We’re at 'a tipping point’ in Ukraine, Ernst says
Winning the war in Ukraine could come down to speed -- how quickly the White House and Congress can authorize spending on weapons and how fast companies such as Raytheon Technologies can build them and get them in the field.
Bought by the US taxpayers to be fired off in a proxy war.
Orwell predicted this.
Ordinance Expenditure Wars in third world states.
Seriously 1984 + Brave New World is a spot on dystopian prophecy of modern life.
Corrupt mass espionage and totalitarian police state combined with hedonistic degeneracy and glorification of suicide.
Used in proxy war? I bet not. I bet most of them are being sold again.
Consider that the DOD can't account for about 60% ($2 trillion) of assets it claims to have. They have entire warehouses full of spare parts (neither of which exist on paper) they ordered and they don't even know what the parts are for or how to find a part if they needed it. They also have tons of things (from toiletries up to entire buildings and aircraft) that exist only on paper, and are either misplaced, disappeared on the back of a truck, or never existed.
They can't acknowledge these internally, accurately catalog, surplus, or dispose of them because accounting for them might reveal why billions of dollars worth of unnecessary parts were dumped into storage, or why they only received part (or none) of their order.
Yet I knew a soldier once who dropped his rifle that was run over by a tank. They came down hard on everyone until that rifle was found.
Try losing an AN/PVS 7. Looked for a week til a crackhead Ssgt with the motor pool was arrested for stealing and then pawning it.
Had to do a shoulder to shoulder police call across a couple acres to find a set
I'm surprised that he was able to get a pawnshop to even take it. I remember my Dad finding some kind of exam paperwork from when he was in the Air Force from decades before (and this was decades ago now) that he had been responsible for giving to personnel in an old leather satchel. He flipped out and burned the entire lot in the wood stove right then and there. LOL
Pretty sure he was arrested trying to pawn them. This was at Camp Lejeunne in the late 90s.
My dad, WW2. A guy left his rifle on a train. Even though the Army found it at the next stop, they made the soldier pay for it.
Friend got out of navy in 74, leaving last post he went to armory to turn in rifle, serial number was not on list so they would not take it…. He traded it for a new transmission 10 yrs later
For some reason this made me think of the Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch.
I'm here to return this rifle.
Checks serial number
No, this isn't one of ours.
But, it is one of yours. You gave it to me!
No. No. You must be mistaken.
But it says property of the US government right there!
It's not in our system so you must have gotten it somewhere else.
I heard a lot of soldiers in Vietnam picked up AK47s off the VC soldiers...
I actually thought that it was more of a modern (post Vietnam) thing for soldiers to have to pay for their own stuff. During the D-Day invasion I guess they weren't too worried about things like that.
Funny thing: A couple of years ago they discovered some parchments from around zero BC. It was scraps of pay records from a Roman Legion. A new recruit's first pay was next to zero because he had to pay for his armor and stuff. Screwing soldiers is not a new thing.
Anyone who has been in or around the DoD for long has heard the stories about buried airplanes, trucks, etc. Who knows what's true vs. base legend, but people keep telling the stories because they make sense.
If you have an "extra" vehicle in your motor pool because some dunce at the Pentagon forgot how to count, you have two choices: Fight to make it right, which will likely involve telling multiple people who outrank you that they're full of shit...or make the truck disappear. Which of these two options is going to cause your command staff less grief?
A story in Chickenhawk about a Huey pilot in Vietnam. One day a Huey on a supply run dissapeared. No trace found. When his unit reported on the loss, it seems every scrap of gear that the unit had lost over months had been loaded on that aircraft, enough to fill a C-5. They just used the dissapearance to write off all the shit that was lost.
That is one of my favourite war memoirs.
☝️☝️This guy DoD's.
Everything you say is true and it's funny because when I was in we couldn't find a ream of printer paper to save our lives lol.
Just think, how easy would it be for bad actors to buy these stingers and smuggle them right back here, through the southern border, and use them against us.
I'm sure we only supply "moderate" terrorists and therefore nothing could possibly go wrong
coming to an airport near you.
Of course, but its the excuse for the expenditure of ordinance.
You forgot This Perfect Day. No one remembers This Perfect Day....
Never read it. Briefly browsed a synopsis.
I see why you'd want to include it, but I am a bit reluctant. It is a more specific and direct critique of socialism and the death of the individual than 1984 and Brave New World.
1984 is about how a totalitarian state enforces control. Fear, surveillance, fake/real resistances, great figures to be hated/loved by the populace, censorship. How the party does not fear the proletariat, but internal revolution most.
Brave New World is about how man desires the control of government and the hedonism of abundance. Many man would sell his soul just to feel happy and blissful no matter the cost.
