There is only one truly decentralized crypto with vast infrastructure to support it. And that's bitcoin. Proof of work pays you to contribute and secure the network.
Its all a sham. Bitcoin is awesome till they cut off internet access. Do you even know where the digital goods are stored and are they even in your own nation? The only real wealth is your physical property and family. Everything else is ephemeral.
Nothing stopping you from joining in if you know it exists. Normal people who know about it get rich off exploiting it too. I made a boatload of money off crypto when it peaked because I knew the game and knew when to gtfo before they crashed it and everyone lost their asses. Yeah I wasn't able to time it to get the actual peak but I got about 80% of it and considering I bought in at the entry level for most of it the returns were, ahem, shall we say, considerable. The problem with a lot of low and mid level investors is that they either play the game too loose or too tight and either underperform or lose their asses. Hazards of playing the game I suppose.
I bought a rather large amount in january of 2015 and sold 90% of it just before the first march peak in 2021. The money I have made by reinvesting it in other markets have HEAVILY outperformed if I had left it all in with the hope it peaks again later. If you held on after the second and then final peak then you played it far too tight and lost your ass.
Oh and hi Anaconda! Still pissed you have no clue about how any of this works and are a piss poor lonely shut in mad at the world? Seethe..
Let's just say you're 100% right. Why wouldn't you buy in the valleys and flip during the peaks. You're missing out being scared of it. You could easily make money by doing these two simple thingw. Buy Crypto when nobody is talking about it, or when everyone is discussing the bloodbath they just took.... And sell when crypto is all over the news and people that normally aren't talking about investments, are talking about crypto. I shit you not. It's that easy
the millions of "miners" around the world keep exact copies of the ledger.. no one group or people has complete control.. and internet of some form or another will always exists unless it turns into the world of Revolution
It can and has been mined with pencil and paper solving the math problem that miners do. It can be transmitted by carrier pigeon or ham radio. It’s not “in” the computer it’s an information protocol.
How does this buy the groceries or pay the bills? You going to wait for someone to send you the bitcoin in paper format via carrier pidgeon or via ham radio? What use is it going to be once you get it if all the means of communication are down anyways? Come back to earth pede you are drifting really far out.
I don’t disagree with you about the practicality vs gold but the facts remain it is possible and some nerd community will be doing it even with no electricity. The mining difficulty would just adjust downward.
Youre telling me that you can do the work, with pencil and paper, that normally requires massive server farms stuffed with the very latest graphics cards, each performing in the teraflop range and consuming the power of a small city?
The math would be less complex with fewer transactions to calculate. But you're right. No fucking way that would work. The delay in travel itself fucks the whole concept of instantly calculating all the ledgers and keeping track of the network.
Monero is solid. Probably the closest thing to digital cash. Yes it doesn’t have the infrastructure and ease of bitcoin but if your looking to make purchases on the dark web, it’s your best option
BTC has been hijacked and then so to say not-so-subtly privatized (say, through Lightning Network, to schematize) by an international consortium of Banksters & BigFi lead by AXA (CEO then: Henri de Castrie, also Bilderberg Director in the same timeframe) around 2014-2016, mainly through the infiltration of the infamous Bitcoin Foundation (and the then mutually installed "developpers" ie saboteurs linked to it like Adam piece-of-shit Back, - and this, despite mass protests from the "community" through bitcoin foras, bitcointalks.org and r/Bitcoin esp.).
Do your fucking homework instead of talking out of your ass. Or are you just shilling?
PS:
1/ If you want historical BTC ([almost] original code, etc), try BCH (aka Bitcoin Cash)
2/ "There is only one truly decentralized crypto with vast infrastructure to support it." : Absolutely ridiculous and plainly false. Dozens of other crypto arguably have [far] better infrastructures (eg. Ethereum) AND [far] better decentralization (most of top-20 cryptos, really). Again, learn your shit OR stop lying.
3/ "Proof of work pays you to contribute and secure the network." Kek. What about Proof of Stake ? Proof of Space?
Bitcoin has a finite supply which isn't a bad thing, however it requires computational power to process transactions. This is accomplished by rewarding newly minted coins to miners who's computers work is accepted as the latest block in the blockchain. However, the reward diminishes over time as less coins are rewarded per block, and the difficulty of work increases and this has resulted in very specialized equipment being developed in a sort of arms race among miners. Bitcoin is simply not worth mining at home with your computer because even if you join a mining pool, your share only amounts to pennies per day despite your computer working as hard as it can unless you get an ASIC miner machine or 20. If there's another development of mining hardware that blows the current hardware out of the water, what's stopping a State or NGO from buying up or seizing every one of the new generation hardware? They would essentially have majority control of the network.
Then with the 1mb blocksize, it becomes increasingly expensive to get YOUR transaction to appear on the next block. It's already impractical to send somebody $5 worth of Bitcoin. Minimum transaction fees could easily be hundreds or thousands of dollars worth as more big money gets into it and more transactions are made.
To address some of these shortcomings, CENTRALIZED ENTITIES have created layers on top of Bitcoin to incentivize mining and reduce transfer fees and transfer time.
It was funded based on fiat currency. When the currencies fall, so does Bitcoin. It's also not secure. The FBI recovered money from it. They didn't ask for permission or need the wallet or ID.
According to court documents, Lichtenstein and Morgan allegedly conspired to launder the proceeds of 119,754 bitcoin that were stolen from Bitfinex’s platform after a hacker breached Bitfinex’s systems and initiated more than 2,000 unauthorized transactions.
Two points.
Criminals hacked it, not even government. That means they are not secure.
After the execution of court-authorized search warrants of online accounts controlled by Lichtenstein and Morgan, special agents obtained access to files within an online account controlled by Lichtenstein. Those files contained the private keys required to access the digital wallet that directly received the funds stolen from Bitfinex, and allowed special agents to lawfully seize and recover more than 94,000 bitcoin that had been stolen from Bitfinex. The recovered bitcoin was valued at over $3.6 billion at the time of seizure.
