Its easy to make socialism look effective when your tiny ass country (or a weak-ass coalition of them) doesn’t have to fund its defense against a ~former~ superpower.
And when your collection of tiny ass countries don't have to fund their own medical research, but instead have a big country's citizens pay for most of it.
It is not Europe's war. This an American vs Russia proxy war FFS! A couple of American's said they were going to stop the Nordstream 2 pipeline...and it happened. NATO is an American proxy, and it moved into Ukraine.
A couple of American's said they were going to stop the Nordstream 2 pipeline...and it happened.
It happened before they said that. Nordstream 2 was never even put online and Nordstream 1 had been shut down for nearly 6 weeks prior to the "explosions". I guess we'll also ignore that there are a few Euro countries with the means and far more motivation to stop the pipelines than the Russians i.e. Norway.
US would never be affected by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Several European Countries are next on the chopping block, and should have been fighting for their own preservation from day 1. We should have stayed out of it while increasing our military manufacturing, and if ever getting involved at all just push out the illegal invader.
It’s the Uni party fags who want to spend so much on nato defence the military industrial complex overlords demand it. You can blame everyone else for the fact we are global baby sitters but at the end of the day we have elected ourselves for the position, to pad defence contractor pockets.
WWII without the US probably means Japan as a Soviet puppet state, if not an outright Russian colony given that I expect the USSR wouldn't have had any qualms about wiping out a death-happy Imperial Japan to the last man.
You have no explanation for how you suppose USSR would have wiped out Japan. Without US, USSR was being wiped out by Germany. They were utterly incapable of surviving German assault, much less turning around and destroying Japan.
Without US, USSR was being wiped out by Germany. They were utterly incapable of surviving German assault, much less turning around and destroying Japan.
The Nazis never made it past Stalingrad before the entire army sent against Russia was defeated.
The Soviets got so much aid from the US and Europe that that sounds like bullshit. Seriously just look up at all the shit they got. Very hard to think they would of done anything
The Soviets rolled back everything the Nazis threw at them. They only stopped when they met the Allies. Without the US, D-Day would not have happened, nor the invasion of Italy.
Americans certainly gave the Soviets lots of aid, most of which ended up at the bottom of the atlantic. The best piece of gear according to them were the trucks, the rest was pretty useless in Soviet hands. Take your pick: Sherman or T-34? The assumption from my part is that the US would have continued to sell material to whomever would pay, something the US does to this day. I thought the idea thrown around here was what would have happened if the US did not get involved in the war as a combattant. Without the US, there would have been no second front in Europe, no D-Day, no invasion of Italy. The Brits and Commonwealth could not have managed it. This is where I was getting at. By the time the US showed up, the Soviets had turned things around. Without an allied presence in France and the Netherlands (etc), the Soviets would have beaten back the Nazis and there would have been nobody to stop them rolling over France and perhaps even Italy and Spain, as they did with Poland and the rest of the countries they "liberated".
At a dinner toast with Allied leaders during the Tehran Conference in December 1943, Stalin added: “The United States … is a country of machines. Without the use of those machines through Lend-Lease, we would lose this war.”
Nikita Khrushchev, who led the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964, agreed with Stalin’s assessment. In his memoirs, Khrushchev described how Stalin stressed the value of Lend-Lease aid: “He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war.”
So yeah the Soviet leaders themselves thought they would have lost without our aid. Theres no way they would have done too much without all the supplies they had received. I mean the US started sending things overseas in 1941 the same year the soviets did their counterattack. So I'm not sure where you are going with the USSR rolling over France when that seems highly unlikely
No. England started it on purpose. If the world honestly gave a shit about "the Jews", Hitler offered to export all of them, no questions asked. Just bring a boat and you can have them. Who stepped up? Hallie Selassie, and like, nobody else. Seriously.
I'm fairly certain the holocaust happened, and it involved more non-Jews than Jews, and our involvement probably cut all that short, but we greedily stood by and waited for it to happen so we could turn on the American war machine.
Oh.. and no shit? They never turned it off ever since.