This book, from synopsis, seems far more about how one man enforcing utopia can be overthrown by those desiring freedom.
I think it stands apart because in This Perfect Day there is a solution. There is a way to end the madness. There is no solution in 1984, nor in Brave New World. Because the people have accepted the yoke.
So both authors were very well connected with the inner circles that have been plotting our current state of affairs for over 100 years plus. They were not stating hypotheticals, they were stating the plan as they knew it. It’s an early form of pre-programming.
Huxley was bounced on the knee of none other than Allistar Crowley.
Speaking of Satanists, weirdos and freemasons that reminds me, you should read up on Albert Pike if you haven’t already. Back in the 1850s, he “predicted” three world wars.
Oh yeah, I’ve read a good amount on Pike.
Yes, TPD had a happy ending. But, hits the technocracy/pharamchological angles missing from other two. They have forced vaccinations/hormone treatments, AI decides everything, forced euthanasia, they even have something akin to covid passports on bracelets.
Not quite. I mean a drug you can just stop taking and then you get your own island nation to be contained in is a bit silly. Brave New World has voluntary ingestion of Soma.
Kind of like "Send him to Guantanamo."
No more like "outcast island". And then if you become a successful terrorist you get to join the big shots! The fact the society didn't implode day one when someone just pretended to be part of the system and sabotaged it from the inside made me question this book's grasp on story telling.
Or We
Is it truly a prophecy if those in power use it as a playbook to make it come to pass?
They were resold to Africa and are showing up in African wars now.
You spelled "sold to Iran" wrong..
Putin is trolling US taxpayers via the Ukraine war.
People always ask why he lets it go on. Here's your answer. He's printing money over there at our expense.
They got a lot, some vids of Russian’s buying them from their Ukrainian cousins lmao
They should trade them for Russian oil
did we put GPS trackers in them?
no, but we are adding them to all cars next year. government concerned about our whereabouts and our 600 way more than nuclear armageddon.
Why is Russia unable to win then?
They are, look at the land that they have taken and where the resources in the country are. The current average k/d is 7-12 depending on the region. They're burning the West’s supply of weapons and most Nato nations except the few most powerful have exhausted their entire stockpile of munitions and only have their essential minimums left.
Describe winning.
Taking Kiev, installing pro-Russian puppet government or annexing the whole territory of Ukraine.
That's not their goal. If it were, they would have already done it. They also wouldn't have set terms for withdrawal and made numerous offers to negotiate for peace.
When they are unable to reach their goal, they redefine goals.
theyll now need to buy more, northrop grumman stock will skyrocket
Fucking woman-led defense contractors crushed earnings all year.
Our blood, their wealth. Fuck them forever.
In some cases, we lend them the money that they use to buy. Which we know they won't be paying.
THIS, right here is a huge reason for the "Ukrainian War ." WarPigs.
I know for a FACT, a FACT, on the day of 9/11, executives at Raytheon CHEERED and bellowed how their stock was going to go through the roof. "So many Paveway Bomb Kits will be sold! Yeah!"
At the time, Raytheons 401k was all Raytheon Stock AS WELL. Not diversified, That's how they did it. Not one mention of a lot of people needlessly dying, NO, THEY WERE PARTYING BABY!
I own Raytheon stock.
I also own tobacco stock.
But check this out... as a farmer if I plant the wrong plant into the ground the federal police will raid me.
But if I buy stock in a company that plants the wrong plant in the ground I'm allowed to take dividends and profit off of it.
Their stock and earnings should tank if the fine is big enough, so there is definitely still risk.
the original "buy the dip"
More like stolen from the American people
.......or destroyed in transit or storage.
exhausting a "13 year supply" of stingers in only 10 months in a war we are not waging... maybe raytheon has overstated the sufficiency of their stockpile, and reality has exposed this.
Yeah really! If this little "war" used our 13 year supply,,. Well we're fucked
Think HARD now. Maybe those stingers were NOT actually used in fighting the Russians. Maybe they've just disappeared, MOE MONEY, while Criminals in Ukraine CLAIM / LIE they were used. All we "know" is they are missing. They can't keep tack of Trillions, what's a few thousand missiles.
I have every reason to believe in a future Forever War, Americans WILL DIE from those Stingers and ALL the weapons Ukraine claim to have "used."
Where is the half of Russian airforce then?
Where is the wreckage of half the Russian airforce then. Ruh-Roh. Bwha!
There are special websites that collect photo & video of the wreckage, like Oryx.
You are underestimating just how many planes they have. Also, when analyzed, I believe they have been planning this for a couple years due to increased production
You can see countless videos of Ukrainians using stingers and javelins.