They obtained the files, wallet and ID, or as you put it, "keys" via a search warrant.
Dude learn how bitcoin works. An "exchange" got hacked and this dumbass stored his keys on an "online account". NO ONE hacked bitcoin. No one with half a brain stores their keys on a computer, let alone on the cloud.
If you write your keyphrase on your forehead it isn't "hacked" when someone finds and uses them
Bitfinex is not Bitcoin. It is a crypto exchange like coinbase. It's a private company that obviously stored keys in an insecure matter. In no way was Bitcoin protocol hacked.
It's like saying someone hacked physical cash because they robbed a bank. Cash is only as secure as where you keep it. Same as your bitcoin keys.
You have the reading comprehension skills of a 2nd grader.
Today, federal law enforcement demonstrates once again that we can follow money through the blockchain, and that we will not allow cryptocurrency to be a safe haven for money laundering or a zone of lawlessness within our financial system,” said Assistant Attorney General Kenneth A. Polite Jr. of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. “The arrests today show that we will take a firm stand against those who allegedly try to use virtual currencies for criminal purposes.
The remainder of the stolen funds, comprising more than 94,000 bitcoin, remained in the wallet used to receive and store the illegal proceeds from the hack. After the execution of court-authorized search warrants of online accounts controlled by Lichtenstein and Morgan, special agents obtained access to files within an online account controlled by Lichtenstein. Those files contained the private keys required to access the digital wallet that directly received the funds stolen from Bitfinex, and allowed special agents to lawfully seize and recover more than 94,000 bitcoin that had been stolen from Bitfinex. The recovered bitcoin was valued at over $3.6 billion at the time of seizure.
It plainly states they "followed the money" right into a specific file they accessed via a search warrant. How did they know what files to ask for in the warrant?
Let me let the moron in on a little secret. Nothing online is secure when it comes to government.
They already knew, you imbecile.
Not secure, dumbass.
One question for the moron. How did the criminals obtain the coins in the first place?
Do tell... fucktard.
Here. Let me fix it, so the moron understands if he reads the link source.
The criminals hacked a blockchain operation and used blockchain to hide it. LMAO!
Yeah - many Republicans on this site are not infallible and can be as awful as Democrats.
During the 2000 election after Katherine Harris certified Florida for Bush when there was an 181 vote difference between the two candidates. It was remarkable how R's committed to looking the other way. They feared Democrats were trying to steal the election, when it was clearly the Florida Republicans who had the Voter Cleansing Program aimed at stealing the state.
Precisely the same mentality Democrats use today to justify the last election.
To make matters worse, scotus made sure there was no recount in 2000 much like they made sure there was no observation in 2020.
You're claiming that bitcoin isn't secure because they got the keys through a third party. That's like leaving your keys outside your front door then claiming that door locks don't work.
Today, federal law enforcement demonstrates once again that we can follow money through the blockchain, and that we will not allow cryptocurrency to be a safe haven for money laundering or a zone of lawlessness within our financial system,” said Assistant Attorney General Kenneth A. Polite Jr. of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. “The arrests today show that we will take a firm stand against those who allegedly try to use virtual currencies for criminal purposes.
More specific: demonstrates once again that we can follow money through the blockchain
Then we have the following:
The remainder of the stolen funds, comprising more than 94,000 bitcoin, remained in the wallet used to receive and store the illegal proceeds from the hack. After the execution of court-authorized search warrants of online accounts controlled by Lichtenstein and Morgan, special agents obtained access to files within an online account controlled by Lichtenstein. Those files contained the private keys required to access the digital wallet that directly received the funds stolen from Bitfinex, and allowed special agents to lawfully seize and recover more than 94,000 bitcoin that had been stolen from Bitfinex. The recovered bitcoin was valued at over $3.6 billion at the time of seizure.
More specific: remained in the wallet used to receive and store the illegal proceeds from the HACK.
Those files contained the private keys required to access the digital wallet
Like @grumbledook said, they got they wallet.
The FBI cannot "recover money from it" any other way. They have to get the seed phrase or private key. If you can memorize 12 words, then it would be impossible for them to seize anything.
Today, federal law enforcement demonstrates once again that we can follow money through the blockchain, and that we will not allow cryptocurrency to be a safe haven for money laundering or a zone of lawlessness within our financial system,” said Assistant Attorney General Kenneth A. Polite Jr. of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. “The arrests today show that we will take a firm stand against those who allegedly try to use virtual currencies for criminal purposes.
Do you see the words in bold?
"demonstrates once again that we can follow money through the blockchain"
They tracked within the system, followed the money and caught the hackers.
Most retail will never accept bitcoin because it's too volitile. The market value swings are absurd and you are risking a loss unless you can immediately turn it into cash.
Generally I've found that the people going crazy for Bitcoin are people who own it and want others to join in so that their investment gains value. It's never because it's a practical or sensible place to put your money.
with retail using eink price signs they could update pricing damn near in realtime to reflect its volatility.. pricing for groceries changes quite often too due to volatile supply and inflation anyway .. so whats the difference?
BTC switched from satoshi’s original white paper “peer to peer electronic cash” into a Ponzi called “store of value”. It was co opted by Mastercard and axa strategic investments, French derivatives giant who has the most to lose if bitcoin is used as currency. They censored the original scaling plan and replaced it with a dysfunctional banking layer called lightning.
BCH is effectively bitcoin, with the original protocol intact and the ability to scale to global volume of Daily Cash payments. Its been heavily naked shorted since the fork so it’s only 0.005% the market cap of the btc fork, but its ratio Has finally flat lines which makes it a decent speculation too. But most importantly it’s the most widely accepted at brick and mortar stores. Easiest to use as cash because it is the original code. R/btc.
Reddit r btc. It’s basically uncensored and you can find a lot of the preservation fork history there. As well you can try asking simple questions about block size on the main bitcoin subreddit, so you can experience the censorship there first hand.
