It is 100% legal and not obstruction because this is a civil case not a criminal prosecution. However, because it is a civil case, the judge and jury are required to assume that the destroyed data supports the plaintiffs’ case.
Similar to what they did to Alex Jones. He turned over all his documents. The court said he didn't turn over all his documents, without any proof of that. Then the court found him guilty by default.
It can't be stated enough how fucked up the Alex Jones trials are. For a judge to state that guilt has only been established and the focus is punishment is a chilling turn in the right to justice.
Yeah, how does that not violate the 5th amendment. You accuse me and I have to provide evidence proving or disproving your allegation? No, you should have to provide evidence your accusation is true. If I provide something that disproves you, great, but I should not have to.
He doesn't have access to the phones... the accuser should prove beyond a shadow of doubt, the scumbag judge demands info Giuliani doesn't have... just like Jones' Google analytics data.
Yeah but that doesn't make any sense... they didn't delete the phone itself. they asked you to turn over the phone so turn over the phone the way you received it from the FBI........
Just remember what that Russian Gulag book said.... if you just shoot these bastards in the face when they come to drag you out of your homes it'll stop them eventually
”And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say goodbye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrest, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood that they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. What about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur – what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs [Soviet state institutions] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!”
This was a civil suit, not a criminal prosecution . The fifth amendment prohibition against self-incrimination doesn’t apply, there aren’t any prosecutors involved, the defendant can’t incriminate themselves because there’s no crime.
Bill Cosby is a perfect example. He was sued for sexual assault but would not testify under 5th amendment grounds. The DA then told Cosby he had immunity if he would testify at the civil trial. He did. The state then used his testimony to convict him in the criminal trial.
The reason he got out of prison is because THAT’S A BIG FUCKING NONO.
You can’t trick people into waiving their 5th amendment rights. This is what they are trying to do with this case.
Of course you can’t trick people into waiving their fifth amendment rights in a criminal trial, so Cosby’s conviction in the criminal trial was overturned. But in Giuliani’s case there is no criminal prosecution and never will be because defamation is a tort not a crime. So the entire question of fifth amendment protection against criminal prosecution doesn’t come up.
Sure, but that's not the case we're talking about here. In the Georgia criminal case he is free to plead the fifth, and neither the judge nor the jury may hold that against him.
However, statements made under oath or facts revealed in discovery, in any case elsewhere in the US, are always admissible evidence as long as they can make a case for relevance.
Yes, so Giuliani is entitled to plead the fifth or otherwise refuse to cooperate with discovery in this defamation case if he feels that the information in question might be incriminating in the criminal case.
The downside of this strategy is that it concedes the defamation case and the fifth amendment doesn’t shield him from damages in that case.
The exact words of the self-incrimination clause are “nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself”. The key phrase is “in any criminal case” and this isn’t a criminal case.
Section 242 of Title 18 makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.
For the purpose of Section 242, acts under "color of law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within their lawful authority, but also acts done beyond the bounds of that official's lawful authority, if the acts are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. It is not necessary that the crime be motivated by animus toward the race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin of the victim.
They do care. They love how this looks. It's the same way they filled entire stadiums of supporters during the original struggle sessions. The NPC leftbots consider the destruction of a country the highest form of entertainment.
Go back to 1990. Who would ever think this is possible. Not one person. Not even Biden back then. That's how far communist they have gone. And the American public are too stupid to see it.
This is hilarious. He thought he would get to present his evidence in discovery. What an idiot! This is what happens when your team says”let’s see what happens” after supposedly “catching them all” and not doing anything about it.
Hillary Clinton and Huma Abedin smashed phones with hammers, bleach bit laptops during an investigation. Hillary Clinton needs to be indicted according to this judge.
So let me get this straight - Rudy was supposed to turn over X devices, but said devices had been confiscated by the FBI. The court was notified that the the FBI had the devices, demanded Rudy produce the devices again and then ruled a default judgement because Rudy could not hand over the devices that the FBI has?
Anyone who thinks the justice system is going to fix itself when it's been out of control for longer than I've been alive is living with his head in the ground.
This is truly remarkable. On par with North Korea.
Rudy should have used bleach bit and destroyed devices with hammers, which is 100% legal and not obstruction.