You can fantasize all you want about weapons being used against Americans. Clutch your pearls hard enough and maybe it'll actually happen one day. Do you have any idea how many weapons were smuggled during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?? And not a single jet liner or civilian tank destroyed back home...
Yet.
Sadly, it is using that much because Ukraine is getting the shit for free from everyone, they have no cares, as it's all free and the stream of free stuff keeps flowing... Instead of actually targeting stuff with a high probability of actually hitting it and making progress and plans they are just tossing this shit towards the Russians as fast as they can...
Ukraine has no strategy, they have no plan, they have no skills, all they have been doing is sending everything and the kitchen sink in the direction of the Russians with no cares...
When they say things like 1 year supply, it's based on US stock and training use, we may use 10K of this or that a year training, and thus 100K is a 10 year supply, but now we are sending 20K a month to Ukraine and they lob it all in the direction of Russia in the first week after it arrives...
The elephant in the room that no one talks about is that Russia has and still is able to go 1:1 with this level of fighting, even though Ukraine is getting new shit shipped to them by basically every NATO country every week, Russia has stockpiles of crap and they are single-handedly weakening all the NATO countries ability to defend themselves, and have done that in under a year... China is salivating, they will invade Taiwan shortly knowing full well the US and NATO don't have anything left in inventory to help Taiwan...
The ol' rope-a-dope?
I believe Russia is doing just that based on the WWI&WWII level of munitions Ukraine is burning through each week with essentially no gains...
we'll be okay... RTX can just raise their prices to reduce demand. "$50B aid package" will just mean half as many weapons as before
They needed to clean out old stock.
But Russia is getting their shit pushed in!
We wouldn't be leaning so much on stingers in a conflict with Russia or China and have an air force that in theory would be the ones winning air superiority. I wonder how many of that 13 year supply is now comfortably in the hands of bad actors who will use them on us.
Don't forget that the UK and Polish also have their versions they shipped to the Ukrainians as well.
You only have to think of what type of equipment is in those devices to understand why the "stockpile" is so low. We sold off most of our manufacturing and technology industry and moved them into China.
This is great.. because it drives up prices for things like Stingers, oh, and hey look! We suddenly need a bunch more. Oh, and the old designs? Obsolete. Can't get the parts. They're going to need to redesign them to make them more expensive.
War is a racket.
I would not be surprised in the least if these Stingers were about to "expire" in some way and they needed to clear the way for the "new and improved" stingers that fortunately are in next years RATHEON catalog.
Stingers are near end of life, however the replacement's design cycle just started in April 2022 and the contract is not planned to be awarded before 2026. Raytheon currently has a contract to figure out how to provide about 1.5k Stingers as a stop gap, which will require a significant redesign to achieve, so it isn't like there is a replacement on the shelf and ready for production.
create the demand then be there to provide the supply.
Well the main thing to consider is many of these companies are producing 1 to 300 units at most monthly for a lot of their arms, at incredible markup.
Essentially they have skeleton crews doing the minimum amount of manufacturing while getting the largest pay checks they can.
Essentially what raytheon is doing right now is saying "hey, give us a fuckload of money to increase our manufacturing capability, and a fuckoff huge purchase order please. You dont want to look bad when the silo is empty do you ;)"
They likely sold at least half of them. They’re already popping up in Africa. They’ll be used against our soldiers at some point.
Fact check: True
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/athena-thorne/2022/12/04/u-s-arms-sent-to-ukraine-make-their-way-to-boko-haram-n1650836
The article does not say what kind of weapons have been smuggled out. Likely it will be nothing more than small arms and RPGs.
Why are you trying to run damage control for the federal government?
Lol
There is zero evidence of these missiles ending up in Africa, or anywhere else.
Uh, no. There is actually zero evidence. Unless you know something I don't...?
I`m dumbfounded at the lack of simple logic in the comments and with every visit it gets worse. Ukraine wants to keep running their corrupt country. If it falls to Russia their corrupt oligarchs will run it. To keep it running they are obviously at least holding the frontline as Russia is struggling to keep the frontline.
The way they do it is OBVIOUSLY with our weapons lol. That´s why they took back Russian won territory.
I wish pedes here would understand how absolutely shit Russian military is vs. NATO weapons. The only reason Ukraine didn`t totally crush Russia yet is that NATO only gives them as much as is needed to keep the war and kickbacks going.
Sure, but individuals within Ukraine want to enrich themselves.
If some Ukrainian captain gets a shipment of 50 stingers and he has the chance to change the documents to say it was only 40 stingers, and make 10 disappear so that he can resell them later... he could do that.
The Kharkiv offensive was almost without a battle when most of the volunteers went home. Een the UK military noted the Russians pulled back in good order. They were not top-line troops in the area. 6 month contracts to serve in Ukraine dominated the forces, which expired in August. hence the mobilization.
