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158
Yyourface8me1 158 points ago +160 / -2

He got christianity more than government wrong.

The gov became the church

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NotAPuma 107 points ago +110 / -3

He's just retarded Atheist "Historian" who thinks he understands why the Roman Empire fell.

It became Degenerate and God let it fall apart. You can't assimilate literal Barbarians into your culture and expect everything to go well. They'll just tear it apart in favour of their own culture. Furthermore, having Corrupt Leaders really speeds up this process.

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War_Hamster 37 points ago +38 / -1

Also, they destroyed their own currency.

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krzyzowiec 24 points ago +25 / -1

It’s ironic that he brings up Christianity, because it was Constantine that re-established the gold standard currency of the time (the solidus), which is what made Byzantium so successful for centuries while the Western empire withered away.

Christianity is what helped preserve the Roman legacy, at least until some corrupt bastards got in and debased the currency again.

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EUssr 18 points ago +20 / -2

If Christianity mattered more we wouldn't be in this mess, because the Synagogue of Satan would have long gotten the boot.

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ThunderSizzle 8 points ago +9 / -1

You really think the majority of Americans are practicing Christianity faithfully today?

I seriously don't see that being true. If it was, these issues would be significantly less.

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EUssr 6 points ago +6 / -0

That's.... pretty much exactly what I wrote.

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QuantumBogosity 3 points ago +3 / -0

I'm not trying to step on your toes, just adding some more information:

During its entire period of greatness the roman empire was on a silver standard. They mined lead ores containing quite a bit of silver as a by product, so it became the obvious choice... and they used the lead for everything from water pipes, dying graying hair black and sweetening wines, which might explain something about roman emperors...

Gold aureus coins existed and circulated for centuries before and during the great debasement.

During the debasement the government issued ever shittier bronze coins lightly dipped in silver but refused to take anything but pure gold and silver coins in taxes.

A gold coin was worth way too much for every day transactions. The smallest gold coin you could get under the solidus standard (one third solidus, tremissis) was still worth about 4 or 5 of the original silver denari. The ordinary plebs still used mostly thrash bronze coins lightly coated in silver under Constantine, but if you scratched together enough savings you could at least store it as gold coins, safe from debasement. Silver siliqua (very thin and lightweight silver coins) circulated in parallel with gold solidus. These were good silver coins, but were gradually reduced, resulting in some inflation still.

This is typical also in later european silver standards. Gold coins existed for international trade, but ordinary people largely used silver coins that were gradually debased into trash and replaced with new silver coins. The excuse for every "emergency coin" and every debasement was war. When faced with losing the war or debasing the currency and sending the gold and silver elsewhere to buy canons and hire mercenaries they chose the latter, always.

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krzyzowiec 1 point ago +1 / -0

No, I appreciate it. Aureus coins existed, but the gold content declined after Caesar.

A gold coin was worth way too much for every day transactions. The smallest gold coin you could get under the solidus standard (one third solidus, tremissis) was still worth about 4 or 5 of the original silver denari. The ordinary plebs still used mostly thrash bronze coins lightly coated in silver under Constantine, but if you scratched together enough savings you could at least store it as gold coins, safe from debasement. Silver siliqua (very thin and lightweight silver coins) circulated in parallel with gold solidus. These were good silver coins, but were gradually reduced, resulting in some inflation still.

This is typical also in later european silver standards. Gold coins existed for international trade, but ordinary people largely used silver coins that were gradually debased into trash and replaced with new silver coins. The excuse for every "emergency coin" and every debasement was war. When faced with losing the war or debasing the currency and sending the gold and silver elsewhere to buy canons and hire mercenaries they chose the latter, always.

It's interesting how silver only existed as a monetary tool to deal with the problem of gold being too valuable to use in daily transactions, same as the other metals, but all were inferior to gold, and once people realized you didn't need to trade the actual coins but could use paper "backed by gold" to trade in fractions of a coin, silver made no sense any longer. Of course then all the gold was centralized in banks and this enabled them to lie about their holdings... and also enabled the government to confiscate the wealth later.

