The only way you can get a chinese-manufactured appliance that will last as long as a vintage American-made one is to pay a price so steep that the machine might as well have been made in the US anyway. Americans are now conditioned to "save money" by buying disposable trash.
The only way you can get a chinese-manufactured appliance that will last as long as a vintage American-made one is to pay a price so steep that the machine might as well have been made in the US anyway.
This right here, Americans are so damn focused on price point they buy junk, and the Chinese feed off it by making junk because that is what the American consumer literally wants and pays for... And many American manufacturers try to compete and end up making more expensive junk that is no better... I have personally had stuff manufactured for me in China after I was unable to find an American or Canadian company that would work with me at a price point I needed to make the product viable... I chose one of the higher bidders on my product from China, it was significantly more than most of the other bids from China, but in the end I got a product that I would argue all day long was one the same page as if it was made in America... China can make decent stuff, but that is not what the US consumer wants or desires, so China makes cheap shit...
Sadly I will take Chinese manufacturers over Indian any day of the week. America is the king of quality manufacturing, Germany was a steel and machining powerhouse, Italian and Spanish companies make amazing tools. India makes things that try and burn your house down, I had a surge protector burn up first use and an outdoor fire ring burner that nearly got me when a proportioning valve decided to leak.
Because when you live in a middle eastern country you don't have a USPS address and online ordering isn't like what we have in America and going to a store you get what you get.
I try to have this argument with people all the time, and they just dont get it. Cheap isnt always actually cheap. I went through a few pairs of shoes when i started my current job, 2 in specifically 3.5 months. Bought one $80 pair of shoes from kohls that were coming apart in 2 months. Then bought a $60 pair of shoes from a meijer, for $30 on clearance. Worn completely out in 6 weeks. When i say worn out, i mean like holes in the soles or you could see a toe somewhere sticking out. I did some research and decided on redwings. Bought a $150 pair of american made redwing loafers for work, beat the hell out of them, walking a ton at work and after work, did stupid stuff like kick a punching bag with them on repeatedly, hike in them in the rain despite them not being a hiking shoe, and around 11 months they started to blow out by the big toe on both sides. Walked in the redwing store and walked back out 5 minutes later in a brand new pair of shoes because they were under warranty still. Wore them for another 1.5 years until i lost one on a vacation. Then bought a pair of slightly different safety toe redwing shoes, same price, first generation to not be made in america, wore them for over 3 years with only a replacement insole. 5.5 years for $300. Im no rocket surgeon but i think i know whether the cheap shit shoes were a lower overall cost of ownership.
Then they try to argue from the business perspective that its just too cost effective to move production to china. Except that when you factor in the declining value of their brand name from slapping it on cheap made in china garbage, and the loss of intellectual property, they are actually losing money in the long run rather than making it. The high profit margin in the short term isnt sustainable. Its a crap business model, and it only took a few decades for american businesses with over a century of reputation built up to squander it. I will never forget the disappointment in the most poorly designed and dangerous clay pigeon thrower that was made in china, with the winchester name on it. There are american brands these days that have less market relevance than the chinese brands that you see selling on amazon these days. They dont need to fake being a us brand anymore, they can just sell you a funsun heat pad or wong foo toothbrush and know youll buy it.
"It was inevitable anyway, but at least they continued to remain profitable for a while longer before shutting down." Yeah Im gonna have to call BS on that. I dont think thats what the research indicates. There are plenty of studies showing consumer interest in made in america goods cs chinese and how much it costs to manufacture in china actually.
About 34 years ago I had the same experience with work boots.
I had started a part time construction job while in college and bought a pair of cheap boots. My feet were completely destroyed at the end of a shift.
I bought another pair of cheaper boots with the same result. A number of coworkers suggested I buy a pair of Red Wings so I went down and spent the $180 on a pair of very nice work boots.
I had those boots for years and my feet never hurt again.
Good boots / shoes are always worth it in the end.
Those computer boards are almost always the weak link on new appliances and there is for all intents no way the components are not coming from China, Hong Kong or South Korea, the cost to source and replace a defective board is almost always cost prohibitive, and to buy a used one is rolling the dice as they generally all start failing at the same amount of use...
I hear stories like this all the time, especially in the CNC world. American shops won't hardly touch a job unless it's 25k+, meanwhile the Chinese guys will have it done before you're finished negotiating with the domestic folks.
Sad state of affairs when people who want to have work done in the US, can't because some shop owner has decided they'd rather keep the reserve capacity in case some hot job comes through so they can gouge someone.
Yep, I spent 3 months contacting every US/Canada manufacturer I could find, and only about half even bothered to return my inquiries for a low volume initial 1000pcs run, and probably 75% of the ones that did contact me said they could have their 'overseas partner' do it for me, negating the entire purpose of trying to find an American or Canadian company to do the work... Some were downright silly, wanting $10K or more in 'tooling' cost alone over and above their per pcs quote that was through the roof...
When I picked the Chinese company, they quoted me under $10 a unit and around $100 for tooling, and they shipped them DHL overnight for free about 10 days after I wired them the money...
To put this in perspective, my maket goal price was $100, with the ability to sell at $75 if I wanted to do a sale... Not a single US or Canadian company quoted me under $100 a unit, while the Chinese were willing to make them for $10 and ship to them to me for free...
It really left a bad feeling in my gut, I wanted so much to have an entirely made in the US product, but after that experience, I gave up...
