2103
Comments (215)
sorted by:
139
Demonspawn 139 points ago +141 / -2

This is one of those "sad but fucking true" moments.

Old guys ran the pipeline manually.

Pipeline modernized to computer control.

New people were only taught the new computerized methods. It is considered to be a waste of training money to teach the new guys how to do it manually because "they'll never need it"

Time passes, and nobody still at the company knows how to work the pipeline other than via the computers.

ETA: I've got a lot of replies in my inbox which aren't showing up here (eventual consistency?), so let me rebut to a few of them:

Can they run individual parts manually? Yes. They need to do that today for maintenance and the like.

Can they run the entire system manually? No. They no longer have the knowledge or skills necessary to do so. And in an industry like this, perhaps even if they had the people the safety regs in place (now) would make it impossible to run (within those regs) without the computers making the moment to moment calculations.

Here's my thought experiment based on a video I saw which explained London taxi licensing. The drivers have to memorize a map of London (btw, not a grid system) such that they can pick you up and get you to your destination without incurring excessive travel. Now imagine that they dropped the memorization tests because some mapping system can solve the system problem of routing from A to B. The newer drivers become depend on this mapping software. Now imagine that the software goes down.

Can they still drive cars from A to B? of course.

Can they get there without overage on distance? Unlikely.

What if there are government safety regs about overages? They shut down.

97
Lordahdaring 97 points ago +98 / -1

If that is true, they didn't have an appropriate maintenance or down time schedule.

In short their Operations team as well as their IT team are incompetent morons, as well as Risk Management.

69
HuggableBear 69 points ago +70 / -1

You say this as if it's not true of every huge company.

Yes, duh, their operations team is full of morons. The entire company is run by bean counters instead of oil men.

24
Junionthepipeline 24 points ago +24 / -0

As much as I hate the railroad we still learned how to run the whole thing manually. No computers phones or anything else needed

9
RagnarD 9 points ago +9 / -0

Dagny? Is that you?

5
DagnyT 5 points ago +5 / -0

yes

3
walls_winning_whisky 3 points ago +3 / -0

The Destroyer is here.

5
deleted 5 points ago +5 / -0
4
Hullohoomans 4 points ago +4 / -0

Yeah, same goes for the maritime industry. Everything on the ship can and does get done totally manually from time to time. Even shit like operating a bow thruster can be done manually.

2
thebassdude 2 points ago +2 / -0

Why do you hate the railroad? That would have been my dream job.

2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
1
thebassdude 1 point ago +1 / -0

Oh man that sucks. If I had hired on it would have been back in the 80's, maybe it would have been better then. At any rate I missed it.

2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
11
BaldyGull 11 points ago +11 / -0

In every industry and sector. And it is trickling down. In tech, they are introducing managerial positions at the team level and I suspect it is an effort to "diversify" tech because it is almost all women. Men are generally more interested in programming, but any smuck who can stomach bean counting can be a "scrum master". I see marginal benefit in the role, though some, and a huge cost in introducing bureaucracy to people who would otherwise keep their head to the grindstone.

8
DickAllcocks 8 points ago +8 / -0

Ive left a few decent jobs for being over-managed by incompetent morons who have the time didnt actually understand my job or management. If the person above you is a glorified babysitter and isn’t going to develop you, get out immediately.

3
thebassdude 3 points ago +3 / -0

I walked off a good paying career job after 16 years because of exactly this. After learning the ropes and running the department for 10+ years with no budget (every expense had to be approved) they promoted someone over me who managed to earn his masters in management degree while on company time, from a "university" you've never heard of and a place he never stepped foot into. He started implementing stupid management rules that I guess he learned at the fake school that hamstrung everything we tried to do. When I was told that I had to start recording what I was doing every 15 minutes of a nine hour day, I turned in my resignation.

2
DickAllcocks 2 points ago +2 / -0

Yep. Fuck that. Never stick around for bullshit. As soon as you step in it get new shoes and tread elsewhere. Fuck that lol.

1
user2827 1 point ago +1 / -0

In a similar spot, looking to leave, unfortunately my bills don't take a break.

The new manager decided to stop building the product built in our shop as batches to mimic the products at the other shop. Which makes sense when building a 20ft X 10ft X 10 ft machine, but far less when building a 20" x 30" x 12" machine.

Somehow does not grasp that it is far more efficient to have 1 page with a quantity of 20 than 20 pages with a qty of 1. (It gets worse, but don't want to accidentally dox myself)

2
thebassdude 2 points ago +2 / -0

I had no choice, I let it get to the point where I was afraid of myself and what I might do, especially to this idiot. I had no other job lined up either, so I lost my insurance just in time for Obamacare, which I couldn't afford and didn't cover my prescriptions anyway. So, I spent the next few months going cold turkey off ambien and prosac, either of which I've read could have killed me, or I could have killed myself. I didn't, recovered, and had a great new job before the end of the year.

My only regret is staying where I did so long out of fear of the unknown. It took a mental and physical toll on me and my family, and in the end the job I went to was like a dream assignment.

2
itsdangerous 2 points ago +3 / -1

they dont havevto develop you per se. they gotta lead. managers that dont lead are useless. thats many of them.

