. What is your solution? Break up families? Break into ethnically distinct states, with the mutts in the interstate trade zone in the middle? Deport the Hodge twins to a country they've never known? Let them pick a race? Call one white and one black? Split them each down the middle?
It's fair to say that I oversold the argument that we proved that civic nationalism works. That said, there were also so many other contributing factors to our decline that I don't think it's fair to conclusively say it doesn't work either. Some of those factors include:
For better or worse we've had a significant black minority in the US since colonial times, and this country is their home too. That comes with challenges, especially combined with all the deliberate degradation of their culture since LBJ, but I'd much rather correct and immunize against the blatant subversions of civic nationalism than assume that its endemic challenges are insurmountable.