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deleted 50 points ago +50 / -0
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FLPede 18 points ago +18 / -0

My sister was on dialysis for 5 years as well, finally dying from a heart attack.

I was shocked to learn the amount charged for dialysis treatments. Home dialysis machines run between $400 and $4,000. The average salary for a dialysis nurse in my state is $62,000 for a 40 hour week. A dialysis patient is on the machine about 15 hours a week.

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deleted 10 points ago +10 / -0
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Smurfection 7 points ago +7 / -0

I am sorry for your loss. You and your family are in my prayers.

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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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FreedomBoner13 28 points ago +31 / -3

This probably won't be popular, but there are some things that just are crazy expensive. My wife is a physician, and I remember her telling me about what was necessary for one specific test that they do. I don't remember what one, but it required an isotope to be spun up in a special centrifuge that had a half life of like 6 hours, so it had to flown in special from the centrifuge sight each time the test was performed. That would obviously create some staggering costs. Sometimes there are some crazy things going on in medicine that most people have no idea about. Not saying it is the case here, but just because it is expensive, doesn't mean that people are getting screwed over.

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chelthing 25 points ago +25 / -0

I figured some things are legitimately expensive, but these insurance and other medical companies have to be fudging a lot. An itemized bill from an emergency visit I had couple of years ago listed saline injections around $750 per unit. Unbelievable.

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cuhboose 11 points ago +11 / -0

Well the insurance companies are the rip off part. Pay them when your healthy but fuck yourself when you need to use it.

Should just have your family member renounce citizenship, become illegal and bam, free healthcare plus government handout.

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lolpaladins 5 points ago +5 / -0

It’s not free, it’s just spending our tax dollars inefficiently.

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Pearls_Swine 9 points ago +9 / -0

When I was a very young adult, I went into the ER for some lesion that I had on my skin. They took my information at the front and asked me to sit down. After a couple of hours a nurse came and walked me to a bed. After an hour of waiting in the bed I finally got tired of waiting and just left. Weeks later, I get a bill from the hospital for $300.

That's how much it cost me to receive no medical treatment.

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AOCDickPics 7 points ago +8 / -1

My wife had an ER visit for 3k out of pocket where they just said "go see your normal doctor tomorrow".

She sat on an ER bed for 3 hours and talked to a nurse for 30 minutes.

We didn't bother paying it.

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latsbruh 5 points ago +6 / -1

i think i read they charge you per glove that they use as well, like $40 each individual glove. Theres a bunch of things they charge for and the insurance companies just pay it. The entire medical industry would collapse if it wasnt for insurance and government subsidies.

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WarViper1337 1 point ago +1 / -0

Mostly not true anymore. Certain procedures may charge for the equipment that was used but things like gloves are rolled into the cost of operating the facility.

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FireannDireach 1 point ago +1 / -0

I don't know about that - I don't know if it's true or not, or if what I saw personally was just that floor/circumstances, but when my mom was dying of cancer, the nurses gave us supplies constantly - dressings, gloves, etc. Even showed us the supply closet for when they were too busy - and none of it showed up on the bill. I'd bring her homes with stacks of things we needed - and we didn't need it financially, mom had a pretty large estate from my dad and damned good insurance (who still fought us on paying for things)(That's a whole other rant.)

The real soak was the room, and the doctor's fees.

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TrumpTrainForever 4 points ago +4 / -0

If they were on shortage at the time, yes, they were likely almost that expensive.

When I worked in the hospital we spent $500k a month on shortage magnesium for a 500 bed hospital.

Sometimes shit gets retarded expensive 🤷🏼‍♂️

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megxit 10 points ago +10 / -0

You're missing the point.

How many people got Obama Phones for free? How much money was spent researching the mating habits of butterflies? How much money was spent on LGBTXYZS in the middle east?

Things are the way they are because they are designed that way, not because of some inevitability.