This right here should be the top comment.
someone get this pede some shoes!!
Someone get this pede a delicious ghetto libation!!
A FORTY OF O.E. FOR THE GENTLEMAN IN THE DAPPER FUR COLLAR COAT AND MAGA SHOES.
clearly you have never had a delicious ghetto libation
It’s going to take sternly worded emails and tweets.
Blinded by the glow
This is exactly what they did to Alex Jones in his court case..
Judge found him guilty because of some paperwork she claimed he hadn't provided, even though he had.
kangaroo courts
It is 100% legal and not obstruction because this is a civil case not a criminal prosecution. However, because it is a civil case, the judge and jury are required to assume that the destroyed data supports the plaintiffs’ case.
Who are the 5 dickheads who downvoted this?
Similar to what they did to Alex Jones. He turned over all his documents. The court said he didn't turn over all his documents, without any proof of that. Then the court found him guilty by default.
Yep, I just said the same before seeing your comment. I've been worried they're going to do the same to President Trump.
I keep saying this. The courts are compromised. We saw it with that total farce for Alex Jones.
The FBI owns every aspect of the Deep State supply chain.
Holy fucking shit she was ruling over three of the largest fake cases in American history
Apparently she thinks she will get rewarded handsomely instead of ending up drowning in a freak naked paddleboard accident.
That particular ones going to require her having a large black penis
I don't know if Michael paddle boards, but I suppose it's always a possibility
Good to know what's being censored
Yeah now I'm really perplexed their comment said nothing wrong.....
I don't know if it was thought that they were referencing her being Jewish or some dumb shit but...... fuck I don't know
But like you said, I did repeat by far the most important information I saw on that wiki page and it blew my fucking mind
She looks like Killary. I pegged her being from the same Tribe a mile away.
Fuck ConPro.
I can assure you , it really is............
FBI processed Hunter's white house dime bag for the secret service.
FBI: "Fixing Biden's Incidents"
The Alex Jones method... demand bullshit & default judgment to deny the right to a jury trial.
It can't be stated enough how fucked up the Alex Jones trials are. For a judge to state that guilt has only been established and the focus is punishment is a chilling turn in the right to justice.
That's what happens when judges are appointed or voted on should I say
Impunity is a sick thing.
Don't worry, it only gets worse from here...
https://youtu.be/JEtl2X6mBmQ?si=b2uoJ8etO82I6O2V
Welcome to the Post-constitutional era
PEOPLE should not be forced to provide any information during discovery.
Yeah, how does that not violate the 5th amendment. You accuse me and I have to provide evidence proving or disproving your allegation? No, you should have to provide evidence your accusation is true. If I provide something that disproves you, great, but I should not have to.
He doesn't have access to the phones... the accuser should prove beyond a shadow of doubt, the scumbag judge demands info Giuliani doesn't have... just like Jones' Google analytics data.
Doesn't he still owe the Sandy Hook parents eleventy gazillion dollars or some arbitrary and impossibly high fine?
Not until he exhausts his appeals.
My question is, were the devices still in FBI's possession or where they eventually released to Rudy?
EDIT: They were apparently returned on 19 Aug 2022, but Rudy claimed stuff was deleted from the phones and accounts were locked.
Yeah but that doesn't make any sense... they didn't delete the phone itself. they asked you to turn over the phone so turn over the phone the way you received it from the FBI........
But what if the things the FBI deleted were the exculpatory bits, leaving in the stuff that in absence of those bits, appear incriminating?
Do you really think there is a chance in hell the FBI released those phones when they are currently prosecuting him in criminal court?
Just remember what that Russian Gulag book said.... if you just shoot these bastards in the face when they come to drag you out of your homes it'll stop them eventually
”And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say goodbye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrest, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood that they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. What about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur – what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs [Soviet state institutions] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!”
We must all decide our ROE's now and act accordingly.
Gulag Archipelago by Alexander Solzhinitzyn (probably butchered the spelling).
Solzhenitsyn
So close.
Yes I've read the entire book but for obvious reasons can't spell Ivan's name... thank you Pede
This was a civil suit, not a criminal prosecution . The fifth amendment prohibition against self-incrimination doesn’t apply, there aren’t any prosecutors involved, the defendant can’t incriminate themselves because there’s no crime.