The one thing I will note about having shit made in China, your design is not going to be kept proprietary if they decide they can sell it to someone else they will try... I personally know of at least two people that were bringing a product to market to compete with one already on the market, and low and behold as luck would have it they had contacted the same Chinese manufacturer that was making the existing product they were competing against, in both cases the Chinese company said they could simply buy the product they were already making for the competitor 'under the table' at a deep discount vs them making their own similar design 🤣
"You can buy a brand new car that breaks in 4-6 years, it'll cost you almost a bare minimum of 30,000$"
bUt YoU gEt A wArRaNtEe tO fIx ThAt?!
"Or you can buy a decent used car from the 90's for around 5,000$, put another 5,000$ into basic maintenance; keep it clean and take care of it - that will outlast any car made today."
bUt wArRaNtEe?
Look man, seriously; I used to go out with my cousins and uncles to dig old trucks out of the mud; and when I say old, I mean, 1940's and 1950's trucks that'd been sitting in the woods, or mud bogs for 30 years...
You throw some gas in them, check the sparks, and you'll get them driving out on their own; you leave a brand new car parked for a week and it'll "die"
Airbags were the line in the sand for me. I have 3 vehicles, all from their very last model year before airbags. All maintained in excellent mechanical condition, no significant rust either visible or underneath. I have no plans to ever buy anything newer.
He is. Remember where you are, the land without cause and effect where literally everything is a conspiracy for some.
That’s why I don’t think the FBI bothers to plant anything here to discredit it. They check in, see some shit like “corporations only advertise on Twitter to support pedophilia” and “airbags kill you” and they close the browser and chuckle.
Dangerous and expensive. Only time I've been in a real accident, it was a damn good thing I didn't have airbags, or I wouldn't have been able to regain control. I would have gotten T-boned at highway speed, and God knows how many other vehicles would have crashed in the ensuing pile-up.
Also airbags are the reason people are now forced to put babies and toddlers in the back seat. Look up the stats on the massive increase in babies and toddlers dying after being forgotten in hot cars in the back seat since airbags were introduced -- over 10 times as many deaths! Nobody ever forgot their baby was in the car when babies rode right next to their driving parent in the front seat.
I've seen some videos on yt where people do exactly that. If the vehicle was manufactured before the 80s, it seems they always manage to get them up and running again. Regardless of fuel efficiency, I think we're going to see a future where people will be begging for anything reliable and repairable because the alternatives will be overpriced disposable trash or a horse and buggy.
I think very few of those cars fell apart beyond repair. More like "it's easier to buy a new car than replace a head gasket" syndrome. And into the scrap yard they go.
Id love to see examples for new cars that have problems worse than this. I think people saying the older cars are more reliable are insane. Manufacturing is way better and also metals and materials are way more durable.
You can literally see the difference, vehicles are bigger and all the parts are thicker and sturdier. Open up the hood of an 80s supra and you’ll see paper thin hinges etc that are rusted out. Also the head gaskets were torqued wrong from factory, and Toyota is the king of reliability! 90s is shit too, my family was a victim if the dodge plymoth minivan like so many others.
You are both right. Modern cars are more reliable, BUT you can’t do most potentially needed repairs yourself. An older “less reliable” vehicle might break down more often, but it could be repaired indefinitely without needing proprietary tools, knowledge, and parts.
Engines and ECUs are definitely better. I'll take overhead cams and variable valve timing any day. No argument here. My complaint is mainly with thin, light shitty steel that rusts out
In this thread: A lot of pedes who never had a Chrysler K car 😅
70s and early 80s cars were solid, for the most part. I lived my Toyota Celica and my pickup. They're still probably out on some road. The trucks were great. Then they started loading them up with power options and half baked anti smog plumbing.
I have a 1991 F350 dually with 72k miles on it. If you depress the accelerator just a bit too far, it launches itself with tires spinning. It scares the heck out of my wife. The only thing I don't like about it is 9 mpg. Runs amazingly well, though & passes every smog test with amazing #s. Oh... one more negative - it's 21ft long & with big tires & won't fit in the garage. I've tried car covers, but the wind causes rubbing & it wears the paint off, plus car covers seem to be a hot item for thieves.
Whipper snapper. They never improved on the Model A. You could literally use bacon rind for rod bearing and go across the country on that. Air conditioning and 8 track tapes were commie plots to make America soft.
The real reason is safety ratings. If you want to pass a crash test, the vehicle has to be easy to destroy.
Old cars were buot like bricks and after a crash would look brand new. The problem is in a crash, if the vehicle doesn't get crumbled and destroyed then a lot more force is transfered to the occupants and they die.
All the different regulations make a pref ct storm so that's it's hard to make a simple machine that's still legal to sell.
A good example is washing machines. The EPA fucked them and now all the new ones are less effective and break easier. That center post that spins the clothes? Can't use those now because they don't meet guidelines. Even if a company wants to build a good washing machine it's illegal.
A lot of that same crazy regulations effect random parts on cars.
Can confirm. I've got an '80s era American made Maytag washer and dryer set, electric/gas models, you plug them into a regular outlet. Still washing clothes without a hitch every single week. FWIW, supposedly Maytag still makes some appliances in the USA.
I have my parents 1974 Maytags in the mud room. They wash the nasty farm clothes as my wife won't have that shit in her Boschs (or whatever shes got in there)
I take my shit covered (literally) gas and diesel infused wranglers, some Tide and pop them in those maytags and shit in about 30 minute they are clean. Dryer works great too. Cool thing is you can easily remove the tubs for cleaning them if required.
I'm not playing. Still works. It's a built in, stainless steel with chrome everything. It's quite nice. Very small. I'm taking it out and selling it and selling it this summer in favor of a wine chiller.
I believe you. My grandma used to have one of those beautiful light turquoise blue/green fridges with the lever handle, I'm thinking it was a Philco from the '40s. She was still using it in the late 1980s.