4
DickAllcocks 4 points ago +5 / -1

If your manager cannot help you grow, its a dead end job. Development is everything. Its the difference between staying employable or getting fucked.

I mean an engineer is a leadership position on to itself. We are collaborators and colleagues. I dont need some 24 year old bimbo beam counter pretend to not be clueless and in charge. We are supposed to be leaders accountable by a superior.

Development IS leadership when you’re a professional. We know how to do our current jobs. Otherwise the company IS NOT taking you with them and leaving you behind like a sucker.

Most good leadership is already having the right people and supporting them. Unless its McDonalds or a screw shop.

2
itsdangerous 2 points ago +2 / -0

support the people sure, but you cant make someone "develop" if they dont do it on their own... unless you inspire people and that, is leadership.

1
ThunderSizzle 1 point ago +1 / -0

No scrum master should be a scrum master if they don't have experience as a team member, as the other half of a job of a scrum master is to remove impediments the team might have.

1
BaldyGull 1 point ago +1 / -0

Those impediments are rarely technical, that would fall to an architect or similar. It is usually security says we can't do this and we need to, or customer said this and it makes no sense and we can't act on it. The job has value sometimes, but when you consider the wages paid for devs to sit in scrums, and retros, and planning meetings, the cost is pretty high for what you get.

7
DickAllcocks 7 points ago +7 / -0

Bean counters have ruined everything. Its not even the greed. Ots the myopic thinking where theyll get autistically focused on one number target and not able to see the trade offs in measurable and non-measurable but operational costs and benefits. Ive worked at companies that couldnt understand that certain changes may bring a cost down but you may increase total overall costs from unintended consequences and bad assumptions about other changed made to accommodate that. My last gig they wanted to shave like a minute off of overall production time of the final product by shaving time in upstream processes. Well they took a shortcut that eliminated a great solution to a huge problem and it cost them like a million dollars because usually the people overseeing beam counters love hopium and get delusional or careless because long before they admit they fucked up they can blame operators and low level engineers for being too stupid to do it right despite being doomed to fail. Fuck bean counters and HR people lol.

1
LoneStarDangler 1 point ago +1 / -0

Parasites

6
Lordahdaring 6 points ago +6 / -0

Yeah, you’re right I’m depressed about it too.

6
Farage_massage 6 points ago +6 / -0

Without giving too much away - I have worked for a major energy pipeline company. There’s no way in hell they don’t have crews on payroll that can’t manually operate these stations. Even if they had to get in contractors from the OEM, they could get it done tomorrow at worst. They will almost certainly require these skills for maintenance, fire safety, failover tests etc.

4
PraiseBeToScience 4 points ago +4 / -0

Yeah but that was one company who may have had their shit together.

Corporate America is full of stories of executive-grade stupidity like this. "Bro don't even worry about training anyone to do it manually, we have computers, I won't be able to afford to get on the Lamborgini Superleggera preorder list if we waste money training these guys.

3
DickAllcocks 3 points ago +3 / -0

My friend does this for a living. He’s a contractor that does work for multiple companies. Its all fucking standardized. Most companies have farmed this out for quite some time since its redundant for each compnay to do it in-house. Some comonaies obviously have in-house people who can manage and perform it on the fly for say an emergency, but usually its contracted out now. Mostly what varies from company to company is organization and culture, and even then most companies are largely the same and people rotate around and all know each other. This is utter horseshit.

37
justicein2020 37 points ago +37 / -0

It happens.

I killed a company when they fired me for something stupid.

Being the only one who knew how to collect, let alone process their data feeds.
They were completely 100% fucked 3 days after i left.

They called. I laughed. They threatened me. I laughed harder.
They withheld my last paycheck. I sicced the labor board on them and got paid.

And 3 months later they don't exist. It's a good thing.

10
BaldyGull 10 points ago +10 / -0

They went all in with a pair. Funny thing is, they still had decent odds. A lot of people will take the follow up offer after they realize what they've done.

6
MauserShooter 6 points ago +6 / -0

If this is true it’s a savage savage thing.

So in other words, only you knew how to access and do the work witch kept the company moving?

And after they screwed you over, you just said fuck off and the place imploded?

So no one else anywhere could do the work or access what you could?

8
justicein2020 8 points ago +8 / -0

In theory they could have gotten a contractor in to figure it out in about a week and get going and teach them wtf they are doing.

But the (narcissistic alcoholic) owner would never admit he didn't actually know anything about what my job entailed.

4
3-10 4 points ago +4 / -0

Damn, what industry was that to have a single point of failure?

4
DonuteaterReturns 4 points ago +4 / -0

The best job security is when thongs fall apart when you're gone.

2
Spicy_maymay 2 points ago +4 / -2

Good read, but it's too bad everyone clapped afterwards.

10
flashersenpai 10 points ago +10 / -0

You'd be surprised how dumb people's bosses are, especially in tech.

17
residue69 17 points ago +17 / -0

The Colonial Pipeline hack was done through a shared VPN using a publicly available password, so yes.

The VPN login — which didn't have multi-factor protections on — was unused but active at the time of the attack, the report said, adding the password has since been discovered inside a batch of leaked passwords on the dark web, suggesting that an employee of the company may have reused the same password on another account that was previously breached.