The main drawback of gold has always been this lack of convenience. Imagine trying to buy coffee with gold coins lol.

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QuantumBogosity 1 point ago +1 / -0

The aureus shrank in size but remained 99% pure gold. It was always bigger than a solidus.

Paper "backed by gold" was never really a thing. As soon as promisory notes for gold started being issued by goldsmiths the fractional reserve banking scam started in earnest and the money supply rapidly inflated until only a tiny fraction of all paper promising it was backed in gold could actually be redeemed. During the Scottish free banking period, it was about 2% gold backing all those notes.

One of the earliest offical (not receipts for redemption at the goldsmiths but government issued) paper monies was in Sweden. Before large quantities of silver was found there was an attempt at using copper as commodity money; instead of one dollar/thaler/daler ~25g silver coin a ~1 kg copper plate was used. There was a 19.7 kg (~40 pounds) 10 daler coin. This was just ridiculously impractical and paper money was a must so you could leave the copper plates warehoused somewhere.

The idea behind a gold monetary standard was to force governments to be honest; and from the government's side it was to project an air of trust-worthiness. But this only really worked if the government was actually honest. By force and fraud it was always possible for governments to disarm the threat of gold money. If there was a war or something they could always issue more paper than there existed gold and later go "oops lol" and redeem them at a fraction of their face value in gold or force you to accept debased silver coins and similar schemes. It was also common to defer or close completely conversion of paper money to actual gold specie.

In the US in particular the inflation of the roaring twenties led to abolishing the gold standard in the thirties. There was still an international gold standard, but domestic gold was confiscated. With fewer who could redeem the dollars into gold they could keep inflating for a while until it caught up to them under Nixon. There is no magic remedy which cures incompetent and cleptocratic government and binds them to do the right thing.

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NotAPuma 6 points ago +6 / -0

Inflation + Corruption + Degeneracy + Shitty Military (The Roman Military by 400 AD was a Shadow of it's former self) = Fall of a Culture

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War_Hamster 1 point ago +2 / -1

Yes, that's why the answer to what we're dealing with is not just political. We have to relearn American values.

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MobileDev4Trump 14 points ago +14 / -0

They also devalued their currency heavily which is a big part of it. No one wanted Roman coinage.

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deleted 12 points ago +12 / -0
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deleted 11 points ago +12 / -1
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Kpak76 9 points ago +10 / -1

None of us alive truly know how Rome fell apart. None of us where alive. We only know from surviving texts. Shit, people living during that time probably don't understand why it fell apart.

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Nearlydearly2 12 points ago +12 / -0

It was the immigrants

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ijwgzm 11 points ago +11 / -0

It's always the immigrants.

Empires end up being run by foreigners. Then they collapse.

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NoComment 7 points ago +7 / -0

Only a tiny sliver of the events were written by a mere handful of people, making ‘history’ as we know it susceptible to inaccuracies and biases

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MoreTorbaLessKushner 9 points ago +21 / -12

Yep. The Vatican was always Satanic. It handed power to the "Black Nobility" we see destroying the world today.

The Rothschilds are a prime example.

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War_Hamster 3 points ago +6 / -3

I'm having a tough time finding good videos on the Black Nobility. I've got mountains of articles and research papers, but no videos up to standards yet.

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NoComment 3 points ago +11 / -8

Shhh just remember ‘pope = bad’ and ‘catholics = the devil’.

At least, if you go by the standard of the retarded people on this website.

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War_Hamster 9 points ago +9 / -0

The world is far too complex for broad statements like those. There's been plenty of good and bad Popes throughout history and there sure seems to have been some satanic influences over the years, but not enough to have corrupted more than pockets of oddball ideologies (and the current evil Pope).

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QLARP 2 points ago +4 / -2

I mean it covered up a scandal of thousands of child rapes.

Thats pretty bad.