The landfills will be miles deep with the things while the used vehicle market is going to end up looking like Cuba, with 50 year old gas models being sold back and forth.
Personally I'm a KitchenAid guy. I love their dark and chrome packages. If you got money to blow go Jenn-Air! The people to ask would be actual appliance professionals. In our area that would be Furgesons or Aztec Appliance.
Home Depot sucks. Their return policy sucks worse. If you go with a big box store and not a local appliance pro go to Costco. You'll at least get a 2 year factory warranty.
ALWAYS BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY. (AIG or something) It's about $225 for 5 years per appliance on average. It's worth it in the parts alone. Service call fee is $140, parts ~$300 labor ~$200+
That's a loaded question. Whirlpool offers their tech sheets and service manuals through a website called servicesmatters.com but you need to pay for the subscription (~$400/year) What's great about servicematters is you can take the courses and become whirlpool certified. They have a tech line you can call and the master tech will walk you through it.
Whirlpool is top to bottom Jenn-Air, KitchenAid, Maytag/Whirlpool, Amana etc The etc are just new brands they are acquiring.
G.E. Open the top of the console, you'll find the tech sheet or at least the wiring diagram folded up. Can't find many resources online.
Samsung? Good luck finding anything!
Kenmore: Wiring diagrams and tech sheets like G.E. products but sometimes they provide support. They have an 800 number you can call. Kenmore is actually just now adays mostly re-branded GE and whirlpool products.
If you want to learn how to repair. Repairclinic.com has great video resources. Type in the part number and it'll give you a big, beautiful image of the part (generally) and a video on how to install it. Or just go to servicematters.
Lots of physics concepts involved. Not everything is a repair in the sense that you need parts. It could just be a simple adjustment of the feet to stop a noise or even air migration into a refrigerator.
I have been very lucky with repairclinic.com and YouTube.
We have fixed a dryer that didn’t heat, a fridge that leaked water from the top freezer, and a dishwasher that didn’t get the dishes clean (chopper blades).
Dryer was probably either coils or igniter for no heat. Fridge the drain iced over because heater circuit was malfunctioning some how. Either thermistor malfunctioned or thermal probe wasn't in drain I'm assuming. If it were a no-cool in the fridge then it may have also been evap motor
Ah, the only ones I've seen are conservative values. Lol, good, fuck them. I'm sure they stole it from those as usual. Take something and diminish it or run damage control "thos people are crazy" stuff. Taking it away from us is business as usual to them shitstains. How long you been fixing stuff?
I've been a technician since the 90s in various fields. Mainly IT and microelectronics. I got a CCNP about 10 years ago. I tried starting a business that encompassed all of this and it just turned into appliance repair.
It's called 'planned obsolescence'. Much harder to bilk customers of their money when you make quality products that last, because you might not see them again for years to come. Who gives a damn if they're loyal or not? Once you remove all other buying options they don't have a choice but to use your crap, or some equally shitty alternative, at which point you've got them by the balls. They'll be stuck with your shoddy bullshit whether they like it or not.
Rustoleum appliance paint is awesome. I used it on a 1970s fridge in a house I was about to sell (inherited the fridge when I bought the house). Ended up staying in the house for a couple years after painting it. It still seriously looked like new. Don't let your mom get rid of that fridge thinking you'd never want it because of the color.
And I can personally attest to the durability and ease of application of Rustoleum appliance paint. Just because it was born avocado green doesn't mean it has to stay avocado green. And if you want fancier colors than Rustoleum's white or almond choices, I'm pretty sure any automotive paint would work great too.
Wtf is up with glass top stoves. I am clean person but can't say that about everyone here. Top is scratched, fogged and burned off. Stupid thing is less than 2 years old. Will have to pay $350 for new top. Screw that! Cheap POS stove and can't find one with coils that will fit.
Built outdoor kitchen with gas stove because wasn't feasible to run gas inside.
My aunt has a glass-top stove. They were definitely made for show, not heavy use. They look great in photos, but you'd better only use it once a week or less.
Ooh, I have one of 'em glass top stoves. It looks like fucking shit after less than a year of use. Fuck, when it was delivered it wasn't even in perfect condition. The top was scratched. What a load of shit.
My grandparents fridge, stove, and furnace were installed when they build the house in 1960. They all still work perfectly fine. Meanwhile my 2010 house is already on its second fridge and the HVAC needs contant parts.
Ah, my old furnace, and water heater were kick-ass. The newer efficient ones need repair every now, and again. Absolute horseshit. Made in China garbage.
Most appliances are lasting only three to five years now. We replaced my mother's refrigerator with a new one a few years back. Other family members thought it quit and bought her a new one, turned out to be a bad breaker. I put the old one online.
It sold quickly, for a lot. GE themselves bought it for their museum. It was all original, in good shape and from the 1950's.
New refrigerator lasted three years and the compressor quit, and was too expensive to repair vs cost of a new one.
When I moved to where I am now, I went on Craigslist and found a local man who refurbs older appliances. Bought a washer and dryer that are indeed mature, but in very good appearance and functional conditional shape. Not a problem and its been two years.
Thats a fact..I gave up my search for a new one now...had my old one repaired..even the repair man said they just dont make them like they used to..he called my "old school" but a great fridg..lol That convinced me to keep it probably will get many more years out of it. Besides I'm not really crazy about the french door style..lol
I used to work in the parts side of Major appliance manufacturing, When these products were built at home the products was far superior, there were decent jobs that people could feel proud of as people were generally getting their moneys worth.
I have heard endless stories about how long peoples appliances lasted for and how thankful a Family would be to not have to keep paying up to keep a washer and dryer functional.
Planned obsolescence has taken a huge toll on us all.