2
melonfelon 2 points ago +3 / -1

I don't think obama should have handed out the phones for free. It likely still cost less than some medical procedures.

I think everyone agrees that Apple products are sold at a high premium. Lots of that money is sent to R&D. When you sell 3 billion phones, spreading that R&D cost out to something affordable is easy. When there is some rare disease that only a few thousand people have worldwide, all that R&D cost is shouldered upon the poor victims. There is no other option. If there was no way to recover their costs, the sufferers would all die. They either die from lack of money or lack of technology.

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megxit 2 points ago +3 / -1

Thanks for playing but you still don't get it.

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MurmaidMan 9 points ago +9 / -0

The issue isn't just the real cost, it's the lack of insentive to reduce costs. The industry benifits from the wealth redistribution inherent in expensive treatments. We will never know if their was a cheaper option over the absurdly delicate test you described. The incentive is to maintain expensive treatments, maintain the pharmasuitical cost power structure. In fact I would go as far as to say that big pharma is more incsntivised to produce sick people who require indefinite treatment than cures. Enter the age of covid....

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IntrepidBurger 6 points ago +6 / -0

There are also drugs that ended up costing hundreds of millions to produce but only benefit a tiny number of people. Pharmas recoup those costs with massive bills per dose they sell, even if manufacturing of that item is relatively straightforward.

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TheWiseBuffalo 1 point ago +1 / -0

I mean its fucking retarded to think a quick treatment should be cheap with zero context on what's actually required for said treatment .

That being said I once went in to get 5 stitches and an XRay from broken glass and that shit cost $500. Now that I don't understand because such supplies are so widely used and common it just doesn't make any sense.

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ltbadpuppy 11 points ago +12 / -1

So a medical procedure for an illness that would normally kill them is expensive? Oh. No? Better to go to the UK or Canada where they would go “you need monthly treatments to live? Beat I can do is one treatment a year and a half from now.”

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Leb99 0 points ago +6 / -6

Yeah, people in the rest of the world where they have free universal healthcare die like flies everyday. Literally pile of bodies around any hospital because the don't get treatment. If only the could have the glorious USA healthcare insurance.

Have you see the mortality in France, Denmark or Swisse? Death panel everywhere..

Be serious please, the problem is that you cannot run the healthcare as a for profit service. Also, public insurance is exactly as having an health insurance but you just cut the for profit parassite that won't give any treatment because the want your money, not saving your life.

And by the way, in uk, france & co thay also have health insurance and private doctors that you can visit any time you want without having to wait years..

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RichardNoggin 8 points ago +8 / -0

That was a lot of nonsense. Any enterprise where people have to spend the majority of their lives going to school to be skilled is going to have to pay those people accordingly. I'll thank you to NOT turn over Healthcare to the government who has bankrupted every institution they've become involved with. The free market WITHOUT the corrupting influence of the government and big pharma will be the answer. Those other countries elites come here for major medical issues for a reason.

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Leb99 0 points ago +4 / -4

Good. Are you a temporarily embarrassed millionaire? Why so many people have a go found me page for their medical emergency? Why you pay thousand of dollars in insurance and them you have copay, out of network doctors and so on? Why so many people take an uber instead of an ambulance? Is it normal? Do you think that doctors in the rest of the world are some witch doctors that don't study as much as the americans?

Also, how many Americans go to mexico for affordable health care?

If you are a milionarie you can go to america, but if you are a normal citizens where are you going to go?

If you loose your job where is your insurance? Also by the way, by nobody talk about death panels when insurance denies treatments?

The free market worked wonderfully in the '08 when so many peole were fucked by the banks, remember?

Do you really trust your life to people that have as only interest making money out of your skin to treat you? Really, the get more moneys when they deny you treatments than when they give you.

TLDR if you are rich you can go to the usa, if you are not rich and american better go to mexico.. https://www.newsweek.com/thousands-americans-cross-border-mexico-affordable-medical-treatment-each-1426943

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RichardNoggin 5 points ago +5 / -0

Simple solution. Eat right, exercise, and the little Healthcare you'll need beyond that won't make you homeless. See? Easy and only one paragraph.