Kherson was an area that people said was a mistake to take so early, due to supplying it over only two bridges. All battles to eject Russia failed, and they made claims they weren't going to leave- until they once again pulled out in good order, which the UK confirms was the case.
All Russian territorial loss stems from them thinking it was a short war to shock Ukraine into surrendering, resulting in major issues that cropped up later. Despite having the larger army with Western support, Ukraine has yet to eject Russia from a city in a full battle.
Shit against Western Contractors.
Not sure what that has to do with our weapons being smuggled to Africa or not, but I mostly agree with you. I would add that our weapons are pretty good, but what has been more decisive for Ukraine has actually been the training and organizational help from NATO over the last several years. They are able to fight more like a western army. Russia is still stuck in its retarded Soviet way of fighting, which very few exceptions. This makes all the difference, really. Without good organization, leadership, and intel, our fancy weapons wouldn't be nearly as effective. Ukraine is doing very well. I wouldn't say we are holding them back by much by not giving them more amd better weapons. I think the fighting is just that difficult. They have limits on their ability to generate and absorb troops into their force structure. They're doing it, but only at a certain rate. They are losing men at a certain rate too. Their counter-offensives are appropriate to the pace they are capable of based on their limitations and the reality of the battlefield. Russia, on the other hand, clearly has no fucking clue how to fight a coherent war. They tried to zerg rush them and got bogged down. They don't know how to maintain a pace for offense or even how to defend. That's why they keep mindlessly going for these single objectives like Bakmhut, getting nowhere while their lines are pushed back elsewhere. Totally retarded. They showed they had no idea what they were doing from day 1 of this war.
Edit: triggered some russofags lol!
Lol
Western small unit tactics are why Ukraine's daily attacks keep getting snuffed out and they have such higher losses...
Lol!!!
Well, there`s a narrative that Ukraine is losing within our community. Obviously wrong. Even worse and at Q levels high is the notion that Russia is just playing nice and will soon attack.
You are completely right. Russia is only set up to Zerg Rush a weaker enemy into submission. Without NATO training and weapons Ukraine would be done. But now Russia is actually losing their better assets cause they have no means of protecting them against NATO weapons and the combined Warfare which comes through the training you mention. The result is them pulling back as NATO has much better range.
The missile threat of course hurts Ukrainian infrastructure but Russia is not capable of mass producing missiles forever and the Air defense is getting tighter and more varied through NATO training.
The results on the battlefield clearly show that the weapons and training arrives at Ukraine and is not shipped in a meaningful way somewhere else. The profit is mostly made via kickbacks.
Having a huge part of a Frontline run by a mercenary force Wagner, like at the pivotal Bakhmut is insane. There`s obviously no communication.
News flash...Americans munitions stock piles are taking a huge hit as well by "giving" munitions to Ukraine.
Almost everything that the US has given has been from stockpiles. I don't think Raytheon even has any contracts to resupply these. Biden administration is just depleting everything we have to fuck the US long term.
He is. Deliberately so.
more reasons to buy more later… hard to justify buying when you got stock
They want that Third World War. They see that as the path to cement control and rebound the economy to fill their coffers.
Our military is being attacked from all sides without a single shot fired at us. We are being depleted and left vulnerable, and then we will have to spend heavily to rebuild. All bullshit. Add in the clot shot mandates and the people that fly the aircraft are vulnerable to being grounded, or worse.
The youngest generation of troops are all commies, trannies and minorities who hate this country anyways.
Ukraine cannot win this fight no matter how much the US gives them. Russia is not the inept outdated military that the MSN would have you believe. Russia does not have the best offensive military because they built it up as a defensive military. Russia doesn't want to go attacking other countries. What they are doing in Ukraine is defending against an encroaching threat known as the U.S. and Nato. They will not let Ukraine fall to the enemy. Yes, we are the baddies.
Also the Russian army is an artillery army that has tanks. People assume that if you don't do German or American blitzkriegs then you must be bad. The K:D ratio at the front is fulfilling the day 1 objective of manually disarming Ukraine. Shells will continue to explode until people stop picking up arms. This is how Russia operated in every war in the last few decades, and even in WW1 and 2.
Bro... stop drinking the Putin Koolaid.
NATO only exists because USSR and later Russia have been aggressively treating their neighbors with disdain.
US has many bad qualities but do you really think Russia is the "good" guy? Hell no.
Nato should have been disbanded 30 years ago.
Seeing Russia's weakness this year says that you are probably right. Europe could defeat Russia if they pooled together without US help.
Maybe ... if they were willing to accept mass casualties. Only the Russians seem to be.
Neither Libya nor Iraq are even neighbors to US but both countries have been bombed into the 19th century by United States military.
yes, Russia really is the good guy on the world stage right now. One of the few.