Exactly. Bullets and food are the only currency in a real crisis. A multi-year crisis would then make seeds and livestock currency, but then we're basically back to the stone age.
You can't pay your bills that will surely be accrued by government and other agencies with food and bullets. That is good for shortages of food and ammo for assholes who want to steal. However, when there is a currency exchange, precious metals is something that almost every country will want to trade for. So, whatever currency, even crypto, will take gold, maybe silver, you will get the new world currency.
By the way, if anyone buys gold online and the guv needs money to pay those billions of dollars that were sent to Ukraine (and laundered some back to politicians) the guv will most likely track who bought what from which precious metals company, and will then demand you give it up for either pennies on the dollar or complete confiscation because the gov can't default on its debt.
Food and ammo is good should things get like ww2 board the train scenarios.
Source: I don't claim to know everything or nearly a lot that is out there, but I am a precious metals dealer and I do have to keep up many times a day to all the mayhem out there to keep me in business without losing my shorts on uninformed moves. Oh, by the way, it appears a next savings and loans debacle is about to happen. Worse than 2008 and times before.
That's just not true and we have perfect examples just in the last 100 years.
For example, you could have had a whole bunch of Soviet rubles worth a shit ton in 1988. A couple thousand could buy you a house, or a couple gold wedding rings. By 1992, they were less useful than toilet paper.
But gold rings are still gold rings and worth exactly as much today as in 1988.
And the 90s in Russia were difficult, but not anywhere near "bullets and food".
Same goes for Weimar Germany. People survived fine, it wasn't an apocalypse. But all forms of value except gold and silver and other physical assets were destroyed.
Gold and silver is the only way to transfer value across a major systemic crisis. It isn't really a means of survival.
The risk of the dollar assets losing most of their value soonish is about 100%. How are guns and food going to help you then?
It's not at all difficult to have physical gold and/or silver in your possession. It's also easy to transfer it back into fiat down the road if you need too. Anybody saying otherwise is a liar.
Coffee and alcohol are also good barter material. Maybe don't tempt yourself lol. As a former smoker, I'm sure they'd call out to me from the freezer, especially when it hits the fan.
Whole leaf tobacco from Leaf Only, tubes, and an electric injector. After recouping the cost of the injector (I think it’s around $100), packs are 50 cents each, 75 cents for organic.
Property is great. One problem with property is that it is titled by the government, and can be easily confiscated by a rogue government with just a paperwork shuffle among other tricks. Ask the native Americans, anybody who has had the pleasure of experiencing eminent domain, Rhodesians, South Africans, Kulaks, Palestinians, Dutch farmers…
In that vein you need to watch out for squatters, adverse possession, re-zoning, train derailments, natural disasters, vandals, copper thieves, road expansion (part of eminent domain), white flight, build back better with section 8 expansion, upkeep and updates, and on and on…
But yes, for some time, MOST property has appreciated in value, a lot of it faster than official inflation.
It's not though. Property that you don't use is just a huge cost in maintenance. A cost most people don't want to have in times of crisis, meaning they dump their property for dirt cheap. And after a crisis, if you haven't maintained it, the property isn't going to be very valuable.
And if you had the extra resources for maintenance during crisis, they would have been better spent buying dirt cheap property.
But a gold coin from the Roman Empire is worth more now than it was then. (While a property title from the Roman Empire is worth exactly nothing today. )
In Weimar Germany, you could buy a house for a couple ounces of gold.
I would add social relationships as well, and not that social media garbage. Anyone who thinks they can live off the land on their own has been watching too many movies.
There's no reason to have 20K on hand. But 2K, and items of value, will give you flexibility until shit shakes out. You then adapt from there: either sell your items of value if cash stay relevant, or trade your items for other items of value that you don't have.
Agreed. Some gold silver weapons storable foods. Water purification tools ( filters tablets just incase )
Ride it out awhile and be a like the coyote ( the K9 not criminals) and be prepared to adapt
Yep. I've paid cash for every ounce of bullion in my safe. And the two coin shops I use simply write "Sold to cash" on the receipt, they don't care about a paper trail.
What?!?! Gold is the same price as before the pandemic. You would be better putting your money in a fucking savings account with 20bp interest. Inflation is a bitch. If you are not gaining 10% annually over the last 4 years you have lost money.
Gold and silver have had practical applications beyond their scarcity for millennia. They have more value now, because they're excellent conductors and useful in modern electronics.
Your not stacking it to use in industry, but as currency for daily life survival.
In the societal event that your “precious” metals became useful in the way you bought them for, big business industry will not be the viable focus of society.
So basically your shit is worthless for the purpose you acquired it. Or only as useful as the person who has something that you need deems them to be. So, congrats, you were able to buy a few cans of beans in exchange for what was $10,000 worth of gold. Way to go champ.
Should have bought guns, bullets, alcohol, tabacco, and storable food.
All of which will be way WAY WAY more valuable than that shit some transparently scammy ad on a Hannity show sold you.
All that guns, alcohol, bullets and other bullshit is orders of magnitude less scarce than gold. Alcohol can literally be made anywhere using pretty much anything and water.
There are literally billions of guns, with millions more made every day.
The only conceivable scenario where the access to these things is somehow limited is a mad-max fallout style apocalypse.
Which is stupid. That shit has never happened except very locally during wars, and most probably will never happen globally.
But I can give you 10 examples just in the last 100 years where a financial system collapsed without society collapsing. No shortage of guns or food. Never a shortage of alcohol. But all value wiped out, except for physical objects that were and will always be valuable.
The only thing remotely valuable on that list is tobacco, because addicts need their fix and tobacco doesn't store well while taking ages to cure. But since it doesn't store well, the only time investing in cigarettes makes sense is exactly before a crisis happens, which you're not going to get right on timing anyway.
That's like saying "beauty is just a human idea and isn't worth anything intrinsically"
Yeah, well, the very idea of "worth" is a human idea. There are no atoms of worth anywhere in the universe that you could measure outside the "human idea" context.