You should look into the history behind how the refrigeration process works. To my understanding there used to be a type of refrigeration chemical / process that was incredibly long lasting and energy efficient and some companies involved in that sector basically lobbied to get it made illegal because they 1) didn't want to compete and 2) needed people to continue buying new refrigerators. It's the reason why you'll see fridge's from the 70's / 80's still going strong but new fridges break down within 3-4 years, because the old one's use the process from before it got lobbied into oblivion.
One of the biggest downsides of losing my house in a wildfire in 2018 is that we also lost a refrigerator that had been in my family since 1987, and was our garage fridge at the time.
It still worked great. Probably because it still had real Freon in it instead of that crap refrigerant they use these days.
We have a 4 burner gas frigidaire stove/oven that was at least 20 years old when we bought this house n now we have been here 15 years and it’s still going strong!
I like to shop at estate sales. Found a made in America hand held can opener (wanted a couple for when everything goes to shit 🙃) and it was $1. It’s really heavy, unlike the other one I have from China.
I work at Gea in Louisville Ky, unfortunately we were bought by the Chinese in 2016. Our products are made in America with parts from all over Asia and America. Our products are over engineered junk with 1600 parts in a refrigerator.
I owned this exact same fridge for decades. The funny part is we didn't replace it because it broke or anything like that, we just wanted a fridge that looked better.
2022 fridge be like "you are out of condoms order more, also here on this facebook post you had a post that sounded close to racism passing by on a freeway in a truck please delete you have two demerit points"
Just bought a new computer chair…got a name brand hoping it was made in the USA. Nope. “Made In China” printed on the box. It does have a much higher quality than the usual garbage from there, but the same weak link as all have is obvious: thin, shitty welding.
I’m worried about the design and steel quality too…it’s thick enough but if it’s soft, it’s going to bend with the way it’s designed. Everything felt like good quality besides that weld though. It was a Serta chair and it feels sturdy and comfy too.
The only way you can get a chinese-manufactured appliance that will last as long as a vintage American-made one is to pay a price so steep that the machine might as well have been made in the US anyway. Americans are now conditioned to "save money" by buying disposable trash.
This right here, Americans are so damn focused on price point they buy junk, and the Chinese feed off it by making junk because that is what the American consumer literally wants and pays for... And many American manufacturers try to compete and end up making more expensive junk that is no better... I have personally had stuff manufactured for me in China after I was unable to find an American or Canadian company that would work with me at a price point I needed to make the product viable... I chose one of the higher bidders on my product from China, it was significantly more than most of the other bids from China, but in the end I got a product that I would argue all day long was one the same page as if it was made in America... China can make decent stuff, but that is not what the US consumer wants or desires, so China makes cheap shit...
One "Tell" is if the product has "For Export Only" on it anywhere.
Sadly I will take Chinese manufacturers over Indian any day of the week. America is the king of quality manufacturing, Germany was a steel and machining powerhouse, Italian and Spanish companies make amazing tools. India makes things that try and burn your house down, I had a surge protector burn up first use and an outdoor fire ring burner that nearly got me when a proportioning valve decided to leak.
I had a USB power supply also burn up. Wtf
Why are you not supporting Tripp Lite?
Because when you live in a middle eastern country you don't have a USPS address and online ordering isn't like what we have in America and going to a store you get what you get.
I try to have this argument with people all the time, and they just dont get it. Cheap isnt always actually cheap. I went through a few pairs of shoes when i started my current job, 2 in specifically 3.5 months. Bought one $80 pair of shoes from kohls that were coming apart in 2 months. Then bought a $60 pair of shoes from a meijer, for $30 on clearance. Worn completely out in 6 weeks. When i say worn out, i mean like holes in the soles or you could see a toe somewhere sticking out. I did some research and decided on redwings. Bought a $150 pair of american made redwing loafers for work, beat the hell out of them, walking a ton at work and after work, did stupid stuff like kick a punching bag with them on repeatedly, hike in them in the rain despite them not being a hiking shoe, and around 11 months they started to blow out by the big toe on both sides. Walked in the redwing store and walked back out 5 minutes later in a brand new pair of shoes because they were under warranty still. Wore them for another 1.5 years until i lost one on a vacation. Then bought a pair of slightly different safety toe redwing shoes, same price, first generation to not be made in america, wore them for over 3 years with only a replacement insole. 5.5 years for $300. Im no rocket surgeon but i think i know whether the cheap shit shoes were a lower overall cost of ownership.
Then they try to argue from the business perspective that its just too cost effective to move production to china. Except that when you factor in the declining value of their brand name from slapping it on cheap made in china garbage, and the loss of intellectual property, they are actually losing money in the long run rather than making it. The high profit margin in the short term isnt sustainable. Its a crap business model, and it only took a few decades for american businesses with over a century of reputation built up to squander it. I will never forget the disappointment in the most poorly designed and dangerous clay pigeon thrower that was made in china, with the winchester name on it. There are american brands these days that have less market relevance than the chinese brands that you see selling on amazon these days. They dont need to fake being a us brand anymore, they can just sell you a funsun heat pad or wong foo toothbrush and know youll buy it.
"It was inevitable anyway, but at least they continued to remain profitable for a while longer before shutting down." Yeah Im gonna have to call BS on that. I dont think thats what the research indicates. There are plenty of studies showing consumer interest in made in america goods cs chinese and how much it costs to manufacture in china actually.
About 34 years ago I had the same experience with work boots.
I had started a part time construction job while in college and bought a pair of cheap boots. My feet were completely destroyed at the end of a shift.
I bought another pair of cheaper boots with the same result. A number of coworkers suggested I buy a pair of Red Wings so I went down and spent the $180 on a pair of very nice work boots.