Life is not as simple as one side must be good, and another bad. Both sides have good and bad qualities. Russia might not promote shit like LGBT faggotry, but they also don't have the freedom to criticize their own leader without ending up with polonium poisoning.
You speak of things you have zero knowledge of.
i speak Russian, have lived there for a while and have extended family there. People in Russia criticize him a lot.
Hell, most of their press and celebrities built their entire careers of doing that in public. Their cadre of urban liberals, who by the way are the majority of metropolitan population are as demented about him as lefties in US are about Trump and talking shit about Putin and Russian government is probably the most enjoyed hobby in every major city.
Daniel Larison: US Militarism Should Have Died With the Soviet Union
That`s not what is seen in reality though!
Russian military is set up to keep their satellite Republics in their hemisphere. That
s what they did with Ukraine too. They wouldve easily run it over if Ukraine didn`t get NATO equipment and training.NATO and our military is set up to absolutely crush Russia. And that`s why Russia has not moved the Frontline to their favour since Months, contrary thanks to our weapons gifted to Ukraine they took back a lot of the territory.
I understand why a lot on our side want Russia to win vs. Ukraine and wish that to be true but the reality looks different. As long as Ukraine gets NATO weapons Russia has no chance. All they can do is spam Missiles until they run out of them. The Russian economy is nowhere near that of the UDSSR which crusty old "experts" make it out to be.
Wrong. Russia has been amassing troops and equipment on the border for sometime now. They are just waiting for the ground to freeze. Most of Ukraine's military is dead or wounded. The biggest ground invasion the world has seen in a very very long time is about to happen. Polish troops in Ukrainian uniforms are running the equipment that they have received from other nations because you can't train the Ukrainians fast enough to use them themselves. Nato can't get into this fight and Russia can out produce them anyway.
When this is over you'll have to find a new source of information.
The ground was pretty hard in the summer and Russia was super busy... losing territory. But don't worry, here's how Bernie can still win:
Russia didn't have a half a million troops at the ready then. What do you think the half a million troops and a shit ton of equipment is doing at the border? Having a pajama party?
What do you think would happen if we pulled in half a million of our 18-20 year olds? You gonna re-train them from tiktok soy drag queens into hardened soldiers in a few weeks? Same problem, except instead of dildos and buttplugs, they have vodka.
I hope when this is all over you allow yourself to acknowledge how wrong you are about the situation with Russia. If you don't you'll remain ignorant.
Getting their affairs in order?
Russia, with GDP of $1.7T and limited trading partners due to sanctions, cannot outproduced NATO, with GDP of $32.4T.
Who do you think does the estimates and calculations of Russian GDP?
What happens to those calculations when you assume a western-style FIRE import economy?
What happens if a nation is largely self-sufficient with internal trade, and its primary external trade is exporting surplus energy or importing third-party tech from China?
What would the implications of such differences be on assumptions about evaluating a foreign economy?
That's exactly the right way of thinking. I always enjoy finding intelligent lifeforms on here.
It's not just about money.
Two more weeks, comrade.
The ground is freezing right now!!! So at anytime now, right?
But of course you are just subscribing to a fantasy. None of the predictions about Russia from the "Russia will save us from this" crowd ever came true. It reads like a Q fantasy.
The serious pro nationalist pro-Russian military bloggers tell a different story. The Russian military absolutely sucks against NATO weapons and nothing will happen. I mean.. remind me in 4 weeks how the freeze was going
On Saturday it will be in the 40's with rain for several days. I'm pretty sure that's not ground freezing conditions.
Russia is more inept than is shown on TV. Russia wants to attack other countries, all of their neighbors hate them
Come the freeze and a half a millions Russians march over the border into Ukraine. You come back and tell me then.
Look at their cold weather gear and troop quality. You think they got a half million men to march in winter?
Are you for real? Like a primate? Because I feel you're more like a piece of machinery.
Russia Russia Russia
So you only post propaganda about this?
No
Your last 20 comments are all about this.
I kind of think that guy is a bot or a shill.
Doesn’t make it propaganda
🤣
🤣
Yes, Belarus, China, India... They all hate Russia and are afraid of them too...
Dumbass.
Poland, Lithuania, Finland, Estonia, Ukraine, Czechia, Latvia hate that shithole.
Belarus is a puppet state but still not eager to join Putins new ussr.
Of course they do. They were all brutalized by the bolsheviks and the tiny hat crowd last century, and those folks were behind, and ruled, the Soviet Union.
But it would be anti-semetic for them to notice or remember, which would cost them the freebie handouts from the U.S.A. They gotta keep up with not educating their kids on the truth.