Rare metals that have the heft, malleability and color of gold and that will remain shiny forever will always have worth.
It literally takes like some sugar and water and week's time to make booze. It's really not that valuable unless it was originally very good and valuable booze to start with, and only if it's the kind that you can store for a long time.
In a SHTF situation it may not be so easy , or wise to set up a still. I don’t want to have to wait if I need it to clean a wound, etc. But yes, very easy and even fun to make your own.
.Win has never been close to a general consensus on where it stands with Bitcoin. Boomers say it's imaginary while clutching their printed dollars and thin-air stocks that are valued in an increasingly worthless currency.
Doomers says we're stupid for investing in something that has outpaced the gains of any other asset for well over a decade, at this point. How much longer does it have to perform to be viewed as legitimate?
Bitcoin is really just a bet that there won't be a magnificent global collapse like so many of you seem sure is going to happen, but that Clown World will live on and shit will get progressively dumber over time.
Your gold/silver won't save you. You already don't use your guns. Bitcoin may not be the end all, be all, but it will be a significant player in the future.
I did a test. I shut the power off in my house. went to my computer and tried to log in...no go. I went to my gun safe. had access to my guns. went to regular safe. silver and gold coins felt nice. not saying crypto isn't worthwhile but it also has limitations.
We will see. Gold and silver have been MONEY for thousands of years… yet, it HASN’T been MONEY since 1964 (silver) 1971 (gold). 🤣🤣 So we’re talking a THOUSANDS of years track record vs the last 50 vs “crypto”. 🤪🤪
Precious metals have significant value. I think true diversification includes them, AND Bitcoin. People act like devoting a few percent of their net worth to a more speculative investment is going to kill them.
The same people that rag on something like Bitcoin will also rave about "MUH DWAC" without acknowledging that the SPAC crazy was a true flash in the pan.
Silver is at $20/ oz… 🤣… so cheap. If it goes to $16/ oz I’ll trade ALL of my federal reserve zeros and ones in somebody else’s computer for physical SiLVeR!! 💥 Don’t worry… I have a bunker, GuNZ and ammo. 🤣🤣
No thanks. My 12 girls are laying at least 6-10 eggs a day for us. We also have all the food, land and means to keep it thru whatever is coming. I just know once things “normalize”, Gold and Silver will be $$$$ again.
The moment that crypto was allowed to be traded as a security and reportable to the IRS it became a tool of the wealthy and banks to move vast sums of money quickly and without the enhanced scrutiny of swift, it also became a tool to bilk regular individuals of their small personal wealth buy pumping and dumping everything from Bitcoin to shitcoin similar to what they do to your 401k where you are locked in without a quick exit strategy. Bitcoin was great until wall Street got their hands on it.
think of crypto not as a store of wealth but as a means of moving value unrestricted
There is only one truly decentralized crypto with vast infrastructure to support it. And that's bitcoin. Proof of work pays you to contribute and secure the network.
yup.. rest are shit coins
Its all a sham. Bitcoin is awesome till they cut off internet access. Do you even know where the digital goods are stored and are they even in your own nation? The only real wealth is your physical property and family. Everything else is ephemeral.
Yep. If you can't defend it with a gun, it doesn't have real value. Maybe temporarily, but not long term.
How much gold is that?
How much beef can you buy with the amount of gold you can sprint with?
Now do bitcoins.
7 seconds is a long ride on a bull.
Retards but gold and silver. Smart people buy reloading equipment and a still.
It’s a classic 20 year pump and dump cycle scam. Like all the other ones that existed before it
Lol totally dig your handle
Thank you!
Nothing stopping you from joining in if you know it exists. Normal people who know about it get rich off exploiting it too. I made a boatload of money off crypto when it peaked because I knew the game and knew when to gtfo before they crashed it and everyone lost their asses. Yeah I wasn't able to time it to get the actual peak but I got about 80% of it and considering I bought in at the entry level for most of it the returns were, ahem, shall we say, considerable. The problem with a lot of low and mid level investors is that they either play the game too loose or too tight and either underperform or lose their asses. Hazards of playing the game I suppose.
I bought a rather large amount in january of 2015 and sold 90% of it just before the first march peak in 2021. The money I have made by reinvesting it in other markets have HEAVILY outperformed if I had left it all in with the hope it peaks again later. If you held on after the second and then final peak then you played it far too tight and lost your ass.
Oh and hi Anaconda! Still pissed you have no clue about how any of this works and are a piss poor lonely shut in mad at the world? Seethe..
I mined it myself for zero cost heating my house in the winter. If you count the cost of equipment I'm up over 25x.
how low an entry? IIRC Bitcoin was around $0.14 / coin mid-2011
Let's just say you're 100% right. Why wouldn't you buy in the valleys and flip during the peaks. You're missing out being scared of it. You could easily make money by doing these two simple thingw. Buy Crypto when nobody is talking about it, or when everyone is discussing the bloodbath they just took.... And sell when crypto is all over the news and people that normally aren't talking about investments, are talking about crypto. I shit you not. It's that easy
the millions of "miners" around the world keep exact copies of the ledger.. no one group or people has complete control.. and internet of some form or another will always exists unless it turns into the world of Revolution
well some people still worship the golden calf
It can and has been mined with pencil and paper solving the math problem that miners do. It can be transmitted by carrier pigeon or ham radio. It’s not “in” the computer it’s an information protocol.
How does this buy the groceries or pay the bills? You going to wait for someone to send you the bitcoin in paper format via carrier pidgeon or via ham radio? What use is it going to be once you get it if all the means of communication are down anyways? Come back to earth pede you are drifting really far out.
ITT: People pretending fiat and crypto both aren't suspended over a bottomless pit of nothing.
The smart ones will start hoarding bottle caps.
I don’t disagree with you about the practicality vs gold but the facts remain it is possible and some nerd community will be doing it even with no electricity. The mining difficulty would just adjust downward.
