649 In other words, this shit is going tits up (media.patriots.win) posted 75 days ago by wu_tang_clan 75 days ago by wu_tang_clan +651 / -2 83 comments download share 83 comments share download save hide report block hide replies
It's crazy how they're planning on getting rid of the only thing that makes them any money. People don't want electric cars.
I'm OK with having electric cars as an option for those who want them, but don't force them.
Buy the "Battery" car cheap when nobody else will.
Gut all the woke Battery shit and drop in a nice internal combustion engine.
Reap what EV tax breaks still exist.
The sad thing is that's probably going to be considered an extremist viewpoint here in a few years.
Not just that, but EVs are prohibitively expensive. Tesla was selling at a loss for years, probably still is (I haven’t checked since)
The only way it can be sustained is with taxpayer money.
Tesla is now the most profitable car company per vehicle by far. Electric motors are ultimately just much simpler than internal combustion, so will win out in the end. The real problem has always been gasoline vs batteries, gasoline is far more energy dense by weight than batteries have been, but as batteries get better the equation gets turned upside down. In the past decade batteries have gone from being 20x worse than gasoline to only being 4x worse. In 5-10 more years, batteries will be better than gasoline.
Criteria for me to consider EVs
1: Must have same or longer on a charge than the average IC vehicle 2: Must be able to recharge battery within 15 minutes to 100%, same as a refill on an IC vehicle 3: Must be able to run in the same environmental conditions as an IC vehicle 4: Must be approximately the same price as an IC vehicle of same body and interior style 5: Must have enough recharge stations to drive anywhere I want in the US.
Wont buy until these criteria are met.
Totally agree, I'm not buying yet either, but- 1: This is the case already. 2: Probably 5+ years away, but when battery tech is mature they'll charge in under 2 minutes. 3: They will run in more environments, and be much more reliable in extreme environments. 4: They'll be cheaper. 5: Normal gas stations will start having charging stations, or they'll end up out of business (most of them will end up out of business anyway, though).
I think this is optimistic.
Ambient temperature affects EV range significantly. F-150 Lightnings have a marked drop in range as ambient temperature approaches freezing. Under load, such as towing, also greatly reduces range.
Never going to happen unless the grid is upgraded, which will require nuclear.
Not with current or foreseeable battery tech. Ceramic dielectric batteries show promise, but they're nowhere near market.
Per weight, it's impossible for batteries to attain the energy density of a liquid fuel because of packaging, air gaps, etc. The only way they will approach the effective energy density is because 80% of the energy in a liquid fuel is lost to heat during combustion. Fuel cells are far more efficient.
In order to satisfy more than one of the above, there will have to be an incredible breakthrough in battery tech. This could happen with the billions being poured into research, but the problem is that most of this research is fixated on improving existing chemistries which isn't a tenable solution.
Effective energy density is the only measure of energy density that is relevant. That internal combustion engines lose so much power to heat, and batteries do not lose much at all, is the equalizer. not sure where you heard that fuel cells are more efficient, they are about halfway between batteries and gasoline. Only when it is very cold, and the waste heat of fuel cells can be used to heat the cabin, can they catch up to batteries. And, that's only so long as batteries are using heating elements to heat the cabin- Tesla's heat pump might put fuel cells out of that game. I think fuel cells are a half measure, not really worth the effort to develop fully (even though developing them might be considerably easier). At least, not in the context of cars.
There are at least a dozen battery techs being researched that have the potential to be that radical leap, in addition to the probably hundred or so research teams making incremental improvements. But, just another 5 or 6 incremental improvements will result in a battery that is comparable (though still better and worse in some ways) in utility to gasoline.
Yeah, agree. Currently, gasoline is still the better choice BY FAR. But, battery tech will one day surpass it. Just not today, or tomorrow. But a decade or less? Maybe.
I just cut them open and fill my tank with battery juice. Every year it gets faster
It looks like Tesla has a net profit of $9574 per car sold. Link
I watched a video review of the F-150 Lightning that compared trailer towing with a standard F-150 gasser. The reviewers were clearly pro-Lightning and wanted it to do well, but it was an absolute failure. The Lightning couldn't even reach the first recharging station they had planned on for their trip, so they had to frantically search for a closer alternative station and ended up abandoning the rest of the trip completely.
I remember that one. They were going against a V8 GMC Denali which wasn't exactly fuel efficient. And still had another estimated 150 miles range. lol
And these things cost $100K+ if you want any kind of range. And then just imagine the battery replacement costs when the range starts to dwindle after a few years.
