The roman empire was 31 bce when Augustus took over and ended 535 when Justintine invaded Italy and many of the other failed Roman lands and broke the illusion to the people that they were Roman.
The old capital fell to a coup in 476, but was arguably already fallen since the only difference between Odoacer's coup and the previous few was that he didn't see a need to prop up a puppet emperor to legetimize his rule like the last few conquerors did. And there's another modern parallel, look at the puppet sitting in the White House.
But that wasn't the end. Constantine had moved the capital back in 330AD and the empire endured in the east all the way until 1453, when the last Emperor died fighting on the walls against muslim invaders. Tradition states that he wore a common soldier's armor, so they wouldn't try to capture him, and his body was identified after the battle.
I'm fine with BC or BCE it irrelevant to me as it just an arbitrary divide of the eras that suppose be be base of Jesus birth but it off by about a decade. Furthermore the fall of Rome is also cloudy I consider when the western people stop acknowledging themselves as roman they actual death date of the empire which is when the Byzantine invaded Italy. I don't like the German sacking of Rome as the Date since technically that happen earlier with the visogoths but people still consider Rome alive and well after that occured.
Most will cover the Republic and the Julio-Claudians well, then gloss over everything until Trajen, then Constantine, then skip everything til the fall of the West and ignore the East.
For a good outline of everything, with copious sources, check this out:
Just be warned, this site is a deep rabbithole with many branches. You'll start with Rome and end up also reading about Punics, Visgoths, Bulgars, various claimed successor states, the weirdness of naming conventions, etc.
Also, there's a cool time-lapse map of Rome repeatedly expanding and contracting:
2000+ years of crisis and rebuilding. Even after the fall of Constantinople in 1453, the last fragment on the southern tip of Greece expands a bit before getting snuffed.
Then you have the Eatern Roman Empire,aka the Byzantine Empire, which survived the collapse of 395 by 1000 years, only to fall to the Ottoman muslim turks
Correct. 395 was not the collapse but the split of the Roman Empire. While the western part with the city of Rome collapsed within 80 years thereafter, the Byzantine Empire with the capital of Constantinople lasted for another roughly 1000 years.
After Rome fell to German Barbs many of the people in Italy, France, Britian and Iberia still consider themselves Roman so I disagree with the 395 fall, it was when the Byzantine invaded Italy that people started considering themselves no longer roman in the west. If you just go by Rome is sack and territory lost to Barbarians then 410 would be the first example but it not because the visigoth just consider themselves roman just under local administration.
The Byzantines still considered themselves Roman and saw themselves as reconquering lands lost by the Western Emperor, though. And they managed to take back all of Italy, most of North Africa, and part of southern Spain before Justinian's plague ended their expansion. So Italy didn't really stop being Roman until Lombard expansion took most of it away, and the city Rome didn't break away from the Eastern Empire until the Pope crowned Charlemagne in exchange for protection from the Lombards.
Sure. Roman citizenship came with benefits.
Imagine the US to split into two in a civil war- people would still considering themselves Americans, so there's that.
Most historians put the Fall of Rome in 410 A.D. when Alaric sacked Rome. Alaric was probably carrying on an affair with the sister of the Roman emperor at the time, Honoria.
Augustus Caesar AKA Octavius (63 BC to 14 AD) was the Roman emperor for a bit more than thirty years. He became the Roman Emperor by subduing the other members of the Triumvirate, Marc Antony in particular, in a naval battle. The Triumvirate arose after Brutus and Cassius along with the Praetorian Guard murdered Julius Caesar. The best account of this is probably not Shakespeare's play but the life of Julius Caesar by Plutarch.
Thucydides dates the end of the Roman Republic under Augustus when a Senator and his family were hanged in broad daylight. Rome had a law in which a minor, under the age of 12, who was also a Roman Citizen couldn't not be punished by Capital punishment if that minor was a virgin. One of the Senators daughters fit this requirement so the executioner raped her in front of the people so that she might be hanged along with her family. Thucydides in the Annals of Imperial Rome says this is what ended the Republic because the law was there specifically to prevent the outrage of hanging an entire family in broad daylight yet it was used as a legalism to hang the entire family. Thucydides also mentions that never before was a noble patrician family, headed by a senator, treated in such a disreputable manner.
Augustus was succeeded by Tiberius (ruled 14 AD to 37 AD) who long reign and was far more debauched than Augustus. He was a pedophile. His Praetorian Guard would kidnap good looking boys and hold them captive in one of his garden palaces for the pleasure of Tiberius and his debauched friends. One of the boys taken to the palace and used, was the son of his arch rival Germanicus. The boy's name is known to us in history as Caligula (37 AD - 41 AD) which means little boots. The people of Rome hated Tiberius and knew of his debauchment and pedophilia and the nobles tried to hide their young sons from Tiberius and his cabal.
When Caligula ascended the thrown, The Roman people loved him because they thought he'd be a good man like his father, Germanicus. However Caligula was unstable, vengeful and cruel. Yet, in the beginning he was hailed by the Roman people who got out in the streets and cheered him.
Nero (54-68) killed his step brother Britannicus in order to ascend the thrown. No one has anything good to say about Nero, but the first of many Christian persecution happened under Nero. Nero thought he was a great artist inspired by the muses. Thucydides says that Nero started the great Roman fire that burned most of Rome, played the fiddle in his palace while Rome burned and then blamed it on the Christians. Prior to Nero's persecution of Christians, Judaism and christianity were considered the same faith by most Roman and Greeks. After the fire, Jews kicked Christians out of synagogues and turned them in.
Two years after Nero, Diocletian finishes the subjugation of Israel and Judea and destroys the temple of Solomon. Diocletian starts his subjugation with his son, the General Titus, after the burning of Rome.
St Augustine puts the end of the Roman empire in his book City of God, before Alaric sacked Rome.
The phrase "Rome didn't fall in a day" is because so many great writers put the fall of Rome at any number of events leading toward the end and ascribes various different reasons.
The classics to read on the subject are probably:
Thucydides The Annals of Imperial Rome.
City of God by St. Augustine
Edward Gibbon's the Decline and Fall of Ancient Rome.