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Oceanolyyyyy 2 points ago +2 / -0

Remember that little British boy who the UK government decided would die rather than try an experimental treatment in the USA?

He proved you wrong.

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Leb99 -1 points ago +1 / -2

How many people got treatments refused because are labelled as not necessary? Or giving an astronomical bill because the doctor Is out of network? Also public healthcare doesn't mean that you cannot have private clinics or doctors or insurances. Even if the kid was american the insurances could have denied the treatment or he would have to open a go found me ti pay for it, so not the best example. By the way if insurances are the best, why they're afraid of universal healthcare? Why you want account profit of your health? For profit means that they cut the expense and overbill you and when it comes for your health you cannot have an alternative.

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Oceanolyyyyy 2 points ago +2 / -0

Yeah, people not getting necessary treatments and fees for out of network doctors and the like is not the fault of for profit/privatized healthcare. You can thank the lawmakers and regulators who write these provisions.

I have two people in my family who had to go to Mexico and Switzerland for private cancer treatments. Those treatments did in months what socialized healthcare couldn’t do in years.

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ltbadpuppy 2 points ago +2 / -0

The idea that people are dying in those countries because they can’t get treatment isn’t new. That’s why certain cancers for like prostate and various other cancers are significantly higher than the USA. I’m not claiming there are piles of bodies but there are countless amounts of people that die in those countries every day because they couldn’t see a doctor for months.

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Leb99 1 point ago +1 / -0

And how is different from people that cannot afford or have treatments denied? Also what countries? Uk, Germany, Spain, France, Italy? Why the USA have the highest maternal mortality? https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries

How many people don't go to the doctor because are afraid of the bill or copay & co? Is normal that if you go to your hospital and if you got a different doctor you have to pay even if you are insured because he's out of your network? Big Pharma are bad as insurances, you are just a number to be squeezed, not cured.

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ltbadpuppy 2 points ago +2 / -0

Why the USA have the highest maternal mortality?

Because the way that each country counts infant mortality is fundamentally different. If the USA counts it mortality rate similar to any of those countries we would probably be a country with the lowest infant mortality.

Here's a link that explains these things. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161013103132.htm

Is normal that if you go to your hospital and if you got a different doctor you have to pay even if you are insured because he's out of your network?

That wouldn't happen because the hospital would be the one accepting your insurance in the first place, not your doctor at the hospital. Now if it was a specialist that your insurance says you don't need/ isn't covered, say a plastic surgeon, then yeah it wouldn't work.

I agree that insurance is fucking awful, blame obamacare who shoved a bunch of shit through an already breaking machine. However, lack of information and making shit up isn't helping or allowing a rational discussion.

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Leb99 0 points ago +1 / -1

Yes, it's true that, but in the link provided what about that "The major issue of the lack of universal access to quality prenatal care should also be considered in any discussion of preterm births and infant mortality. Also, because about 50 percent of pregnancies in the United States are unplanned, some women might not be aware they are pregnant in time to get early prenatal care, and this may be part of the reason for premature births in this country"

and "Social programs in many European countries that provide free home visits from nurses for new parents might help increase protective factors and decrease risky ones. The nurses can give the baby a checkup, but perhaps more importantly, they can provide advice for preventing SIDS and can inspect the home for possible hazards. Although some of these home-visit programs exist in the United States, they are not nearly as widespread as they are in other countries." also "Parental leave policies have tremendous influence on health outcomes for both mom and baby, as well as long-term economic impact," McKyer said. "Studies show that in countries where there is a generous parental leave policy, there are tremendous effects on morbidity and mortality rates of infants and young children. They're considerably less likely to get sick enough to require hospitalization or to die. Again, it's investing on the front end so that we're not paying on the back end."

In the end the lack of access to nurses and doctors and general healthcare results in kid death.