Yes, people don’t like invasions or despotic overlordships. See Ukraine
You are correct. We shouldn't have invaded Ukraine. Russia told us where their red lines were, and gave us plenty of time to reconsider before they were finally forced to defend their people.
The proxy war is fucking Russia up good though
And when he says used, he means sold.
Russia is one of the largest steel producers in the world (China is multiples ahead of everyone, so that's another topic).
They also stockpile like crazy, allocate large amounts of initial production to any new vessel or vehicle and that's on top of their stockpile.
They literally have enough bombs and munitions for decades of war because they're not building the fanciest shit, they're building shit that works.
US relies on smart everything, problem is, can't make enough of that shit until Congress approves their purchase. And they do approve them, but unlike the Russian set up, they just build them because it's part of the state and our shit is all fucking outsourced to private "defense contractors" that are nothing more than money laundering and cushy careers for faggots like "Mad Dog" and the like so you'll never get enough of the bombs you need, just more money to develop those "smarter" bombs that we're going to run out of faster than Russia will ever.
Now we need EMP-hardened mixed reality headsets, so add another 10x...
While the USAF can't ditch the A-10 fast enough, have always disliked the plane, because USAF brass has always had a hard on for strategic bombing over everything else. Though strategic bombing has NEVER won a war or been a major contributor. They used to brag about human sweat sensors and IR flying planes up and down the Ho Chi Minh trail, yet the NVA continued to supply itself...
Yet the A-10 is above and beyond the greatest close air support asset ever built, bar none. And no plans to replace it.
Then USAF paper pushers are like Katie Hobbs when it comes to bullshitting the statistics and faking the numbers of the kills, uses, and efficiency of the A-10 so they can buy more fancy bombers.
Don't get me started on Radar-guided missilier aircraft.
I hate our obsession with smart munitions - sure they have a place but for most purposes more explosives is better
"Quantity has a quality of it's own."
During the First Gulf War guided munitions accounted for only 9% of weapons fired, but accounted for 75% of all successful hits. Despite guided weapons generally being used on more difficult targets, they were still 35 times more likely to destroy their targets per weapon dropped.
So it takes 40 dumb munitions to equal one smart munition
Stingers are 120k (missile only), javelins 80k (missile only), RPG-7 warheads are $100
So 1200 RPG-7 warheads per stinger and 800 RPG-7 warheads per javelin.
Sure, you need to launch forty times as many to be equally effective, roughly. I just see an opportunity to blow more shit up. Now imagine giving two dozen marines 1200 RPG-7 warheads and each a launcher. Imagine how terrifying that would be.
Now how many platoons like that would we need to tell "blow up anything that moves" to neutralize Baghdad in a week?
Now, I am not strictly arguing to give everyone RPG-7s - rather the general idea of giving them a fuckload of high explosives rather than one or two high tech explosives.
The Russians have to fire 300 unguided rockets to get even close to a hit on a target, Himars can do the same thing with 1 missile.
This is why Russia is running out of ammo and the Ukr is blowing up Russian command posts and depots.
Which cost more than 300 unguided rockets
Additionally this is a discussion about stingers/javelins and their unguided equivalents.
I see what you're saying. For me the benefit of smart munitions is we can fire from far away and not need to send our boots in to get killed. But at those prices points, you also make a good argument.
Give boots a bunch of explosives and you have happy boots
The taliban cannot take over a village again if there is no village.
Russia has only missiles to hurt Ukraine. Their Artillery is outranged by NATO artillery. They run no air attacks on the Frontline cause they absolutely suck at getting any air superiority over Ukraine. Russia sucks with combined arms warfare. The US airforce would crush their radar sites easily with HARMS and the few they provided to Ukraine basically shut their Air off. There are no air attacks from Russia on the Ukrainian frontline. If there was.. the Ukrainian frontline would be near Kiev.
Agree we're on a way more advanced platform than Russia, nobody's arguing that but like you said, they only have missiles to hurt Ukraine (and the volume) but yet there's this "slow grind" that's been happening after their initial push that didn't yield them the results they wanted.
They can level all of Ukraine if they wanted to, but they don't. There's more than who has the best weapons, but who is achieving their objectives and Ukraine certainly isn't with the help of the entire world's largest countries tripping over themselves to help them.
Edit: Also, I try to follow both sides and what I've noticed is it just looks like Russia's Wagner Group is doing most, if not all of the heavy lifting. Everyone is committing their own money, troops and arms while Russia is hiring mercenaries to do the job and continue to grind away.
Of course Russia could send all Missiles they have at once and drop 3-4 tactical nukes onto civilian targets. That would defeat their own story about the war. So all they will do is keep attacking the infrastructure. But this is a losing game to them too. More and more NATO anti air comes into the country. Less and less missiles get through. We already see that. Ukraine has millions of men to defend.