Youre telling me that you can do the work, with pencil and paper, that normally requires massive server farms stuffed with the very latest graphics cards, each performing in the teraflop range and consuming the power of a small city?
The amish are making moves into the crypto mining space
Yes and then a carrier pigeon delivers "it" and the Pede exchanges it for goods to another Pede who can do the same.
The math would be less complex with fewer transactions to calculate. But you're right. No fucking way that would work. The delay in travel itself fucks the whole concept of instantly calculating all the ledgers and keeping track of the network.
Yeah by ham radio is more practical. It’s just a theoretical extreme anyway.
Cryptography is based on being able to factor a number into its primes. By the way, what's the prime factorization of 2023?
Yes. The difficulty would adjust down to pen and paper levels.
Your wallet sure as shit is in your computer though.
Dafuq you smoking?
I like shib because I can have millions of something. And the wiggling worth line is violent. Which amuses me.
I also open pull tabs at bars if it helps you understand my pov.
Monero is solid. Probably the closest thing to digital cash. Yes it doesn’t have the infrastructure and ease of bitcoin but if your looking to make purchases on the dark web, it’s your best option
absolutely
atta boy. Monero's the only choice.
Monero.
tech around monero is great.. just too late
You’re a bunch of idiots. They use the exact same crypto technology. That’s like saying black poodles are fundamentally better than white ones.
Exactly and none of it can be trusted. The feds have backdoors to it all.
They are....
BTC has been hijacked and then so to say not-so-subtly privatized (say, through Lightning Network, to schematize) by an international consortium of Banksters & BigFi lead by AXA (CEO then: Henri de Castrie, also Bilderberg Director in the same timeframe) around 2014-2016, mainly through the infiltration of the infamous Bitcoin Foundation (and the then mutually installed "developpers" ie saboteurs linked to it like Adam piece-of-shit Back, - and this, despite mass protests from the "community" through bitcoin foras, bitcointalks.org and r/Bitcoin esp.).
Do your fucking homework instead of talking out of your ass. Or are you just shilling?
PS:
1/ If you want historical BTC ([almost] original code, etc), try BCH (aka Bitcoin Cash)
2/ "There is only one truly decentralized crypto with vast infrastructure to support it." : Absolutely ridiculous and plainly false. Dozens of other crypto arguably have [far] better infrastructures (eg. Ethereum) AND [far] better decentralization (most of top-20 cryptos, really). Again, learn your shit OR stop lying.
3/ "Proof of work pays you to contribute and secure the network." Kek. What about Proof of Stake ? Proof of Space?
4/ Etc.
The majority of 4,653 active Ethereum nodes are in the hands of centralized web providers like Amazon Web Services (AWS)
be less retarded
Lmao decentralized.
Bitcoin is not only inefficient and has fundamental design shortcomings like 1MB blocks, it's not exactly private.
https://youtu.be/-Zr7PHNAjJI
You know what decentralized means right?
Bitcoin has a finite supply which isn't a bad thing, however it requires computational power to process transactions. This is accomplished by rewarding newly minted coins to miners who's computers work is accepted as the latest block in the blockchain. However, the reward diminishes over time as less coins are rewarded per block, and the difficulty of work increases and this has resulted in very specialized equipment being developed in a sort of arms race among miners. Bitcoin is simply not worth mining at home with your computer because even if you join a mining pool, your share only amounts to pennies per day despite your computer working as hard as it can unless you get an ASIC miner machine or 20. If there's another development of mining hardware that blows the current hardware out of the water, what's stopping a State or NGO from buying up or seizing every one of the new generation hardware? They would essentially have majority control of the network.
Then with the 1mb blocksize, it becomes increasingly expensive to get YOUR transaction to appear on the next block. It's already impractical to send somebody $5 worth of Bitcoin. Minimum transaction fees could easily be hundreds or thousands of dollars worth as more big money gets into it and more transactions are made.
To address some of these shortcomings, CENTRALIZED ENTITIES have created layers on top of Bitcoin to incentivize mining and reduce transfer fees and transfer time.
correct. Monero's the only crypto with value.
It was funded based on fiat currency. When the currencies fall, so does Bitcoin. It's also not secure. The FBI recovered money from it. They didn't ask for permission or need the wallet or ID.
They recovered from a crypto exchange who provided the keys. Exchanges will gladly give up your keys to government. Not your keys, not your coin.
Please don't spread fake news propaganda.
Two points.
That's pretty cut and dried. It explains exactly what happened.
They may have told the company, but the company didn't provide the info for access. They already had it.
Dude learn how bitcoin works. An "exchange" got hacked and this dumbass stored his keys on an "online account". NO ONE hacked bitcoin. No one with half a brain stores their keys on a computer, let alone on the cloud.
If you write your keyphrase on your forehead it isn't "hacked" when someone finds and uses them
Hardware wallet. Learn how they work.
It plainly says that IT was HACKED!
Not my words. The FBI stated this.
"hacker breached Bitfinex’s systems"
Bitfinex is not Bitcoin. It is a crypto exchange like coinbase. It's a private company that obviously stored keys in an insecure matter. In no way was Bitcoin protocol hacked.
It's like saying someone hacked physical cash because they robbed a bank. Cash is only as secure as where you keep it. Same as your bitcoin keys.
Wrong lmao the fbi got the keys. They didn't 'hack' in you moron
Show me where I said they hacked it! Moron!
You have the reading comprehension skills of a 2nd grader.
You had better learn to read... moron.
It plainly states they "followed the money" right into a specific file they accessed via a search warrant. How did they know what files to ask for in the warrant?
Let me let the moron in on a little secret. Nothing online is secure when it comes to government.
They already knew, you imbecile.
Not secure, dumbass.
One question for the moron. How did the criminals obtain the coins in the first place?
Do tell... fucktard.
Here. Let me fix it, so the moron understands if he reads the link source.
The criminals hacked a blockchain operation and used blockchain to hide it. LMAO!
And you called me a moron!
Crypto bugs are helplessly blind to facts.