But some people only care about the fetus and limiting abortions, when the kids are born better to pull their bootstraps and carry on.

Also the concept of having basically only health insurance is insane.

Let's see the process. You pay the premium for you insurance (you pay taxes for universal healthcare). Then you pool the resources from the paid premium (also, taxes collected).

When you are not using your health insurance you don't benefit it directly and your money are used to pay treatments for other people (as the treatment as more expensive than what you pay). The same applies for universal healthcare.

The key difference is that then on top of that you have to pay thousands of accountants, manager & co of the insurances companies, that take milions in bonus as CEO & co. Also their mission is not treat you, but make more money as possibile for the companies, so refusing treatments, copay & co.

Also you have all the in network/out of network infrastructure. One hospital is okay, another maybe not. The ambulance is covered or not?

And finally, if your insurance is tied to your job and you're laid off, what happens?

If you employer his giving you a shitty insurance?

Better to have a universal health care and then if you want having the private sector and insurance. But ask yourself, when not treating you gives them more profit, what would they do?

I don't see in europe people dying on the streets and for every exceptional case how many peole in USA face bankrupt or have to open a go found me account to get treated?

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yudsfpbc 7 points ago +10 / -3

We can make medical care as cheap as smart phones. Here's how. (Your dad is going to die, unfortunately.)

Make consumers pay their own bills. No subsidies for the poor, no "health insurance", nothing.

Make sure that patients agree to the costs before any procedure is done. If the patient isn't conscious, then someone must agree to pay the bill before work can be done. Or maybe the individual agrees to certain costs in advance before they become unconscious. Regardless, there MUST be the element of choice, and there MUST be some sort of bidding war when it comes time to treat a patient.

How can doctors and hospitals make money in such an environment? They will inevitably increase capacity -- treating more patients in a day. They will also find cheap and affordable treatments that are effective.

If you are one of those poor people who end up with a condition where the only treatment options cost more than your house, then you have to choose whether you want the treatment, knowing the cost in advance.

This is important: The entire medical industry will switch from finding treatments they can bill Medicare/Medicaid for to finding cheap and affordable yet effective treatments. Medical innovators will run advertisements that say something like: "Are you diagnosed with X? Then you need to try our treatment plan because it costs only $Y and has a 20% success rate, compared to the competitor's treatment plan which costs 10x as much but is only has a 10% success rate."

While only rich people can afford expensive treatments, eventually they will discover ways to bring those costs down. People who pioneer innovative treatments will try to find ones that cost less and are more effective.

See, today's medical industry is suffering from a classic problem in economics called "perverse incentives". In these conditions, people pursue behavior that seems beneficial to them, but ultimately leads to disastrous results. Researchers focus solely on medical innovation, emphasizing treatments that will get approval from Medicare/Medicaid, no matter what the cost or efficacy is. Doctors get paid more to do expensive procedures. Drug companies make more money the more expensive the drugs are. Why? Because the consumers of those resources are not in control of deciding whether the treatments are worth it and how much they are willing to pay for it. And so costs go up, and there's no one to ask, "Does this sound reasonable?"

If we were to switch back to a system based on sane principles such as balancing the costs and the needs of the patient with the resources available, and innovating to find better and cheaper alternatives, then we would eventually reach a state where even the poorest of the poor can afford life-saving treatments for the most common diseases. While the rich would only be able to afford the most expensive treatments for the most rare diseases, over time those costs will come down.

Most importantly, people will be held to account for their behavior with their pocketbooks. If you want to live a risky life, then you will end up paying for it, not someone else.

The sad truth is that once we start bringing these reforms into practice, there will be a lot of treatments no one is willing to pay for nor can they afford. This includes a lot of "life saving" treatments that didn't exist 20 or 30 years ago, that were invented not to bring cheap and affordable yet effective treatments to the masses, but to make CEOs and medical researchers very rich.