I had those boots for years and my feet never hurt again.
Good boots / shoes are always worth it in the end.
I’ve had redwing tube socks that are still elastic and fully in tact.
They are 30 years old.
I feel like i heard once that their socks were a big deal but that wasnt my focus.
I can not believe the value I got out of a $6 pair of socks.
Granted. That was 1990’s $6, so basically a weeks salary in today’s dollar, but ya know
I believe elementelectronics makes is all American made devices. I don't know if they get chips from China though.
Those computer boards are almost always the weak link on new appliances and there is for all intents no way the components are not coming from China, Hong Kong or South Korea, the cost to source and replace a defective board is almost always cost prohibitive, and to buy a used one is rolling the dice as they generally all start failing at the same amount of use...
I hear stories like this all the time, especially in the CNC world. American shops won't hardly touch a job unless it's 25k+, meanwhile the Chinese guys will have it done before you're finished negotiating with the domestic folks.
Sad state of affairs when people who want to have work done in the US, can't because some shop owner has decided they'd rather keep the reserve capacity in case some hot job comes through so they can gouge someone.
Yep, I spent 3 months contacting every US/Canada manufacturer I could find, and only about half even bothered to return my inquiries for a low volume initial 1000pcs run, and probably 75% of the ones that did contact me said they could have their 'overseas partner' do it for me, negating the entire purpose of trying to find an American or Canadian company to do the work... Some were downright silly, wanting $10K or more in 'tooling' cost alone over and above their per pcs quote that was through the roof...
When I picked the Chinese company, they quoted me under $10 a unit and around $100 for tooling, and they shipped them DHL overnight for free about 10 days after I wired them the money...
To put this in perspective, my maket goal price was $100, with the ability to sell at $75 if I wanted to do a sale... Not a single US or Canadian company quoted me under $100 a unit, while the Chinese were willing to make them for $10 and ship to them to me for free...
It really left a bad feeling in my gut, I wanted so much to have an entirely made in the US product, but after that experience, I gave up...
The one thing I will note about having shit made in China, your design is not going to be kept proprietary if they decide they can sell it to someone else they will try... I personally know of at least two people that were bringing a product to market to compete with one already on the market, and low and behold as luck would have it they had contacted the same Chinese manufacturer that was making the existing product they were competing against, in both cases the Chinese company said they could simply buy the product they were already making for the competitor 'under the table' at a deep discount vs them making their own similar design 🤣
I tried explaining this to my parents with cars:
"You can buy a brand new car that breaks in 4-6 years, it'll cost you almost a bare minimum of 30,000$"
bUt YoU gEt A wArRaNtEe tO fIx ThAt?!
"Or you can buy a decent used car from the 90's for around 5,000$, put another 5,000$ into basic maintenance; keep it clean and take care of it - that will outlast any car made today."
bUt wArRaNtEe?
Look man, seriously; I used to go out with my cousins and uncles to dig old trucks out of the mud; and when I say old, I mean, 1940's and 1950's trucks that'd been sitting in the woods, or mud bogs for 30 years...
You throw some gas in them, check the sparks, and you'll get them driving out on their own; you leave a brand new car parked for a week and it'll "die"
1998 Pickup out front.
I have a person a month saying "Do you want to sell that?"
It's recent enough to have airbags, but early enough to not be all locked down for repairs.
1999 Ford F-350 diesel dually 4x4
1973 Ford 100 with 3 on the tree
1968 Chevy C10 step side
Still driving them around the farm to this date
1996 Toyota T100 260k. All original daily driver.
++
Airbags were the line in the sand for me. I have 3 vehicles, all from their very last model year before airbags. All maintained in excellent mechanical condition, no significant rust either visible or underneath. I have no plans to ever buy anything newer.
Are you trying to argue that airbags are a bad thing?
Yea he is. He probably also doesn't like the 3-point seat belts either
Seat belts work - almost always - unless you're short.
Airbags don't. Side airbags are even worse than dash bags.
Yes
He is. Remember where you are, the land without cause and effect where literally everything is a conspiracy for some.
That’s why I don’t think the FBI bothers to plant anything here to discredit it. They check in, see some shit like “corporations only advertise on Twitter to support pedophilia” and “airbags kill you” and they close the browser and chuckle.
Airbags can kill or injure you however. Its not a theory. They literally have the warnings on them.
Surgery can kill you too.
Fucking idiots here. My God, sometimes I think we are doomed because we’re as fucking stupid as the blue hairs.
why don't u want airbags?
Airbags kill you.
Two friends of mine - Marines... went off the road at night in some out of the way area... airbags went off... killed both.
Takata
He said airbags - not bouncing Bettie’s!
Dangerous and expensive. Only time I've been in a real accident, it was a damn good thing I didn't have airbags, or I wouldn't have been able to regain control. I would have gotten T-boned at highway speed, and God knows how many other vehicles would have crashed in the ensuing pile-up.
Also airbags are the reason people are now forced to put babies and toddlers in the back seat. Look up the stats on the massive increase in babies and toddlers dying after being forgotten in hot cars in the back seat since airbags were introduced -- over 10 times as many deaths! Nobody ever forgot their baby was in the car when babies rode right next to their driving parent in the front seat.
Probably because they always make safety checks a pain in the ass
I've seen some videos on yt where people do exactly that. If the vehicle was manufactured before the 80s, it seems they always manage to get them up and running again. Regardless of fuel efficiency, I think we're going to see a future where people will be begging for anything reliable and repairable because the alternatives will be overpriced disposable trash or a horse and buggy.
Survivorship bias.
We aren't seeing the cars that fell apart beyond repair.