10
Lordahdaring 10 points ago +10 / -0

Ok yeah mediocrity is more ubiquitous than ignorance

4
prayinpede 4 points ago +7 / -3

The boomers in the upper level management dont really get the internet. Anyone with half a brain knows you dont plug in critical infrastructure to the web. I hope they haven't done this with power plants

7
PraiseBeToScience 7 points ago +7 / -0

My father literally works in tech and when we were talking about the stolen election (he's a CNN watching retard) I kept telling him 'You know damn well computer technology is comprisable and fallible" and his response was literally "Yeah but we have to move forward".

Fucking wat.

7
flashersenpai 7 points ago +7 / -0

Not just boomers. People are lazy and most don't even understand what anti-virus programs do or how to use an ad-blocker.

5
7
3-10 7 points ago +7 / -0

That is so true. I have some Network certs and I absolutely refuse to go to a smart home. I have wifi and cable modem, but I try to keep the home basically off the IoT craze.

Washer, dryer, dishwasher, garage door are all free from the IoT. Heck, the locks are all old school keys.

4
7
prayinpede 7 points ago +7 / -0

Ive been thinking to getting into cybersecurity. Nows the time

5
3-10 5 points ago +5 / -0

Drop me a PM. I can guide you on a the entry level path courses and where to get them cheap.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/28/tech/cybersecurity-labor-shortage/index.html

9
googurt 9 points ago +9 / -0

Well yeah.

4
Lordahdaring 4 points ago +4 / -0

I’m just depressed about it you’re right

5
Websitesdown 5 points ago +5 / -0

I will just say this. I know for a fact this, that's not possible with the security checks and audits that happen at this level unless it's on purpose. This is homeland security level shit.

They do fucking mental checks with a licensed smart for that matter psychiatrist, at this level if necessary.

5
Lordahdaring 5 points ago +5 / -0

Holy shit thank you! I work for medicine and jeez there’s overbite both government and professional and educational etc. I didn’t think this made freaking sense and I tend to agree 1000% because audits and standards are so freaking high. Highly unlikely it could get so bad that emails affect the dang supply. Otherwise blackmail for data? Might make more sense but makes one respect them less.

4
Websitesdown 4 points ago +4 / -0

Yeah, it's just unfeasible.

29
Saltybitch [S] 29 points ago +31 / -2

OSHA has much, much more on the topic but for a pipeline to suggest (with big doe eyes) we don't know how to work them manually, is laughable. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/192.385

7
SophiesBoyfriend 7 points ago +7 / -0

Diversity hires and affirmative action hires instead of merit based hiring cause this

23
Saltybitch [S] 23 points ago +24 / -1

So the truth is, they're actually retarded and painfully incompetent. Still, not buying it.

24
p1smo 24 points ago +24 / -0

It’s not that hard to believe. In fact I’m not surprised at all when you consider most kids nowadays can’t even change a tire.

15
TheOutlawPepeWales 15 points ago +15 / -0

This reminds me of a Joe Rogan routine. If you think people aren't that stupid, start counting masks.

18
p1smo 18 points ago +18 / -0

I like the George Carlin quote: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

9
GrayManNumber333 9 points ago +11 / -2

Trained employees operate equipment in manual all the time. Pipelines don’t usually get extremely reliable, overly redundant hardware. They get moderate quality with little or no redundancy and components fail all the time forcing operators to work in manual sometimes.

7
Trump2024 7 points ago +7 / -0

It’s not that hard to believe

It's actually almost impossible TO believe.

5
Viewer01 5 points ago +5 / -0

I'm in the chemical industry and let me tell you they're that retarded. I legit left plant life over retarded diversity hires who couldn't do a modicum of troubleshooting.

19
mestama 19 points ago +19 / -0

Wait a dang minute... I thought the only computers that were affected by the ransomware were accounting computers. I'm pretty sure that the computers running the actual pipeline machinery weren't affected.

16
GrayManNumber333 16 points ago +16 / -0

They’re lying.

9
EricCiaramellaSuxDix 9 points ago +9 / -0

Yep, even more details not adding up.

9
deleted 9 points ago +9 / -0
12
GrayManNumber333 12 points ago +12 / -0

Pipelines are more complicated than that. Yes the pipe itself is fairly simple, but there are pumps, valves, vessels, reseviours, flow control valves, flow measurement devices.

4
Yuri_Gagarin 4 points ago +4 / -0

Maybe some kind of process control? Could be complex.

4
BreadPitt 4 points ago +4 / -0

More complicated? Sure. Complicated? Not at all. Pumps add flow work and come in 2 basic varieties, positive displacement and non-positive, a flow measurement device comes in 3 basic varieties rotameter, Nutating disc and venturi (most common). Valves (high level)are simple they exist either to control pressure OR control flow and I could get into the weeds of valves, but the reason a valve is installed in a system will always be either to control pressure, or control flow

Backing out of the nuts and bolts and to the theory of fluid flow it is as simple as bernoulis equation. There is no excuse to be managing critical infrastructure and have trained, qualified operators who can't operate.

39
SnipedYou 39 points ago +39 / -0

Diversity is more important than functionality. You should've received the memo 10 years ago.

3
QLARP 3 points ago +6 / -3

Lol wut they hired young people not black people lmao

7
SophiesBoyfriend 7 points ago +7 / -0

Diversity hires and affirmative action hires instead of merit based hiring cause this

2
Lord_Kek 2 points ago +2 / -0

Absolutely correct. Diversity is all they want because foreign talent is willing to work for less.