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NotAPuma 0 points ago +1 / -1

Good point. But Teacher's GDP for Rape is over 1000% Higher than Catholic Priest. So... Priorities need to be shifted a bit.

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QLARP 0 points ago +1 / -1

Right but when the principal catches a teacher raping they call the cops, that's why the reporting is so high.

In the churches case the cardinal moved the priest from church to church to avoid scandal.

Allowing the priest to rape again and again.

That's why it's called the pedo church.

Also is yes our church rapes but not as much as high school teachers having sex with 17 year old boys, isn't really the hill you want to die on.

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NotAPuma 1 point ago +1 / -0

Actually, Teachers have been covering for each other in past years.

And the Catholic Church getting away with their Tom Fuckery, I'd place the blame on the Shitty Italian and American Governments who we're likely involved.

0
Injustice 0 points ago +2 / -2

The U.S. government seems to be catching up. So does that mean every American is the devil because some governmental officials are pedophiles?

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deleted 0 points ago +1 / -1
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NoComment 1 point ago +1 / -0

Justice Clarence Thomas worships the devil? 🤔

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NotAPuma 0 points ago +1 / -1

I'm gonna be honest I agree with that statement to a point.

Catholics have been sold a Lie. The Pope has been and always will be a Soldier of Evil assisting the Globalist and Satanic Agenda.

The Zealous Catholics, I love, smart people who Love God and wish to do everything they can to serve him.

The Not so Zealous Catholics are Complacent and are willing to follow a Corrupt Church.

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NoComment 0 points ago +1 / -1

St. Paul, the first Pope, was he a 'Soldier of Evil' as well?

Honestly sometimes the shit that people say on this website is unbelievable, I feel like I'm back at Reddit again.

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NotAPuma 0 points ago +1 / -1

"Unbelievable", why don't you quote the Bible?

Where does it say "Arch Bishops will elect amongst themselves a New Pope Everytime one dies", and then where does it say "This Pope will be God's Interpreter"

God doesn't need a Telephone Game that goes from Pope to Archbishop to Bishop to Priest, he needs His Priest/Preachers to be out converting people and saving their souls.

"Honestly sometimes the shit that people say on this website is unbelievable"

0
NoComment 0 points ago +1 / -1

"I reject your pope, I'll become my own pope" said every non-Catholic

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Scooby 3 points ago +3 / -0

I think you know what you have to do, Danielson.

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iSignedUpForThis 3 points ago +3 / -0

Daniel-san.

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War_Hamster 2 points ago +2 / -0

I don't get the reference?

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thelastlast 7 points ago +7 / -0

he wants you to make a video.

wax on, wax off.

2
War_Hamster 2 points ago +2 / -0

That might be on the menu, but I'm not quite as confident about the info I've gathered so far as I would need to be.

I'm sure I just haven't found the right sources yet, as I can trace several of the families through Europe starting around 1500. It's the 1300-1500 area that's a little murky, but I'm betting I can find more on that from writings about the Church.

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TheDespotofCartoons 3 points ago +3 / -0

I think they meant “Daniel-san,” a reference to The Karate Kid.

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Scooby 2 points ago +2 / -0
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War_Hamster 3 points ago +3 / -0

Had you spelled it Daniel-San I would have gotten it.

I've been digging that direction looking for the origins of these Merchant Princes who seem to run the world. What I think I know about the Black Nobility fits very well with what I know to be factual from 1600 onwards. Need to do a bit more homework.

The video in my head will trace those people all the way from the 1300's until today. It is definitely an argument against concentrated wealth and power.

1
VonJager 1 point ago +1 / -0

Obviously your not a golfer.

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Athena86 1 point ago +1 / -0

No, he’s a hamster, dummy.

0
NickFuentesFan2 0 points ago +1 / -1

That's a dumb conspiracy. The black nobility were just Italian families who supported the Pope during Italian unification. Many of them went on to support the SSPX, a very conservative movement in the Church. They have no power.

The Rotshschild bankers had influence everywhere in Europe, including the Vatican. But they couldn't affect doctrine, that only happened with the rise of leftism in the west following WW2.