Obama’s Cash for Clunkers destroyed millions of older cars that would still be running today.
This. Decimated lots of small businesses as well as frugal families that were content with their old, paid off car.
I think very few of those cars fell apart beyond repair. More like "it's easier to buy a new car than replace a head gasket" syndrome. And into the scrap yard they go.
I wanna go to the scrapyard and get different parts from reliable models and make a frankencar
Automatic transmissions are always expensive to replace
Id love to see examples for new cars that have problems worse than this. I think people saying the older cars are more reliable are insane. Manufacturing is way better and also metals and materials are way more durable. You can literally see the difference, vehicles are bigger and all the parts are thicker and sturdier. Open up the hood of an 80s supra and you’ll see paper thin hinges etc that are rusted out. Also the head gaskets were torqued wrong from factory, and Toyota is the king of reliability! 90s is shit too, my family was a victim if the dodge plymoth minivan like so many others.
You are both right. Modern cars are more reliable, BUT you can’t do most potentially needed repairs yourself. An older “less reliable” vehicle might break down more often, but it could be repaired indefinitely without needing proprietary tools, knowledge, and parts.
My 1985 bmw had better paint in 2010 than some year old cars at the time.
Engines and ECUs are definitely better. I'll take overhead cams and variable valve timing any day. No argument here. My complaint is mainly with thin, light shitty steel that rusts out
In this thread: A lot of pedes who never had a Chrysler K car 😅
70s and early 80s cars were solid, for the most part. I lived my Toyota Celica and my pickup. They're still probably out on some road. The trucks were great. Then they started loading them up with power options and half baked anti smog plumbing.
toyota celica?
scotty kilmer is that you?!
lol, no.
And I saw my old 1973 El Camino still on the road in the mid 2000s.
I have a 1991 F350 dually with 72k miles on it. If you depress the accelerator just a bit too far, it launches itself with tires spinning. It scares the heck out of my wife. The only thing I don't like about it is 9 mpg. Runs amazingly well, though & passes every smog test with amazing #s. Oh... one more negative - it's 21ft long & with big tires & won't fit in the garage. I've tried car covers, but the wind causes rubbing & it wears the paint off, plus car covers seem to be a hot item for thieves.
9 mpg is not an issue when your tank holds 125 😂
It's the size of my wallet that matters, not the tank.
Whipper snapper. They never improved on the Model A. You could literally use bacon rind for rod bearing and go across the country on that. Air conditioning and 8 track tapes were commie plots to make America soft.
The real reason is safety ratings. If you want to pass a crash test, the vehicle has to be easy to destroy.
Old cars were buot like bricks and after a crash would look brand new. The problem is in a crash, if the vehicle doesn't get crumbled and destroyed then a lot more force is transfered to the occupants and they die.
All the different regulations make a pref ct storm so that's it's hard to make a simple machine that's still legal to sell.
A good example is washing machines. The EPA fucked them and now all the new ones are less effective and break easier. That center post that spins the clothes? Can't use those now because they don't meet guidelines. Even if a company wants to build a good washing machine it's illegal.
A lot of that same crazy regulations effect random parts on cars.
This guy physics.
Who are you with your facts and logic? You know you don’t belong here.
You live in a place where they don't use road salt, right?
I'm in the market for 90's toyotas. I want to strip the engine down 100% then rebuild to specs. And give it to my son as his first car.
Too much unnecessary junk hooked up.
google the "poor tax"
it's where poor ppl have to spend more money than rich ppl
I like that, rings true.
yeah and think of the landfills and disposal
I thought shit had to be "sustainable"
give me a 1970s fridge all day, every day
shit lasts and you don't toss it like old socks
Can confirm. I've got an '80s era American made Maytag washer and dryer set, electric/gas models, you plug them into a regular outlet. Still washing clothes without a hitch every single week. FWIW, supposedly Maytag still makes some appliances in the USA.
I have my parents 1974 Maytags in the mud room. They wash the nasty farm clothes as my wife won't have that shit in her Boschs (or whatever shes got in there)
I take my shit covered (literally) gas and diesel infused wranglers, some Tide and pop them in those maytags and shit in about 30 minute they are clean. Dryer works great too. Cool thing is you can easily remove the tubs for cleaning them if required.
👍
80's? My 1962 tappan oven would like a chat with you.
kek
I'm not playing. Still works. It's a built in, stainless steel with chrome everything. It's quite nice. Very small. I'm taking it out and selling it and selling it this summer in favor of a wine chiller.
I believe you. My grandma used to have one of those beautiful light turquoise blue/green fridges with the lever handle, I'm thinking it was a Philco from the '40s. She was still using it in the late 1980s.
They do. I bought a washer and dryer set back in 2020. Made in USA and with a 10 year warranty.
Eco bullshit with the refrigerant compound plays a part as well.
Coming soon with battery powered cars too.
The landfills will be miles deep with the things while the used vehicle market is going to end up looking like Cuba, with 50 year old gas models being sold back and forth.
I'm an appliance repairman. I made this other meme the other day coincidentally. I do warranty work for major manufactures. Both big and small . AMA.
Just leaving a comment so I can find you again easily once I figure out my questions.
I’m building a new house. What’s the best kitchen appliance brand?
Personally I'm a KitchenAid guy. I love their dark and chrome packages. If you got money to blow go Jenn-Air! The people to ask would be actual appliance professionals. In our area that would be Furgesons or Aztec Appliance.
Home Depot sucks. Their return policy sucks worse. If you go with a big box store and not a local appliance pro go to Costco. You'll at least get a 2 year factory warranty.