31
cheddar 31 points ago +32 / -1

There is this thing we use sometimes, called a manual. You know, where shit is written down or drawn in a diagram to tell you how to do shit. I mean, my stupid broken juicer has one, I'm sure a multi million dollar system has one also.

14
HuggableBear 14 points ago +16 / -2

And yet your juicer is still broken.

That's the point. Just because there's a manual doesn't mean anyone will use it or even know what to do if they read it.

Hell, the manual is probably nothing more than a list of shit not to do in order to protect the device manufacturer from liability rather than actually teach anyone how to use it.

12
cheddar 12 points ago +14 / -2

Youve obviously never worked with machinery. Manuals are everything.

4
HuggableBear 4 points ago +5 / -1

Dude, I used to work in a fucking chemical factory servicing the damn machines. Fully 90% of the manual on every single one of those things was "Hey idiot, don't stick your dick in the intake or else we're not liable when it gets ripped off."

4
WhitePowerRanger 4 points ago +5 / -1

Lab tech here. You’re absolutely full of shit. Every manual on earth written for a machine is usable instructions on how to operate said machine. I bet you don’t even own a refrigerator.

1
HuggableBear 1 point ago +1 / -0

Do you really believe that the manuals will be the same for a countertop centrifuge designed to be used by research chemists and a fuel pump designed to be used by some dude that just got his GED a week ago?

You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about because you're in your lab bubble. Look at your fucking car's owner manual, dude. It tells you how to perform routine maintenance only and gives you the number for the national customer service line to find you a dealership for anything more complicated than changing a spark plug.

3
cheddar 3 points ago +3 / -0

Well shit the simulators I work on, the manuals are everything. I guess it depends how important they are. Seems a pipeline feeding oil to half the nation is pretty important.

1
HuggableBear 1 point ago +1 / -0

It's not about importance, it's about the expected knowledge level of the operators. You are running complex technological equipment. It's expected that you're going to have a minimum level of training and be able to understand more. Not only that, you're unlikely to have your hand torn to shreds if you touch the wrong thing at the wrong time.

With industrial machinery, the opposite is true. The manuals are almost exclusively warnings about what not to do because the people operating these machines are often entry-level, low skill employees. They even have multiple manuals for the machines based on what's being done. There are operator's manuals and service manuals that are completely different because different people of different skill levels are using them.

Even on very important systems you frequently have people who don't know how to do much more than push the right buttons at the right times to keep them running and have no idea why they're pushing those buttons. Hell, half the time the people pushing the buttons don't even speak English which is why manuals now are 10 times longer and in 10 different languages.

1
Lord_Kek 1 point ago +1 / -0

That's how it should be. My facility has very little dummy proofing outside of safety. Working to change that.

5
residue69 5 points ago +5 / -0

Breville Icon maybe? Probably need a new motor. The windings short before the thermal fuse blows. They could have installed a reset-able thermal breaker that tripped at a lower temperature, but decided to just let you fry the entire thing instead.

2
MauserShooter 2 points ago +2 / -0

It’s hard for that to happen, overloads trip pretty easy when they are sized correctly.

And if you did bypass a starter some how, the breaker if sized correctly would trip on a direct short. Anyone who has ever installed or trouble shooter a motor will know something is wrong immediately if it’s single phasing.

3
Hullohoomans 3 points ago +3 / -0

Large scale industrial projects that are bespoke one-of-a-kind products don't tend to have handy little quick-start manuals in 17 different languages. If anything, you'll be lucky to have manuals for all the original components in the build, as well as a schematic of the system as it was when it was originally commissioned 40 years ago, without any of the updates or retro-fits that were later added. That's assuming someone was smart enough to collect and sort all those things into a single filing cabinet for later use by people who understand how to look at a physical system and figure out how it operates. Generally, you'll have a whole bunch of manuals for individual items, and each of those manuals will have generic instructions for how to operate that one item in isolation, with no regard for the system it's a part of.

2
cheddar 2 points ago +2 / -0

Uh.... okay....

2
cheddar 2 points ago +2 / -0

Billion dollar companies, especially ones that deal with energy to half the country, and which are also a national security issue, will have technical writers on staff whose soul purpose is to take care of stuff like this.

1
Lord_Kek 1 point ago +1 / -0

Sometimes it's quirks of an industrial process that make operation more of an art, than a precise analytical skill.

24
Shmioighan 24 points ago +25 / -1

Wait until you learn about COBOL. Fucking ancient early programming language that a whole bunch of place's often critical computer infrastructure still runs on, and everyone who knows it well enough to actually manage, operate or integrate those systems are old as hell and dying off.

18
Saltybitch [S] 18 points ago +20 / -2

It's literally in OSHA'S own regulations and codes. Too many people have died because of things like shut off valves in the past. They've got this topic covered ad nauseam.

7
Trump2024 7 points ago +9 / -2

There is zero chance that the valves couldn't be operated manually in a power outage.

You are the only one in this thread that unequivocally knows what they are talking about. Thank you for being the educated voice of reason. Seriously.