There
s grinding on both sides. In the end Ukraine will never give up and they dont have to while NATO supplies.Yes Wagner actually sends a lot of prisoners to die there, so this is no problem for Russia as long as they dont send people from the heartland and expedite the poor people to the front.
The problem is for Russia, they have no means to actually move the frontline much further than taking a small village here and there. Every Russian movement is communicated to the Ukrainians and they are trained and equipped by Nato. Russia cant defeat a huge Force like Ukraine supplied by Nato weapons and intelligence.
This is mostly an artillery war and while Russia has huge stockpile of Soviet era munitions and artillery they are hopelessly outranged by NATO artillery and smart munitions.
This is why we're sending all of our shit over there.
Russia sees the Bessarabian and Polish Gaps as a matter of existential survival, which means they will eventually confront our military unless they're stopped in Ukraine.
Our military, despite being full of soy, gay, and vaxx, is going to fuck them up six ways to sunday, which means Russia will use their nukes. We're trying to grind and bleed them dry in Ukraine so that nukes don't fly.
Best case scenario, we're able to freeze the conflict and cool the war down for now. But it will come back until Russian demographics force a collapse of the federation.
Oh, so we're fighting for peace, OK.
Famous last words: The Russians are a bunch of primitives, who cares about their red lines and geopolitical viewpoint, one good kick and the whole Ausrotten edifice will come tumbling down.
(Napoleon, Sweden, Germany...)
because they're selling them!
Why is Raytheon telling us this? Who the fuck is running this country?? 😂
Raytheon and others
We need to keep this war going so we can become richer!!!
what are they doing? ripening us for a chicom invasion? cause thats what it looks like.
Used up is a strange way to say sold.
I came here to say this.
Modern Warfare is expensive, especially when you consider that most explosive material and production comes from the enemy.
Russia was a major supplier of U.S. munition material.
We actually found a Startracker on ebay years back. It was like, wtf?!?
"defending democracy" there is that damn word again.
I want everyone to read that article and then come to understand that our own Gov would not let our own military fight like that. They would restrict weapons and procedures and it would be the classic one hand tied behind your back military. Look how different these two faced POS are talking when it is an entirely different country they are supplying? All the while knowing they would scoff and laugh at the fact that American soldiers would die not being able to use all these weapon systems, or have the allocated ammo and reserve. They laugh at that. But for Ukraine? Only the best, only the best for Ukraine, give them everything they want and a blank check. Unreal.
How do you measure "13 years of stingers" in such a situation? Exactly how do we confirm this statement? Ask the people who made it?
It is 13 years of production. It took them 13 years to build that stockpile.
Remember all the "Russia is going to be out of missiles/artillery/bullets in 2/3/4 months" talk from all the propaganda talking heads?
Yeah, it was all projection. We were going to run out of munitions, and Russia was just a "gas station masquerading as a country," so they had to be in worse shape, right?
Ukraine would use 5-6k rounds of 155mm artillery per day. Russia was using 50-60k rounds of 155mm artillery per day.
The U.S. is able to manufacture ~12k rounds of 155mm artillery per MONTH.
NATO stockpiles are gone. We have no more 155mm rounds to give away or use ourselves. Ukraine has switched to 105mm artillery, and has largely chewed through those stockpiles too.
Guess what? Russia continues to fire 155mm rounds like it doesn't matter. And it doesn't. Because they manufacture more than 4 million rounds a year. They have plenty, and then some.
All those missile strikes on Ukrainian targets like the electrical grid haven't slowed. Because Russia actually makes shit, and is largely self-sufficient.
Just thank Almighty God the idiots in charge haven't managed to drag us into a war with Russia yet. Russia is the conventional military superpower in Europe. There is no other. Russia will absolutely win any conventional conflict with any Western power. Their troops are far better equipped and have far more personal field experience under fire than any western army.
But even up to just a month or two ago we still had shills on here talking about how Russia was losing, Russia was done for, Russia was going to collapse, checkmate on Russia, etc.
Our leaders are foolish. Our military is denuded and full of fags and trannies. We have no espirit de corp, no masculine impetus, no competent leadership. The U.S. will absolutely lose the next war it fights if it isn't against starving, weaponless tribes.
☝️this guy gets it.
Russia uses 152mm artillery, but otherwise, interesting.
Oh, duh. So they're selling more weapons. Got it.
LMFAO. I mean, I'm a peacenik but I'm not fucking deluded. They can't field a navy without a 3rd world surrogate sinking their flagship. That Ukraine hasn't surrendered already is baffling as well. Then again Russia "annexed" their territory and then under one month of time later the Ukrainians marched right in and took back Kherson.