Started what on purpose? Not sure where you are getting at. It also wasn't just about Jews since Germany broke Poland apart like they stole a part of Czechoslovakia earlier. They made many poles starve to death and completely destroyed the country.
not my experience living there and traveling a ton.
Why interfere with their natural state.
markets. the USA made a fucking fortune rebuilding Europe and Japan.
its always about cash. america is a war profiteering corporation.
so markets and denying the 19th century mandarins in Moscow a sphere of influence. if you took the isolationist or Ahem realest position in the 90s it would have lead to nuclear war.
the american imperial project has Europe as quasi-vassals.
Let me assure you that when they don’t know you’re American, they -always- talk shit about Americans. I’ve been gaming with Euros for the past 2 years, no voice comms and they always talk shit about the US and how great they have it.
Fuck most of Europe though. They leech off us for protection while their jackass citizens badmouth us every chance they get. Europeans are a good source of comedy though, I get a good laugh every time those morons talk about “free” healthcare and college. Shit ain’t free when the government steals 45-60% of your income and then slaps you with a 20% VAT on almost everything you purchase. Socialist dickheads…
We have to pay for all that protection for all those other countries so they can spend more on crappy universal Healthcare and talk shit about our inflated military budget and lack of shitty commie healthcare as if we are disgusting heathens trespassing in their cystal palaces.
Time to pull out 100% and stick to ourselves.
All our old enemies are all our enemies again.
This is what happens when you let bullies make you feel guilty or let them bully you.
If they won the past wars, we would have been taken over and dismantled as a nation.
When we win wars, we slap em on the wrists and eventually start selling ourselves put to them.
All excep japan.
We got them so good they made Godzilla as a horror movie about the two black eyes we gave em.
Wow, big spenders. Does that mean we only give them 1% to 6% of relevant protection then? Yeah, I didn't think so because we have warmongers running America.
There was always more civilian guns than government goons in the US. Why everyone has been bending over with their pants down a century, while helping communism, tranny fuckery and degeneracy spread across the world is a mystery.
Most armed country in the world, largest military, and the most cucked people who somehow believes that random Europeans practice mind control, and that apparently 104% tax rates in EU magically just vanishes so that somehow the US pays for all the "welfare"...
Something went terribly wrong in America back in 1913.
It's not to late to go back to isolationism, in fact most of the world would appreciate that.
You can read their faggety web page for teir mission statement. One thing they don't mention is that one of NATO's mission was/is to keep Germany in line. That pipeline didn't blow itself up.
You're a Putin cocksucker. You cannot gargle hard enough for your tyrant.
That said, beginning in 2005 this war could have been prevented. That's 4 US administrations that didn't lift a finger to do so. 2 of each party.
Clearly, elected Officials are not in control of what really matters to them which is currency and war.
Diplomacy would not have meant appeasing Putin nor giving in to his demands, but diplomatic efforts were not even attempted. The logical conclusion is that DS wants war. A little education on the topic and at least part of their motive is killing as many white people as possible. And of course utter disregard for any environmental impacts, because they don't care about supposed "global warming" in the least, that's all a ruse.
Putin is a DS stooge, and he's also fully on board with Agenda 2030.
I did a back of the envelope calculation once; if the 5-6 major NATO countries (Germany, France, UK etc) spent 2% GDP on Defence, they would out-spend Russia by about a factor of 7. They could easily handle Russia without US "help", for example. Methinks the there are a lot of Neocons in the US that are glad Europe isn't spending on Defense, so the US can jerk them around on foreign policy involving Russia. You can blow up a pipeline, brag about it, and tell Germany to fuck off, for example.
The difference is that the US army simply can't just seize civilian assets, or have civilians go fight their wars in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Irak, Syra and a whole bunch of other places. Because no civilian would allow their property to be used to go fight someone else's war.
Military budgets in Europe are lower because their armies are build solely for defense, that means:
Civilian assets can and will be used for defense
Smaller countries which are easier to defend
Hundreds of millions of armed civilians will use their own guns and their own ammo to defend their towns and villages from enemy invader.