12
thisisatestof2 12 points ago +12 / -0

Last March/April during Rona, CT, was begging people who had COBOL experience to come back to work because the unemployment system couldn't handle the influx of applications or unable to pay out the new rates because no one had experience to even know how fix it.

I've read the big issue was people who came in found little to no documentation on any of the changes done over the decades to it.

13
TheOutlawPepeWales 13 points ago +14 / -1

I used to be a COBOL-400 programmer for Uncle Sam (you'd be surprised how much of the government's critical operations are still dependent on these old mainframes) and I never documented my code because A) I'm a busy man and I don't have time to hold your hand, and B) it's a simple, straightforward language and if you can't follow the logic then you have no business fucking with shit that's above your pay grade. People have been saying for decades that COBOL is dead, so few bother to learn it anymore, but it's not going anywhere anytime soon. I think the issue you describe has more to do with the fact that political bean-counters are stingy bastards and so the "people who came in" weren't the cream of the crop. The government is so bloated that the cost of a true modernization would be astronomical, so they just slap on another half-assed patch and kick the can down the road. With the low supply and high demand for people who know what the hell they're doing there are still a lot of lucrative opportunities for experienced code monkeys. Honestly though, if you want job security then learn a trade like carpentry or blacksmithing. The internet is a house built on sand, but no matter what happens to society, whether civilization prospers or collapses, there will always be a need for skilled craftsmen.

5
justicein2020 5 points ago +5 / -0

I know an old guy who works for us customs dept. their shit is all mainframes still!

he gets paid crazy, crazy cash and works about 40 hours in an entire year. and officially he's retired because he's almost 80.

7
HuggableBear 7 points ago +7 / -0

I learned basic COBOL 30 years ago and even then it was being taught as a legacy language just to understand how modern languages had developed and it was only used to teach you how computers think.

I doubt any real comp sci department has taught COBOL in anything but a history class for 20 years.

5
2016TrumpMAGA 5 points ago +5 / -0

I was asking "why the fuck are we using this outdated shit?" over 35 years ago when I first ran into COBOL.

3
EricCiaramellaSuxDix 3 points ago +3 / -0

I know this story all too well.

23
LostViking1985 23 points ago +23 / -0

Do you want Warhammer 40K technological stagnation and mysticism? Because this is how it starts. One day, some Pipeline Acolyte will wonder why his Prayer of Reboot isn't appeasing the Machine Spirit. The Techpriest will declare the pipeline tainted by Chaos and have the entire pipeline destroyed, and every acolyte put to death.

4
8
RagnarD 8 points ago +8 / -0

Science as a whole is a product of Western modernity

She has it completely backwards. In the really real world, Western modernity is a product of science. That's both sad and scary.

2
flashersenpai 2 points ago +2 / -0

lul

2
Saltybitch [S] 2 points ago +3 / -1

🤣🤣🤣 Love it.

20
Nasty_Savage 20 points ago +20 / -0

Taking this at face value…you mean to tell me you have enough to pay a ransom, but not enough to train employees to be able to bypass a computer system in critical United States infrastructure? Everyone at the management level should immediately be fired.

6
Lobo 6 points ago +6 / -0

This is the type of shit that made me go off and start working as my own boss.

5
HeavyVetting 5 points ago +5 / -0

Companies often can't find the time or money to do things right until they are forced to find the time and money to do it over again once it all falls apart.

19
bill_in_texas 19 points ago +19 / -0

I have seen this first hand. One of our customers sold one of their PPL's to another PPL company. All the hands, including the field guys and board operators in the control room had to reapply for their jobs. Some were not hired by the new company. Some of the guys who lost their jobs were field folks, the ones that get called when something happens out in the boonies. Yes, most of the time they really didn't do much, but they had knowledge. They knew and had rapport with landowners, they knew where the stopples, exposures, block valves, etc. were, and how to operate the block valves manually. All that experience......gone. They didn't even pull a Disney and train replacements....there were no replacements.

They also ended up blowing out the existing contractors, so that knowledge base vanished, too. Lots of pipeline operations and maintenance is knowing how to access the pipeline.

12
ChickNorris 12 points ago +12 / -0

have seen similar with regard to large computer networks. Older experienced guys built the backbone of the network for major orgs, the older guys don't really document or pass down their knowledge to the newbies, newer generation onboards and something goes wrong with the backbone of the network... they don't know what to do. They don't have the historical knowledge of how that network was built. Network would be down for days until someone could finally figure it all out.

10
Faraday27 10 points ago +10 / -0

"We build our computer (systems) the way we build our cities: over time, without a plan, on top of ruins."

– Ellen Ullman

1
ChickNorris 1 point ago +1 / -0

This explains it so well. Great quote.

3
OhLollyLollyPop 3 points ago +3 / -0

How could the network not be documented?

6
justicein2020 6 points ago +7 / -1

Documenting everything is a relatively recent thing that's only become standard in the last ~25 years.

When 'lifetime career' got replaced by 'job'.

And in many cases the docs are incomplete. They're the ideal baseline and don't include all the fixes and workarounds that build up over time.

5
ChickNorris 5 points ago +6 / -1

IDK. We're talking back in the very beginning of internet usage going mainstream. A lot of the network was flying by the seat of their pants back then. The old school guys had all this institutional knowledge. It was in their head and often they didn't want to share it with the newbies.