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Ifeargovtmorethan 7 points ago +7 / -0

I am reminded of what an Oncologist told me once.....everyone thinks these treatments are expensive and not worth it until it's their child, spouse, parent, or sibling on the death bed. These treatments are in many cases are a total long shot but in America we like to never give up and win. It then begs the question.....What is one extra month of life worth? I don't have the answer......

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RiverFenix 8 points ago +8 / -0

Sounds like extortion by the medical professionals.

If they could save a life, regardless of personal expense, is it 'worth it'? Evidently not.

I agree with OP who you were replying to - unfortunately that sort of reform would take TOTAL participation of the society and also actively try to fix the greed-industry at the core of present medicine.

If there is a tree sap that will cure your skin cancer, but it's nearly free, I have NO doubt it's actively suppressed in multiple avenues from customs to FDA to local supply and public knowledge of it's potential uses. Like Hydroxychloroquine. Fauci knew since 2005 that it could save everyone - but who else knew?

How many of us knew? That's not necessarily 'our fault' for not knowing this very important information. How do you start OPs suggestion without... serious inquiries into where we are and how we got to this point. Evil needs to be rooted.

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KartoffelPuffer 3 points ago +3 / -0

You've described medical treatment in this country up until about 60 years ago - with the one minor exception that "major medical" insurance was available. This problem will only be fixed when insurance companies are removed from participation.

I agree with pretty much everything you've written, but it's going to take a lot of pressure from the medical consumer to make it happen.

We need to contact our representative and tell them to legislate that only doctors/RNs/PAs/Dentist/medical facilities/etc. are licensed to provide patients with optional coverage policies. Cut the national insurance industry out completely, or only permit them to provide major medical.

Doctor provided insurance is allowed in FL and it makes a huge difference with chronic treatment and when the shit hits the fan.

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Mathelm 2 points ago +2 / -0

Problem is People really don't want to die (the selfish bastards).
With some medical issues, ie. genetic, people are willing to do anything to live and sometimes do anything to make the pain stop.
With how much the US. Gov spends on total bullshit, PERSONALLY I would like the US Gov. to buy the patent for a product. So Pay the R&D + Fee to a company that makes a good drug. THEN lease out the ability to make the drug (giving the R&D company a 1-4% royalty to keep the R&D coming) Because I really need my medications and don't want to die.

It's the number one issue keeping me from coming back to America, I'm trapped in a healthcare prison.

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yudsfpbc 3 points ago +3 / -0

You have to consciously choose freedom over captivity. My ancestors fled the comforts of life and chose a life where they would build their own house with an axe and nothing else. They suffered all sorts of bad stuff just so they could have a few freedoms.

I believe we are at the point when we should ask people, straight up, if they would prefer slavery or freedom. Not some mishmash of indentured servitude or consumerist/desk job, but straight up: Would you rather sleep on the ground and be free, owing nothing to anyone and being owed nothing, or would you rather have all the video games you can play and a day job that doesn't require critical thinking but at least you get a 100 square foot area you can almost call your own.

And those that choose prison can live the rest of their life knowing they sold themselves into slavery. While the rest of us will die younger but die free.

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Chuj 5 points ago +5 / -0

What lung therapy is given twice a month? Bronchoscopy and cleaning (like in the days of Tb)?

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Somar 4 points ago +4 / -0

Although I am not a proponent of big pharma, In this case, the Infusion centers may be the issue. They are much more expensive than some of the alternatives.

What may cost $30,000 to be administered monthly at an infusion center or hospital might only cost around $6,000 per month if administered at home by a registered nurse. Of course not drugs can be administered at home, but many can. Insurance companies know this and often try to steer participants in that direction, but many people don’t understand or refuse to hear their options.

Most people only care about their portion of costs, and don’t care about the amount of money their insurance company pays out for services. What they don’t realize is that the more the insurance company pays, the more they will pay in premium, esp. If it’s a self-funded plan, then those costs are directly related to premium.