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Gwoz8881 4 points ago +4 / -0

Lord Fauci and the church of the science™️

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anewpatriot 2 points ago +3 / -1

Wanted to say this too.

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deleted 1 point ago +3 / -2
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King5150 35 points ago +35 / -0

at the time of Rome's collapse they were waist deep in political nepotism, child sex, hedonism and gay sex and males becoming effeminate to their Alpha masters.

sound familiar?

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krzyzowiec 12 points ago +13 / -1

He neglects to mention that it was Christian Constantine that restored the greatness of Roman civilization in the eastern province for centuries while the degenerate West died.

He was the one who brought back gold as the standard currency for the empire. (the corruption of the money corrupts the rest of society)

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TAIWANNUMBERONE 30 points ago +31 / -1

Don't forget foreigners destabilizing the government from within while going on and on about a far away threat they themselves funded, while doing next to nothing to actually stop it.

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Kpak76 28 points ago +30 / -2

Why do morons keep blaming Christianity for their problems?

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the_sky_is_falling 9 points ago +12 / -3

Cos they're morons

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ijwgzm 2 points ago +4 / -2

With Daddy issues.

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deleted 14 points ago +15 / -1
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EtRpatriot 14 points ago +14 / -0

Time didn't collapse as much as it... deflated.

And many have suspected America would follow its pattern with historical evidence at least as far back as the 70s.

I am not sure its a bad comparison either.

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Gildoom 12 points ago +14 / -2

Christianity more than government? uhhhhhhhhhh no.

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boreal_storm 7 points ago +7 / -0

True empires don't collapse overnight. It took Rome centuries. If you count the Eastern Roman empire, add about 9 centuries.

-1
ijwgzm -1 points ago +1 / -2

Those empires didn't have jets or the Internet. Everything happens much faster today.

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deleted 7 points ago +8 / -1
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Prussian_Pepe 4 points ago +5 / -1

It's more than that, the family unit has been broken down for decades before the LGBT logo got weaponized by the commies. Rampant adultery (oh noes the heterosexuals are breaking the commandments too by fucking a couple hundred hoes before marriage and divorcing whenever they feel like it! And statistically in a much higher percentage than the less than 3% who are homo), the entire society bent around worshiping Mammon, and all that money can buy instead of God. Money won't save you, or this country. All the televangelist spitting lies and false doctrine. Letting the Synagogue of Satan control take control of basically all aspects of society, the media and the government. The list of sins is much longer than just some groups the globalist throw around to keep people busy while they destroy things no one is looking at.

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NickFuentesFan2 1 point ago +1 / -0

lol, trying to argue gays are less promiscuous than straight (normal) people. disgusting.

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thelastlast 6 points ago +6 / -0

Rome was burned down, to the ground, twice, and lived on. we're not there yet people.

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deleted 8 points ago +9 / -1
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deleted 2 points ago +2 / -0
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deleted 2 points ago +5 / -3
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Niqlndym 5 points ago +5 / -0

What was that Coliseum used for, again?

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QLARP 1 point ago +2 / -1

Gladiator fights and naval battles.

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JaneHanc0ck 4 points ago +5 / -1

Born just in time to save the west

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WindyCityBluez 4 points ago +4 / -0

They also ate mercury cause "science" n drove them crazy..

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InsideMan 4 points ago +4 / -0

I dislike the comparisons with Rome - We haven't even transitioned from Senate to Emperor yet.

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16BeatsAOne 3 points ago +4 / -1

. . . and don't forget the feminization of a great number of men during the fall of Rome.

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QLARP 1 point ago +2 / -1

They were fucking boys from day 1

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Bonami 3 points ago +3 / -0

Yep, it's de ja vu all over again.

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tonkabodhi 2 points ago +2 / -0

Prosperity and Pax Romana were the downfall of Rome.

And just like today: easy times make soft men.