1
Gyrfalcon 1 point ago +1 / -0

older guys don't really document or pass down their knowledge to the newbies,

Management usually considered documentation a waste of time. "Get back to coding. We don't have anyplace to keep all that crap."

2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
18
deleted 18 points ago +19 / -1
20
Saltybitch [S] 20 points ago +22 / -2

Look, these boys were no doubt trained to the point they could do this shit in their sleep. This fucker is literally out of his mind if he thinks anyone will buy this bullshit. It's beyond absurd.

1
deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
16
Pandas4Trump 16 points ago +16 / -0

-Just love tap the pressure guage a couple times for a correct reading. It's not going to make the gas go boom boom.
-Stop overtightening shit.
-Stop leaving explosives outside during thunderstorms.

You are now more qualified than most of their staff

8
Trump2024 8 points ago +8 / -0

And if it starts making a wonky noise, you'll know it when you hear it, go kick the framistance on the left side with a steel toed boot.

Source, myself- lifelong turbo encabulator mechanic

5
peterstrzoked 5 points ago +5 / -0

That was awesome, thanks for sharing!

2
Trump2024 2 points ago +2 / -0

😀👍

15
googurt 15 points ago +16 / -1

The modern oilfield is full of shit like let this. No knowledge "skilled" labor and computers. Only people that understand these systems are either retired or work for a 3rd party contractor and they ain't going on the clock for some shit like this.

12
deleted 12 points ago +12 / -0
10
EricCiaramellaSuxDix 10 points ago +10 / -0

Idiocracy is coming sooner than people realize.

1
DonuteaterReturns 1 point ago +1 / -0

Why can't they get local girls?

9
ironhorse 9 points ago +9 / -0

Let me guess....He was or has plans to ask the Government for a handout to train his college edumacated employees on how to perform manual labor?

9
Rubberbunnies 9 points ago +9 / -0

This should not be surprising to anyone. What was that meme again?

Something something millennials think they are smarter, but owner manuals 50 years ago taught you how to adjust the valves on your car, today they tell you not to drink battery acid.

We need to go back before we really move forward. Complete redo on everything in the last 75 years, don’t do biz with China, execute Marxists.

9
DebbieinDallas 9 points ago +9 / -0

People here were wondering at the time why they didn’t just operate the pipeline manually. Now we know. Young snotface snowflake millennials who don’t know a damn thing about anything. I knew this was going to happen when in 1976 Texas Instruments came out with their pocket calculators. I have been practicing math in my head ever since. My 90 yo mother too at the grocery store tallies everything up in her head.

10
Saltybitch [S] 10 points ago +15 / -5

No. That's not what's happening here. OSHA would never allow one of the largest pipelines in existence to function without everyone being highly and repeatedly trained. This guy is lying his balls off.

5
sordid_sloth 5 points ago +7 / -2

I agree. I've never worked on a pipeline, but I've worked in other industrial setting with lots of pipes. I ran air lines, water lines, gas lines, etc. You don't work around that sort of thing without being familiar with how a system works. Its not that hard to figure out which valve to open. One thing to note is since the pipeline is so long and spread out it would have probably required a decent amount of manpower and coordination; Its not like having to manually override something in a small plant.

5
deleted 5 points ago +5 / -0
3
PraiseBeToScience 3 points ago +3 / -0

Would OSHA actually verify it or just require 'annual training'? Because I've seen enough to fully believe it would be the latter. "Yeah sure they're all trained, uh huh. Oh we'd love to show you but we'd have to stop operations and, you know, the oil must flow!"

8
ABrainDisease 8 points ago +9 / -1

It sounds like Atlas Shrugged...Competent people have moved on and now the infrastructure is breaking down.

8
BreadPitt 8 points ago +8 / -0

So I was a mechanic for 10 years in the navy, I operated and maintained numerous sea water systems, freshwater systems, lube oil systems. I know its not an apples to apples comparison but the laws of physics don't change. These systems are not incredibly complex (by design, warships have possibly the most complex due to the limited space and number of scenarios requiring redundancies and/or cross connections and they're still pretty simple). Pipes, pumps, hx's and valves is all it is. Fluid flow dynamics, and hL curves (RSL is more technically correct since I assume the pipeline is not a closed loop system) are very intuitive and straight forward. Like, we cover this stuff in week 2 of training before we even bother to tell them what uranium is and why we use it. So I'm honestly besides myself angry about this. You mean to tell me the government can make a regulation about every facet of the energy industry and not require that the operators know how to operate?

1
PraiseBeToScience 1 point ago +1 / -0

I think I'd feel more comfortable fucking around with water flow than oil flow. At least the water doesn't explode in a world-ending fireball.

1
BreadPitt 1 point ago +1 / -0

As a sailor, I was more afraid of the water than the oil. Definitely didn't want to go 3-section with the thresher and the scorpion so when you put a seawater system back together you make sure you got I right, by that I mean you have to prove you did it right, I was one of the only people on my boat qualified QAI that was allowed to sign that really important paperwork that allows us to get underway doing what we do best putting fucking warheads on foreheads, killing commies for mommies and making it rain fire on a bunch of goat fuckers who want me to call Jesus mohammed. When you take apart and put together an oil system no one gives a flying dog shit. That's a Hong Kong no shitter you can take that to the bank.