Yes it does.
Bill Cosby is a perfect example. He was sued for sexual assault but would not testify under 5th amendment grounds. The DA then told Cosby he had immunity if he would testify at the civil trial. He did. The state then used his testimony to convict him in the criminal trial.
The reason he got out of prison is because THAT’S A BIG FUCKING NONO.
You can’t trick people into waiving their 5th amendment rights. This is what they are trying to do with this case.
Of course you can’t trick people into waiving their fifth amendment rights in a criminal trial, so Cosby’s conviction in the criminal trial was overturned. But in Giuliani’s case there is no criminal prosecution and never will be because defamation is a tort not a crime. So the entire question of fifth amendment protection against criminal prosecution doesn’t come up.
He's literally being indicted in Georgia.
Sure, but that's not the case we're talking about here. In the Georgia criminal case he is free to plead the fifth, and neither the judge nor the jury may hold that against him.
However, statements made under oath or facts revealed in discovery, in any case elsewhere in the US, are always admissible evidence as long as they can make a case for relevance.
Yes, so Giuliani is entitled to plead the fifth or otherwise refuse to cooperate with discovery in this defamation case if he feels that the information in question might be incriminating in the criminal case.
The downside of this strategy is that it concedes the defamation case and the fifth amendment doesn’t shield him from damages in that case.
The exact words of the self-incrimination clause are “nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself”. The key phrase is “in any criminal case” and this isn’t a criminal case.
Section 242 of Title 18 makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.
For the purpose of Section 242, acts under "color of law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within their lawful authority, but also acts done beyond the bounds of that official's lawful authority, if the acts are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. It is not necessary that the crime be motivated by animus toward the race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin of the victim.
The left knows how this looks they just don’t care.
They do care. They love how this looks. It's the same way they filled entire stadiums of supporters during the original struggle sessions. The NPC leftbots consider the destruction of a country the highest form of entertainment.
So where are we meeting? When do we start?
Like...WTF am I supposed to do? I'm not gonna become Antifa.
FR
I would be surprised if he doesn't appeal the decision
Interesting omission.
They are pulling what they did to Alex Jones on him.
Go back to 1990. Who would ever think this is possible. Not one person. Not even Biden back then. That's how far communist they have gone. And the American public are too stupid to see it.
Will be thrown out in appeal. It's ridiculous at best and malicious at worst.
I assume this gets appealed..
Lol this won't hold up in appellate court
Wut so Hillary is cool right?
So now we know this is exactly what they're going to do with Trump after they raided Mar A Lago
Now do Hillary
This is hilarious. He thought he would get to present his evidence in discovery. What an idiot! This is what happens when your team says”let’s see what happens” after supposedly “catching them all” and not doing anything about it.
https://youtu.be/M9GzKO1OgVc
Hillary Clinton and Huma Abedin smashed phones with hammers, bleach bit laptops during an investigation. Hillary Clinton needs to be indicted according to this judge.
I bet he feels alone. Nobody coming to his rescue. Just as nobody is going to rescue us. Losing sucks.
Ah yes the Alex Jones strategy.
Have the requested content deleted by Big Tech or confiscated by the FBI, you failed to turn it over so default of course!
The cops won't protect you.
The law will deny you standing and default you.
they're nothing if not devious
The judge seems nice
Alex Jones was the template.
So… the Alex Jones maneuver…
You’re guilty because I gave you impossible rules to follow.
Trump needs to blanket pardon all MAGA. Including all J6ers
So let me get this straight - Rudy was supposed to turn over X devices, but said devices had been confiscated by the FBI. The court was notified that the the FBI had the devices, demanded Rudy produce the devices again and then ruled a default judgement because Rudy could not hand over the devices that the FBI has?
Banana "republic".
...Because that is how it's written. Or is this another GWP special report?
Anyone who thinks the justice system is going to fix itself when it's been out of control for longer than I've been alive is living with his head in the ground.
Our courts are meaningless at this point.
Starting to agree with BLM, Fuck 12.
Giuliani is a smart dude and he knows his way around political theater. Strategic move imo.
My Biggest complaint against Trump (and allies) is that he keeps playing a game that is clearly CLEARLY rigged against him.