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CynicalTwit22 4 points ago +6 / -2

Insurance is the problem.

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Afks 4 points ago +7 / -3

Insurance premiums are reflective of the costs incurred

I’d say the cost for service and drugs is the problem, when you can have the same treatments and/or medications administered in any other country for significantly less

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CynicalTwit22 12 points ago +12 / -0

Insurance doesn't pay the amount you or I would if we paid cash. Read the summaries your health insurer sends you. We're paying ridiculous premiums for insurance that pays the bare minimum for our treatments. It's a scam.

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DrCowboyPresident 7 points ago +8 / -1

When insurance was required to accept anybody regardless of pre existing conditions, the fate was written on the wall.

Allowing people to buy fire insurance as their house was burning down would do the same thing to fire insurance premiums. We're being forced to pay for everyone else.

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IntrepidBurger 6 points ago +6 / -0

The costs are lower in other countries precisely because Americans subsidize the cost of those drugs and treatments. They recoup the entire cost of a drug from Americans and sell it for pennies on the dollar to the rest of the world as pure profits.

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MSG1000 3 points ago +3 / -0

Insurance companies lobby for legislation that makes costs artificially high. Furthermore, medications cost less over seas because those countries demand to only pay at production cost or less. So the burden of paying for profit and R&D falls on Americans.

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MurmaidMan 2 points ago +2 / -0

But it's the same thing with the student loan bubble, insurers willing to pay absurd prices, and receiving government subsidies, drive the prices up. I can tell you that if you don't have insurance, hospitals will first try to charge you the rate they charge insurance. When pressed they will reveal the actual charge is about 1/6 that. It's a money laundering scheme thay doubles as a means of raising costs. Government subsidies pour into payment programs (insurance or student loans) service industries raise costs because liquid assets are forthcoming, costs are raised on people such that they are unbearable unless they enter into the government subsidies, then those same people who were fucked by subsidies demand better and higher subsidies. Welcome to the destruction of the west haha.

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BadManOrange 4 points ago +4 / -0

Another thing worth noting is that many people have term life insurance through their employer, once they stop working those benefits either cease or get drastically cut. As such, they force the sick to stop working then when they die the life insurance company doesn't have to pay out.

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NC_patriot 4 points ago +4 / -0

I have an autoimmune disease and I was having to get Remicade infusions every six weeks at $21,000 a pop.

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cook_does 3 points ago +3 / -0

If she only knew how difficult it was obtain an aborted white baby to create the treatments her father has to take, the redpills would hill her father.

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sixfingerdildo 2 points ago +2 / -0

The difficulty is in that each abortion is single use. 2 aborted babies per month and they don't grow on trees.

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HiroProtagonist 2 points ago +2 / -0

All of that is correct except for the last sentence. That's the way ignorant liberals think.

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IvIA6A 2 points ago +2 / -0

Insurance just pays it then reaches back into the taxpayers pocket for the rest.

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MurmaidMan 2 points ago +2 / -0

I have been seeing alot of memes that we have "run out of conspiracy theories" as they are all proven true. Here is a new one for some of you, left vs right is a distraction, China vs us is a distraction, the real conflict is between the slave holding class and everyone else, via non-cure pharmisuticals and designer disease. Imagine you are a power hungry autocrat, there is really only so many freedoms you can take away before people catch on. Now think of the disease industry. Their goal isn't to make cures, it's to make enrollment programs. Why raise taxes when you can infect people with disease, then impose a "tax" on them for the privlidge of living. At some point you are more of a slave to big pharma than you are a citizen of your country. There is no insentive for cheap cures, there is insentive to make expensive drugs that do the minimum to sustain life indefinitely. Why would California decriminalize the knowing transmission of aids? Sometimes their sowing of chaos has a purpose. Welcome to the Era of pharmisutical slavery.

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TheFountainhead 2 points ago +2 / -0

Big pharma is a racket for sure, but we have to take them down via free market small government methods and not demand lower costs using the government as a threat. That leads to communism.