It's hard to believe, but its true. Look up Fire tetrahedron for yourself if u have to. Fire triangle, is commonly taught but only tetrahedron accounts for the self-sustaining chemical reaction turning the fuel to a vapor. This is why u can throw a match in a gas can and it doesn't burn, because liquids don't burn. Now same experiment, take that gas, spread it over an area which would make it more volatile (evaporates) and it will burn very easily because it evaporates quickly and those vapors are flammable.

6
Judgejude 6 points ago +6 / -0

Liars. Every last one of them. Covering up for the corruption and plan to shut down America’s energy independence. Fuck them all.

6
Walleye-vision71 6 points ago +6 / -0

I think that answer is the absolute truth. You picture the faggots of today out in the sun or cold wrestling the handle of a 24” gate valve?

5
Dirkstruan313 5 points ago +5 / -0

This is literally everywhere in this country. We are living in the ruins of our own civilization because cronyism promotes the stupid and lazy. We will never build great things ever again because we have forgotten the reason why we ever did. We live in cardboard homes with plastic floors and press board cabinets that are easily disposed of. We sickeningly chasing fads instead of being grounded in our forefathers traditions. Men and women alike seek only the momentary pleasure of vice and not the rapture and bliss of unity. We are a sickly beast that labors for breath and the sooner the fire comes the better off we will all be. There is no community. Just shells of strangers we live near. There is no America. It died bleeding out on the floor of the Capitol Building. Gasping for its last breaths; shedding a single tear for the death of a dream. Brace for the fall and steel your heart.

2
POOP_SMEARED_TITTIES 2 points ago +2 / -0

It's time we face the truth. Freedom...peace...America...it's all shit. Just a mountain of shit, every bit of it. Face it. No one's got the willpower to set things right. They won't do what it takes. Look deep inside yourself. You KNOW it's true, because it hurts. It takes a true patriot to summon the will to face reality in all its darkness. To stare straight into the abyss and do what must be done.

Remember: Patriots are not born, they are made. And the only thing that can unmake us is that which drove us to rise above in the first place. Most people keep that thing locked in the deepest cellars of their mind. So deep they forget what it is. They keep it buried like a horrible secret.They feed it through the cracks in the floorboards out of a sickening sense of nostalgia. Just enough to keep it alive. And yet it still comes to us in moments of weakness, unbidden, a source of shame and panic....

The day will come when we need to take a shotgun to that cellar, shoot whatever is down there in the head, and walk away, never looking back. Only then will we be free to live. If we can make this last sacrifice we will finally know happiness.

4
MocksFordComma 4 points ago +4 / -0

This is negligent management. In a functioning economy, the board and ceo would be called into a meeting an fired.

4
to2020andbeyond 4 points ago +4 / -0

I saw this in my years at IBM, automation made it all push a button and magic occurs. The old guys knew all the steps that went into the automation and could work around it in a pinch.

4
LibertyPrimeWasRight 4 points ago +4 / -0

What the fuck kind of godawful training do you have? No one knows how to keep shit running when your systems break?

You have no backup plans, not because they’d be too hard to implement, but because you had the knowledge and didn’t bother to retain it?

Holy fuck. If, I don’t know, some modern office said this, I’d get it... but you are literally critical infrastructure.

4
GeneralVeers 4 points ago +4 / -0

Heh. I see a lot of skeptics in here.

People really can be that dumb. People get so used to technology that they forget how the same jobs were done before technology existed. Here's my personal favorite. TRUE STORY.

Paramedics respond to a car accident. They find an injured guy, they ask him if there's anybody he wants contacted.

Injured guy: "Yeah, call my brother."

Paramedics: "What's your brother's phone number?"

Injured guy: "Two."

Paramedics: "Beg pardon??"

Injured guy: "Two. That's his entry on my speed dialer."

The dude had become so used to the speed dialer, that he forgot his own brother's phone number.

3
DonuteaterReturns 3 points ago +3 / -0

I don't remember many phone numbers anymore. They're all in my contacts on my phone.

2
SisterCovfefe 2 points ago +2 / -0

Me either, but I can remember the number from my parents house when I was in 2nd grade...

1
GeneralVeers 1 point ago +1 / -0

Someday, inevitably, your phone will break. You'll lose it, or it will glitch and blank the memory card, or a neutron bomb will land just a bit too close to your house and fry the electronics, or----

Okay, yeah, went overboard with the disasters gag. :)

Keep your important numbers written down somewhere. On paper.

4
AllTheWayTrump 4 points ago +4 / -0

Diversity

4
blueeyephoto 4 points ago +4 / -0

How do you not cross train new employees and leave yourself with no one that can operate your machinery?

3
G_regulator 3 points ago +3 / -0

Bullshit. If you can figure out how to open a door you can figure out how to open a valve.

3
EdgeGuy 3 points ago +3 / -0

Did a job at an international company on the factory floor filming an old employee explaining the entire process of his job. Why? Because he's getting ready to retire and no one else knows how to do it.

3
Easter_Bunny 3 points ago +3 / -0

I'm sorry to say that it was probably a truthful answer.