Confirmation bias.
These are the same cats that think they are free from brainwashing.
It seems that about half of the people on this site have the same issue across thousands of topics.
Yeah - many Republicans on this site are not infallible and can be as awful as Democrats.
During the 2000 election after Katherine Harris certified Florida for Bush when there was an 181 vote difference between the two candidates. It was remarkable how R's committed to looking the other way. They feared Democrats were trying to steal the election, when it was clearly the Florida Republicans who had the Voter Cleansing Program aimed at stealing the state.
Precisely the same mentality Democrats use today to justify the last election.
To make matters worse, scotus made sure there was no recount in 2000 much like they made sure there was no observation in 2020.
Hypocrisy knows no bounds.
You're claiming that bitcoin isn't secure because they got the keys through a third party. That's like leaving your keys outside your front door then claiming that door locks don't work.
You sound a little bit gay as well
I have proven it isn't.
Once more.
More specific: demonstrates once again that we can follow money through the blockchain
Then we have the following:
More specific: remained in the wallet used to receive and store the illegal proceeds from the HACK.
They hacked the accounts. That means it's not secure. It's in the very first sentence of the quote above, directly from the FBI website.
You have the IQ of road kill.
Let it go, you're too stupid to comprehend reality, and it's why you defended the indefensible.
You're misunderstanding Bitcoin and storage security.
The feds did not hack into anything. They got the keys and entered with said keys.
Like @grumbledook said, they got they wallet.
The FBI cannot "recover money from it" any other way. They have to get the seed phrase or private key. If you can memorize 12 words, then it would be impossible for them to seize anything.
I never said they didn't get the wallet.
I said they didn't ask permission.
Do you see the words in bold?
"demonstrates once again that we can follow money through the blockchain"
They tracked within the system, followed the money and caught the hackers.
The next part is the money (coins) WERE HACKED!
Think before you speak, son.
first in, best dressed, as they say
Most retail will never accept bitcoin because it's too volitile. The market value swings are absurd and you are risking a loss unless you can immediately turn it into cash.
Generally I've found that the people going crazy for Bitcoin are people who own it and want others to join in so that their investment gains value. It's never because it's a practical or sensible place to put your money.
with retail using eink price signs they could update pricing damn near in realtime to reflect its volatility.. pricing for groceries changes quite often too due to volatile supply and inflation anyway .. so whats the difference?
BTC switched from satoshi’s original white paper “peer to peer electronic cash” into a Ponzi called “store of value”. It was co opted by Mastercard and axa strategic investments, French derivatives giant who has the most to lose if bitcoin is used as currency. They censored the original scaling plan and replaced it with a dysfunctional banking layer called lightning.
BCH is effectively bitcoin, with the original protocol intact and the ability to scale to global volume of Daily Cash payments. Its been heavily naked shorted since the fork so it’s only 0.005% the market cap of the btc fork, but its ratio Has finally flat lines which makes it a decent speculation too. But most importantly it’s the most widely accepted at brick and mortar stores. Easiest to use as cash because it is the original code. R/btc.
Can you share sources tfor these points? I'd like to read more.
Reddit r btc. It’s basically uncensored and you can find a lot of the preservation fork history there. As well you can try asking simple questions about block size on the main bitcoin subreddit, so you can experience the censorship there first hand.
buy gold
Unless you have gold in your house its not yours
Furthermore, if shit gets so bad that I need physical gold as currency, fuck gold. Nothing will matter except bullets and food.
Exactly. Bullets and food are the only currency in a real crisis. A multi-year crisis would then make seeds and livestock currency, but then we're basically back to the stone age.
You can't pay your bills that will surely be accrued by government and other agencies with food and bullets. That is good for shortages of food and ammo for assholes who want to steal. However, when there is a currency exchange, precious metals is something that almost every country will want to trade for. So, whatever currency, even crypto, will take gold, maybe silver, you will get the new world currency.
By the way, if anyone buys gold online and the guv needs money to pay those billions of dollars that were sent to Ukraine (and laundered some back to politicians) the guv will most likely track who bought what from which precious metals company, and will then demand you give it up for either pennies on the dollar or complete confiscation because the gov can't default on its debt.
Food and ammo is good should things get like ww2 board the train scenarios.
Source: I don't claim to know everything or nearly a lot that is out there, but I am a precious metals dealer and I do have to keep up many times a day to all the mayhem out there to keep me in business without losing my shorts on uninformed moves. Oh, by the way, it appears a next savings and loans debacle is about to happen. Worse than 2008 and times before.
What if you give your gold and silver to family and friends as Christmas / birthday presents? How is the government going to track it then?
always keep a record but don't produce unless forced. This will save your loved ones unreasonable taxes later.
Boating accident.
Nope, you can definitely pay them with lead at least once. But you're most likely not making a second payment.
That's just not true and we have perfect examples just in the last 100 years.
For example, you could have had a whole bunch of Soviet rubles worth a shit ton in 1988. A couple thousand could buy you a house, or a couple gold wedding rings. By 1992, they were less useful than toilet paper.
But gold rings are still gold rings and worth exactly as much today as in 1988.
And the 90s in Russia were difficult, but not anywhere near "bullets and food".
Same goes for Weimar Germany. People survived fine, it wasn't an apocalypse. But all forms of value except gold and silver and other physical assets were destroyed.
Gold and silver is the only way to transfer value across a major systemic crisis. It isn't really a means of survival.
The risk of the dollar assets losing most of their value soonish is about 100%. How are guns and food going to help you then?
It's not at all difficult to have physical gold and/or silver in your possession. It's also easy to transfer it back into fiat down the road if you need too. Anybody saying otherwise is a liar.
just like the people that had all their petro dollar in SVB
keeping all your money in the banks is also for faggots
Cash, gold, silver ,firearms and ammo
Ammo/guns, water, seeds, more ammo/guns
Silver and small denomination gold should be in there, but ammo, guns, food and water are higher priorities.