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TrappedInBlueState 2 points ago +2 / -0

BuT mUh ReSeArCh AnD dEvElOpEmEnT

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n4freedom 2 points ago +2 / -0

End the cdc and fda and watch how fast prices drop and big pharma collapse.

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BenDover2 2 points ago +2 / -0

Simply they charge as though your life depends on it ,a bit like taxes ,pay up or we'll make your life shit .😐

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k_the_c 2 points ago +2 / -0

Whenever you see a problem such as this, you can bet that the hand of government regulation is involved. This sounds like a supply distortion. The more advanced a technology becomes, the cheaper a product is. this is true for all industries where government involvement is minimal. Get the government out of medicine.

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zeeshopper 1 point ago +1 / -0

This isn't shocking at all. What's very shocking is that it's allowed to be happening each and every day.

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IlhanOmarsFagBrother 1 point ago +1 / -0

Medical debt doesn't go to your family when you die. Just rack that shit up and don't pay.

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Trumpy_Bear 1 point ago +1 / -0

I'm reading a lot of discussion on this thread. Let me throw in that exorbitant quality standards and controls for medical grade things also balloon costs.

There's also the brazen monopolization of medical services. Between NIMBY zoning, "certificates of need", the AMA restricting new doctors and immigrant doctors, there's plenty of competition throttling.

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Kholland65 1 point ago +1 / -0

And liberals think the solution is to just make tax payers pick up the bill.

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Brulz_Lulz 1 point ago +1 / -0

Dad needs some cash only work.

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WarViper1337 1 point ago +1 / -0

I have worked in the medical field for years and a diagnosis of "lung failure" is a new one to me. There is probably a shit load more to his condition that we don't know about especially if he is getting some kind of infusion.

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jmscwss 0 points ago +3 / -3

The Greek word in the New Testament that is translated as "sorcerer" is φάρμακος, pronounced "FAR-mah-kos." This is the Greek origin of the English word, "pharmacist."

The "phar-" root is shared with "Pharisee," which means separatist. To "phar-" is to separate, divide.

The "-mak" root is shared with the Greek word θεομάχος, pronounced "theh-om'-akh-os", which means "fighting against God." The "-mak" root means fight, or do battle.

Literally, the φάρμακος is the "divide-fighter." The sorcery specialty is conquest by division. This has many applications, aside from the political.

God's word never instructs us to seek healing from medicines. God tells us clearly that He heals all disease. The Sorcerer has deceived the world into believing that healing comes through chemicals and other material things. This is a lie! And, Satan is the father of lies.

God renders to every man according to his ways. If you believe it, you are subject to it. The truth will set you free.

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Kyro5411 4 points ago +5 / -1

Or, maybe Greeks from thousands of years ago thought science was magic and modern medicine is a gift from God.

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jmscwss -2 points ago +1 / -3

John and Paul were not Greeks.

Is that the impression you get from reading the Bible? Have you read the Bible?

  • Psalm 103:2-3 ESV

Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits, [3] who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases,

  • Exodus 15:26 KJVS

And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.

  • Deuteronomy 32:39-41 ESV

"'See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

  • Matthew 10:1 ESV

And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.

See, the power that Christ gives heals every disease. Truth sets free. It is the lies of sorcerers that teach men to be dependent of pharmaceuticals. But Christ-Life receives wholeness from the spiritual principal of wholeness: God, who is One.

Science is a gift from God, given to limit the power of sorcery. Modern science is a corrupt and bastardized form of true science, and in its present form, the Sorcerer is using it to once again enslave the world.

Wake up. God is Lord of all. He renders unto men according to their beliefs. If you believe the Sorcerer, then God will make you will depend on "Modern science," and thus will continue to be blown about by every wind of doctrine, like a child. You will need pills, special diets, and continual exercise to be healthy.

But the righteous live by faith. These words are true. Search them out! Repent! Wake up!!!!