I agree with anyone that believes we should sue for peace as soon as possible. I agree with Macron that Russia "needs security guarantees". I'm a little pissed off that we didn't give them these already and integrate them into the West.
But then again, I suspect Russia and China are investing heavily in BLM and transgender fetishism in the US. And if this is the case I think we should declare war.
I think you're confusing them with us. We sink our own ships 'cause our "diversity" crews can't drive them and keep running them into other ships.
Yeah, how's that going for Ukraine right now? How many troops did Russia lose defending Kherson, that they had previously evacuated? How many troops did Ukraine lose taking Kherson?
Where are the Russian forces now? What Ukraining cities are they taking? What Ukrainian cities are they encircling?
Gosh, its almost like Russia values the lives of its servicemen, and are happily willing to trade territory for killing Ukrainian servicemen by the bushel while taking no casualties themselves, and then turning right back around and doing whatever the hell they want in Ukraine who is powerless to stop them.
The Russian military is not taking casualties, they are preventing civilian casualties on their side, and they are inflicting massive casualties. Its like the Russians are the only ones who've ever thought about fighting wars before, and are doing so in a more moral manner than any other army in history.
When you say in front of the world a territory is now part of your country you will defend and then give up that territory, you aren’t winning.
Terrifying and horrific. As bad as this is I don't have patience for their shills or yours. You're all fucking annoying and this war isn't our fight. It is unfortunate that people who shill for one side or the other are not forced to duke it out on an island.
I still support a full Declaration of War against the "east" should we find they gave so much as a penny to BLM and transgender fetishism.
Russia has spend the better part of the year proving a moderately sized dick can push their shit in if given a Magnum condom.
Ok, boomer. Literally no one talks about magnum condoms anymore.
And if a moderate dick can fuck Russia up, NATO must be micro-dicked.
It's a bit of a hokey metric, because production capacity can change. Seems more like just an excuse to money grab and get contracts pushed through. We could increase production, but obviously that comes with cost. Not that I'd want us to increase production. Non war time production is always going to be relatively low compared to what's possible. But it's also obvious Ukraine has been given far too many weapons. I'm sure Russia both hates it and likes it, because on one hand they have to deal with it, but on the other they know they're depleting America.
Personally I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things, it's all stuff that would have otherwise sat for decades anyways. All it really means is contractors are going to get more money to "fix" the problem.
These guys are gonna get a lot of Americans killed.
I hate that mother fucker. Sooooo glad to have left that shit show organization.
He's a piece of shit. Came from the company that "merged" with Raytheon, told the Raytheon employees thanks for your sweet Military coffers now have all our United Technologies debt, ohhh and you guys don't get raises or bonuses because we didnt meet our numbers as a whole even though you did, sorry, but Ill take my 28Million bonus. And lets leave the communications public on accident so our contractors can see how fucked up our organization is. No one there likes the guy and its a sinking ship from people I know that left. Did I get that about right?
Yup. However, I worked for UTC that merged with Raytheon. UTC was horrible when they bought Goodrich. The Raytheon merger was even worse.
Andrew Cockburn on the Military-Industrial ‘Virus’(23:23)
I also can’t stand that piece of shit - he “supported” trump prior to the UTC-RTX merger but after when the deal was done he wasted no time in back stabbing trump. Goodrich was a way better company prior to UTC arriving.. definitely felt like the bean counters were in charge and not giving 2 shits about there employees.
We won't be prepared when the enemy comes to our door step.
If they were "used" effectively, there would be Russian losses all over the news. Nope...these are being resold on the black market.
Isn't 80k+ killed not enough for you?
If by "used up" he means mean "$old to third parties"... then, yes.
Dang it, was coming in to say just this. Take my updoot.
I wasn't even first. Critical thought tends to cohere, is all.
Why do I suspect most were sold on the black market.
so you're saying my own Javelin is in the cards?????
For the right price...
How many of those weapons ended up being stolen and sent to other countries
They have 'used' less than 15% of them. The other 85% have been 'sold'.
LOL. The comments are exactly right. They didn't use them. They just sold them for big money.
On the black market to pay for his parents home.
It would cost so much less if Ukraine would just give up the land or whatever that Russia wants and the US gave Ukraine only half the money that it already has. This war isn't about protecting Ukraine. It's about tearing down Russia.
Well good thing we can just make more… the military industrial complex lives for war
Just how many stingers and javelins are in an average yearly allowance?
Joni Ernst what a disappointment she is. Or perhaps I was just fooled by her.
Shame on her, the liar.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/whitewashing-ukraines-corruption
Sold
How smug must the Chinese be these days? Even with their economy on the brink they must think they are so much better off than the West. India as well.
Leaves less for our military to use against us. Time is ticking boys.