Also important are useful items (tools for example) and addictive substances that can be bartered.
Hmm, I quit smoking years ago but now I’m thinking I should get a few cartons of cigarettes
Coffee and alcohol are also good barter material. Maybe don't tempt yourself lol. As a former smoker, I'm sure they'd call out to me from the freezer, especially when it hits the fan.
Loose tobacco is much cheaper and stays fresh longer than cartons :)
Whole leaf tobacco from Leaf Only, tubes, and an electric injector. After recouping the cost of the injector (I think it’s around $100), packs are 50 cents each, 75 cents for organic.
Yep, ability to make alcohol for medicinal and trade usage is also good.
Just watch the rads.
This man knows how to brew...
Or just ammo/guns, if your feeling ambitious
That’s my strategy!
Not one person on this thread mentioned property, which is the store of value and has been the proven store of value for thousands of years.
Not one person.
We are doomed.
Property is great. One problem with property is that it is titled by the government, and can be easily confiscated by a rogue government with just a paperwork shuffle among other tricks. Ask the native Americans, anybody who has had the pleasure of experiencing eminent domain, Rhodesians, South Africans, Kulaks, Palestinians, Dutch farmers…
Also, hard to monitor/defend.
In that vein you need to watch out for squatters, adverse possession, re-zoning, train derailments, natural disasters, vandals, copper thieves, road expansion (part of eminent domain), white flight, build back better with section 8 expansion, upkeep and updates, and on and on…
But yes, for some time, MOST property has appreciated in value, a lot of it faster than official inflation.
It's not though. Property that you don't use is just a huge cost in maintenance. A cost most people don't want to have in times of crisis, meaning they dump their property for dirt cheap. And after a crisis, if you haven't maintained it, the property isn't going to be very valuable.
And if you had the extra resources for maintenance during crisis, they would have been better spent buying dirt cheap property.
But a gold coin from the Roman Empire is worth more now than it was then. (While a property title from the Roman Empire is worth exactly nothing today. )
In Weimar Germany, you could buy a house for a couple ounces of gold.
Is your mortgage paid off?
Yes, I’m old. Mortgages, at low interest rates and over a long, fixed term, are great debt in any event.
Not in a collapse.
A fixed rate mortgage would be great in a collapse, especially a high inflation environment because each dollar you pay down is less as time goes on.
What a convenient collapse where normal life, jobs, and bills just continue like nothing happened.
rolls eyes
If we’re talking about a total collapse of civilization, then property sounds like the perfect asset. You won’t even have to pay your mortgage woohoo!
I would add social relationships as well, and not that social media garbage. Anyone who thinks they can live off the land on their own has been watching too many movies.
Tobacco and alcohol are also a decent investment
Lol... cash
Most cash is in bank computers. Physical cash might have a non zero value. Might.
It'll start some fires? Kindling is a necessity
Cash is good. Even if the bank collapse quickly. Cash will get fuel booze etc. For a while
Yep.
There's no reason to have 20K on hand. But 2K, and items of value, will give you flexibility until shit shakes out. You then adapt from there: either sell your items of value if cash stay relevant, or trade your items for other items of value that you don't have.
Agreed. Some gold silver weapons storable foods. Water purification tools ( filters tablets just incase ) Ride it out awhile and be a like the coyote ( the K9 not criminals) and be prepared to adapt
loooolllll
90% silver pre 1964 American coinage in a big safe in your basement.
https://www.jmbullion.com/silver/junk-silver/90-silver/
Or one .oz silver bars............
https://www.jmbullion.com/silver/silver-bars/
This
Pay cash at local dealers.
Yep. I've paid cash for every ounce of bullion in my safe. And the two coin shops I use simply write "Sold to cash" on the receipt, they don't care about a paper trail.
I've never seen it cheaper online, only more expensive. And there's no record of my transaction.
Monex for bigger quantities (10oz, 100oz, etc). Ask for Art, he’s awesome.
And NEVER buy paper silver, PSLV, ETFs, etc.
I recommend apmex as well.
Gold is a scam. I'll take it off your hands, give it to me :)
Hello US Govt from 1933
Gold is stupid ; )
Precious metals are your best friends.
Don't forget firearms
What?!?! Gold is the same price as before the pandemic. You would be better putting your money in a fucking savings account with 20bp interest. Inflation is a bitch. If you are not gaining 10% annually over the last 4 years you have lost money.
Invest in vices. That's what will be of value when it all tanks.
Invest in abilities. Get a lathe and mill, maybe a 3d printer. Have a stock of raw materials. Grow a permaculture forest.
Basically, learn how to utilize and create things and invest in the means to do it.
25 million here illegally.
Are hormone pills vices?
Absolutely, they will be worth twice their weight in gold when the beards start growing in and the boobs shrinking.
This is true... and sad.... but still true.
Gold in the safe.
Lead in the mag.
Beans in the can.
Joke's on you! They're both scams!
Both are true.
Only true money is coins, based in gold and silver.
Everything else is at best a promise of money or, more often a sack full of empty platitudes...
Nah, there are other goods that are worth trading, assuming you have enough more for yourself or you don't need the inventory
Metal has no more intrinsic value than paper. It’s value is only a human idea.
If the system collapsed, you have no idea what the new store of value would be.
Metal bugs have been sold by the most transparent ad and marketing campaigns ever run on air or wire.
They actually do.
You might want to read up on why gold and silver have always been the basis of any monetary system throughout all of human history.
Did they send that history write up to you with the brochure from Hannity ads?
Money, in any form, only has the value because we choose to perceive it as such.
It can’t be a limitless item, for obvious Rothschild reasons.
But from there it can be anything in the world.
Your metals are the old world choice. They don’t mean shit now.
Gold and silver have had practical applications beyond their scarcity for millennia. They have more value now, because they're excellent conductors and useful in modern electronics.
They aren’t remotely scarce.
Your not stacking it to use in industry, but as currency for daily life survival.