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Kyro5411 2 points ago +3 / -1

You were the one talking about the Greek translations of words. I never mentioned John or Paul. Why don't you "wake up!!" and realize that "sorcery" is not real. The fact that you call modern medicine the equivalent of sorcery shows what an ignoramus you are.

Yes, I have read the Bible, and I believe that God gave man free will after banishing Adam and Eve from Eden for disobeying His laws.

That free will allowed man to create cures for diseases using the scientific method. To believe in the power of God does not mean that you have to dismiss medicine, technology, etc.

"WAKE UP!!" Do you even read the Bible??

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jmscwss 0 points ago +1 / -1

So, in your mind, "I am the Lord who heals you," means "heal yourself."

How about this one:

  • Jeremiah 17:5 ESV

Thus says the LORD: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.

When God says that trusting man is cursed, do you think He meant to carve out an exception for pharmacists? You can trust them, right?

You can honestly look at the world around you, and tell me that God wanted us to entrust our health and lives to pharmacists?

Well I never could. And I have experienced the power of God to heal. So if you want to continue judging everything by appearances (even though Jesus told us not to), and trusting man (even though God told us not to), and using medicines for healing (even though Paul and John told us not to), then I remind you of one thing:

God renders to men according to their ways. You believe lies about health and life, then you will have to live (and die) by them.

  • John 6:50 ESV

This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.

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Kyro5411 1 point ago +2 / -1

"Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD."

This is not referring to medicine. It is referring to the men who take their bodies to be more important than their eternal souls.

"This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die."

This referring to Jesus and those that accept him as their Lord and Savior to live eternally with Him in Heaven.

No, I do not trust the medical industry and will never get the jab.

God never meant to create the perfect world, which is why he gave humans free will after banishing Adam and Eve from Eden. Part of that free will is what allows greedy people to take advantage of an imperfect system of capitalism and so-called democracy.

If you believe that the Bible instructs us to not use medicines and only prayer to heal us, maybe you're a Christian Scientist and we disagree on this point. It does not mean that you are right and that everyone who goes to a doctor is wrong.

Get over yourself; Pride is the first of the 7 deadly sins for a reason. You are way too prideful to be a Christian as you are commanded to not force your faith unto others, but allow them to come to the Lord willingly. Anyone who is forced by people like you to falsely claim their faith will not be truly Saved.

Maybe it is time for you to take a break from telling others how they should live their lives and focus on your personal relationship with God.

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jmscwss 0 points ago +1 / -1

...he gave humans free will after banishing Adam and Eve from Eden.

The Bible doesn't say that. It says that sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience, and all who practice sin are enslaved by sin. The Bible says that Christ (who is Truth) will set us free, when we believe Him, and only Him.

You are way too prideful to be a Christian...

  • Romans 10:9 ESV

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Christians are not perfect. They trust Christ, that is all. Christ is our perfecter, and He will make us perfect in the fullness of time.

  • 1 John 1:8 ESV

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I do not deny that I am still subject to pride. I pray for God to take all my pride from me, yet I know that His grace is sufficient for me.

However, your diagnosis of pride is a false one, in this case. I was motivated, not by pride, but by a desire to "teach all nations to observe all that Christ commanded," according to the great commission.

you are commanded to not force your faith unto others,

In what way am I "forcing" anyone to be a Christian? Is exhortation coercion? I wonder why it feels that way to you?

  • Romans 12:6-8 ESV

Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; [7] if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; [8] the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

By the way, do you know the difference between "eternal life" and "Immortal life"? Eternity is unchanging. Eternity is always, ever, NOW. Spiritual life and power are available RIGHT NOW to anyone who believes God and only God.

Behold, I have told you. I'm not forcing you to claim it. But if you will trust God and only God, I promise you will never die. I promise, because Christ promised, and I have seen that He is faithful.

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Kyro5411 1 point ago +2 / -1

Behold, I have told you.

Such pride you have. Sinful.