I just saw about 10 new EVs outside a Lucid showroom/dealership. Maybe in another generation or two of batteries they'll make sense for many people, but not now and who trusts Ford anyway?
I sure don't after my parents got stuck with a Focus that had one of the dual clutch transmissions and was pretty much a lemon. That car hasn't hit 90k miles yet and it's already had 4 new clutches, a new TCM, a new alternator, and a bunch of wiring has had to be replaced. Not to mention the engine sounds horrible about half the time it's running.
Edit: added in the last half of the paragraph because I got distracted and submitted early
Lol why didn’t they lemon it??
It didn't qualify for the lemon laws of the state it was bought in, and even if it did I doubt my parents would have went to court for it. There was a settlement where Ford would buy it back at market value, but this was early 2020 when used cars were dirt cheap so my parents would have got about $5k for it. The last time the clutch was replaced it was supposedly a reengineered one, and while it still grinds, shudders, and jerks like someone who is learning to drive stick it hasn't gotten worse in 3 years, so I think they're just going to drive it until it falls apart.
It turns out little kid me was right for telling them not to buy a Ford.
They lost the war with Asian companies. Ever since GM and Ford were semi-nationalized by the bailouts some years ago they've been looking for a way to bow out of the ICE competition. That's the whole point of these ridiculous battery cars.
Only Government Motors and Chrysler were nationalized. Ford received low interest TARP loans but paid them back.
Cause the EV trucks r fucking useless. Towing is just non existant... With the fully maxed out EV truck with the extended batteries costing over $90,000 it could tow a 7,000 lbs trailer for 90 miles.. hope theres a charging station every hour and a half
And that depends on weather and how often you are stopping and going too
Yup. 20-32F and half the range is lost out the gate.
Why not just tow a diseal generator and plug it in! Checkmate, bigots!
That 90 mile range would be even less in the winter. The article was published in July, but they don't say what the outdoor temperatures were. If they were to test it in the winter with the heaters on because it's -20 outside that range would be even less than 90 miles.
I'm wondering though, who in their right mind is buying this? The main advantage of a pickup is to be able to haul stuff, which you can't do with this pickup. So why would you go for the pickup instead of an electric car or SUV?
Ev trucks (including semis) may work in cities in limited circumstances. one thing EV (battery powered) cars may do is allow for point source emissions control at a power plant, which can be potentially easier than carrying all of that around with the car / truck. They also accelerate WELL. That being said the safety is bad (they weigh much more than regular ice powered cars which means more momentum / energy in a crash, nore weight on tires etc. They also pose an electrical / fire hazard in different ways than ice powered cars). They may be viable at some point, but the electrical infrastructure needs to be massively improved to make them so. They also will never be viable for certain situations. They also are very likely to improve over time. I agree with having them as an option: given the choice nowadays of a low water use toilet or standard flush i would go with the low water use... Toilets like the american standard champion and cadet models completely kick ass, but the 90s low flow variants are horrible.
I wouldn't want them at a power plant, it just seems like a hazard. Most of the time Firefighters just let these cars burn unless its 100% necessary. For example.. this car took 6,000 gallons to finally put it out
It's kinda of like if your house is on fire and you have solar panels on your roof. Firefighters aren't going to ventilate your roof.. Its too hazardous to use a chainsaw next to those solar panels due to the threat of electrocution. And if they can't ventilate your roof theres going to be less visibility for them to search for people (if they enter at all). All these pushes for "new energy" just cause more problems and solve nothing
The biggest problem isnt the idea of new tech, its the insistence on it by non technical people who dont think about let alone worry about reality. Many issues with "new tech" could potentially be solved and allow for use of the technology, but insisting a tech is "green" when it creates mass amounts of toxic waste for example, or installing roof mounted solar as you have discussed are the real downfalls. Engineering problems cannot be solved unless they are acknowledged. In the case of low flush volume crappers as an example, geometry and coatings solved the plugged toilet issues. Certain "green" tech should be abandoned and new things tried, but this doesnt happen when the politics of "green" insist on ignoring the fundamental problems. Leftists love to make the claim that WE hate the environment; this isn't true. We just dont see how strip mining and toxic waste pools associated with battery production are "green". Molten salt nuclear if done right with NO tolerance for woke bullshit incompetence, could potentially be a green power source utilizing thorium fuel. The left would rather cover the earth with solar panels that take more energy to make than they generate over their entire lifespan, while inhaling their own farts and declaring themselves the great paragons of environmentalism.