Civilian infrastructure will be used to ship supplies, roads, rail ,airports etc.
Less corruption than the US military industrial complex.
You have to go back to the 1940s and FDR being quite silly.
Then the Russians invaded every country in Europe they could without Patton there to scare them off.
The Russians then occupied them for five decades.
Also, when GDP and population are taken into account, the UK, Greece and Poland are spending a lot.
The Greeks gave you many things, like elections and toga parties.
The British gave you jet engines and angled flight deck carriers and your language.
The Poles, well, maybe a potato recipe or something.
Don't know what they spend it on, but Greece supposedly has higher GDP defense spending than USA.
The real losers are Canada and Spain. Spain just sits everything out, like they did in WW2, while Canada just outsources defense to the USA like they have since the 1960s.
NATO is not the problem.
Of course many of the politicians from the NATO countries are bad people.
People do forget, the only time NATO has been activated as a military force was to defend the USA in 2001.
If you got rid of NATO tomorrow, the USA would still have treaties with most of the countries from it anyway.
Anyway, without NATO, the USA would have to pay for the entire F-35 program itself. Nobody knows where they land, or where the price settles on those things.
Soviets not Russians, Stalin was Georgian, most Soviet Premier’s were Ukrainian. The only fault of that conquering due to the Russians was them paying for it with their blood (90 percent of Soviet casualties were Russian)
On the evening of 12 September 2001, less than 24 hours after the attacks, the Allies invoked the principle of Article 5.
September 13, 2001 - NATO invokes mutual defense clause in its founding treaty for first time
Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.
On 4 October, once it had been determined that the attacks came from abroad, NATO agreed on a package of eight measures to support the United States. On the request of the United States, it launched its first ever anti-terror operation – Eagle Assist – from mid-October 2001 to mid-May 2002. It consisted in seven NATO AWACS radar aircraft that helped patrol the skies over the United States; in total 830 crew members from 13 NATO countries flew over 360 sorties. This was the first time that NATO military assets were deployed in support of an Article 5 operation.
They should also pay for their own college and healthcare.
Its easy to make socialism look effective when your tiny ass country (or a weak-ass coalition of them) doesn’t have to fund its defense against a ~former~ superpower.
Which is what socialism is. They're getting free shit off of our taxes and shitting on our Healthcare and colleges 😂😂
Even though more of them come here for both than the other way around.
And when your collection of tiny ass countries don't have to fund their own medical research, but instead have a big country's citizens pay for most of it.
Yep. Fuck 'em and their hoity toity metric using asses.
NATO: "It pays to be white"
We've been saying this since 1914.
It is not Europe's war. This an American vs Russia proxy war FFS! A couple of American's said they were going to stop the Nordstream 2 pipeline...and it happened. NATO is an American proxy, and it moved into Ukraine.
It is Europe's war, always has been.
It happened before they said that. Nordstream 2 was never even put online and Nordstream 1 had been shut down for nearly 6 weeks prior to the "explosions". I guess we'll also ignore that there are a few Euro countries with the means and far more motivation to stop the pipelines than the Russians i.e. Norway.
US would never be affected by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Several European Countries are next on the chopping block, and should have been fighting for their own preservation from day 1. We should have stayed out of it while increasing our military manufacturing, and if ever getting involved at all just push out the illegal invader.
The rest of this pansy stuff is a waste.
So we shouldn't have helped in WW2?
The US didn’t just help, they won WW2. Nato countries should be paying the US for their protection.
It’s the Uni party fags who want to spend so much on nato defence the military industrial complex overlords demand it. You can blame everyone else for the fact we are global baby sitters but at the end of the day we have elected ourselves for the position, to pad defence contractor pockets.
Yup
We the People have done no such thing.
Know your enemy.
It's not true to say (or even think) that US won WWII. Our contributions were essential, but so were those of every Country that fought.
It was a world war, not just a US war.
If the US had not helped, the Soviets would have overrun Europe.