Although I have mad respect for Edward Gibbon and his account of the Fall of Rome, Gibbon is writing several Centuries after the Reformation and after the first major wave of Enlightenment thinkers. The Enlightenment thinkers at that point were bogged down by two historical events that they can't really get outside their own box to think about. The first is the Protestant Reformation which was actually extremely bloody in it's immediate aftermath and for the first time, common ordinary people were killed, not by raiders, enemy kings or for committing crimes but because of what they believed. The first actual totalitarian state was probably Geneva Switzerland under John Calvin. Calvin gave us the wonderful (sarcasm) institution known as the gestapo. The second major event was the the French Revolution which led to all sorts of socialist theories springing forward from intellectuals all over Europe and spooked the heck out of the nobles and aristocrats. I would doubt Marx would have ever wrote Das Kapitol or the Communist Manifesto or find an audience had it not been for the French Revolution. Gibbon is writing at about this time, so of course like a good little atheistic second wave Enlightenment thinker, he blames Christianity for the Fall of Rome because Christians wouldn't worship the state sponsored Roman and Greek gods, endorses a type of secular humanism and predicts the modern downfall of Christianity because it's backward.
The end of the Roman Republic is usually given with the rise of the Triumvirate of Augustus Caesar. The end of the Imperial Roman empire is 410 AD with the sacking of Rome by the barbarian, Alaric. The beginning of the Holy Roman Empire is usually given as Christmas Day, 800 AD when Charlemagne is crowned emperor by the Pope. Some say the Empire of Byzantium is the true heir of the Roman Empire and should be considered part of the Roman Empire. I don't really agree with this because the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire are not the same thing in many ways, the most significant being the Capital of Roman Empire was Rome and the Capital of the Byzantium empire was Constantinople, modern day Istanbul.
However, due to western indifference to Byzantium, for a couple of centuries now, Islamic civilization has been able to pretend that the achievements of Byzantium were actually the achievements of Islamic.civilization. The architectural dome, arches, and such were not Islamic achievements but Byzantium achievements. Specifically, most of it was done under Julian the Apostate.
Had the Great Schism of 1054 not divided Christianity and struck a blow right into the heart of Christendom, there would probably be more education and understanding of Byzantine culture but the cleaving of the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches led to a mutual disinterest and distrust between Christians. A mistake Christianity also makes today in the western developed nations in the aftermath of the Protestant Reformation.
I wouldn't call it a false equivalency based on the time. The spread of information is infinitely faster now than in Rome. Because of this and modern technology, people are able to see the bullshit in real time, with their own eyes (if they want to). So with out a doubt, it is going to happen faster, but it really doesn't change the comparison.
I'm with you; actually I was being ironic, poking at the speed of western decay. Yes, things happen way faster these days. Which is not necessarily a plus imho.
After the death of emperor Theodosius 1st the Roman Empire split into two in 395 AD, so I stick with that date. While Byzantine (the eastern part) with capital Constantinople lasted on for quite some time, the western part with the City of Rome collapsed quickly.
Please notice the comments discussing the historical accuracy of your comment that fail to grasp the actual meaning of your point. It's disheartening to see the relative young age at which our nation has fallen prey to malevolent outside influences directed at the very core of our beliefs and the lack of understanding of it's citizens know of it's methodologies. Distracting the populace? Not focusing on the above, as shown here, is just one example of how easy it is.
This posts was more about how women don’t think of the things their husbands think of.
One post was about how she’s surprised her husband has disaster plans he constantly updates in his head
Women are stupid. I say this as a woman. Women do not tend to think philosophically or about security issues.
I think about Rome all of the time. I think about safety all of the time.
Women are a evolutionary protected class. We’ve been protected so long, we don’t get what it takes to build a society. Which is why female led societies crumble.
The type of people you need to start building a society are the ones pushed to the lower classes near the end. Its incredibly ironic.
I used to blame the people for getting pushed but I realize since it’s multigenerational they never get the confidence to know they are that capable and instead trust the system
The lower class we have today has never existed before. Everything is so easy and abundant now relative to the past that nowadays peasants live like kings used too.
For the first time ever humanity has not only lost our survival of the fittest barrier where only the strongest, smartest, and most dedicated survive, but we have complete reversed it. We are at the point we’re the dumbest and laziest not only survive but thrive and multiply, all at the cost of the strongest who have to foot the bill and in turn do not multiply.
You may see leaders come from the middle class in the era to come, and certainly many will, but very few will come from the poorest class. As nearly all those in the lowest class are there due to utter incompetence, laziness, or indifference, all traits that are antithetical to great leaders.
Men think about things, about how things work, about how to defend, to survive, to achieve. Because if a man doesn't do those things, he knows he's not worth anything. A man knows his value is in making things work and keeping things working. And the Roman Empire made things work way better than they should have, for almost a thousand years. Why wouldn't men think about it? What can we learn? How can I take what they did, and make it work for me?
Can I say, as a man, I fucking love you and thank you for saying women are stupid. Said another way, women are retards with boobs.
Okay, serious time, women are wired differently and have base instincts on the level of fear, which leads women to want security, through resources or strength.
You're 100% right, women are an evolutionary protected class. The modern woman in modern history is the species that has won the struggles of the past. You no longer need to fear being raped by an invading force, or losing property because it's a man's world, or being dragged into a cave because of unga bunga reasons. The 3rd world does exist and these problems still exist for those cultures, but in the modern 1st world, women are 100% the winners of all fucking benefits and have little responsibility or accountability for keeping civilization together.
I'm married and have three children, but my wife does not think about disaster plans. She's more concerned about how I drag in leaves and make the house dirty and complains she can't keep a house clean when my worries are making sure there's a house to clean lol.
I’m a woman and think about the fall of Rome, too. And Vatican II is really on my mind. A rapid decline in culture happened after the Vatican Council II happened. I think about these things and yes, I’m single.