5 min to fill your tank, how long to recharge the battery?
Buying an EV makes no sense. They have zero residual value
That’s another important factor. In a regular gasoline or diesel car, most people trade them in after a certain number of years/miles or maybe when they start to need some more expensive repairs.
Even in the latter case, as long as they don’t have completely blown engines, there’s still a resale market to fix them and sell them on some used car lot. Electric cars, once the battery is dead, won’t hold charge and needs to be replaced. The car is essentially worth nothing.
Like a phone . Toss it every couple , buy a new one.........sell your soul to the company store.
Can't the batteries be reused as crane counter weights?
Double Fun , when they burst into flames
Note to investors. Ford has PROVEN bad decision making XTREME. Get out now.
2023 Ford Mustang Mach-E - I'd love to see a pic of the design team.
Considering it looks similar to a Subaru I bet you can guess what the team looks like.
Instead of the EV version, I'd prefer the 5.2-liter supercharged Predator V-8 engine.
"Okay sir ... including the manual transmission that'll cost you an additional 2,250,000 social credits. Bitcoin?"
Don't get me started on that embarrassing hatchback.
That is incredibly gay-looking for a Mustang. Is it a Brony car?
Battery cars are far worse for the environment than any gas car. They are ludicrous and require strip mining of the earth.
They’ll keep pushing EVs, they know they’re gonna fail, but they’ll keep pushing them regardless.
Blackrock/ESG keeps this market on artificial life support.
The EV push is unsustainable. They're deliberately destroying the auto industry.
Startup? More like shutdown
Strange, it’s almost like people don’t want electric cars. Maybe, someday when the infrastructure is there in the range is there for them to perform in charge as quickly as fueling, a traditional gas or diesel powered car.
On the plus side, gangbangers don't want tobsteal them and get into police chases.
Companies sold battery powered cars in the 1910s. They had a similar range.
They went away because gasoline was a better fuel source, still is. They are toys for rich people, not something you can rely on everyday.
Who would want to buy a car that with max load can only do 80 miles?
Electric vehicles WILL be amazing. One day. That day is not today.
There is a lot of exciting R&D happening in battery tech. Higher capacities, better charge stability over time, faster charging, etc. It's a promising tech, but it HAS to overcome the severe limitations on it currently: heavy batteries, limited capacity, battery discharge, CHARGE TIME, etc.
The problem is not with the concept of an EV so much as every company besides Tesla has no idea how to make them.
to be fair, tesla is only successful because its a sexy LUXURY car
Maybe the government shouldn't have gotten involved and forced transition timelines to EVs before the market wants them... Just a thought.
Oof. They're investing bigly into new humongous ev factory complexes in TN and KY.
EVs are not a bad idea... after we invent long lasting capacitor batteries made from abundant materials. Right now they're just an inefficient and annoying to maintain ecological disaster.
They dont care about the money. We the taxpayer will bail them out.
THIS. Its a win/win scenario for them. Either people buy the dumb shit theyre pushing and make billions, or they don't and they can reliably get a bailout because they were just doing what the govt wanted.
initially i was shocked by how many people dont understand that ev means giant battery, they dont understand batteries dont actually create the power, they just store power created elsewhere, usually from fossil fuels. ive talked to far too many people who just dont get it, they somehow think the cars arent just powered by electricity, that they generate it somehow. of course these tards dont have the slightest understanding of regenerative braking or anything that can help generate a bit of power, they just think ev = free mileage somehow. its ridiculous how stupid the average person is.
They elected Biden, so no, it doesn't shock me at all. Now the smarter people are suffering through their debacle.
In my experience they usually believe some BS argument about it being a more "efficient" use of oil or something.
It's almost like people don't want to buy pickup trucks that are incapable of hauling a load.
Get woke go broke
Well, they couldn't possibly expect turning the Mustang into a hatchback could make money in any time line, could they?
They aren't safe!! I was on the Interstate the other day and saw one zooming along when all of a sudden a June bug hit the windshield and tore it all to hell!
To help bail these companies out, the Biden administration will sign an executive order requiring people to buy at least one EV every two years, no tax breaks if they don't
Who the fuck wants a big electric truck?
Electric vehicles were always retarded for anything other than an expensive toy for rich people.
they don't care... big tax write off
You gotta spend money to lose money!