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Injustice 2 points ago +2 / -0

fall of rome was caused by hyper inflation, they kept lowering the size and weight of the denarius saying it was worth the same as before. Which meant the average person moved into the country away from towns to be farmers so they had something to eat. Then came the hordes from the north and no one gave two shits about them raiding towns towards the south.

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QuantumBogosity 2 points ago +2 / -0

The fall of Rome was due to many things, but one of the major was inflation. Only the barbarians were to be bribed with gold coins. Romans were paid in silver coins that gradually became bronze coins lightly dipped in silver; over a century the content dropped from 90% silver to a fraction of 1% silver. Roman citizens were reduced to barter. The military reguarly mutinied due to lack of payment. International trade collapsed because nobody wanted shitty bronze coins.

What allowed Rome to expand in the first place was not just military might. Well over 90% of the time the military was doing civil engineering and building structures; roads, aqueducts, sewer systems. The areas conquered by Rome contained people who mostly hadn't been happy under their old king or emperor and wouldn't be very happy under their new one, but at least their children didn't die of cholera as often. They were made part of Rome and made to feel like romans.

The crisis of the third century really reversed that. It became so shitty for the average roman that they no longer wanted to be roman or part of Rome; even barbarian culture seemed superior.

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Thetigerpoppy 2 points ago +3 / -1

Wait, western Rome, eastern Rome or the Holy Roman empire? Technically all 3 claim the same heritage, spiritual capital, and were called Rome. Really the fall of the holy Rome empire should be considered the end of Rome.

And heck The Roman empire may not exist politically anymore but culturally its everywhere via Christianity and our calenders are only slightly modified versions of what Ceasar created... not to mention the year 2022 is in reference to a Roman citizen a.k.a Jesus. Oh and let's not forget French, Italian and Spanish all spawned from Latin and our current Alphabet is pretty much the 1 the Roman's used. We are also constantly starting shit or responding to Iran's BS and the ME in general, aside from our civil war the bloodiest wars we've fought were against the Germans...

The existence of Rome is very much still a part of our everyday lives and is literally responsible for what we write, what many speak and the current date. It never actually collapsed in the sense that most empires collapsed, sure Italy doesn't control our laws, and the global currency is the dollar but a Christian nation accepting of other religions using the Julian calendar, using the Latin Alphabet (more or less) that has a Republic for its political system... It seems fair to say that Rome didn't collapse but rather won.

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SqRt7744 2 points ago +2 / -0

He forgot to mention inflation.

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123breadman 1 point ago +1 / -0

A plague isn't resulting in a labor shortage in the US. It's bad HR practice.

In today's US, government matters more than Christianity. (The opposite). We don't have civil wars where people are dying (unless old with comorbitities)

Do we have any bad military leadership? (I'm in the dark about this)

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dorsalmorsel 1 point ago +1 / -0

Waves of illegal aliens that were allowed to stay or even paid off to not cause trouble. Half of the population idling with everything paid for them by the government while the other half were slaves.

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zzyzyx 1 point ago +1 / -0

Yeah you young farts have shit timing.

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WhiteTrashJesus 1 point ago +2 / -1

Things can get fucked up pretty fast in the modern day, due to technology. But the positive side is things can also improve very quickly when the ball is in our court

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Priopism 1 point ago +1 / -0

Christianity mattered more than the government? You dumb fuck.

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FractalSpaceTime 1 point ago +1 / -0

At that time, Christianity played the same role as Socialism is playing nowadays. It was a social-justice movement whose goal was to destabilize the Roman Empire and to replace it with Communis.. I mean, Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Sorry to the mostly pro-Christian crowd but I had to say this.

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NickFuentesFan2 1 point ago +1 / -0

Source: neo-nazi pagan wignats

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Brulz_Lulz 1 point ago +1 / -0

It took centuries for Rome to collapse btw. We may be in the middle of an period of decline, but it probably won't come.crashing down in our lifetime

0
Rockhad10 0 points ago +1 / -1

Doomer pussfornutts type

0
OwnaLib87 0 points ago +1 / -1

Carroll Quigley said all empires go through an age of expansion followed by an age of conflict. We are well into another age of conflict.