WWII without the US probably means Japan as a Soviet puppet state, if not an outright Russian colony given that I expect the USSR wouldn't have had any qualms about wiping out a death-happy Imperial Japan to the last man.
Japan would have been much stronger had we not wiped them out.
Your hypothetical scenario is illogical.
Quite frankly, your statement is illogical.
You have no explanation for how you suppose USSR would have wiped out Japan. Without US, USSR was being wiped out by Germany. They were utterly incapable of surviving German assault, much less turning around and destroying Japan.
The Nazis never made it past Stalingrad before the entire army sent against Russia was defeated.
The Soviets got so much aid from the US and Europe that that sounds like bullshit. Seriously just look up at all the shit they got. Very hard to think they would of done anything
The Soviets rolled back everything the Nazis threw at them. They only stopped when they met the Allies. Without the US, D-Day would not have happened, nor the invasion of Italy.
Did you completely ignore my statement and just decided to talk about Dday for some reason?
Americans certainly gave the Soviets lots of aid, most of which ended up at the bottom of the atlantic. The best piece of gear according to them were the trucks, the rest was pretty useless in Soviet hands. Take your pick: Sherman or T-34? The assumption from my part is that the US would have continued to sell material to whomever would pay, something the US does to this day. I thought the idea thrown around here was what would have happened if the US did not get involved in the war as a combattant. Without the US, there would have been no second front in Europe, no D-Day, no invasion of Italy. The Brits and Commonwealth could not have managed it. This is where I was getting at. By the time the US showed up, the Soviets had turned things around. Without an allied presence in France and the Netherlands (etc), the Soviets would have beaten back the Nazis and there would have been nobody to stop them rolling over France and perhaps even Italy and Spain, as they did with Poland and the rest of the countries they "liberated".
https://it.usembassy.gov/america-sent-gear-to-the-ussr-to-help-win-world-war-ii/
At a dinner toast with Allied leaders during the Tehran Conference in December 1943, Stalin added: “The United States … is a country of machines. Without the use of those machines through Lend-Lease, we would lose this war.”
Nikita Khrushchev, who led the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964, agreed with Stalin’s assessment. In his memoirs, Khrushchev described how Stalin stressed the value of Lend-Lease aid: “He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war.”
So yeah the Soviet leaders themselves thought they would have lost without our aid. Theres no way they would have done too much without all the supplies they had received. I mean the US started sending things overseas in 1941 the same year the soviets did their counterattack. So I'm not sure where you are going with the USSR rolling over France when that seems highly unlikely
No. England started it on purpose. If the world honestly gave a shit about "the Jews", Hitler offered to export all of them, no questions asked. Just bring a boat and you can have them. Who stepped up? Hallie Selassie, and like, nobody else. Seriously.
I'm fairly certain the holocaust happened, and it involved more non-Jews than Jews, and our involvement probably cut all that short, but we greedily stood by and waited for it to happen so we could turn on the American war machine.
Oh.. and no shit? They never turned it off ever since.
Started what on purpose? Not sure where you are getting at. It also wasn't just about Jews since Germany broke Poland apart like they stole a part of Czechoslovakia earlier. They made many poles starve to death and completely destroyed the country.
He's a stormfag pretending Hitler did nothing wrong.
Hitler planned on going to war, before 1925. Stormfags deny reality because they're ignorant and stupid.
This is exactly why he wanted to pull out of NATO.
why did he increase troops and spending on nato operations, then?
he strengthened NATO.
He got the rest of NATO to increase THEIR defense spending.
and increased America's as well.
He changed his mind when he got elected. Probably listened to the wrong people.
Majority of us Americans are also "Europeans", if we are talking about things like natural state.
The Marshall Plan was good for the world, not US.
not my experience living there and traveling a ton.
markets. the USA made a fucking fortune rebuilding Europe and Japan.
its always about cash. america is a war profiteering corporation.
so markets and denying the 19th century mandarins in Moscow a sphere of influence. if you took the isolationist or Ahem realest position in the 90s it would have lead to nuclear war.
the american imperial project has Europe as quasi-vassals.