I wonder if I can shoehorn another morning pinned post into yet another childish tirade around my paranoia surrounding a particular minority religion. Blah blah blah. Here's a fraudulent emotional appeal to Christians to hide my true intentions. Those who are easy to name, but I play the victim NOTICE ME!!! 🤕
You never did answer this, btw, but again, heres a few questions:
Why did zionists prevent aid from america to concentration camp victims during ww2? Why was a man named joel brand prevented from trading 1,000,000 millions for 10,000 american trucks in british controlled palestine? Why did kastner send 400,000 hungarian jews to concentration camps but spared 1400 when there were some family members of his?
You can find all that out in "Holocaust Victims Accuse," "Perfidy," and "Desperare Mission." Maybe somewhere those books will explain why zionists hate jews so much.
Props for taking on the latest active JIDF shill account. Someone always should so their pilpul bullshit doesn't go unopposed, but it's hard to drum up the motivation since you just know the responses will always be sophistry and nonsense (and in the case of this particular retard, constant little gay emoticons). Either way, your comments are appreciated.
Those arent answers to my questions. If it helps, jews arent the only ones involved. Rockefellers, the gates, british royalty, the dulles brothers etc arent jews but all of them are going along the same path. Have you ever heard of blanqui? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Auguste_Blanqui
This is two consecutive comments now that must be manually reviewed. I'm blacklisting you because you are unhinged and obsessed with your single topic 🍼
What does being manually reviewed mean? And all you seem to do is blister without an answer to my questions, and i just gave you even more info about different people who have shaped the world into how it is today. Also, my "single topic" also includes a different form or tactic of communism made by a french dude. Theres also the fact that marx was commissioned to create the communist manifesto by englishmen. So heres a third consecutive topic that needs to be "manually reviewed."
It means he’s a shill that’s boting most of his responses with ai, and when the ai can’t answer your questions because the ai isn’t allowed to answer those questions, he has to stop eating Cheetos and drinking Sprite to actually do what those you speak of pay him to do.
Then he says NOTICE ME, because he’s gay and wants attention.
It means you said the J-word and your post was automatically removed so that a mod could make sure you weren't talking bad about they who cannot be named.
But in any case, don't waste too much energy trying to get an answer out of pandafag. He's a single topic poster who spends all day whining about seeing not sees everywhere he looks and probably didn't even vote for Trump.
Manual review means you are a single topic user hellbent on discussing your single topic. This isn't a debate. I suggest you learn to write like an adult in a MAGA forum or be shadow censored like a screaming child 🍼
Here's some links to forums where your special interest is both encouraged and a foundational belief of a greater ideology
Go be an American Christian National Fascist or an American White National Fascist. It doesn't matter, because it will never be part of Trump's platform, the MAGA platform, the Republican party, or even remotely right wing 😂
This man is incredibly aware and discerning. And yet...
How many so-called educated, successful, upwardly-mobile people would dismiss him without a second thought based on his appearance, his home, his accent, etc.?
It's amazing the actual diversity (and its strength) is in the awakened population! Not the woke population.
The people who'd dismiss him on surface details, would dismiss any argument he had that disagreed with their worldview. The whole point of indoctrination isn't just to fill their head with a bunch of nonsense in order to control them; it's to make them incurious to any information contrary to that control. That's why they're programmed with a ton of triggers that are meant to shut down rational thought and create an emotional tirade so that they never question their beliefs.
Only the people on the borderline can be possibly brought back from the brink; the rest are a totally lost cause and the best you can do is marginalize them.
Only the people on the borderline can be possibly brought back from the brink; the rest are a totally lost cause and the best you can do is marginalize them.
I agree with most of what you said, except what I quoted above. I think there are more who can be saved - many more. Even many of those who are currently fully indoctrinated. But your first paragraph describes exactly why it will be a difficult, and traumatic for them, process.
The programming can be broken, but it will take time, repetition, patience and compassion.
I don't want us to give up on even one single soul. Some will be totally lost, but I hope all discerning warriors for freedom and light will still fight for them anyway. I truly believe we'll all be shocked at how many will begin to awaken. We cannot give up on them. We just can't.
I'll concede easily that you're far more optimistic than I am, but I think that you misunderstood what I meant; possibly because of my phrasing.
Indoctrination is not a binary state: there are subtle shades along the way as one's ego is replaced with a mere puppet to something they don't truly understand. Up to a certain point, they can be brought back with varying success, and the question becomes how much effort you want to expend on an effort you'll very likely never be thanked or remunerated for; I suppose it depends on how selflessly compassionate you are, and I'll grant without question that you'd be far more willing to undertake that than me.
Still, that having been said, I think we can both agree to varying degrees of distaste that there are those who are truly lost, and for whom no amount of true reconciliation can be reached. The longer they've been indoctrinated, the more calcified the set of false beliefs, ideas, and facts is in their minds, and most importantly the more their sense of self-worth and personal prosperity is based upon the ideology, the more the person vanishes beyond the threshold that they can't be recalled from.
For example, take the person who got one of those useless activist degrees in college, who now makes their living by working for a community activism group funded by wealthy Elite interests, who acts as a sort of sheep-herder for the Black Bloc/BLM/Antifa mobs that sow domestic terror; the ones that you can see in any such event if you keep an eye out for them, the ones that typically stand in the back with a bullhorn and/or other communication devices. Depending on how exposed they act, they might already have a rap sheet for all the times they got snagged in the dragnets. Do you really see that person trying to make a radically different life for themselves? No, more than likely they'll refuse, because the alternative is probably a retail job that they'll never get because of the criminal record. Like a Made Man from the Mafia, they're in too deep to truly get out.
These people are lost causes, pure and simple, but the upside is that they're almost certainly a small percentage of the overall gestalt left as we know it. I agree that many can be brought back, because many are more than likely just going through the motions out of fear of social pressure and ostracization. When the veil is lifted and people once again feel they can speak and act freely, I truly wouldn't be surprised if >80% of what we see as the radical left vanishes overnight and says as much openly, and they become a big part of the solution of finishing off the work of returning to normalcy; some of them might take longer to recover, but they can do so organically without any intervention. The rest will probably take some work on a local level, but eventually since all of this ideology is largely a fad, social mores will fix it and people close to them can do the rest.