3
hillaryprison 3 points ago +3 / -0

I don't believe it. I think likely there was inside coordination who worked with the hackers to split ransom profits. There's no way not 1 person in an entire pipeline company knows how to turn the pipe on or off.

3
deleted 3 points ago +6 / -3
6
Saltybitch [S] 6 points ago +7 / -1

I saw it on telegram, thank you very much.

3
HowDoILogIn 3 points ago +3 / -0

Got a family member who used to work for AT&T and the same thing can be said for most of our communications infrastructure as well. Before old guys can retire they get fired so the companies don't have to pay out the pensions, fast forward to nowadays and all of Comcast in Chicago lost internet for like two hours yesterday because people are just learning how to sort-of make shit work.

Corporate America hates you.

3
EricCiaramellaSuxDix 3 points ago +4 / -1

This is also a company that apparently had no choice but to pay ransomware attackers to get their files decrypted.

Sadly, I buy it.

Actually seems pretty spot on for any big company that's in an easy money market. Little things like this can easily fall by the wayside without affecting the bottom line for decades. But the debt piles up and when it suddenly does cause problems, they're disastrous.

4
OhLollyLollyPop 4 points ago +4 / -0

Sounds just like the Texas grid situation. A bunch of board members that don't know what they are doing, and many aren't even Texas residents.

3
Amaroq64 3 points ago +3 / -0

That's a bit of a lesser known eye-opener to me. The Texas power grid is being centrally managed by the energy-equivalent of the Federal Reserve: A pseudo-private organization created by the government, with the board appointed by the government and answers to the government.

I tried to raise awareness about this back when it happened, but my threads about it wouldn't take off.

https://patriots.win/p/12i3ucbRWK/what-you-didnt-know-about-the-de/

3
PraiseBeToScience 3 points ago +3 / -0

You seem to be unfamiliar with how stupid corporate America can be. I 100% believe this.

Dude fucking look at Colt, the gun company. Same goddamn story, really. Colt had tons of success with their Snake series revolvers. Python, Anaconda, they were staples. All of them were hand-fitted and hand-made.

Colt then got military contracts and fired everybody who could make the revolvers and basically said 'fuck the civilian market we don't need you'.

Colt then had basically only one product on the shelf - their AR15s, which were somewhat overpriced, but people got them for their military pedigree since they were made on the same lines as M4s and M16s. Colt was also one of the only names in AR15s, too.

Two things happened next: 1) A fucking billion goddamn companies learned how piss-easy it is to make and sell AR15s, and 2) Colt then lost the contract to FN.

Colt now has no more money flowing in. All they have are their AR15s which people don't care about anymore. So why doesn't Colt bring back the revolvers? Because everybody they fired, who knew how to hand-fit them, fucking retired or died.

Colt is now fucking bankrupt and owned by the Czechs.

Corporate America is blisteringly fucking stupid. The lust for money will always win over doing something sensible or just being kind of decent guys people want to do business with, especially if you have shareholders or a board to answer to.

3
Grymmstrife 3 points ago +3 / -0

So if I understand this correctly all they had to do was pick up the phone and call one of the retired guys? But they didn't?

2
Pepbrandt 2 points ago +2 / -0

Soyboys can’t even tie a shoe without it being a dramatic event. “Oh loops make nauseous. I think I sprained a finger joint.” You think they can run a fracking pipeline?

2
ocdpepe 2 points ago +2 / -0

What is retarded about it? Most places can't even find employees to work. I read something funny the other day. In 1950 your new vehicle owners manual had instructions to adjust your valves today your manual instructs you to not drink the contents of your battery. We are entering a time where prior generations built out infrastructure and the younger generation has no idea how to maintain it. A huge portion of the newer generations do not even own hand tools.

2
BurtMcGirt 2 points ago +2 / -0

But we must automate ourselves out of jobs!

/s

2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
2
Standingoak 2 points ago +2 / -0

Put SUPREMACIST college graduates in charge , they think all the deplorables are interchangeable.

2
LostSailor 2 points ago +2 / -0

Unions. They really so keep America running 🤣🤣🤣

2
Lord_Kek 2 points ago +2 / -0

I work in manufacturing and we are slowly digitalizing. I can definitely believe this. We have not nurtured our talent. We're bleeding knowledge every year. Skill gaps are a major source of loss for us, probably our largest.

2
deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
2
Kaiheitai 2 points ago +2 / -0

I'm going to call bullshit on this.

2
DragonEnergy2 2 points ago +2 / -0

Agreed. Obvious oil price manipulation play, because no one will call them on it.

2
dagoat4l 2 points ago +2 / -0

Sounds normal today. Most things can run production manually its automated. But this was a inside job. No way they left their money in bitcoin. You move it to a crypto that can't be tracked.

1
iIndianaJones 1 point ago +1 / -0

Wait, what?

1
deleted 1 point ago +1 / -0
1
rufrignkidnme 1 point ago +1 / -0

maybe bring in a plumber to consult.

1
clocker23 1 point ago +1 / -0

There's probably some sci-fi story in there ...

1
SisterCovfefe 1 point ago +1 / -0

Not surprised.

After my uncle retired from the phone company he made big $$ working part time troubleshooting the old system. He learned communications in the Navy during the Korean War era.

1
MudDog 1 point ago +1 / -0

How hard could it be? Open the valve and stuff goes through the pipe.