Let me assure you that when they don’t know you’re American, they -always- talk shit about Americans. I’ve been gaming with Euros for the past 2 years, no voice comms and they always talk shit about the US and how great they have it.
Could have made every Sargeant and above a Prince, all across USSR. Implemented the Marshall Plan instead.
"Backing rubble?"
snagging all of their valuables is jogger/cyrillic country nonsense. thats not sustainable market making empire thats low iq.
That’s not how empire works. That’s a peasant brained understanding of both history and politics.
thats jogger-tier thinking, bud. no one got rich looting a target.
Not just lives, we forgave debts incurred during the war.
You're a Eurosnob.
Fuck NATO. And Fuck the UN...that is all.🐸🇺🇲
69%, nice…
Fuck most of Europe though. They leech off us for protection while their jackass citizens badmouth us every chance they get. Europeans are a good source of comedy though, I get a good laugh every time those morons talk about “free” healthcare and college. Shit ain’t free when the government steals 45-60% of your income and then slaps you with a 20% VAT on almost everything you purchase. Socialist dickheads…
North Atlantic Terror Operation
go back to your country with its fake alphabet.
We have to pay for all that protection for all those other countries so they can spend more on crappy universal Healthcare and talk shit about our inflated military budget and lack of shitty commie healthcare as if we are disgusting heathens trespassing in their cystal palaces.
Time to pull out 100% and stick to ourselves. All our old enemies are all our enemies again. This is what happens when you let bullies make you feel guilty or let them bully you.
If they won the past wars, we would have been taken over and dismantled as a nation. When we win wars, we slap em on the wrists and eventually start selling ourselves put to them. All excep japan. We got them so good they made Godzilla as a horror movie about the two black eyes we gave em.
This is why I call them Eurosnobs. They need to be called out on their bullshit, and that includes those here.
And then Republicans voted to "reaffirm" the US relationship with NATO as soon as Trump won (anyone ELSE remember that?)
Anti MAGA. The party disowned him. He was a lame duck for four years.
Wow, big spenders. Does that mean we only give them 1% to 6% of relevant protection then? Yeah, I didn't think so because we have warmongers running America.
Is it too late to go back to isolationalism?
There was always more civilian guns than government goons in the US. Why everyone has been bending over with their pants down a century, while helping communism, tranny fuckery and degeneracy spread across the world is a mystery.
Most armed country in the world, largest military, and the most cucked people who somehow believes that random Europeans practice mind control, and that apparently 104% tax rates in EU magically just vanishes so that somehow the US pays for all the "welfare"...
Something went terribly wrong in America back in 1913.
It's not to late to go back to isolationism, in fact most of the world would appreciate that.
Thougt a new pride flag dropped lmao
NATO the UN and stop being the worlds welfare system..
Money laundering via defense contracts.
You can read their faggety web page for teir mission statement. One thing they don't mention is that one of NATO's mission was/is to keep Germany in line. That pipeline didn't blow itself up.
That doesn't compute based on current reality with Russia.
NATO hasn't moved. Aside from Russia conquering its neighbors, borders haven't moved.
Some Countries have applied for membership, met the conditions, and been accepted.
There was no written agreement. Absolutely nothing binding was ever said. Your phantom statements have no evidence.
You're a Putin cocksucker. You cannot gargle hard enough for your tyrant.
That said, beginning in 2005 this war could have been prevented. That's 4 US administrations that didn't lift a finger to do so. 2 of each party.
Clearly, elected Officials are not in control of what really matters to them which is currency and war.
Diplomacy would not have meant appeasing Putin nor giving in to his demands, but diplomatic efforts were not even attempted. The logical conclusion is that DS wants war. A little education on the topic and at least part of their motive is killing as many white people as possible. And of course utter disregard for any environmental impacts, because they don't care about supposed "global warming" in the least, that's all a ruse.
Putin is a DS stooge, and he's also fully on board with Agenda 2030.
NATO is a defensive alliance to prevent USSR from swallowing up tiny Countries.
Russia is swallowing up tiny Countries.