To pretend we can save them ALL, however, is bordering on hopelessly naive; it's a sad truth, but you can't save everyone, no matter how hard you try. The ones that remain unrepentant must be pushed to the margins so that they can't sneak back into the places of influence to begin this cycle anew; our complacency and misplaced compassion is what's allowed this to happen in the first place, and thinking that everyone can be redeemed is how we'd just be pushing this down the road for a generation. It's a hard notion, to be sure, but when you consider what's at stake, it's a necessary one.
To pretend we can save them ALL, however, is bordering on hopelessly naive; it's a sad truth, but you can't save everyone, no matter how hard you try. The ones that remain unrepentant must be pushed to the margins so that they can't sneak back into the places of influence to begin this cycle anew; our complacency and misplaced compassion is what's allowed this to happen in the first place, and thinking that everyone can be redeemed is how we'd just be pushing this down the road for a generation. It's a hard notion, to be sure, but when you consider what's at stake, it's a necessary one.
Certainly there are those who are wholly evil. They are gone. They will pay the wages of their sins now or later, in this plane or the next. Hopefully both.
And there are those who, if they open up to awakening, will be filled with overwhelming remorse at what they've done to themselves or their loved ones. Parents who've jabbed their children come to mind. Therefore, they simply cannot/will not acknowledge or fight their programming because if they did, they would have to own up to their own monstrous deeds. That's a big ask.
But...
There are those out there who seem truly beyond reach who may yet be awakened. Saved. It will be a long, arduous journey. Not linear by any means. They will fight it for so many reasons. And, again, some will choose to remain programmed rather than confront what they've become or what they've done.
I believe those who have discernment have been blessed. Why can some people see through the lies and propaganda while others swallow it whole? Although sometimes it may seem more of a burden than a gift, those who are already awakened are rich in ways the sheep cannot comprehend.
With the gift comes responsibility. Can everyone be saved? No. Should we still fight for those who can be? Yes.
I guarantee you that she really isn't even listening. In her head, this is all funny and and dorky. Hence why she continues shoving a camera in his face. She just wants that TikTok video.
You could be living in a trailer in rural America and your woman is still a vapid moron.
I didn’t know this was a thing. My g/f asked me a few days ago out if the blue if I ever thought about the Roman Empire and of course I said yes for the same reason this guy mentioned, I could certainly read more about it, but I guess there’s a meme going around that all guys think about the Roman Empire fairly often. She was testing me.
This guy has about a 3rd grade understanding of the Roman Empire. 1/3 of the capital city's population were slaves, so no, Rome DID NOT have some progressive woke agenda.
Did you guys know Livy was writing about how it was all circling the drain, and there were another 3 centuries of wealth and glory to go after he died?
There are a ton of parallels, and I enjoy calling us Rome 2.0, but there are some unique traits still.
We do have usury/ debt issues that you could consider many people to be indentured servants. You can almost argue that 1913 was the official time we became an empire. Or 1864, where it was southern elites trying to create a caribbean slave empire vs the northern empire using the south as a quasi colony for their raw resources.
For Livy, i think theres a volume called the collapse of western civ, published i think in the 60s.
And since our stories have sucked for 10+ years, our "gladiators" all take knees, and bud light is for troons the whole "bread and circus" plan isn't really viable
Bread and circuses.
Crack and KFC.
Kek
Bud Lite and Taylor Swift
anime and chicken tindies
Soy and Buttsex
ketamine and sexual assault
they dun be luvin it
Carcasses
^^^^^
Panem et circenses
Comparsion is flawed. Rome lasted 900 years, we are facing collapse after a mere 250 years.
You're using a false equivalence. Rome, the Roman Empire, and the Holy Roman Empire were all different.
Didn't even account for Holy Roman Empire nor Roman Kingdom. Roman Republic and Roman Empire alone constitutes 900 years.
Thanks for the additions. I was going by pure memory. I had forgotten about the Roman Republic. That was prior to their fall into the Roman empire.
There was also the overthrown roman monarchy that existed before the republic that everyone forgets and was poorly documented.
The roman empire was 31 bce when Augustus took over and ended 535 when Justintine invaded Italy and many of the other failed Roman lands and broke the illusion to the people that they were Roman.
Rome was founded in 500 BC and fell in 476 AD. It's BC, not BCE, unless you're a "progressive" faggot of course.
The old capital fell to a coup in 476, but was arguably already fallen since the only difference between Odoacer's coup and the previous few was that he didn't see a need to prop up a puppet emperor to legetimize his rule like the last few conquerors did. And there's another modern parallel, look at the puppet sitting in the White House.
But that wasn't the end. Constantine had moved the capital back in 330AD and the empire endured in the east all the way until 1453, when the last Emperor died fighting on the walls against muslim invaders. Tradition states that he wore a common soldier's armor, so they wouldn't try to capture him, and his body was identified after the battle.
I'm fine with BC or BCE it irrelevant to me as it just an arbitrary divide of the eras that suppose be be base of Jesus birth but it off by about a decade. Furthermore the fall of Rome is also cloudy I consider when the western people stop acknowledging themselves as roman they actual death date of the empire which is when the Byzantine invaded Italy. I don't like the German sacking of Rome as the Date since technically that happen earlier with the visogoths but people still consider Rome alive and well after that occured.
Or you can, as I do, consider the Church of Rome to be an extension of the Roman Empire. Which would put the Roman Empire at abt 2500 years old.
Would be less then 2500 years since Rome for the majority of it existence was hellenic pagans
• Roman Republic: 509 BC - 27 BC
• Roman Empire: 27 BC - 395 AD
that's a whooping 904 years of Golden Age
What's the best Rome 101 book(s) for those just starting to learn about it?
check these podcasts and articles
• The truth about the fall of Rome (podcast)
• http://www.internationalman.com/articles/decline-of-empire-parallels-between-the-us-and-rome-part-i
• https://dailyhistory.org/What_Role_Did_Inflation_Play_in_the_Collapse_of_the_Roman_Empire
SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome https://a.co/d/7ajrAxp
That’s considered one of the best books on Rome
Most will cover the Republic and the Julio-Claudians well, then gloss over everything until Trajen, then Constantine, then skip everything til the fall of the West and ignore the East.