In the societal event that your “precious” metals became useful in the way you bought them for, big business industry will not be the viable focus of society.
So basically your shit is worthless for the purpose you acquired it. Or only as useful as the person who has something that you need deems them to be. So, congrats, you were able to buy a few cans of beans in exchange for what was $10,000 worth of gold. Way to go champ.
Should have bought guns, bullets, alcohol, tabacco, and storable food.
All of which will be way WAY WAY more valuable than that shit some transparently scammy ad on a Hannity show sold you.
All that guns, alcohol, bullets and other bullshit is orders of magnitude less scarce than gold. Alcohol can literally be made anywhere using pretty much anything and water.
There are literally billions of guns, with millions more made every day.
The only conceivable scenario where the access to these things is somehow limited is a mad-max fallout style apocalypse.
Which is stupid. That shit has never happened except very locally during wars, and most probably will never happen globally.
But I can give you 10 examples just in the last 100 years where a financial system collapsed without society collapsing. No shortage of guns or food. Never a shortage of alcohol. But all value wiped out, except for physical objects that were and will always be valuable.
The only thing remotely valuable on that list is tobacco, because addicts need their fix and tobacco doesn't store well while taking ages to cure. But since it doesn't store well, the only time investing in cigarettes makes sense is exactly before a crisis happens, which you're not going to get right on timing anyway.
Metals can be used in electronics ,wires,radios etc. The will have value
That's like saying "beauty is just a human idea and isn't worth anything intrinsically"
Yeah, well, the very idea of "worth" is a human idea. There are no atoms of worth anywhere in the universe that you could measure outside the "human idea" context.
Rare metals that have the heft, malleability and color of gold and that will remain shiny forever will always have worth.
Cash, gold, ammo, and booze. I don’t drink, but I have some stashed to barter with when the time comes.
And smokes.
It literally takes like some sugar and water and week's time to make booze. It's really not that valuable unless it was originally very good and valuable booze to start with, and only if it's the kind that you can store for a long time.
In a SHTF situation it may not be so easy , or wise to set up a still. I don’t want to have to wait if I need it to clean a wound, etc. But yes, very easy and even fun to make your own.
BUY GOLD & SILVER
Tobacco and alcohol. It will always have value also
Not your keys, not your crypto.
Buy land. They stopped making it.
“They stopped making it.”
Hawaiian volcano: “Hold my beer!”
.Win has never been close to a general consensus on where it stands with Bitcoin. Boomers say it's imaginary while clutching their printed dollars and thin-air stocks that are valued in an increasingly worthless currency.
Doomers says we're stupid for investing in something that has outpaced the gains of any other asset for well over a decade, at this point. How much longer does it have to perform to be viewed as legitimate?
Bitcoin is really just a bet that there won't be a magnificent global collapse like so many of you seem sure is going to happen, but that Clown World will live on and shit will get progressively dumber over time.
Your gold/silver won't save you. You already don't use your guns. Bitcoin may not be the end all, be all, but it will be a significant player in the future.
I did a test. I shut the power off in my house. went to my computer and tried to log in...no go. I went to my gun safe. had access to my guns. went to regular safe. silver and gold coins felt nice. not saying crypto isn't worthwhile but it also has limitations.
We will see. Gold and silver have been MONEY for thousands of years… yet, it HASN’T been MONEY since 1964 (silver) 1971 (gold). 🤣🤣 So we’re talking a THOUSANDS of years track record vs the last 50 vs “crypto”. 🤪🤪
Precious metals have significant value. I think true diversification includes them, AND Bitcoin. People act like devoting a few percent of their net worth to a more speculative investment is going to kill them.
The same people that rag on something like Bitcoin will also rave about "MUH DWAC" without acknowledging that the SPAC crazy was a true flash in the pan.
Meanwhile, Russia and China have been considering going back on it supposedly.
YOU can go back on it too!!
Fuck both keeping my cash in the mattress the one I masturbate on so no one will touch it not even with gloves
I laughed way to hard at this.
90% sure Crypto is a scam.
100% sure Banks are a scam.
The choice is clear....
99.9% of crypto is a scam. Bitcoin only. There is no second best.
It's all a scam.
BUY LEAD
Correct answer.
Gold and silver.
Diversify with gold, silver, and lead.
They are both scams, keep your money in a safe at home.
And very soon you will have none, inflation will ensure that.
lol yeah because cash isn't a scam.
Both are a scam, buy canned food.
This dichotomy has been pushed artificially since its inception.
Fake money is not libertarian and not "free"
Silver is at $20/ oz… 🤣… so cheap. If it goes to $16/ oz I’ll trade ALL of my federal reserve zeros and ones in somebody else’s computer for physical SiLVeR!! 💥 Don’t worry… I have a bunker, GuNZ and ammo. 🤣🤣
Better to invest in precious metals like lead and brass.
Cash and precious metals baby!
Money is just a tool that the elites use to keep the normies under control. Real power comes from relationships and the ability to influence people.
Gold is Money.
No thanks. My 12 girls are laying at least 6-10 eggs a day for us. We also have all the food, land and means to keep it thru whatever is coming. I just know once things “normalize”, Gold and Silver will be $$$$ again.
The moment that crypto was allowed to be traded as a security and reportable to the IRS it became a tool of the wealthy and banks to move vast sums of money quickly and without the enhanced scrutiny of swift, it also became a tool to bilk regular individuals of their small personal wealth buy pumping and dumping everything from Bitcoin to shitcoin similar to what they do to your 401k where you are locked in without a quick exit strategy. Bitcoin was great until wall Street got their hands on it.
The whole crypto market is only 1 Trillion while the US GDP alone is 24 Trillion...
Blockchain cryptocurrencies represent an alternate system to the US Monetary System, the real move hasn't happened yet.
Ammo
Eggs
Buy food, water, ammo and gear, everything else is a scam.
Do what Ron Swanson does, and bury numerous boxes of gold in different locations.
Buy gold?
GOLD
Don’t try to gelt trip me!