Russia doesn't get to complain that anyone else is a threat.
Now do 2023.
I did a back of the envelope calculation once; if the 5-6 major NATO countries (Germany, France, UK etc) spent 2% GDP on Defence, they would out-spend Russia by about a factor of 7. They could easily handle Russia without US "help", for example. Methinks the there are a lot of Neocons in the US that are glad Europe isn't spending on Defense, so the US can jerk them around on foreign policy involving Russia. You can blow up a pipeline, brag about it, and tell Germany to fuck off, for example.
This is what the money is actually used for. 👆
Fuck around more and some countries will have nothing to lose, countries with nukes who would be happy to nuke DC, NY and other shit holes.
It's "defense" or fuck your Eurofag ass.
Could you imagine Europe finally having to fund its own defense for the first time in over 100 years?
They wouldn't do it. It's called Rothschild.
now do Israel funding
I imagined the euro nations as Theo from the Cosby show.
“I’ve got culture, free college and free healthcare. See? No problem!”
“There is a problem, you haven’t armed yourself yet.”
The difference is that the US army simply can't just seize civilian assets, or have civilians go fight their wars in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Irak, Syra and a whole bunch of other places. Because no civilian would allow their property to be used to go fight someone else's war.
Military budgets in Europe are lower because their armies are build solely for defense, that means:
And much like every other basement dwelling socialist, they’re the first to make fun of the people bringing home the check.
US out of NATO. Fuck those freeloaders
Europeans social welfare is mostly subsidized by US taxpayers since they literally don't have to focus anything on their military...
Fuck NATO, Eurofags, and Slopes that can't defend themselves.
Remember when Trump went to Europe and told NATO they needed to increase their defense spending? They were pissed! Fuck them the US is bankrupt.
If the US government was US taxpayer the secret service would arrest it for printing counterfeit money
Our country is like the DD's that have been sucked dry into trillions of debt that they are now concave
Notice how it's predominately historically white countries that pay the highest amounts. What a coincidence.
We should pay them in illegal aliens.
We need to get out of NATO because the reason NATO was created no longer exists and NATO should be disbanded.
Bingo 👆
And he told John Kelly to eat shit while he did it too…
That's just the monetary cost, the least important reason.
It is much more complicated than that.
You have to go back to the 1940s and FDR being quite silly.
Then the Russians invaded every country in Europe they could without Patton there to scare them off.
The Russians then occupied them for five decades.
Also, when GDP and population are taken into account, the UK, Greece and Poland are spending a lot.
The Greeks gave you many things, like elections and toga parties.
The British gave you jet engines and angled flight deck carriers and your language.
The Poles, well, maybe a potato recipe or something.
Don't know what they spend it on, but Greece supposedly has higher GDP defense spending than USA.
The real losers are Canada and Spain. Spain just sits everything out, like they did in WW2, while Canada just outsources defense to the USA like they have since the 1960s.
NATO is not the problem.
Of course many of the politicians from the NATO countries are bad people.
People do forget, the only time NATO has been activated as a military force was to defend the USA in 2001.
If you got rid of NATO tomorrow, the USA would still have treaties with most of the countries from it anyway.
Anyway, without NATO, the USA would have to pay for the entire F-35 program itself. Nobody knows where they land, or where the price settles on those things.
Soviets not Russians, Stalin was Georgian, most Soviet Premier’s were Ukrainian. The only fault of that conquering due to the Russians was them paying for it with their blood (90 percent of Soviet casualties were Russian)
We don't need f-35s
More F-22s would have been good.
The notion that NATO defended the US is utter insanity.
You're talking about the "coalition of the willing," by W Bush.
US was never at risk.
FDR wasn't silly, he was a fucking communist, destroying the US from the inside.
Not quite.
And you think that "defended the US?"
Remind me, how much combat did they encounter?
Just make this chart the nato flag.
Couldn’t be more obvious we’re still the colonies
Neato, I wonder who started the war
If we didn't make up NATO to make those shithole coutnries feel good we'd have to pay for it all btw