For a good outline of everything, with copious sources, check this out:
https://www.friesian.com/romania.htm
Just be warned, this site is a deep rabbithole with many branches. You'll start with Rome and end up also reading about Punics, Visgoths, Bulgars, various claimed successor states, the weirdness of naming conventions, etc.
Also, there's a cool time-lapse map of Rome repeatedly expanding and contracting:
https://www.friesian.com/images/maps/rome-big.gif
2000+ years of crisis and rebuilding. Even after the fall of Constantinople in 1453, the last fragment on the southern tip of Greece expands a bit before getting snuffed.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/25717/25717-h/25717-h.htm
History: Fiction or Science by Fomenko, if you DARE. But your life will never be the same if it clicks for you
Then you have the Eatern Roman Empire,aka the Byzantine Empire, which survived the collapse of 395 by 1000 years, only to fall to the Ottoman muslim turks
Correct. 395 was not the collapse but the split of the Roman Empire. While the western part with the city of Rome collapsed within 80 years thereafter, the Byzantine Empire with the capital of Constantinople lasted for another roughly 1000 years.
Yeah, but for some reason people like to just gloss over the 1000+ years when Rome was a Christian empire.
After Rome fell to German Barbs many of the people in Italy, France, Britian and Iberia still consider themselves Roman so I disagree with the 395 fall, it was when the Byzantine invaded Italy that people started considering themselves no longer roman in the west. If you just go by Rome is sack and territory lost to Barbarians then 410 would be the first example but it not because the visigoth just consider themselves roman just under local administration.
The Byzantines still considered themselves Roman and saw themselves as reconquering lands lost by the Western Emperor, though. And they managed to take back all of Italy, most of North Africa, and part of southern Spain before Justinian's plague ended their expansion. So Italy didn't really stop being Roman until Lombard expansion took most of it away, and the city Rome didn't break away from the Eastern Empire until the Pope crowned Charlemagne in exchange for protection from the Lombards.
Sure. Roman citizenship came with benefits. Imagine the US to split into two in a civil war- people would still considering themselves Americans, so there's that.
BCE = Before the Christian Era
Things moved a lot slower when you had to walk, ride a horse, get in a rowed or sailed ship to go anywhere.
sadly, BCE stands for Before Common Era because they want to erase Christ (plot twist, it isn't going to work)
Which is why I assert it stands for Before the Christian Era every chance I get.
thumbs up on the clarification
and, cheers to that!
Most historians put the Fall of Rome in 410 A.D. when Alaric sacked Rome. Alaric was probably carrying on an affair with the sister of the Roman emperor at the time, Honoria.
Augustus Caesar AKA Octavius (63 BC to 14 AD) was the Roman emperor for a bit more than thirty years. He became the Roman Emperor by subduing the other members of the Triumvirate, Marc Antony in particular, in a naval battle. The Triumvirate arose after Brutus and Cassius along with the Praetorian Guard murdered Julius Caesar. The best account of this is probably not Shakespeare's play but the life of Julius Caesar by Plutarch.
Thucydides dates the end of the Roman Republic under Augustus when a Senator and his family were hanged in broad daylight. Rome had a law in which a minor, under the age of 12, who was also a Roman Citizen couldn't not be punished by Capital punishment if that minor was a virgin. One of the Senators daughters fit this requirement so the executioner raped her in front of the people so that she might be hanged along with her family. Thucydides in the Annals of Imperial Rome says this is what ended the Republic because the law was there specifically to prevent the outrage of hanging an entire family in broad daylight yet it was used as a legalism to hang the entire family. Thucydides also mentions that never before was a noble patrician family, headed by a senator, treated in such a disreputable manner.
Augustus was succeeded by Tiberius (ruled 14 AD to 37 AD) who long reign and was far more debauched than Augustus. He was a pedophile. His Praetorian Guard would kidnap good looking boys and hold them captive in one of his garden palaces for the pleasure of Tiberius and his debauched friends. One of the boys taken to the palace and used, was the son of his arch rival Germanicus. The boy's name is known to us in history as Caligula (37 AD - 41 AD) which means little boots. The people of Rome hated Tiberius and knew of his debauchment and pedophilia and the nobles tried to hide their young sons from Tiberius and his cabal.
When Caligula ascended the thrown, The Roman people loved him because they thought he'd be a good man like his father, Germanicus. However Caligula was unstable, vengeful and cruel. Yet, in the beginning he was hailed by the Roman people who got out in the streets and cheered him.
Nero (54-68) killed his step brother Britannicus in order to ascend the thrown. No one has anything good to say about Nero, but the first of many Christian persecution happened under Nero. Nero thought he was a great artist inspired by the muses. Thucydides says that Nero started the great Roman fire that burned most of Rome, played the fiddle in his palace while Rome burned and then blamed it on the Christians. Prior to Nero's persecution of Christians, Judaism and christianity were considered the same faith by most Roman and Greeks. After the fire, Jews kicked Christians out of synagogues and turned them in.
Two years after Nero, Diocletian finishes the subjugation of Israel and Judea and destroys the temple of Solomon. Diocletian starts his subjugation with his son, the General Titus, after the burning of Rome.
St Augustine puts the end of the Roman empire in his book City of God, before Alaric sacked Rome.
The phrase "Rome didn't fall in a day" is because so many great writers put the fall of Rome at any number of events leading toward the end and ascribes various different reasons.