Frankly I like the Bible’s take better.

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deleted 0 points ago +1 / -1
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hillaryprison -2 points ago +1 / -3

You can't blame Christianity (following Jesus) for a corrupt empire that had a perversion of religion (catholicism) and meddled that with government. People keep conflating things without knowing what they're talking about it. Most Christians don't even believe Catholics are Christian, because Christians only follow Jesus and don't bow down and worship men like popes, or statues, have weird chants, or pray to mary, etc. These are all false teachings to those who actually read and follow the Bible.

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NickFuentesFan2 2 points ago +2 / -0

Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity, and most would agree it's the oldest one. "Most Christians don't believe Catholics are Christian" well we're the largest denomination so that's objectively wrong, and no Protestant on earth (with a brain) believes we're a different religion.

We don't don't worship the pope or do any of that. Weird chants? They're literally the Psalms, lmao.

We also compiled the Bible, because without authority there is no way to know which books are canon or not.

You sound like you have a lot of hatred in your heart, which prevents you from learning the truth from objective sources, instead of just Jack Chick fundie garbage.

0
TrappedRed_in_blue 0 points ago +1 / -1

Look at you doing just that. By the way, the Nicene Creed uses "catholic, and apostolic church" for a reason. Catholic means universal, meaning all Christians.

Protestants have no connection to Biblical history because they have separated themselves from it. My church started with Jesus, yours at best was with Luthor at worst only a couple decades ago!

Catholics don't worship Mary, but they give her the respect she is due as the Mother of God. Orthodox do the same and it can be argued that the Orthodox are just as original as the Catholics. Many Orthodox can trace their church's foundation to St Paul, no Protestant can say the same.

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hillaryprison 1 point ago +1 / -0

Everything you wrote is incorrect. If you don't believe some Catholics worship mary, the pope, and other false gods all you have to do is search Google Images or YouTube for those keywords and you find it within seconds. It shows people kissing the feet of the pope, bowing down to him, kneeling, also hands stretched out to statues of mary, kissing statues of mary, kissing graven images, bowing down to graven images. It's true that many do this, and there's already proof of it, but the only question is do you want to see it with your own eyes. This is inconvenient to your beliefs.

You said other false things. Catholics aren't Christian, because they don't follow the teachings of Jesus, and do their own thing instead. This is not opinion, but straight from the Bible if someone is interested in reading that.

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TrappedRed_in_blue 1 point ago +1 / -0

Catholics are Christians much like us Orthodox are Christian. I can come to agreement with the notion that Western Catholics put too much stock into a single bishop in Rome when originally it was many bishops, each the head of their church area. They would come together in councils to settle arguments on doctrine or even putting together thr books included in the Bible. Catholics chant the hymns in Latin, in my church we chant in Syriac, the language of Jesus himself. Would you call that 'weird language' too? Just because you do not speak it, doesn't make it bad.

We show respect, not worship to statues, how do you show respect to the Mother of God? To the Saints? To the Apostles? To the Priests and Deacons? I'm sure you don't say ugly things about them, I'm sure that you are kind when talking about them because they are deserving of recognition for who and what they are. Without that, how does a community function? Even the Apostles had deacons under them, there is a need for hierarchical structure to maintain large groups. Were those selected leaders not respected too? Back in the day, they would show respect by embracing, by kissing the forehead, etc. How is that horrible to do now? Would you accuse them of idolizing each other?

My church was founded by St Paul in Antioch. There is a direct line of connection between the current bishop and him. Orthodox respect the saints and Virgin Mary, we do not worship idols. There are icons made but they are treated much like photographs are considered art.

I think there are far more things in common between the denominations than there are differences. Especially with the current Pope leading the Western Catholics to another schism by way of heresy. I'm pretty sure many can agree that this Pope is doing evil and not worthy of the respect that the title evokes, perhaps this will help bring the disparate Christian groups closer together.