ALWAYS BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY. (AIG or something) It's about $225 for 5 years per appliance on average. It's worth it in the parts alone. Service call fee is $140, parts ~$300 labor ~$200+
Whirlpool makes appliances in America. I've had good luck with them.
Avoid GE if at all possible. Absolute junk. (I used to work at an appliance store)
Yes I just got a whirlpool washer and dryer. Had to search for ones w/o all the WiFi shit. I figured the less extras the better.
I miss Sears and the old Kenmore appliances.
I bought my kenmore fridge at Costco after my LG shit the bed.
This is why the 70s fridge lasted longer. Airtight box that kept shit cold. That’s it. That’s all it did and had to do.
Viking, Wolf, Sub-Zero
Yipes. That’s mucho $$$. I’m broke.
Whirlpool
Where can I get step by step appliance repair manuals?
That's a loaded question. Whirlpool offers their tech sheets and service manuals through a website called servicesmatters.com but you need to pay for the subscription (~$400/year) What's great about servicematters is you can take the courses and become whirlpool certified. They have a tech line you can call and the master tech will walk you through it.
Whirlpool is top to bottom Jenn-Air, KitchenAid, Maytag/Whirlpool, Amana etc The etc are just new brands they are acquiring.
G.E. Open the top of the console, you'll find the tech sheet or at least the wiring diagram folded up. Can't find many resources online.
Samsung? Good luck finding anything!
Kenmore: Wiring diagrams and tech sheets like G.E. products but sometimes they provide support. They have an 800 number you can call. Kenmore is actually just now adays mostly re-branded GE and whirlpool products.
If you want to learn how to repair. Repairclinic.com has great video resources. Type in the part number and it'll give you a big, beautiful image of the part (generally) and a video on how to install it. Or just go to servicematters.
Lots of physics concepts involved. Not everything is a repair in the sense that you need parts. It could just be a simple adjustment of the feet to stop a noise or even air migration into a refrigerator.
Awesome answer! Thank you!
I have been very lucky with repairclinic.com and YouTube.
We have fixed a dryer that didn’t heat, a fridge that leaked water from the top freezer, and a dishwasher that didn’t get the dishes clean (chopper blades).
Dryer was probably either coils or igniter for no heat. Fridge the drain iced over because heater circuit was malfunctioning some how. Either thermistor malfunctioned or thermal probe wasn't in drain I'm assuming. If it were a no-cool in the fridge then it may have also been evap motor
What's an "In this house" sign?
A lot of libs put up signs that say "In this house we support black lives... believe women are men"...
Ah, the only ones I've seen are conservative values. Lol, good, fuck them. I'm sure they stole it from those as usual. Take something and diminish it or run damage control "thos people are crazy" stuff. Taking it away from us is business as usual to them shitstains. How long you been fixing stuff?
I've been a technician since the 90s in various fields. Mainly IT and microelectronics. I got a CCNP about 10 years ago. I tried starting a business that encompassed all of this and it just turned into appliance repair.
This
I want to know if any fridge/freezers or electric ovens are actually made in USA? Want them.
It's called 'planned obsolescence'. Much harder to bilk customers of their money when you make quality products that last, because you might not see them again for years to come. Who gives a damn if they're loyal or not? Once you remove all other buying options they don't have a choice but to use your crap, or some equally shitty alternative, at which point you've got them by the balls. They'll be stuck with your shoddy bullshit whether they like it or not.
And its not limited to just applicances.
Microsoft is a giant offender. Xboxes that conveniently die within a month or two of a new Xbox comes out. Same goes for their laptops and tablets.
Never by Microsoft hardware
If you make a refrigerator that lasts 100 years, you sell one refrigerator, once.
If you make a refrigerator that lasts 10 years, you get to sell a refrigerator every 10 years.
... and you didn't even need to keep the one guy in the company that designed it. The engineer can be fired for 9.9 years.
My washer and dryer set are now 40 years old, came with the house I bought. Work like a charm. Maytag USA
I would say even today, a dryer will last indefinitely if you know how to fix it. They're very simple machines. Washers not so much.
A dryer is basically a toaster for clothing.
You’d be surprised how shit chynese manufacturing is.
Some is shit. Some is quite good.
I've replaced the belt 3 times on our Maytag dryer. That's the only issue that it's ever had.
I have a 25 year old refrigerator in my garage. It has already out lived the refrigerator I bought to replace it 7 years ago.
Commedic gold fren.
My mom still has her fridge from back in that day. Yes, it is the hideous"pissed-on eggshell" color.
Rustoleum appliance paint is awesome. I used it on a 1970s fridge in a house I was about to sell (inherited the fridge when I bought the house). Ended up staying in the house for a couple years after painting it. It still seriously looked like new. Don't let your mom get rid of that fridge thinking you'd never want it because of the color.
Oh, it's tip-top, but that isnt a sightly color. It's not going anywhere.
Contact paper, my fren. You can make it any color you want.
"Harvest Gold"
Basically, you buy any used appliance in avocado green, and it's going to last you.
Or Harvest Gold.
And I can personally attest to the durability and ease of application of Rustoleum appliance paint. Just because it was born avocado green doesn't mean it has to stay avocado green. And if you want fancier colors than Rustoleum's white or almond choices, I'm pretty sure any automotive paint would work great too.
Wtf is up with glass top stoves. I am clean person but can't say that about everyone here. Top is scratched, fogged and burned off. Stupid thing is less than 2 years old. Will have to pay $350 for new top. Screw that! Cheap POS stove and can't find one with coils that will fit.
Built outdoor kitchen with gas stove because wasn't feasible to run gas inside.
My aunt has a glass-top stove. They were definitely made for show, not heavy use. They look great in photos, but you'd better only use it once a week or less.