The classics to read on the subject are probably:
Although I have mad respect for Edward Gibbon and his account of the Fall of Rome, Gibbon is writing several Centuries after the Reformation and after the first major wave of Enlightenment thinkers. The Enlightenment thinkers at that point were bogged down by two historical events that they can't really get outside their own box to think about. The first is the Protestant Reformation which was actually extremely bloody in it's immediate aftermath and for the first time, common ordinary people were killed, not by raiders, enemy kings or for committing crimes but because of what they believed. The first actual totalitarian state was probably Geneva Switzerland under John Calvin. Calvin gave us the wonderful (sarcasm) institution known as the gestapo. The second major event was the the French Revolution which led to all sorts of socialist theories springing forward from intellectuals all over Europe and spooked the heck out of the nobles and aristocrats. I would doubt Marx would have ever wrote Das Kapitol or the Communist Manifesto or find an audience had it not been for the French Revolution. Gibbon is writing at about this time, so of course like a good little atheistic second wave Enlightenment thinker, he blames Christianity for the Fall of Rome because Christians wouldn't worship the state sponsored Roman and Greek gods, endorses a type of secular humanism and predicts the modern downfall of Christianity because it's backward.
The end of the Roman Republic is usually given with the rise of the Triumvirate of Augustus Caesar. The end of the Imperial Roman empire is 410 AD with the sacking of Rome by the barbarian, Alaric. The beginning of the Holy Roman Empire is usually given as Christmas Day, 800 AD when Charlemagne is crowned emperor by the Pope. Some say the Empire of Byzantium is the true heir of the Roman Empire and should be considered part of the Roman Empire. I don't really agree with this because the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire are not the same thing in many ways, the most significant being the Capital of Roman Empire was Rome and the Capital of the Byzantium empire was Constantinople, modern day Istanbul.
However, due to western indifference to Byzantium, for a couple of centuries now, Islamic civilization has been able to pretend that the achievements of Byzantium were actually the achievements of Islamic.civilization. The architectural dome, arches, and such were not Islamic achievements but Byzantium achievements. Specifically, most of it was done under Julian the Apostate.
Had the Great Schism of 1054 not divided Christianity and struck a blow right into the heart of Christendom, there would probably be more education and understanding of Byzantine culture but the cleaving of the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches led to a mutual disinterest and distrust between Christians. A mistake Christianity also makes today in the western developed nations in the aftermath of the Protestant Reformation.
Don’t use “BCE”, it makes you look like a faggot loser.
Don't get your panties tied up in your asshole over an E
It’s what that E means and who created it, but I’m sure being a liberal as you are you love it. So fuck off loser.
We've stagnated since the 60s imo
Rome is still there today!
Well yeah but they weren't the same during the entire time. The Roman Republic wasn't the Roman empire
I wouldn't call it a false equivalency based on the time. The spread of information is infinitely faster now than in Rome. Because of this and modern technology, people are able to see the bullshit in real time, with their own eyes (if they want to). So with out a doubt, it is going to happen faster, but it really doesn't change the comparison.
I'm with you; actually I was being ironic, poking at the speed of western decay. Yes, things happen way faster these days. Which is not necessarily a plus imho.
Also there is no reason to trust ancient historians. There are political reasons to lie about how long someone's reign lasted.
The Roman Empire fell with Constantinople in 1453
Constantinople fell twice before 1453, the first was by the Crusaders
Yes, and both times the shattered remains were able to take it back and rebuild. 1453 was different because the remnants were all finished off.
After the death of emperor Theodosius 1st the Roman Empire split into two in 395 AD, so I stick with that date. While Byzantine (the eastern part) with capital Constantinople lasted on for quite some time, the western part with the City of Rome collapsed quickly.
Please notice the comments discussing the historical accuracy of your comment that fail to grasp the actual meaning of your point. It's disheartening to see the relative young age at which our nation has fallen prey to malevolent outside influences directed at the very core of our beliefs and the lack of understanding of it's citizens know of it's methodologies. Distracting the populace? Not focusing on the above, as shown here, is just one example of how easy it is.
But it wasn't like that from the earliest days of Rome. It only got like that pretty late
I wrote about this.
This posts was more about how women don’t think of the things their husbands think of.
One post was about how she’s surprised her husband has disaster plans he constantly updates in his head
Women are stupid. I say this as a woman. Women do not tend to think philosophically or about security issues.
I think about Rome all of the time. I think about safety all of the time.
Women are a evolutionary protected class. We’ve been protected so long, we don’t get what it takes to build a society. Which is why female led societies crumble.
The type of people you need to start building a society are the ones pushed to the lower classes near the end. Its incredibly ironic.
I used to blame the people for getting pushed but I realize since it’s multigenerational they never get the confidence to know they are that capable and instead trust the system
The lower class we have today has never existed before. Everything is so easy and abundant now relative to the past that nowadays peasants live like kings used too.
For the first time ever humanity has not only lost our survival of the fittest barrier where only the strongest, smartest, and most dedicated survive, but we have complete reversed it. We are at the point we’re the dumbest and laziest not only survive but thrive and multiply, all at the cost of the strongest who have to foot the bill and in turn do not multiply.
You may see leaders come from the middle class in the era to come, and certainly many will, but very few will come from the poorest class. As nearly all those in the lowest class are there due to utter incompetence, laziness, or indifference, all traits that are antithetical to great leaders.
The middle class is the lowest class. Least return on their work effort b
That’s why we need to nip our downfall in the bud before our children or their children don’t know freedom.
Nip? Lol. I say accelerate it.
And when the system finally comes tumbling down, those people are the survivors who build something new.
Men think about things, about how things work, about how to defend, to survive, to achieve. Because if a man doesn't do those things, he knows he's not worth anything. A man knows his value is in making things work and keeping things working. And the Roman Empire made things work way better than they should have, for almost a thousand years. Why wouldn't men think about it? What can we learn? How can I take what they did, and make it work for me?
Can I say, as a man, I fucking love you and thank you for saying women are stupid. Said another way, women are retards with boobs.
Okay, serious time, women are wired differently and have base instincts on the level of fear, which leads women to want security, through resources or strength.
You're 100% right, women are an evolutionary protected class. The modern woman in modern history is the species that has won the struggles of the past. You no longer need to fear being raped by an invading force, or losing property because it's a man's world, or being dragged into a cave because of unga bunga reasons. The 3rd world does exist and these problems still exist for those cultures, but in the modern 1st world, women are 100% the winners of all fucking benefits and have little responsibility or accountability for keeping civilization together.
I'm married and have three children, but my wife does not think about disaster plans. She's more concerned about how I drag in leaves and make the house dirty and complains she can't keep a house clean when my worries are making sure there's a house to clean lol.
Different roles, equal importance.
I also think about those things quite often. But I’m a “weird” woman.
I’m a woman and think about the fall of Rome, too. And Vatican II is really on my mind. A rapid decline in culture happened after the Vatican Council II happened. I think about these things and yes, I’m single.
Hey sis. We aren’t all out here vapid with titties.
BOYS, SOUND THE HORNS
SHE'S AVAILABLE! LINE UP AND COURT THIS LADY PEDE!
Haha. I’m too old. I’m celibate now. I’m Catholic, so the ship has sailed on sex. I’d rather have the communion wafer than a man.
You're saying words like Catholic and sex, but repeating yourself. Lol.
Ftfy
You never did answer this, btw, but again, heres a few questions:
Why did zionists prevent aid from america to concentration camp victims during ww2? Why was a man named joel brand prevented from trading 1,000,000 millions for 10,000 american trucks in british controlled palestine? Why did kastner send 400,000 hungarian jews to concentration camps but spared 1400 when there were some family members of his?
You can find all that out in "Holocaust Victims Accuse," "Perfidy," and "Desperare Mission." Maybe somewhere those books will explain why zionists hate jews so much.
Props for taking on the latest active JIDF shill account. Someone always should so their pilpul bullshit doesn't go unopposed, but it's hard to drum up the motivation since you just know the responses will always be sophistry and nonsense (and in the case of this particular retard, constant little gay emoticons). Either way, your comments are appreciated.
You are so hopelessly immature, that your response has to be manually reviewed. Congratulations on creating even more problems. NOTICE ME
Those arent answers to my questions. If it helps, jews arent the only ones involved. Rockefellers, the gates, british royalty, the dulles brothers etc arent jews but all of them are going along the same path. Have you ever heard of blanqui? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Auguste_Blanqui
This is two consecutive comments now that must be manually reviewed. I'm blacklisting you because you are unhinged and obsessed with your single topic 🍼
NOTICE ME
What does being manually reviewed mean? And all you seem to do is blister without an answer to my questions, and i just gave you even more info about different people who have shaped the world into how it is today. Also, my "single topic" also includes a different form or tactic of communism made by a french dude. Theres also the fact that marx was commissioned to create the communist manifesto by englishmen. So heres a third consecutive topic that needs to be "manually reviewed."
It means he’s a shill that’s boting most of his responses with ai, and when the ai can’t answer your questions because the ai isn’t allowed to answer those questions, he has to stop eating Cheetos and drinking Sprite to actually do what those you speak of pay him to do.
Then he says NOTICE ME, because he’s gay and wants attention.
It means you said the J-word and your post was automatically removed so that a mod could make sure you weren't talking bad about they who cannot be named.
But in any case, don't waste too much energy trying to get an answer out of pandafag. He's a single topic poster who spends all day whining about seeing not sees everywhere he looks and probably didn't even vote for Trump.
Manual review means you are a single topic user hellbent on discussing your single topic. This isn't a debate. I suggest you learn to write like an adult in a MAGA forum or be shadow censored like a screaming child 🍼
Here's some links to forums where your special interest is both encouraged and a foundational belief of a greater ideology
https://communities.win/c/4ChanRetirementHomes/p/16bP7fm2Y5/3rd-position-forums/c
Manually review this, faggot.
Initiating automated review sequence 🤖
Sexual harassment detected 👠
Didn't answer the question, nice!
I take them very seriously when I'm at their clubhouse. Their rules. Their beliefs.
Mhm. Your visceral reaction and ad hominem attacks only made me want to listen to what he has to say even more now.
Ok Mr. Blowhard 🌬️
Go make it your life belief system then! 💅
Go be an American Christian National Fascist or an American White National Fascist. It doesn't matter, because it will never be part of Trump's platform, the MAGA platform, the Republican party, or even remotely right wing 😂
https://communities.win/c/4ChanRetirementHomes/p/16bP7fm2Y5/3rd-position-forums/c
This man is incredibly aware and discerning. And yet...
How many so-called educated, successful, upwardly-mobile people would dismiss him without a second thought based on his appearance, his home, his accent, etc.?
It's amazing the actual diversity (and its strength) is in the awakened population! Not the woke population.
The people who'd dismiss him on surface details, would dismiss any argument he had that disagreed with their worldview. The whole point of indoctrination isn't just to fill their head with a bunch of nonsense in order to control them; it's to make them incurious to any information contrary to that control. That's why they're programmed with a ton of triggers that are meant to shut down rational thought and create an emotional tirade so that they never question their beliefs.
Only the people on the borderline can be possibly brought back from the brink; the rest are a totally lost cause and the best you can do is marginalize them.
I agree with most of what you said, except what I quoted above. I think there are more who can be saved - many more. Even many of those who are currently fully indoctrinated. But your first paragraph describes exactly why it will be a difficult, and traumatic for them, process.
The programming can be broken, but it will take time, repetition, patience and compassion.
I don't want us to give up on even one single soul. Some will be totally lost, but I hope all discerning warriors for freedom and light will still fight for them anyway. I truly believe we'll all be shocked at how many will begin to awaken. We cannot give up on them. We just can't.
I'll concede easily that you're far more optimistic than I am, but I think that you misunderstood what I meant; possibly because of my phrasing.
Indoctrination is not a binary state: there are subtle shades along the way as one's ego is replaced with a mere puppet to something they don't truly understand. Up to a certain point, they can be brought back with varying success, and the question becomes how much effort you want to expend on an effort you'll very likely never be thanked or remunerated for; I suppose it depends on how selflessly compassionate you are, and I'll grant without question that you'd be far more willing to undertake that than me.
Still, that having been said, I think we can both agree to varying degrees of distaste that there are those who are truly lost, and for whom no amount of true reconciliation can be reached. The longer they've been indoctrinated, the more calcified the set of false beliefs, ideas, and facts is in their minds, and most importantly the more their sense of self-worth and personal prosperity is based upon the ideology, the more the person vanishes beyond the threshold that they can't be recalled from.