Toothpaste a micro fiber, warm water, and soft plastic scrapers. I deep clean my glass top once a month.
Dampen glass top with water.
2 tablespoons of arm and hammer toothpaste.
With bare hands (no rings on fingers) rub the toothpaste into the top. Keep rubbing. Pour hot water on top as needed.
Scrape with plastic scrapers as needed.
Do this once a month and it stays clean. Mine is 5 and looks brand new other than where my wife scratched it with cast iron.
Haven't tried that one. Will give it a try. But my stove is heavy use and I am the only one who doesn't boil things over and burn stuff to the top.
Thanks for the tip.
Much of the appeal is how easy it looks to clean. Basically just wipe it like any table.
If it was just me, might be fine. But unfortunately my worse half can't seem to NOT boil things over and burn things to the eye.
Plus I like cooking with cast iron. I don't very carefully unlike someone else here that treats it like a short order cook in a New York diner!
Ooh, I have one of 'em glass top stoves. It looks like fucking shit after less than a year of use. Fuck, when it was delivered it wasn't even in perfect condition. The top was scratched. What a load of shit.
My grandparents fridge, stove, and furnace were installed when they build the house in 1960. They all still work perfectly fine. Meanwhile my 2010 house is already on its second fridge and the HVAC needs contant parts.
Ah, my old furnace, and water heater were kick-ass. The newer efficient ones need repair every now, and again. Absolute horseshit. Made in China garbage.
Prime example of the EPA destroying products and forcing people to buy more often.
Most appliances are lasting only three to five years now. We replaced my mother's refrigerator with a new one a few years back. Other family members thought it quit and bought her a new one, turned out to be a bad breaker. I put the old one online. It sold quickly, for a lot. GE themselves bought it for their museum. It was all original, in good shape and from the 1950's. New refrigerator lasted three years and the compressor quit, and was too expensive to repair vs cost of a new one.
When I moved to where I am now, I went on Craigslist and found a local man who refurbs older appliances. Bought a washer and dryer that are indeed mature, but in very good appearance and functional conditional shape. Not a problem and its been two years.
Thats a fact..I gave up my search for a new one now...had my old one repaired..even the repair man said they just dont make them like they used to..he called my "old school" but a great fridg..lol That convinced me to keep it probably will get many more years out of it. Besides I'm not really crazy about the french door style..lol
I used to work in the parts side of Major appliance manufacturing, When these products were built at home the products was far superior, there were decent jobs that people could feel proud of as people were generally getting their moneys worth. I have heard endless stories about how long peoples appliances lasted for and how thankful a Family would be to not have to keep paying up to keep a washer and dryer functional. Planned obsolescence has taken a huge toll on us all.
I had a freezer I bought in 1987. It survived eight moves, working in high heat before it finally died in 2016.
I'd have repaired it if I could've found the parts...
Check eBay. You'd be surprised how many people are selling parts for very, very old appliances. Mostly OEM taken from discarded appliances.
You should look into the history behind how the refrigeration process works. To my understanding there used to be a type of refrigeration chemical / process that was incredibly long lasting and energy efficient and some companies involved in that sector basically lobbied to get it made illegal because they 1) didn't want to compete and 2) needed people to continue buying new refrigerators. It's the reason why you'll see fridge's from the 70's / 80's still going strong but new fridges break down within 3-4 years, because the old one's use the process from before it got lobbied into oblivion.
1963 here. we use it for beer and stuff on the porch
One of the biggest downsides of losing my house in a wildfire in 2018 is that we also lost a refrigerator that had been in my family since 1987, and was our garage fridge at the time.
It still worked great. Probably because it still had real Freon in it instead of that crap refrigerant they use these days.
Whirlpool still makes appliances in the USA. It's the only appliances that I buy.
Go to an estate auction. You can get old quality American made stuff for next to nothing usually.
This is one of those areas where I really wish "Open Source Hardware" types would be involved.
A common $100 brainbox can handle all of fridge, freezer, microwave, range, oven, dishwasher, washer, dryer.
Then they have 1-2 hundred of specialty power handling, or bog-standard motors.
Those are the parts that "wear out" in the $1000 widgets. "Oh, new fridge needed dear!" Sigh.
We have a 4 burner gas frigidaire stove/oven that was at least 20 years old when we bought this house n now we have been here 15 years and it’s still going strong!
Speed queen.
I like to shop at estate sales. Found a made in America hand held can opener (wanted a couple for when everything goes to shit 🙃) and it was $1. It’s really heavy, unlike the other one I have from China.
I work at Gea in Louisville Ky, unfortunately we were bought by the Chinese in 2016. Our products are made in America with parts from all over Asia and America. Our products are over engineered junk with 1600 parts in a refrigerator.
Ours was nicknamed Cold Yeller
Reason: Made in China
Yes I'm still rocking it . I replaced the fan motor all is good.
I owned this exact same fridge for decades. The funny part is we didn't replace it because it broke or anything like that, we just wanted a fridge that looked better.
2022 fridge be like "you are out of condoms order more, also here on this facebook post you had a post that sounded close to racism passing by on a freeway in a truck please delete you have two demerit points"
Just bought a new computer chair…got a name brand hoping it was made in the USA. Nope. “Made In China” printed on the box. It does have a much higher quality than the usual garbage from there, but the same weak link as all have is obvious: thin, shitty welding.
Yeah seems like welding and steel quality is always piss poor whenever it comes to anything made in china.
I’m worried about the design and steel quality too…it’s thick enough but if it’s soft, it’s going to bend with the way it’s designed. Everything felt like good quality besides that weld though. It was a Serta chair and it feels sturdy and comfy too.