For example, take the person who got one of those useless activist degrees in college, who now makes their living by working for a community activism group funded by wealthy Elite interests, who acts as a sort of sheep-herder for the Black Bloc/BLM/Antifa mobs that sow domestic terror; the ones that you can see in any such event if you keep an eye out for them, the ones that typically stand in the back with a bullhorn and/or other communication devices. Depending on how exposed they act, they might already have a rap sheet for all the times they got snagged in the dragnets. Do you really see that person trying to make a radically different life for themselves? No, more than likely they'll refuse, because the alternative is probably a retail job that they'll never get because of the criminal record. Like a Made Man from the Mafia, they're in too deep to truly get out.
These people are lost causes, pure and simple, but the upside is that they're almost certainly a small percentage of the overall gestalt left as we know it. I agree that many can be brought back, because many are more than likely just going through the motions out of fear of social pressure and ostracization. When the veil is lifted and people once again feel they can speak and act freely, I truly wouldn't be surprised if >80% of what we see as the radical left vanishes overnight and says as much openly, and they become a big part of the solution of finishing off the work of returning to normalcy; some of them might take longer to recover, but they can do so organically without any intervention. The rest will probably take some work on a local level, but eventually since all of this ideology is largely a fad, social mores will fix it and people close to them can do the rest.
To pretend we can save them ALL, however, is bordering on hopelessly naive; it's a sad truth, but you can't save everyone, no matter how hard you try. The ones that remain unrepentant must be pushed to the margins so that they can't sneak back into the places of influence to begin this cycle anew; our complacency and misplaced compassion is what's allowed this to happen in the first place, and thinking that everyone can be redeemed is how we'd just be pushing this down the road for a generation. It's a hard notion, to be sure, but when you consider what's at stake, it's a necessary one.
Very well said. I can't disagree, not entirely.
Certainly there are those who are wholly evil. They are gone. They will pay the wages of their sins now or later, in this plane or the next. Hopefully both.
And there are those who, if they open up to awakening, will be filled with overwhelming remorse at what they've done to themselves or their loved ones. Parents who've jabbed their children come to mind. Therefore, they simply cannot/will not acknowledge or fight their programming because if they did, they would have to own up to their own monstrous deeds. That's a big ask.
But...
There are those out there who seem truly beyond reach who may yet be awakened. Saved. It will be a long, arduous journey. Not linear by any means. They will fight it for so many reasons. And, again, some will choose to remain programmed rather than confront what they've become or what they've done.
I believe those who have discernment have been blessed. Why can some people see through the lies and propaganda while others swallow it whole? Although sometimes it may seem more of a burden than a gift, those who are already awakened are rich in ways the sheep cannot comprehend.
With the gift comes responsibility. Can everyone be saved? No. Should we still fight for those who can be? Yes.
When peasants like this man and myself start making these kinds of connections, they damn well better take notice.
We're just about done with your bullshit, you lying, corrupt motherfuckers.
We are not peasants. We are citizens and we need to start embracing the fullness of responsibility that comes with that station.
And I am jealous of his beard too
I say the same things. Ruined all sports for me. ( That is a good thing though)
I guarantee you that she really isn't even listening. In her head, this is all funny and and dorky. Hence why she continues shoving a camera in his face. She just wants that TikTok video.
You could be living in a trailer in rural America and your woman is still a vapid moron.
Why is she slowly listing to the right....
Because she’s realizing he’s right?
Give them bread and circus!! Our ancient leaders knew it then!!
The part I think about most is how they gradually diluted the silver in their coins until they were basically fiat.
The west is living in the second wêimar repûblic right now, there are two ways forward, time will tell what way the west picks
She sounds like a condescending bitch
Another parallel
The Praetorian Guard gradually changed from servants to masters who deposed and selected emperors
The FBI, CIA, and deep state have undergone a similar metamorphosis
Anyone who still watches sportsball is a cuck.
The News Benders (1968)
"They're the full bellies and the empty bellies and some of the empty bellies carry rifles."
I didn’t know this was a thing. My g/f asked me a few days ago out if the blue if I ever thought about the Roman Empire and of course I said yes for the same reason this guy mentioned, I could certainly read more about it, but I guess there’s a meme going around that all guys think about the Roman Empire fairly often. She was testing me.
I’m a woman and I think about it often too. This dude is right, we’re living through the collapse of our civilisation.
This guy has about a 3rd grade understanding of the Roman Empire. 1/3 of the capital city's population were slaves, so no, Rome DID NOT have some progressive woke agenda.
Did you guys know Livy was writing about how it was all circling the drain, and there were another 3 centuries of wealth and glory to go after he died?
There are a ton of parallels, and I enjoy calling us Rome 2.0, but there are some unique traits still.
We do have usury/ debt issues that you could consider many people to be indentured servants. You can almost argue that 1913 was the official time we became an empire. Or 1864, where it was southern elites trying to create a caribbean slave empire vs the northern empire using the south as a quasi colony for their raw resources.
For Livy, i think theres a volume called the collapse of western civ, published i think in the 60s.
And since our stories have sucked for 10+ years, our "gladiators" all take knees, and bud light is for troons the whole "bread and circus" plan isn't really viable
We get Taylor Swift stadium Tours and Trans “fight” meanwhile they are flooding USA with foreigners to replace the population
Sir John Bagot Glubb's life cycles of nations
WTF is with this theme?
Don't ask about the theme, ask who is promoting the theme
Rome is awesome and the foundation of our society, most people admires it and think about it a lot.
Better it be that they think about this rather than the Kardashians for a while.
I think about it because they didnt go far enough in 74 AD
I'd rather hang around people like this than any "highly educated" eggheaded leftard.
I’m a woman. I’m thinking about the fall of the Roman Empire AND Vatican II. Who’s with me?
Yes. Exactly. 100%. Everyday.
Anyone who knows enough history has a terrible feeling of dread and deja vu…
Not gonna lie, chariot races would be fun to watch.
👍
So...what do we do now?
i am lady pede
i always think of Book of Revelation and how each day the scene is being set for that final act
What's with all the Roman Empire stuff in the past few days? What did I miss?